Deadline Chatter: Derrick Rose on his way out ? Teams interested

kabstah · Post #61 » by **kabstah** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:10 pm

Rose is only useful as a tank commander or an expiring contract. He has no place, now or ever, on a team that's actually trying to win games.

Scalabrine · Post #62 » by **Scalabrine** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:12 pm

If they called half the fouls on Rose that actually happen then he would be averaging 20+ points per game right now. He gets hammered so often and the refs swallow their whistles. Watching Westbrook get the call on the slightest of contact (THAT HE CREATES) as he flails and screams while Rose gets smacked in the face or bodied to the ground and gets nothing the other night was painful...and that happens pretty much every game.

I hate complaining about the officiating, I really do, but the calls that Rose doesn't get while other guys are virtually untouchable is really tough to watch. Does he need to flop better? Does he need to try to create even more contact? The refs are supposedly the best in the world, why can't they call an obvious foul without having the guy flop all over the place?

As for Rose trades, its definitely hard to find a suitor for me. As a Knick fan, I really don't want to take back any long-term salary, but if he were traded it's hard to figure out a scenario where that wouldn't be the case. I'll throw out some stuff that works under the cba and is maybe close:

Deng and Russell for Rose

Reggie Jackson and Boban for Rose

Jeff Green and Mario Hezonja for Rose

Rubio, Hill and Bjeclica for Rose

Faried, Barton, and Miller for Rose

Gay, Collison, Mclemore for Rose

Thats all I got really...

mhi · Post #63 » by **mhi** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:15 pm

He's an expiring contract so it would be a middling talent that's signed long term for his expiring. Essentially a lose-lose scenario if just two parties are involved.

Perishable517 · Post #64 » by **Perishable517** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:29 pm

MotownMadness wrote:What would we want him for?

An expiring contract if the Pistons are trying to get out of something?

Rose, to me, is trash.

SH0KASE · Post #65 » by **SH0KASE** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:30 pm

ChiCityHoops34 wrote:
SH0KASE wrote:Bulls fans warned us but I didn't listen smh. This guy is straight up no defense playing ball hug. As soon as he gets the ball you can forget about him looking to create a play for someone. Please get him off my team.

It was ncie seeing him first 10 games after watching Calderon but it got old fast.

The best is watching national broadcast games of the Knicks and every single time the commentator will explain how "theres the old Derrick he's getting his explosiveness back" after one solid play. There hasn't been any point since the MCL where he looked like MVP Rose. Whenever someone says otherwise they don't remember how great he actually was.

He is still explosive but the IQ and defense is very poor.

SH0KASE · Post #66 » by **SH0KASE** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:41 pm

Scalabrine wrote:If they called half the fouls on Rose that actually happen then he would be averaging 20+ points per game right now. He gets hammered so often and the refs swallow their whistles. Watching Westbrook get the call on the slightest of contact (THAT HE CREATES) as he flails and screams while Rose gets smacked in the face or bodied to the ground and gets nothing the other night was painful...and that happens pretty much every game.

I hate complaining about the officiating, I really do, but the calls that Rose doesn't get while other guys are virtually untouchable is really tough to watch. Does he need to flop better? Does he need to try to create even more contact? The refs are supposedly the best in the world, why can't they call an obvious foul without having the guy flop all over the place?

As for Rose trades, its definitely hard to find a suitor for me. As a Knick fan, I really don't want to take back any long-term salary, but if he were traded it's hard to figure out a scenario where that wouldn't be the case. I'll throw out some stuff that works under the cba and is maybe close:

Deng and Russell for Rose

Reggie Jackson and Boban for Rose

Jeff Green and Mario Hezonja for Rose

Rubio, Hill and Bjeclica for Rose

Faried, Barton, and Miller for Rose

Gay, Collison, Mclemore for Rose

Thats all I got really...

I think it is because he plays for the knicks. Melo also never gets any calls. I'm not starting any conspiracy theories because I believe it is a fact that refs don't like the knicks. At home we get reffed like an away team and away games are just borderline embarrassing to watch the refs.

Synciere · Post #67 » by **Synciere** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:45 pm

Rubio is a non starter for me. Not sure how the Knicks org feels though. All we do is lose cap space for a marginal player. Would have to get Lance Thomas off the books and get back a pick for taking salary. Reggie Jackson hasn't been great and is coming back from injury.

DaKnicksAreBack · Post #68 » by **DaKnicksAreBack** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:48 pm

I'll take reggie in hopes of him bouncing back next season

Tukkerwolf · Post #69 » by **Tukkerwolf** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:58 pm

Scalabrine wrote:If they called half the fouls on Rose that actually happen then he would be averaging 20+ points per game right now. He gets hammered so often and the refs swallow their whistles. Watching Westbrook get the call on the slightest of contact (THAT HE CREATES) as he flails and screams while Rose gets smacked in the face or bodied to the ground and gets nothing the other night was painful...and that happens pretty much every game.

I hate complaining about the officiating, I really do, but the calls that Rose doesn't get while other guys are virtually untouchable is really tough to watch. Does he need to flop better? Does he need to try to create even more contact? The refs are supposedly the best in the world, why can't they call an obvious foul without having the guy flop all over the place?

As for Rose trades, its definitely hard to find a suitor for me. As a Knick fan, I really don't want to take back any long-term salary, but if he were traded it's hard to figure out a scenario where that wouldn't be the case. I'll throw out some stuff that works under the cba and is maybe close:

Deng and Russell for Rose

Reggie Jackson and Boban for Rose

Jeff Green and Mario Hezonja for Rose

Rubio, Hill and Bjeclica for Rose

Faried, Barton, and Miller for Rose

Gay, Collison, Mclemore for Rose

Thats all I got really...

This not even close at all. Adding KP to Rose is in most cases closer than the suggestions above. You cannot honestly think the Kings gut half of their core for 30 games of Rose? Or the Lakers and Magic their top prospects?

Scalabrine · Post #70 » by **Scalabrine** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:30 pm

Tukkerwolf wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:If they called half the fouls on Rose that actually happen then he would be averaging 20+ points per game right now. He gets hammered so often and the refs swallow their whistles. Watching Westbrook get the call on the slightest of contact (THAT HE CREATES) as he flails and screams while Rose gets smacked in the face or bodied to the ground and gets nothing the other night was painful...and that happens pretty much every game.

I hate complaining about the officiating, I really do, but the calls that Rose doesn't get while other guys are virtually untouchable is really tough to watch. Does he need to flop better? Does he need to try to create even more contact? The refs are supposedly the best in the world, why can't they call an obvious foul without having the guy flop all over the place?

As for Rose trades, its definitely hard to find a suitor for me. As a Knick fan, I really don't want to take back any long-term salary, but if he were traded it's hard to figure out a scenario where that wouldn't be the case. I'll throw out some stuff that works under the cba and is maybe close:

Deng and Russell for Rose

Reggie Jackson and Boban for Rose

Jeff Green and Mario Hezonja for Rose

Rubio, Hill and Bjeclica for Rose

Faried, Barton, and Miller for Rose

Gay, Collison, Mclemore for Rose

Thats all I got really...

This not even close at all. Adding KP to Rose is in most cases closer than the suggestions above. You cannot honestly think the Kings gut half of their core for 30 games of Rose? Or the Lakers and Magic their top prospects?

Alright I can spin it my way you spin it yours.

First off, any team getting him would get his bird rights, thus being able to go over the cap to resign him. It's not just 30 games of Rose. Like him or not, he is one of the few starting caliber point guards in this free agent crop so he definitely has some value to teams looking for a vet point guard.

For LA: Deng is probably the worst contract in the league. 18 million a year for 3 more years after this one. Russell has not shown enough to them and getting out of Deng's contract is maybe more valuable. I really doubt this would happen though, maybe Rose and Thomas for Deng and Clarkson makes more sense. I personally dislike both deals for the Knicks.

For the Pistons; they move on from Jacksons deal and get a 30 game sample to see if Rose fits with them better, if not, they still get out of Jacksons deal and try to find someone else. Knicks get a slightly below average starting point guard locked up to a somewhat reasonable salary.

For Magic; Hezonja has been a total bust so he is definitely not a top prospect. Sixers fans are hoping they can get a meer first round pick for Okafor after drafting him at 3 just last year. How much value do you think Hezonja has?

For the Wolves; Rose reunites with Thibs and the Knicks get a below average starting point guard thats locked up for a few more years while they develop a younger one that they draft.

Nuggets; they have been trying to move on from Faried for a while and Mudiay just hasn't made enough of an impact. They are in a playoff race right now and they could use another scorer and a point guard so Rose would definitely fit while Mudiay could continue to develop a little more. Im a Will Barton fan so I would hope the Knicks would be able to get him in the package but it would more then likely be a guy like Jameer Nelson instead. Faried doesn't exactly fit with what the Knicks are doing though, so maybe we would need more.

For the Kings; Gutting half their core? Rudy Gay was going to opt out after this year until he tore his achilles. Collison is a UFA. They have been trying to find a taker for Mclemore, who has been in and out of the rotation, since last year. None of those guys are looked at as core players. Please argue that.

None of these are dead on even trades, or likely scenarios, I'm just throwing stuff out there that works with the CBA and is somewhat fair. The Nuggets, Kings, and Wolves are all in the playoff hunt, and might want another guy that can add to their team, while also being a piece they could resign in the future that they wouldn't have the pure capspace to do otherwise.

sule · Post #71 » by **sule** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:42 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:Was trying to see if there was something that could be done with the Raptors. Trading Joseph, Sullinger, filler for Rose and a 2nd rounder.

Rose gives us a better backup PG for the playoffs, expires so we can resign people.

NY gets a good young PG in Joseph.

Salaries are tough though.

I'd rather have Joseph/Wright than Rose. Or move Joseph in a separate deal.

Yikes. Advanced stats kill Derrick Rose...maybe you're right.

Only way i'd like to see the Raps get involved, would be to facilitate a three-way where Rose goes anywhere but Toronto.

Maybe New Orleans takes him? See how he pairs with Davis for half a season....

Gilles · Post #72 » by **Gilles** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:57 pm

Scalabrine wrote:
Tukkerwolf wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:If they called half the fouls on Rose that actually happen then he would be averaging 20+ points per game right now. He gets hammered so often and the refs swallow their whistles. Watching Westbrook get the call on the slightest of contact (THAT HE CREATES) as he flails and screams while Rose gets smacked in the face or bodied to the ground and gets nothing the other night was painful...and that happens pretty much every game.

I hate complaining about the officiating, I really do, but the calls that Rose doesn't get while other guys are virtually untouchable is really tough to watch. Does he need to flop better? Does he need to try to create even more contact? The refs are supposedly the best in the world, why can't they call an obvious foul without having the guy flop all over the place?

As for Rose trades, its definitely hard to find a suitor for me. As a Knick fan, I really don't want to take back any long-term salary, but if he were traded it's hard to figure out a scenario where that wouldn't be the case. I'll throw out some stuff that works under the cba and is maybe close:

Deng and Russell for Rose

Reggie Jackson and Boban for Rose

Jeff Green and Mario Hezonja for Rose

Rubio, Hill and Bjeclica for Rose

Faried, Barton, and Miller for Rose

Gay, Collison, Mclemore for Rose

Thats all I got really...

This not even close at all. Adding KP to Rose is in most cases closer than the suggestions above. You cannot honestly think the Kings gut half of their core for 30 games of Rose? Or the Lakers and Magic their top prospects?

Alright I can spin it my way you spin it yours.

First off, any team getting him would get his bird rights, thus being able to go over the cap to resign him. It's not just 30 games of Rose. Like him or not, he is one of the few starting caliber point guards in this free agent crop so he definitely has some value to teams looking for a vet point guard.

For LA: Deng is probably the worst contract in the league. 18 million a year for 3 more years after this one. Russell has not shown enough to them and getting out of Deng's contract is maybe more valuable. I really doubt this would happen though, maybe Rose and Thomas for Deng and Clarkson makes more sense. I personally dislike both deals for the Knicks.

For the Pistons; they move on from Jacksons deal and get a 30 game sample to see if Rose fits with them better, if not, they still get out of Jacksons deal and try to find someone else. Knicks get a slightly below average starting point guard locked up to a somewhat reasonable salary.

For Magic; Hezonja has been a total bust so he is definitely not a top prospect. Sixers fans are hoping they can get a meer first round pick for Okafor after drafting him at 3 just last year. How much value do you think Hezonja has?

For the Wolves; Rose reunites with Thibs and the Knicks get a below average starting point guard thats locked up for a few more years while they develop a younger one that they draft.

Nuggets; they have been trying to move on from Faried for a while and Mudiay just hasn't made enough of an impact. They are in a playoff race right now and they could use another scorer and a point guard so Rose would definitely fit while Mudiay could continue to develop a little more. Im a Will Barton fan so I would hope the Knicks would be able to get him in the package but it would more then likely be a guy like Jameer Nelson instead. Faried doesn't exactly fit with what the Knicks are doing though, so maybe we would need more.

For the Kings; Gutting half their core? Rudy Gay was going to opt out after this year until he tore his achilles. Collison is a UFA. They have been trying to find a taker for Mclemore, who has been in and out of the rotation, since last year. None of those guys are looked at as core players. Please argue that.

None of these are dead on even trades, or likely scenarios, I'm just throwing stuff out there that works with the CBA and is somewhat fair. The Nuggets, Kings, and Wolves are all in the playoff hunt, and might want another guy that can add to their team, while also being a piece they could resign in the future that they wouldn't have the pure capspace to do otherwise.

lol, Collison is better PG for Sacramento Boogies by far, so trading for Rose, using Collison, and "playoff hunt" are mutually exclusive. Who would want to have Rose as their starting PG (not in tank commander role) next year anyway?

HotelVitale · Post #73 » by **HotelVitale** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:09 pm

TheDavinciCHODE wrote: As for Rose as a player, I think what this year has demonstrated is that he does one thing very well and struggles in other facets of the game. He gets into the lane and puts pressure on the defense, capable of creating a shot against even very tough defenses. With more usage, he'd easily be a 20ppg scorer. He just can't play D, rebound, or distribute the ball well..

This is your blindspot and why you're likely wasting your breath: even at his 'strength' Rose is a negative--since he's returned from injury he's averaged like 48% TS, and this year he's at 51%. That's really bad for a volume shooter, and it's by far the best he's had in years (and while playing alongside other offensive threats and shooters). I know it sometimes looks like he's a good scorer, but the numbers don't lie--he just doesn't help a team with any aspect of the game, even if he has some physical abilities that should in theory be useful for some teams.

Ambrose · Post #74 » by **Ambrose** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:36 pm

Scalabrine wrote:
Tukkerwolf wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:If they called half the fouls on Rose that actually happen then he would be averaging 20+ points per game right now. He gets hammered so often and the refs swallow their whistles. Watching Westbrook get the call on the slightest of contact (THAT HE CREATES) as he flails and screams while Rose gets smacked in the face or bodied to the ground and gets nothing the other night was painful...and that happens pretty much every game.

I hate complaining about the officiating, I really do, but the calls that Rose doesn't get while other guys are virtually untouchable is really tough to watch. Does he need to flop better? Does he need to try to create even more contact? The refs are supposedly the best in the world, why can't they call an obvious foul without having the guy flop all over the place?

As for Rose trades, its definitely hard to find a suitor for me. As a Knick fan, I really don't want to take back any long-term salary, but if he were traded it's hard to figure out a scenario where that wouldn't be the case. I'll throw out some stuff that works under the cba and is maybe close:

Deng and Russell for Rose

Reggie Jackson and Boban for Rose

Jeff Green and Mario Hezonja for Rose

Rubio, Hill and Bjeclica for Rose

Faried, Barton, and Miller for Rose

Gay, Collison, Mclemore for Rose

Thats all I got really...

This not even close at all. Adding KP to Rose is in most cases closer than the suggestions above. You cannot honestly think the Kings gut half of their core for 30 games of Rose? Or the Lakers and Magic their top prospects?

Alright I can spin it my way you spin it yours.

First off, any team getting him would get his bird rights, thus being able to go over the cap to resign him. It's not just 30 games of Rose. Like him or not, he is one of the few starting caliber point guards in this free agent crop so he definitely has some value to teams looking for a vet point guard.

For LA: Deng is probably the worst contract in the league. 18 million a year for 3 more years after this one. Russell has not shown enough to them and getting out of Deng's contract is maybe more valuable. I really doubt this would happen though, maybe Rose and Thomas for Deng and Clarkson makes more sense. I personally dislike both deals for the Knicks.

For the Pistons; they move on from Jacksons deal and get a 30 game sample to see if Rose fits with them better, if not, they still get out of Jacksons deal and try to find someone else. Knicks get a slightly below average starting point guard locked up to a somewhat reasonable salary.

For Magic; Hezonja has been a total bust so he is definitely not a top prospect. Sixers fans are hoping they can get a meer first round pick for Okafor after drafting him at 3 just last year. How much value do you think Hezonja has?

For the Wolves; Rose reunites with Thibs and the Knicks get a below average starting point guard thats locked up for a few more years while they develop a younger one that they draft.

Nuggets; they have been trying to move on from Faried for a while and Mudiay just hasn't made enough of an impact. They are in a playoff race right now and they could use another scorer and a point guard so Rose would definitely fit while Mudiay could continue to develop a little more. Im a Will Barton fan so I would hope the Knicks would be able to get him in the package but it would more then likely be a guy like Jameer Nelson instead. Faried doesn't exactly fit with what the Knicks are doing though, so maybe we would need more.

For the Kings; Gutting half their core? Rudy Gay was going to opt out after this year until he tore his achilles. Collison is a UFA. They have been trying to find a taker for Mclemore, who has been in and out of the rotation, since last year. None of those guys are looked at as core players. Please argue that.

None of these are dead on even trades, or likely scenarios, I'm just throwing stuff out there that works with the CBA and is somewhat fair. The Nuggets, Kings, and Wolves are all in the playoff hunt, and might want another guy that can add to their team, while also being a piece they could resign in the future that they wouldn't have the pure capspace to do otherwise.

No, these are awful deals. Every deal you listed would be a huge win for the Knicks and awful for the other team. Rose has no value, certainly not enough for Russell or Rubio straight up, let alone more pieces.

giberish · Post #75 » by **giberish** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:01 am

Run PDX wrote:Allen Crabbe, Meyers Leonard, Cleveland's 2017 1st, Portland's 2018 1st, and the use of Paul Allen's yacht for two weeks for Derrick Rose's expiring contract...

Go bigger. Crabbe/Leonard/Turner for Rose/Noah/Holiday (or Kuzminkas). Portland turns all of their mistakes from last summer into just Noah.

clippertown · Post #76 » by **clippertown** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:35 am

I wonder what Rose would look like on the Clippers alongside CP3? If we could give up Crawford and Rivers for Rose, we would improve from a talent level. CP3 does not mind playing SG on occasion and would have Rose, Redick and Felton to round out the guard position. We would lose more size and defense but Rose would contribute to scoring and help speed up the game when necessary. Its guys like Rose who can get hot and become unstoppable in certain games that help win championships.

We would have to get another backup SG but the more I think about it, the more I like it.

OrangeBlueSkies · Post #77 » by **OrangeBlueSkies** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:36 am

MotownMadness wrote:
RaptorsLife wrote:Reggie Jackson for rose makes sense

Why?

Yeah why? He's insanely overpaid and he is playing terrible basketball. From our end, the KNICKS end, we want to clear that cap space off the books this summer.

OrangeBlueSkies · Post #78 » by **OrangeBlueSkies** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:38 am

tcheco wrote:No one will give the Knicks more than a second rounder and expiring contracts, unless the team is sendin their bad contracts. Them I can see a lottery protected first going the knicks way

Oh, and Wolves would(should) never trade rubio for rose. We'll need Rubio next year since Dunn didn't show up yet.

Can see Afflalo a second rounder for Rose happening

Afflalo back to the Knicks.... yeah not happening we'll hold on to DRose.

MotownMadness · Post #79 » by **MotownMadness** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:39 am

OrangeBlueSkies wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
RaptorsLife wrote:Reggie Jackson for rose makes sense

Why?

Yeah why? He's insanely overpaid and he is playing terrible basketball. From our end, the KNICKS end, we want to clear that cap space off the books this summer.

Don't care, want no part of Rose. Pistons can find another way to unload Jackson without me having to stare at Rose for the rest of the year.

OrangeBlueSkies · Post #80 » by **OrangeBlueSkies** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:42 am

MotownMadness wrote:
OrangeBlueSkies wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:Why?

Yeah why? He's insanely overpaid and he is playing terrible basketball. From our end, the KNICKS end, we want to clear that cap space off the books this summer.

Don't care, want no part of Rose. Pistons can find another way to unload Jackson without me having to stare at Rose for the rest of the year.

Talking to OP who said Reggie for Rose makes sense.