Jonathon Isaac

[No-Man]

Ibaka

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I feel you here, not similar physically and Serge is a better athlete, but that's the role I foresee as well
He might be a bit better with the ball, in terms of passing or putting it on the floor than Ibaka, but probably not much and not meaningful.

[The-Power]

Isaac doesn't have those AD shoulders he's built more like Anthony Randolph.

Or like, you know, Kevin Durant?

[jrob23]

While he's been talked about in other threads, I'm surprised there hasn't been a thread on Isaac yet considering all the discussion and love for Ingram last year. These two guys have been talked about quite a bit because of their similar builds coming from 2 ACC schools. Isaac looks to be an inch or so taller with a little bit more weight on him while Ingram has the longer arms.

Isaac seems to established himself as a top 6-7 pick in the draft. He's been the best player on an otherwise mediocre Florida State team that's now ranked in the polls, despite being touted as raw (by nbadraft) prior to the season. He's putting up solid percentages across the board (53/37/80), has shown good coordination/fluidity with the ball in his hands, and above average rebounding skills for his position, though he has been limited in minutes.

Doesn't seem like he'll be a guy that can contribute a lot immediately, but there's a lot of potential there. How high do you think Isaac can go? And what do you think his peak will be? Small-ball stretch 4 off the bench? Thad Young fringe starter? All-star caliber level such as Paul George?

He's one of the kids with huge upside and you never know how G.M.s view them because they may believe he's going to be the best of the bunch in 3 years. For team rebuilding with no hope at competing and actually embracing a tank he's maybe more desirable than the other more ready to contribute guys. If he didn't have asthma and his coach didn't pull him out of games so much I'd have a better sense. I wouldn't be surprised by anything especially of BOS gets 1st pick. Isaac is def a guy I can see putting on 30 lbs of muscle and being an ideal stretch 4 in today's NBA with elite defense. Maybe BOS plans on extending IT so guys like Ntilikina (potential SG), Tatum (SF) or Isaac (PF) move up his draft board. I feel he might possibly have Chris Bosh upside but it won't happen for awhile and it depends on his work ethic. If he doesn't reach that upside than imo his floor is 16-8-5 as a starter with good defense. I think his floor might be more likely and because there are other guys I like I pass if I'm Danny or any of the top 5 teams.

[E-Balla]

Isaac doesn't have those AD shoulders he's built more like Anthony Randolph.

Or like, you know, Kevin Durant?

So call me when he has an iota of KD's skill.

[The-Power]

Isaac doesn't have those AD shoulders he's built more like Anthony Randolph.

Or like, you know, Kevin Durant?

So call me when he has an iota of KD's skill.

It's about defensive potential. Wasn't that the initial statement you responded to?

[reanimator]

No handles to be a 3 and lack of the quickness needed for 3s. Defensively at the 4 he's weaker than even KP and KP only squeezes by with his height and Isaac doesn't even that he's a little over the average PF in length. He's a tweener in the worst way.

I think you are severely understating his handles. Is he KD or Brandon Ingram? No. Can he get to his spots to score? Yes. Don't think he needs to be overly quick with his length and his frame looks like it will allow him to get in that 225-230 lb range which works as a small ball 4. You draft Isaac because he is highly portable to any roster and compliments ball-dominant players.

[E-Balla]

Or like, you know, Kevin Durant?

So call me when he has an iota of KD's skill.

It's about defensive potential. Wasn't that the initial statement you responded to?

If one day he can become KD's level on defense and he's just a shooter on defense I don't think he'd be worth a top 5 pick in this deep draft.

[E-Balla]

No handles to be a 3 and lack of the quickness needed for 3s. Defensively at the 4 he's weaker than even KP and KP only squeezes by with his height and Isaac doesn't even that he's a little over the average PF in length. He's a tweener in the worst way.

I think you are severely understating his handles. Is he KD or Brandon Ingram? No. Can he get to his spots to score? Yes. Don't think he needs to be overly quick with his length and his frame looks like it will allow him to get in that 225-230 lb range which works as a small ball 4. You draft Isaac because he is highly portable to any roster and compliments ball-dominant players.

But this is the top 5 we're talking about here. Don't get me wrong I have Isaac 11th on my board and this is a good draft so its not like I think he's terrible but I think in the top 5 range this year you want an All Star and he's not close imo.

[reanimator]

No handles to be a 3 and lack of the quickness needed for 3s. Defensively at the 4 he's weaker than even KP and KP only squeezes by with his height and Isaac doesn't even that he's a little over the average PF in length. He's a tweener in the worst way.

I think you are severely understating his handles. Is he KD or Brandon Ingram? No. Can he get to his spots to score? Yes. Don't think he needs to be overly quick with his length and his frame looks like it will allow him to get in that 225-230 lb range which works as a small ball 4. You draft Isaac because he is highly portable to any roster and compliments ball-dominant players.

But this is the top 5 we're talking about here. Don't get me wrong I have Isaac 11th on my board and this is a good draft so its not like I think he's terrible but I think in the top 5 range this year you want an All Star and he's not close imo.

Not necessarily though I think Isaac has all-star potential, just not franchise potential. Like I said, Tatum might be a better player in a vacuum but he is going to be harder to build with a true franchise player. Outside of the big 4, the players I value in the lottery are all versatile, not overly ball dominant and allow roster flexibility (Ntilikina, Monk, Bridges).

[E-Balla]

I think you are severely understating his handles. Is he KD or Brandon Ingram? No. Can he get to his spots to score? Yes. Don't think he needs to be overly quick with his length and his frame looks like it will allow him to get in that 225-230 lb range which works as a small ball 4. You draft Isaac because he is highly portable to any roster and compliments ball-dominant players.

But this is the top 5 we're talking about here. Don't get me wrong I have Isaac 11th on my board and this is a good draft so its not like I think he's terrible but I think in the top 5 range this year you want an All Star and he's not close imo.

Not necessarily though I think Isaac has all-star potential, just not franchise potential. Like I said, Tatum might be a better player in a vacuum but he is going to be harder to build with a true franchise player. Outside of the big 4, the players I value in the lottery are all versatile, not overly ball dominant and allow roster flexibility (Ntilikina, Monk, Bridges).

This was the type of reasoning I was looking for. Thanks.

[PLO]

Why is his potential seen as being so high? I just don't see it at all. What makes him better than Tatum? Heck why him over Monk, Williams, or Lauri?

I have a more detailed reply, but shorthand, vs Tatum, Isaac is the better defender and can finish through contact vs NBA level talent (unlike Tatum) - Tatum can put the ball on the ground but has the blinkers on as soon as he does it - he obviously has more tricks ball in hand than Isaac but overall I think Isaac has the higher upside because of having NBA level athleticism and if you're drafting Isaac you really shouldn't be expecting him to be putting the ball on the floor much at all. I think Tatum will be really limited by his athleticism at the next level. Monk's deficiences are obvious, Isaac has shown more than Williams vs really good talent, but yeah Williams' ceiling is super-high. I'm not really sure if any of them end up playing Isaac's role as a slashing 4 and close to do-it-all on defense that awaits him if he fulfills his potential.

Probably the only prospect I think is potentially better is Markannan - that dude's shot is phenomenal and will translate from day one in the NBA, obviously though he's also limited in other areas.

Just to be clear, I think all of these prospects will carve out good NBA careers - ironically I think it will take Isaac and Williams the longest to reach their potential (in Isaac's case because of his build) but at their top could be better than any of them bar Lauri.

Isaac isn't even that athletic. Tatum is only slightly shorter but is more oversized for his position, and he's slower but he's also not a string bean. Everyone doesn't have the build to gain a lot of weight and unlike AD who gained 35 pounds from 2010 to 2012 Issac doesn't seem to be constantly gaining weight.

Tatum doesn't really have blinders either. Not a great passer but he's averaging 2 assists a game and he moves the ball well when he's not isolating (and even if he's isoing he's the top 1 on 1 scoring in the nation).

What really interested me about your post is that you called him a slashing 4. How do you see that? He doesn't slash now and he's guarded by guys that aren't on NBA level at all. I think he'll stick because he can shoot and defend but outside of that I'm just not seeing much.

Well, the Isaac I see is very athletic, and he's also deceptively strong - I guess I'll just disagree on that point, maybe we'll have to wait until the end of the draft process to work out just how athletic he actually is. The point with the slashing 4 is that's just where i see him fitting in in the NBA and he's shown enough that he can develop into that type of role - he'll never be a go to guy in terms of scoring. He has a lot of upside - more so than Tatum who is much closer to being the finished product. End of the day for me Isaac has more potential because of his athleticism, whereas Tatum's upside is limited because of his. And its not the case where we have just a raw athlete in Isaac who has shown no basketball chops - he's shown very good instincts especially on the defensive end and enough on the offensive side of the ball to give you hope he can become at least serviceable there.

[HotelVitale]

. The point with the slashing 4 is that's just where i see him fitting in in the NBA and he's shown enough that he can develop into that type of role - he'll never be a go to guy in terms of scoring. He has a lot of upside - more so than Tatum who is much closer to being the finished product. End of the day for me Isaac has more potential because of his athleticism, whereas Tatum's upside is limited because of his. And its not the case where we have just a raw athlete in Isaac who has shown no basketball chops - he's shown very good instincts especially on the defensive end and enough on the offensive side of the ball to give you hope he can become at least serviceable there.

This thing about Tatum's lower upside seems like nonsense. I understand that being longer and a little more athletic generally means more upside, but Tatum has plenty of upside: he could easily be a 38-40% 3pt shooter, could figure out how to use his quickness better to drive, could learn how to finish strong, refine his iso game to make use of his skills, etc. Isaac is longer and jumps quicker but he's not an amazing athletic specimen; while he looks a little better laterally and should be better at dunks/blocks/putbacks, he's not Blake Griffin who just needs a bit of refinement to dominate folks.

I'm not saying Tatum is better than Isaac, just seems like people keep finding bad ways to talk themselves into or out of prospects. It's about simple projectability, and having a good skill base to begin with doesn't mean you have nowhere to go from there. That's only true of guys (like say Doug McDermott) who can't hang as athletes in the NBA and can't create any separation on their own, and Tatum doesn't fall in that category.

[Brauer]

The fact that Isaac isn't going in the top 3 tells you how crazy good this draft is. The guy has ridiculous potential. Worst case scenario, he will be a spot up shooter + slasher with off-side blocking potential. Extremely intriguing.

[PLO]

. The point with the slashing 4 is that's just where i see him fitting in in the NBA and he's shown enough that he can develop into that type of role - he'll never be a go to guy in terms of scoring. He has a lot of upside - more so than Tatum who is much closer to being the finished product. End of the day for me Isaac has more potential because of his athleticism, whereas Tatum's upside is limited because of his. And its not the case where we have just a raw athlete in Isaac who has shown no basketball chops - he's shown very good instincts especially on the defensive end and enough on the offensive side of the ball to give you hope he can become at least serviceable there.

This thing about Tatum's lower upside seems like nonsense. I understand that being longer and a little more athletic generally means more upside, but Tatum has plenty of upside: he could easily be a 38-40% 3pt shooter, could figure out how to use his quickness better to drive, could learn how to finish strong, refine his iso game to make use of his skills, etc. Isaac is longer and jumps quicker but he's not an amazing athletic specimen; while he looks a little better laterally and should be better at dunks/blocks/putbacks, he's not Blake Griffin who just needs a bit of refinement to dominate folks.

I'm not saying Tatum is better than Isaac, just seems like people keep finding bad ways to talk themselves into or out of prospects. It's about simple projectability, and having a good skill base to begin with doesn't mean you have nowhere to go from there. That's only true of guys (like say Doug McDermott) who can't hang as athletes in the NBA and can't create any separation on their own, and Tatum doesn't fall in that category.

Right now Tatum is better than Isaac, and I don't think that fight is particularly close, obviously I think that could change 5 years or so down the track; having said that your points in favour of Tatum are fair.

[Roy The Natural]

Or like, you know, Kevin Durant?

So call me when he has an iota of KD's skill.

It's about defensive potential. Wasn't that the initial statement you responded to?

Sounds a lot like last years Aminu to me. Nice player, not worth a high lottery pick though.

[Roy The Natural]

The fact that Isaac isn't going in the top 3 tells you how crazy good this draft is. The guy has ridiculous potential. Worst case scenario, he will be a spot up shooter + slasher with off-side blocking potential. Extremely intriguing.

You mean Aminu?... It's not as exciting as you'd think.

[The-Power]

It's about defensive potential. Wasn't that the initial statement you responded to?

Sounds a lot like last years Aminu to me. Nice player, not worth a high lottery pick though.

Well, it's not. Even in a rather pessimistic scenario he's bound to be a more impactful defender (definitely inside, perhaps outside, in terms of rebounding if the trend continues although Aminu is a good rebounder himself) and a better shooter. And this isn't even factoring in most of the sleeping potential he has in him.

[Roy The Natural]

It's about defensive potential. Wasn't that the initial statement you responded to?

Sounds a lot like last years Aminu to me. Nice player, not worth a high lottery pick though.

Well, it's not. Even in a rather pessimistic scenario he's bound to be a more impactful defender (inside, outside, rebounder) and a better shooter. And this isn't even factoring in most the sleeping potential he has in him.

Well just saying stuff doesn't make it true. He's obviously bound to be a better shooter through the years than Aminu, and probably better offensively in general, the rest is pretty close. Nothing necessarily suggest to me he'll be a significantly better rebounder than Aminu... And defensively... Well, I guess we'll have to see on that. I thought that Gerald Wallace was going to be MKGs floor... I'm not making that mistake with Isaac. He doesn't have a smidgen of the strength that Ibaka has... I see a better Aminu as his reasonable outcome. A slightly better version of what Aminu was last year seems pretty fair to me.

I think, he's going to struggle creating for himself though.

[The-Power]

Sounds a lot like last years Aminu to me. Nice player, not worth a high lottery pick though.

Well, it's not. Even in a rather pessimistic scenario he's bound to be a more impactful defender (inside, outside, rebounder) and a better shooter. And this isn't even factoring in most the sleeping potential he has in him.

Well just saying stuff doesn't make it true. He's obviously bound to be a better shooter through the years than Aminu, the rest is pretty close. Nothing necessarily suggest to me he'll be a significantly better rebounder than Aminu... And defensively... Well, I guess we'll have to see on that. I thought that Gerald Wallace was going to be MKGs floor... I'm not making that mistake with Isaac. He doesn't have a smidgen of the strength that Ibaka has... I see a better Aminu as his reasonable outcome. A slightly better version of what Aminu was last year seems pretty fair to me.

Obviously nothing is true merely because I say something. But the same is true for you comparing him to Aminu due to alleged similarities and based on that calling him not worth a high lottery pick, no?

Obviously we're evaluating these talent based on their performances at the college level and flashes they show there. We make comparisons to other players and project their developments. So naturally nobody can claim something with any kind of certainty when it comes to a players impact down the road. But obviously everybody is entitled to express his/her thoughts on any given player - at least as long it's plausible and somewhat substantiated.

To me Isaac has shown an inside and outside game defensively that makes him an extremely intriguing defensive prospect in the modern NBA. Given his young age, the fact that only recently the transformation as an interior defender took place and his already impressive defensive possessions coupled with his actual desire to play defense and learn I'd be genuinely disappointed if he wasn't one of the top 5-6 defensive forwards in the league in a few years. But I'll gladly admit that this is still very much possible given the lack of knowledge we naturally have for players this early in their careers.

However, if development is fathomable and to be expected I tend to go with a more optimistic approach. Otherwise there wouldn't be a single player I'd be really excited about this year - and I love a lot of prospect in this year's draft class - because they all have flaws that will hurt them at the next level if they don't fix them to a certain extent. But history has shown that a lot of young prospects improve considerably in their first year's in the NBA to nobody's surprise.

As I hinted above, a pessimistic outlook would be a versatile defender who should be at least in the conversation of All-NBA defensive teams - if given sufficient minutes - while being an efficient offensive player who can stretch the floor. Is that worth a top 5 pick in hindsight? Probably not - which by the way would be true for basically every player in this draft if we apply a pessimistic scenario. But it most certainly is worth a lottery pick. And in case we use an optimistic scenario for his development I can't see more than four players being clearly better than him down the road.

[Roy The Natural]

Well, it's not. Even in a rather pessimistic scenario he's bound to be a more impactful defender (inside, outside, rebounder) and a better shooter. And this isn't even factoring in most the sleeping potential he has in him.

Well just saying stuff doesn't make it true. He's obviously bound to be a better shooter through the years than Aminu, the rest is pretty close. Nothing necessarily suggest to me he'll be a significantly better rebounder than Aminu... And defensively... Well, I guess we'll have to see on that. I thought that Gerald Wallace was going to be MKGs floor... I'm not making that mistake with Isaac. He doesn't have a smidgen of the strength that Ibaka has... I see a better Aminu as his reasonable outcome. A slightly better version of what Aminu was last year seems pretty fair to me.

Obviously nothing is true merely because I say something. But the same is true for you comparing him to Aminu due to alleged similarities and based on that calling him not worth a high lottery pick, no?

Obviously we're evaluating these talent based on their performances at the college level and flashes they show there. We make comparisons to other players and project their developments. So naturally nobody can claim something with any kind of certainty when it comes to a players impact down the road but obviously everybody is entitled to express his/her thoughts on any given players - at least as long it's plausible and substantiated.

To me Isaac has shown an inside and outside game defensively that makes him an extremely intriguing defensive prospect in the modern NBA. Given his young age, the fact that only recently the transformation as an interior defender took place and his already impressive defensive possessions coupled with his actual desire to play defense and learn I'd be genuinely disappointed if he wasn't one of the top 5-6 defensive forwards in the league in a few years. But I'll gladly admit that this is still very much possible given the lack of knowledge we naturally have for players this early in their careers.

However, if development is fathomable and to be expected I tend to go with a more optimistic approach. Otherwise there wouldn't be a single player I'd be really excited about this year - and I love a lot of prospect in this year's draft class - because they all have flaws that will hurt them if they don't fix them to a certain extent. But history has shown that a lot of young prospects improve considerably in their first year's in the NBA to nobody's surprise.

As I hinted above, a pessimistic outlook would be a versatile defender who should be at least in the conversation of All-NBA defensive teams - if given sufficient minutes - while being an efficient offensive player who can stretch the floor. Is that worth a top 5 pick in hindsight? Probably not - which by the way would be true for basically every player in this draft if we apply a pessimistic scenario. But it's most certainly worth a lottery pick. And in case we use an optimistic scenario for his development I can't see more than four players being clearly better than him down the road.

I don't see that level of defense coming from Isaac at all... I think your projecting some serious ability unto his defense without reasonable supporting evidence here. To say that his pessimistic view is that high a level of defense is lunacy, I'm sorry... It just is. If that was his defensive floor he's easily looking at vying for the top overall pick... which is extremely doubtful.

I will say that I didn't mean that Isaac isn't worth a lottery pick he certainly is a top 10 prospect, I just believe his likely outcome isn't really all that fantastic. His potential though, does necessitate him being picked in the top 10. He has the potential to be a star, for sure. I'm just not convinced he reaches that plateau or even close to it.