Political Roundtable Part XII

[payitforward]

I thought Indonesia was where all the "good Muslims" are:

A video has emerged of a woman being lashed in public with a cane in footage showing Indonesia's brutal Sharia law punishment.

The woman can be heard screaming in pain in front of a cheering crowd as she takes her cruel beating before collapsing. Dozens of civilians can be seen gathering around an elevated stage and film the events on their smartphones. A masked man, whose identity is kept completely hidden, plays to the crowd by wiggling the cane provocatively near the woman's back. He then draws it back and unleashes it across her shoulder blades for an unknown alleged crime.

The woman, wearing a white shirt and a salmon-coloured headscarf, winces in pain with every blow. Between each savage lashing, she reaches back with her hand to try and relieve the agony. When the man delivers the fifth blow, she collapses in a heap on the stage, to the sound of applause.

...

Clearly, we need more Indonesian immigrants as well. Sharia Law is awesome. Diversity is our strength.

Oh for sure, nate -- lets find some really nasty stuff done by Muslims & put that up. That ought to divert attention from the stinking mess your boy Trump has created.

How far back do you want to go to find cruelty by true believers, nate? Would you like to see a picture of a future Pope giving a Nazi salute? I thought so! Here you go:


Or maybe you'd rather see some more recent images. Here's one of what French Nazis (also Xtians) did to a Jewish cemetary:



Or here's something for you to put in your pipe and smoke -- it comes from your very own model country.



Don't those people look like they're having a good time, nate?

But you may prefer something a little more recent. I think the guy that did this was Xtian rather than Muslim. Am I right?



But that's different, isn't it? After all, you may agree with his assessment of the danger at the time:



Do you, nate? After all, only 168 people were killed that day, including, what? a mere 50-something children?

Do me a favor, nate, & don't tell me (or us) that you are against this kind of violence. Of course you are. But that doesn't mean anything. What would mean something would be to acknowledge that when it comes to delivering suffering to the innocent, suffering unto death, people of all religions do it. & that in your lifetime -- and that of your parents & their parents -- Christians have taken a big lead over all other religions in that activity. Tell me, tell us, that you are willing to accept that incontrovertible fact, my friend, if you please.

[nate33]

However, the statement about removing all of those things from the election would ensure Hillary winning is basically true. I like to be blunt about this and if people want to be offended then so be it, but we have a lot of stupid people in this country and they fell for the "scandals" of the e-mail server and the Clinton Foundation.

Bear in mind that the biggest "scandal" associated with the election was unquestionably the 12-year-old audio recording of a private conversation between Trump and Billy Bush that was sat upon by NBC operatives and released as an October surprise to cause maximum harm. That absolutely wrecked Trump's poll numbers. So if not for Trump being a crass buffoon as a private citizen 12 years ago coupled with a hostile, partisan media, this thing could have been a blowout. A good case can be made that the Democrat party is in much worse shape than the popular vote numbers suggest.

No, not even close. That may be been the most salatious, but the the biggest scandals of this election dealt with the unstability of our democracy. These are the ones we will still care about 10 years from now.

- We had the chief law enforcement organization of the country re-open a closed investigation 11 days before the election, and then started leaking out the one of the candidates would get indicted. This is very normal in banana republics, and really, is what it looks like the US is becoming to the rest of the world.

- We had the Russian Government hack at least one, but probably both of the major parties, and put out daily stolen American citizens emails which ended up as front page stories - daily - on most of the major outlets.

- We had the now National Security advisor in regular and ongoing contact with one of our greatest adversaries, and by recent reports, was impacting the actions of the sitting President regarding sanctions. We now have questions of whether the sitting President directed these actions.

- Fake news dominated the landscape. The ability for factual coverage to gain credibility dropped through the floor.

All of these stories talk to the instability of our democracy. These problems are enduring, unlike our braggadocious P-grabbing POTUS.

I don't disagree that those are serious problems as well. I was referring specifically to the scandals that caused immediate harm to the polling numbers for each candidate. It was all in the context of assessing the current state of the Democrat Party.

I think a good argument can be made that Trump was hurt by the Billy Bush tape far more than Clinton was hurt by the last minute antics by James Comey. A LOT of women, even conservative women, were really angry about that. Trump's poll numbers absolutely collapsed after the tapes were released. If you eliminate both the Billy Bush tapes and the James Comey stuff, I think Trump benefits more. But of course, this is all subjective. There's no way to know for sure, though I suppose some pollsters might have data on this.

[nate33]

Back before the primaries were finished i thought Trump's crazy man routine might be just an act. I thought he might just be playing a role to get elected. Over time it became clear that was not the case.

He just can't filter himself. He can't stop and think/research before going off. He isn't capable of responding in a measured, mature way. Ultimately his mouth is his biggest enemy.

It is hard to find much good in the current situation. However his victory did put politicians on notice about just how disgusted the public is with them. Ditto the press. Maybe his success will encourage other (hopefully more mature) people without political experience to throw their hats in the ring in future elections.

I'm going to judge him by his results, not his demeanor. If he can bully his way to better trade deals, better treaties, better immigration rules and a better economy, then I don't care about his demeanor.

[bealwithit]

Bear in mind that the biggest "scandal" associated with the election was unquestionably the 12-year-old audio recording of a private conversation between Trump and Billy Bush that was sat upon by NBC operatives and released as an October surprise to cause maximum harm. That absolutely wrecked Trump's poll numbers. So if not for Trump being a crass buffoon as a private citizen 12 years ago coupled with a hostile, partisan media, this thing could have been a blowout. A good case can be made that the Democrat party is in much worse shape than the popular vote numbers suggest.

No, not even close. That may be been the most salatious, but the the biggest scandals of this election dealt with the unstability of our democracy. These are the ones we will still care about 10 years from now.

- We had the chief law enforcement organization of the country re-open a closed investigation 11 days before the election, and then started leaking out the one of the candidates would get indicted. This is very normal in banana republics, and really, is what it looks like the US is becoming to the rest of the world.

- We had the Russian Government hack at least one, but probably both of the major parties, and put out daily stolen American citizens emails which ended up as front page stories - daily - on most of the major outlets.

- We had the now National Security advisor in regular and ongoing contact with one of our greatest adversaries, and by recent reports, was impacting the actions of the sitting President regarding sanctions. We now have questions of whether the sitting President directed these actions.

- Fake news dominated the landscape. The ability for factual coverage to gain credibility dropped through the floor.

All of these stories talk to the instability of our democracy. These problems are enduring, unlike our braggadocious P-grabbing POTUS.

I don't disagree that those are serious problems as well. I was referring specifically to the scandals that caused immediate harm to the polling numbers for each candidate. It was all in the context of assessing the current state of the Democrat Party.

I think a good argument can be made that Trump was hurt by the Billy Bush tape far more than Clinton was hurt by the last minute antics by James Comey. A LOT of women, even conservative women, were really angry about that. Trump's poll numbers absolutely collapsed after the tapes were released. If you eliminate both the Billy Bush tapes and the James Comey stuff, I think Trump benefits more. But of course, this is all subjective. There's no way to know for sure, though I suppose some pollsters might have data on this.

Who cares about polls now... Trump still won white women with 53%.
Which was my point. His numbers tanked for a little while after the tape... but it ended up not mattering at all.

[nate33]

Not trying to pile on you guys, but I never understood how anyone possibly thought this. It's been the guy's personality his entire life while in the public eye! Getting into spats with celebs, responding to anyone who badmouths him including random people on Twitter before he ran for Pres. He's always been a thin-skinned narcissist and in his old age it's only getting worse. It's just who he is. There was literally never any evidence for the contrary besides a few teleprompter-aided rally speeches.

I hear ya. The guy is who we thought he was...a bully, a bigot and a liar.

Read on Twitter

I mean it's just like... ugh.
Apologize if anyone doesn't like the language.

C'mon now. That was from before he was even a candidate.

[payitforward]

Bear in mind that the biggest "scandal" associated with the election was unquestionably the 12-year-old audio recording of a private conversation between Trump and Billy Bush that was sat upon by NBC operatives and released as an October surprise to cause maximum harm. That absolutely wrecked Trump's poll numbers. So if not for Trump being a crass buffoon as a private citizen 12 years ago coupled with a hostile, partisan media, this thing could have been a blowout. A good case can be made that the Democrat party is in much worse shape than the popular vote numbers suggest.

No, not even close. That may be been the most salatious, but the the biggest scandals of this election dealt with the unstability of our democracy. These are the ones we will still care about 10 years from now.

- We had the chief law enforcement organization of the country re-open a closed investigation 11 days before the election, and then started leaking out the one of the candidates would get indicted. This is very normal in banana republics, and really, is what it looks like the US is becoming to the rest of the world.

- We had the Russian Government hack at least one, but probably both of the major parties, and put out daily stolen American citizens emails which ended up as front page stories - daily - on most of the major outlets.

- We had the now National Security advisor in regular and ongoing contact with one of our greatest adversaries, and by recent reports, was impacting the actions of the sitting President regarding sanctions. We now have questions of whether the sitting President directed these actions.

- Fake news dominated the landscape. The ability for factual coverage to gain credibility dropped through the floor.

All of these stories talk to the instability of our democracy. These problems are enduring, unlike our braggadocious P-grabbing POTUS.

I don't disagree that those are serious problems as well. ...

In what sense do you think those are serious problems, nate? & how serious do you think they are?

Would you kindly expand on your analysis of these issues. Or, if analysis of all of them would require too much time, which it well might, pick 1 or 2 if you prefer & expand on them.

[bealwithit]

I hear ya. The guy is who we thought he was...a bully, a bigot and a liar.

I mean it's just like... ugh.
Apologize if anyone doesn't like the language.

C'mon now. That was from before he was even a candidate.

Dude, it's from 2014. He became a candidate less than a year after that tweet. Do you think he's a changed man in 2.5 years? You think if Hillary had tweets talking about her "haters" like that 2 years before she ran that you would have been cool with it?

Just admit you don't care that that's how our president thinks. It's fine.

[penbeast0]

Back before the primaries were finished i thought Trump's crazy man routine might be just an act. I thought he might just be playing a role to get elected. Over time it became clear that was not the case.

He just can't filter himself. He can't stop and think/research before going off. He isn't capable of responding in a measured, mature way. Ultimately his mouth is his biggest enemy.

It is hard to find much good in the current situation. However his victory did put politicians on notice about just how disgusted the public is with them. Ditto the press. Maybe his success will encourage other (hopefully more mature) people without political experience to throw their hats in the ring in future elections.

I'm going to judge him by his results, not his demeanor. If he can bully his way to better trade deals, better treaties, better immigration rules and a better economy, then I don't care about his demeanor.

I disagree Nate. IF you are the President of the USA, you represent the country both at home and abroad. He comes off as a nasty boob, it makes the USA look bad. It's like excusing Nixon and Clinton for their dishonesty and sleaze because you agree with some of the other stuff they are credited with. Yet, the office of the President and the confidence in the government of the USA was hurt by both and they should be held accountable for it.

[payitforward]

I'm curious, nate -- you were a strong Trump supporter throughout the election season, I believe. Would you say that the first three weeks of his Presidency have rendered you a bigger supporter of the man? Made you less of a supporter? Made you consider ending your support for him? Or had no effect on your level of support for Trump?

[payitforward]

Back before the primaries were finished i thought Trump's crazy man routine might be just an act. I thought he might just be playing a role to get elected. Over time it became clear that was not the case.

He just can't filter himself. He can't stop and think/research before going off. He isn't capable of responding in a measured, mature way. Ultimately his mouth is his biggest enemy.

It is hard to find much good in the current situation. However his victory did put politicians on notice about just how disgusted the public is with them. Ditto the press. Maybe his success will encourage other (hopefully more mature) people without political experience to throw their hats in the ring in future elections.

I'm going to judge him by his results, not his demeanor. If he can bully his way to better trade deals, better treaties, better immigration rules and a better economy, then I don't care about his demeanor.

I disagree Nate. IF you are the President of the USA, you represent the country both at home and abroad. He comes off as a nasty boob, it makes the USA look bad. It's like excusing Nixon and Clinton for their dishonesty and sleaze because you agree with some of the other stuff they are credited with. Yet, the office of the President and the confidence in the government of the USA was hurt by both and they should be held accountable for it.

What about the rule of law, nate? Is it ok for him to bully his way to preferred results at the expense of the rule of law?

[nate33]

I thought Indonesia was where all the "good Muslims" are:

A video has emerged of a woman being lashed in public with a cane in footage showing Indonesia's brutal Sharia law punishment.

The woman can be heard screaming in pain in front of a cheering crowd as she takes her cruel beating before collapsing. Dozens of civilians can be seen gathering around an elevated stage and film the events on their smartphones. A masked man, whose identity is kept completely hidden, plays to the crowd by wiggling the cane provocatively near the woman's back. He then draws it back and unleashes it across her shoulder blades for an unknown alleged crime.

The woman, wearing a white shirt and a salmon-coloured headscarf, winces in pain with every blow. Between each savage lashing, she reaches back with her hand to try and relieve the agony. When the man delivers the fifth blow, she collapses in a heap on the stage, to the sound of applause.

...

Clearly, we need more Indonesian immigrants as well. Sharia Law is awesome. Diversity is our strength.

Oh for sure, nate -- lets find some really nasty stuff done by Muslims & put that up. That ought to divert attention from the stinking mess your boy Trump has created.

How far back do you want to go to find cruelty by true believers, nate? Would you like to see a picture of a future Pope giving a Nazi salute? I thought so! Here you go:


Or maybe you'd rather see some more recent images. Here's one of what French Nazis (also Xtians) did to a Jewish cemetary:



Or here's something for you to put in your pipe and smoke -- it comes from your very own model country.



Don't those people look like they're having a good time, nate?

But you may prefer something a little more recent. I think the guy that did this was Xtian rather than Muslim. Am I right?



But that's different, isn't it? After all, you may agree with his assessment of the danger at the time:



Do you, nate? After all, only 168 people were killed that day, including, what? a mere 50-something children?

Do me a favor, nate, & don't tell me (or us) that you are against this kind of violence. Of course you are. But that doesn't mean anything. What would mean something would be to acknowledge that when it comes to delivering suffering to the innocent, suffering unto death, people of all religions do it. & that in your lifetime -- and that of your parents & their parents -- Christians have taken a big lead over all other religions in that activity. Tell me, tell us, that you are willing to accept that incontrovertible fact, my friend, if you please.

Spare me. Trying to pin Nazism on Christianity is absurd. Hitler was an atheist. I note that you didn't remark on the 30 million killed by Stalin, who was inspired by the Jewish Trotskyites. If you're going to make tenuous connections, I can too.

And lynching took place 100 years ago (and whites were lynched too). Lynch mobs were more common in a time and place with less developed law enforcement. I imagine, 100 years ago, I'd be a little less alarmed by Sharia Law.

And again, you have to go back over 20 years to find a white-perpetrated terrorist attack on the same scale as what Muslims do hundreds of times per year across the globe. Your attempt at establishing moral equivalency between the Western world and the Muslim world is a failure.

[nate33]

I mean it's just like... ugh.
Apologize if anyone doesn't like the language.

C'mon now. That was from before he was even a candidate.

Dude, it's from 2014. He became a candidate less than a year after that tweet. Do you think he's a changed man in 2.5 years? You think if Hillary had tweets talking about her "haters" like that 2 years before she ran that you would have been cool with it?

Just admit you don't care that that's how our president thinks. It's fine.

No. I think lots of politicians would act this way if they weren't politicians. At the time, Trump was merely a man who had a job to stay prominent in the news.

[nate33]

Back before the primaries were finished i thought Trump's crazy man routine might be just an act. I thought he might just be playing a role to get elected. Over time it became clear that was not the case.

He just can't filter himself. He can't stop and think/research before going off. He isn't capable of responding in a measured, mature way. Ultimately his mouth is his biggest enemy.

It is hard to find much good in the current situation. However his victory did put politicians on notice about just how disgusted the public is with them. Ditto the press. Maybe his success will encourage other (hopefully more mature) people without political experience to throw their hats in the ring in future elections.

I'm going to judge him by his results, not his demeanor. If he can bully his way to better trade deals, better treaties, better immigration rules and a better economy, then I don't care about his demeanor.

I disagree Nate. IF you are the President of the USA, you represent the country both at home and abroad. He comes off as a nasty boob, it makes the USA look bad. It's like excusing Nixon and Clinton for their dishonesty and sleaze because you agree with some of the other stuff they are credited with. Yet, the office of the President and the confidence in the government of the USA was hurt by both and they should be held accountable for it.

This is a fair point, penbeast0. I agree that sustained nastiness to the rest of the world would be a bad thing. But I don't see Trump as the President for the next 30 years. I see him as a corrective President suitable for the necessary tasks ahead of us in the short term. Future presidents can blame Trump the individual for his bullying tactics, while privately appreciating Trump's accomplishments in putting America in a better position on the world stage.

[tontoz]

Back before the primaries were finished i thought Trump's crazy man routine might be just an act. I thought he might just be playing a role to get elected. Over time it became clear that was not the case.

He just can't filter himself. He can't stop and think/research before going off. He isn't capable of responding in a measured, mature way. Ultimately his mouth is his biggest enemy.

It is hard to find much good in the current situation. However his victory did put politicians on notice about just how disgusted the public is with them. Ditto the press. Maybe his success will encourage other (hopefully more mature) people without political experience to throw their hats in the ring in future elections.

I'm going to judge him by his results, not his demeanor. If he can bully his way to better trade deals, better treaties, better immigration rules and a better economy, then I don't care about his demeanor.

In order to get results he has to work with other people and other countries. Going out on a limb here but i think his demeanor might make it hard for him to get things done, assuming he doesn't dig himself into a hole he can't get out of first.

I feel like i am watching a slow motion car accident.

[nate33]

I'm curious, nate -- you were a strong Trump supporter throughout the election season, I believe. Would you say that the first three weeks of his Presidency have rendered you a bigger supporter of the man? Made you less of a supporter? Made you consider ending your support for him? Or had no effect on your level of support for Trump?

I'm just as strong of a supporter of him now as I was on November 8th. I'm heartened that he still has zero respect for the press and he correctly perceives them as his enemy, and not as a fair arbiter. I'm very happy with his preliminary moves on the Wall, immigration enforcement, law enforcement, and investigation of voter fraud.

I willingly cede that there have been some administrative mistakes so far, particularly with the amount of leaks and the poor way in which his legal team fought the Travel Ban case; but I expected it because he has so few allies among the Democrats and Establishment Republicans so the entrenched bureaucracy is fighting him tooth and nail. It's going to take him time to purge the saboteurs and convince the honest civil servants to work with him. It would also help if he had his cabinet confirmed.

[dckingsfan]

I like to be blunt about this and if people want to be offended then so be it, but we have a lot of stupid people in this country and they fell for the "scandals" of the e-mail server and the Clinton Foundation.... Their message was basically, let's keep doing more of the same but with some tweaks and... ugh... getting back to recapping the election which has already been recapped an infinite amount of times. You get the idea. I do agree the messaging was a problem, especially when your candidate's plain personality makes it difficult for her to do it herself.

Yep she just didn't have a solid message. She got down in the wonky details and didn't inspire voters to come out.

Obama - hope & change
Clinton - It's the economy stupid

And all that would be fine. But... the house went R (along with the popular vote), the senate went R, the governorships have gone R.

So, yes there is a problem with the messaging... it isn't resonating right now and its party wide and very deep. It is going to be interesting to watch which way the ship turns.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/upshot/one-third-dont-know-obamacare-and-affordable-care-act-are-the-same.html

In the survey, 35 percent of respondents said either they thought Obamacare and the Affordable Care Act were different policies (17 percent) or didn’t know if they were the same or different (18 percent). This confusion was more pronounced among people 18 to 29 and those who earn less than $50,000 — two groups that could be significantly affected by repeal. So like I said, stupidity.

But those used to be the Ds base. The messaging isn't reaching them or they just don't buy into it...

[sfam]

Bear in mind that the biggest "scandal" associated with the election was unquestionably the 12-year-old audio recording of a private conversation between Trump and Billy Bush that was sat upon by NBC operatives and released as an October surprise to cause maximum harm. That absolutely wrecked Trump's poll numbers. So if not for Trump being a crass buffoon as a private citizen 12 years ago coupled with a hostile, partisan media, this thing could have been a blowout. A good case can be made that the Democrat party is in much worse shape than the popular vote numbers suggest.

No, not even close. That may be been the most salatious, but the the biggest scandals of this election dealt with the unstability of our democracy. These are the ones we will still care about 10 years from now.

- We had the chief law enforcement organization of the country re-open a closed investigation 11 days before the election, and then started leaking out the one of the candidates would get indicted. This is very normal in banana republics, and really, is what it looks like the US is becoming to the rest of the world.

- We had the Russian Government hack at least one, but probably both of the major parties, and put out daily stolen American citizens emails which ended up as front page stories - daily - on most of the major outlets.

- We had the now National Security advisor in regular and ongoing contact with one of our greatest adversaries, and by recent reports, was impacting the actions of the sitting President regarding sanctions. We now have questions of whether the sitting President directed these actions.

- Fake news dominated the landscape. The ability for factual coverage to gain credibility dropped through the floor.

All of these stories talk to the instability of our democracy. These problems are enduring, unlike our braggadocious P-grabbing POTUS.

I don't disagree that those are serious problems as well. I was referring specifically to the scandals that caused immediate harm to the polling numbers for each candidate. It was all in the context of assessing the current state of the Democrat Party.

I think a good argument can be made that Trump was hurt by the Billy Bush tape far more than Clinton was hurt by the last minute antics by James Comey. A LOT of women, even conservative women, were really angry about that. Trump's poll numbers absolutely collapsed after the tapes were released. If you eliminate both the Billy Bush tapes and the James Comey stuff, I think Trump benefits more. But of course, this is all subjective. There's no way to know for sure, though I suppose some pollsters might have data on this.

That would be a poor argument. Comey's letter happened 11 days before the election. It not only depressed Clinton's numbers, it energized Trump. A 10 point lead evaporated. Combine this with leaks of indictments and the US's democracy, previously the gold standard, is now ridiculed across the world.

Bottom line, the Economist Intelligence Unit did not downgrade the US democracy rating to "flawed" in their democracy index due to tapes of p-grabbing.

[sfam]

I thought Indonesia was where all the "good Muslims" are:

A video has emerged of a woman being lashed in public with a cane in footage showing Indonesia's brutal Sharia law punishment.

The woman can be heard screaming in pain in front of a cheering crowd as she takes her cruel beating before collapsing. Dozens of civilians can be seen gathering around an elevated stage and film the events on their smartphones. A masked man, whose identity is kept completely hidden, plays to the crowd by wiggling the cane provocatively near the woman's back. He then draws it back and unleashes it across her shoulder blades for an unknown alleged crime.

The woman, wearing a white shirt and a salmon-coloured headscarf, winces in pain with every blow. Between each savage lashing, she reaches back with her hand to try and relieve the agony. When the man delivers the fifth blow, she collapses in a heap on the stage, to the sound of applause.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4210986/Woman-lashed-brutal-Sharia-law-s-traditional-punishment.html?ito=embedded

Watch on YouTube

Here's one with a woman getting 26 lashes:

Watch on YouTube

Clearly, we need more Indonesian immigrants as well. Sharia Law is awesome. Diversity is our strength.

Not that it will matter, but a few facts. There are more than 700 languages spoken in Indonesia. This is NOT a homogenious society. Only one province, Aceh, on the northern side of the Island of Java has Sharia law. The rest of Indonesia does not. I've been to Jakarta and Bali - nothing in either place resembles anything like that. Just the opposite in fact.

But again, I'm pretty sure this will fall on deaf ears. They're all the same, right?

[sfam]

I'm curious, nate -- you were a strong Trump supporter throughout the election season, I believe. Would you say that the first three weeks of his Presidency have rendered you a bigger supporter of the man? Made you less of a supporter? Made you consider ending your support for him? Or had no effect on your level of support for Trump?

I'm just as strong of a supporter of him now as I was on November 8th. I'm heartened that he still has zero respect for the press and he correctly perceives them as his enemy, and not as a fair arbiter. I'm very happy with his preliminary moves on the Wall, immigration enforcement, law enforcement, and investigation of voter fraud.

I willingly cede that there have been some administrative mistakes so far, particularly with the amount of leaks and the poor way in which his legal team fought the Travel Ban case; but I expected it because he has so few allies among the Democrats and Establishment Republicans so the entrenched bureaucracy is fighting him tooth and nail. It's going to take him time to purge the saboteurs and convince the honest civil servants to work with him. It would also help if he had his cabinet confirmed.

The sad part regarding civil servants is the vast vast majority are honest and non-partisan in their actual duties, regardless who they vote for. This is like well over 90-95%. Unless they see their orders as unlawful, they will implement them.

Most Presidents take a while to figure this out. As an example from the last administration, Obama's Homeland Security choice (Napolitano) was nightmarish in this way - she didn't trust anyone and spent her first few years trying to purge even line civilians from her sphere, which really hurt her performance.

By all accounts at least for the Agencies I'm connected with Trump's teams interactions are far far worse. They avidly treat most civilians as democratic plants strategically placed to destroy their agenda. Most Presidents eventually figure this out, which greatly helps in implementing their initiatives. As Trump has brought virtually nobody from Washington, I doubt he ever figures this out.

Its great for visuals to be at war with everyone in Washington, but the end result will be nothing accomplished.

[nate33]

Back before the primaries were finished i thought Trump's crazy man routine might be just an act. I thought he might just be playing a role to get elected. Over time it became clear that was not the case.

He just can't filter himself. He can't stop and think/research before going off. He isn't capable of responding in a measured, mature way. Ultimately his mouth is his biggest enemy.

It is hard to find much good in the current situation. However his victory did put politicians on notice about just how disgusted the public is with them. Ditto the press. Maybe his success will encourage other (hopefully more mature) people without political experience to throw their hats in the ring in future elections.

I'm going to judge him by his results, not his demeanor. If he can bully his way to better trade deals, better treaties, better immigration rules and a better economy, then I don't care about his demeanor.

In order to get results he has to work with other people and other countries. Going out on a limb here but i think his demeanor might make it hard for him to get things done, assuming he doesn't dig himself into a hole he can't get out of first.

I feel like i am watching a slow motion car accident.

Fair enough. I think this is a reasonable perspective.