Potential sleepers

[jrob23]

Just finished to watch a game where international prospect Anzejs Pasecniks played (he is ranked #29 in Draft Express), he had a huge game against one of the top teams in Europe Real Madrid. 16 points (7/9 from the field, 1/1 from 3 point line.) I have a feeling Spurs are gonna take him.

ha. This thread should be titled "steals the Spurs will draft"

[Ruzious]

http://www.myajc.com/sports/college/ben-lammers-wins-more-praise-from-mike-brey/iwFYlGsYL8laZWziHVwDAO/
Can anyone find the error in this article that a decent basketball editor should have found?

[CalL]

Anyone been watching Moritz Wagner from Michigan? I saw him flash against UCLA earlier this season. I was impressed but now looking back and seeing how he's done I can see him getting drafted just based on upside. He can score on all three levels, is 6'10" 19 y/o. He's a stretch 4 exclusively right now. There's upside to add a lot more bulk and explosion though and that might be enough, with his size and 3 pt shooting (.422 %) to entice teams to grab him late 1st early 2nd.

I watched all of the highlights and some full games that are available on Youtube (because i am from Germany ).
He is clearly improved compared to last season and even during this season he clearly improved. Lately he had a lot of 20+ points performances and he is averaging 20 pts per 40. I think his plan clearly is to stay at least one more year (which is probably one of the reasons why there wasnt much "love" for him so far) and with him and Wilson Michigan could have a top 5 frontcourt next season. He is sometimes pretty hot-headed and some of his opponents dont really seem to like him ... (Just ask Michigan states Nick Ward ... ), but coach Beilein recently said that Wagner is one of the most ambitious players he ever coached and that he is willing to do everything it takes to improve and to win games, i think you can see that whenever he is on the court. Offensively he is for sure a first round prospect, considering his handles, his quickness and his great (3 pt) shooting, i think he could be one of the best shooting big man in the league. Defensively he often has foul troubles and you would expect a guy of his size to grab much more rebounds, i think defensivly he isnt tough/strong enough at the moment and i dont think that he would be able to play defense at the NBA level at the moment without being a liability, so he should in my opinion wait at least one more year and try to bulk up while keeping his quickness.

Here are two tweets about him (you might also take a look at the Louis Olinde highlights posted by the same user):

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

As far as i know there are no real highlights of him on Youtube, only dunks ...
Here are the highlights of the Purdue vs. Michigan game, basically a 3 pt shooting clinic of Wagner in the first half ... (22 of his 24 points were scored in the first half):

Watch on YouTube

My favorite dunk of him:

Watch on YouTube

A short "feature" about him:

Watch on YouTube

[reanimator]

As a UM fan, I like Mo Wagner but he should definitely stay another year. He has made strides defensively but has room to improve or I don't see him making any NBA rotation. Nice offensive big off the bench who should probably be drafted at the end of the first round next year. Still think DJ Wilson has the highest ceiling on this squad.

[No-Man]

I think Wagner should probably stay all 4 years honestly, he could make a roster and get a role eventually but I dont see how you draft a guy with his profile in the 1st.

[CalL]

I think Wagner should probably stay all 4 years honestly, he could make a roster and get a role eventually but I dont see how you draft a guy with his profile in the 1st.

I think everyone who regularly follows the "International Draft Prospects" threads gets it. You write the same about pretty much all german prospects, no reason to take your opinion on german talents seriously anymore. This is the first and last time i will say this, so that this thread wont end the same way the previous "Luka Doncic" thread did, but i just wanted to point it out for people who dont know how seriously they should take your opinion. Being biased is not a crime, its just bad if you dont admit it to yourself ...

About Wagner: From everything i heard about him, its very important for him to get a degree, so i am 99% sure that he wont declare unless he is a safe first rounder. I think we all agree that its very unlikely that any team can promise him that this year, so i would be more than surprised if he would declare this year.

[No-Man]

I think Wagner should probably stay all 4 years honestly, he could make a roster and get a role eventually but I dont see how you draft a guy with his profile in the 1st.

I think everyone who regularly follows the "International Draft Prospects" threads gets it. You write the same about pretty much all german prospects, no reason to take your opinion on german talents seriously anymore. This is the first and last time i will say this, so that this thread wont end the same way the previous "Luka Doncic" thread did, but i just wanted to point it out for people who dont know how seriously they should take your opinion. Being biased is not a crime, its just bad if you dont admit it to yourself ...

About Wagner: From everything i heard about him, its very important for him to get a degree, so i am 99% sure that he wont declare unless he is a safe first rounder. I think we all agree that its very unlikely that any team can promise him that this year, so i would be more than surprised if he would declare this year.

wowza that came spitfiring out of nowhere, is this just because I am not a fan of Hartensteins? I started to follow basketball because of Dirk Nowitzki, I promise you I have nothing against Germany or german players, I am a die hard Mavs fan.
I heard great things about Wagner from people I trust, it's not about that, he is clearly a smart player that can shoot and has size, fluid too, I just dont see him ever been anything more than a face-up big, he doesnt get to the rim, doesnt pass, doesnt rebound, those guys just dont carry much value, nothing against him as a player, it's just his archetype that isnt as valuable.

Unless he changes and develops a ton physically, and improves as a big, not sure he is gonna get that much from Beilein who is the best coach out there for wings, but doesnt really get players to play all that physical, I don't see a venue for him, if all he brings is shooting you are better served playing a wing.

[CalL]

I think Wagner should probably stay all 4 years honestly, he could make a roster and get a role eventually but I dont see how you draft a guy with his profile in the 1st.

I think everyone who regularly follows the "International Draft Prospects" threads gets it. You write the same about pretty much all german prospects, no reason to take your opinion on german talents seriously anymore. This is the first and last time i will say this, so that this thread wont end the same way the previous "Luka Doncic" thread did, but i just wanted to point it out for people who dont know how seriously they should take your opinion. Being biased is not a crime, its just bad if you dont admit it to yourself ...

About Wagner: From everything i heard about him, its very important for him to get a degree, so i am 99% sure that he wont declare unless he is a safe first rounder. I think we all agree that its very unlikely that any team can promise him that this year, so i would be more than surprised if he would declare this year.

wowza that came spitfiring out of nowhere, is this just because I am not a fan of Hartensteins? I started to follow basketball because of Dirk Nowitzki, I promise you I have nothing against Germany or german players, I am a die hard Mavs fan.
I heard great things about Wagner from people I trust, it's not about that, he is clearly a smart player that can shoot and has size, fluid too, I just dont see him ever been anything more than a face-up big, he doesnt get to the rim, doesnt pass, doesnt rebound, those guys just dont carry much value, nothing against him as a player, it's just his archetype that isnt as valuable.

Unless he changes and develops a ton physically, and improves as a big, not sure he is gonna get that much from Beilein who is the best coach out there for wings, but doesnt really get players to play all that physical, I don't see a venue for him, if all he brings is shooting you are better served playing a wing.

No, your comment just doesnt make much sense. I had to assume your either "not very smart" or biased, so i judged in your favor and assumed that your biased. If you would have said something like "he should stay at least one more year in college, because he is too soft right now and might be a late 2nd rounder at best", i wouldve agreed (see my previous comment on him) with you, but thats not what you said. Lets assume that he averages 30+ pts and 10+ rebounds next season (i know, extremely unlikely) and is considered the favorite for the top spot in next year's draft after the next season (i know, even more unlikely) ... should he still stay one year longer (the full four years)? I think we both agree that the answer to that question is no, so it doesnt make sense to say now (almost one and a half years away from next year's draft/the end of his 3rd year in college) that he should stay the full four years, no matter what happens during the rest of this and the next season.

I know that some people think that predicting where/if a prospect will get drafted and how this prospect will do in the league is
a lot like what a fortune teller does, but most of the time it isnt, unless someone tries to talk about things he cant judge.
Is Wagner NBA ready? No
Will he be NBA ready by the end of this season? 99% no
Will he be NBA ready by the end of the next season? Impossible to tell
Does it make any sense at the moment to say whether he should declare for the draft in 2018 or not? No, its impossible to predict how he will look by then

Like i said in the beginning: Either you dont get the simple fact that it doesnt make sense to talk about his chances of getting drafted in 2018 (-> stupid) or you dont have a clear judgement for "some reason" (-> biased).

[No-Man]

Nah man, all I said it's that I wouldn't consider him as a 1st unless he changes his archetype a ton in the next year and a half, somebody might draft him, and if that's the case he should certainly declare, I just don't see from my perspective and how I envision the draft.

[jrob23]

again, and this seems lost on some...the NBA is moving towards a stretch 4 and 5 league. Teams that might potentially draft him in the late 1st or in the 2nd aren't taking him to be a starter or major contributor right away. It would simply be to get him in their system, weight room, gym and with coaches and trainers. He absolutely has the build to get much stronger. He already has a marketable NBA skill set i.e. big with a 3 pt shot that can stretch the floor. It sounds like he might prefer to stay in school but I believe G.M.s are very aware of him and he'll get feedback about his draft stock that will make him think twice about declaring. He's played very well against good teams and has already shown me he is draftable this year either late 1st or early 2nd. He's improved dramatically since last season. If he does decide to stay in school and keeps improving he'll most assuredly be a 1st rounder but then he's also a year older. So that needs to be figured into his decision. I don't think he's going to improve so much that he's a mid 1st next year so if he hears 1st he should just declare. Again, if that is his dream to play in the NBA.

[pantalones]

Donovan Mitchell is going to be one of the best guards to come out of the 2017 draft. He's gonna be a two way player

Who does he play for?

[pantalones]

Mike Daum - 6'9" - 245 pounds with a rumored 7'1" wingspan. 25ppg, 8rpg, 51.6% fg, 42.7% from 3, 87.6% ft

Great post scorer, elite shooter for his size. Terrible defensively. Below average athlete at next level. Dropped 51 points in a game recently. Probably won't sneak into the 2nd round, or even enter the draft... But he's got a little McDermott in him. Looks slightly bigger, but not the same shooter.

Who does he play for? Why do so many of you guys list "sleeper players" and not say what school they're from? You'd get a "F" in marketing. lol

[DaddyCool19]

Mike Daum - 6'9" - 245 pounds with a rumored 7'1" wingspan. 25ppg, 8rpg, 51.6% fg, 42.7% from 3, 87.6% ft

Great post scorer, elite shooter for his size. Terrible defensively. Below average athlete at next level. Dropped 51 points in a game recently. Probably won't sneak into the 2nd round, or even enter the draft... But he's got a little McDermott in him. Looks slightly bigger, but not the same shooter.

Who does he play for? Why do so many of you guys list "sleeper players" and not say what school they're from? You'd get a "F" in marketing. lol

And you get a F for laziness. You could literally just copy paste their names and their espn profile should appear as the first result in google...

[BoyzNTheHood]

At what point is Frank Mason considered a sleeper? Yes, he's on one of the most recognized teams in the NCAA, but because of his size he's not on many draft boards. If this kid was 6'3" he'd probably be a late lottery to late first round pick.

[cksdayoff]

Donovan Mitchell is going to be one of the best guards to come out of the 2017 draft. He's gonna be a two way player

Who does he play for?

Louisville

[The-Power]

At what point is Frank Mason considered a sleeper? Yes, he's on one of the most recognized teams in the NCAA, but because of his size he's not on many draft boards. If this kid was 6'3" he'd probably be a late lottery to late first round pick.

Frank Mason is a 22 yrs old Senior who's only been an efficient volume scorer this year. Average playmaker, won't be an impactful defender at the next level and his lack of height most definitely causes more troubles at the next level than in college - and he doesn't even have the quickness to make up for at least some of it.

I hope he proves me wrong but I don't see it with him. Maybe a 3rd-string PG down the road if he manages to be a reliable shooter at the next level. But I guess the nature of sleepers is that many people aren't high on them as prospects. So here's to being proven wrong!

[DubCeeSwag]

Think this is a fairly new sleeper. De'Ron Davis from Indiana. He's a freshman who has been playing great recently. Needs to gain weight, but is 6'10 with a legitimate wingspan and he's really smart. If he doesn't get interest this year, he's going to be a draft pick next year.

Nope. He may have been smart in HS, but after Crean ball ...total DERP!

In the games I've seen more recently he has made great defensive plays. Seems really smart on that end.

He always plays hard. Crean teams are noted for it. He just doesn't play smart and he's known for that too. He recruits measurables, while intangibles are ignored. I think the fans of every team in that basketball crazy state value the intangibles and basketball IQ, over measurements and physical attributes. At least that's my view of "Indiana" basketball. Crean doesn't understand that.

[No-Man]

Cam Oliver is still a sleeper I feel like, Jordan Bell too, those guys are good bets to be solid role players, heck Oliver might even be a starter, and they are likely going in the 2nd.

[pantalones]

Mike Daum - 6'9" - 245 pounds with a rumored 7'1" wingspan. 25ppg, 8rpg, 51.6% fg, 42.7% from 3, 87.6% ft

Great post scorer, elite shooter for his size. Terrible defensively. Below average athlete at next level. Dropped 51 points in a game recently. Probably won't sneak into the 2nd round, or even enter the draft... But he's got a little McDermott in him. Looks slightly bigger, but not the same shooter.

Who does he play for? Why do so many of you guys list "sleeper players" and not say what school they're from? You'd get a "F" in marketing. lol

And you get a F for laziness. You could literally just copy paste their names and their espn profile should appear as the first result in google...

What? That makes zero sense. The thread isn't titled "Ask questions about draft picks" it's called "Potential Sleepers" and invites posters to post about under the radar guys, therefore it is incumbent upon the poster to provide all of the info about said player if he's trying to sell us, the reader, on that player. It's not up to me to go digging up info an a player that you want me to know about, it's up to you to try to sell me on the player, so it behooves you to post all of the skinny, i.e position, height, stats and school. Again, marketing 101.

[pantalones]

Donovan Mitchell is going to be one of the best guards to come out of the 2017 draft. He's gonna be a two way player

Who does he play for?

Louisville

Thanks