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Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (NBA Champion will be announced Thursday 7PM)

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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (First round playoff winners announced Friday 8PM) 

Post#2761 » by Smash3 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:23 pm

JustCame wrote:
Smash3 wrote:
JustCame wrote:
Giving any credibility to a one year video game sim is a joke, right? :wink:

IT/Dray (for comparison: easily as good as Lowry/George) is elite by itself, then add Brook (who was an all-star in the sim lol), and I wouldn't be questioning the loss too much.


Whoah there... You have an elite role player and a lesser Lowry... In no universe are they easily as good as the PG13/Lowry duo :D


IT and Dray fit better. IT is a better scorer than Lowry. IT overall is not far off Westbrook and Harden in terms of offensive impact. Dray is a better playmaker than George. Dray is the best defender in the league. See what I'm getting at here? I think in this universe and our relative timeline they are easily as good of a duo.


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I was going to break down why they are much better than your duo, but that joke killed me
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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (First round playoff winners announced Friday 8PM) 

Post#2762 » by JustCame » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:27 pm

Smash3 wrote:
JustCame wrote:
Smash3 wrote:
Whoah there... You have an elite role player and a lesser Lowry... In no universe are they easily as good as the PG13/Lowry duo :D


IT and Dray fit better. IT is a better scorer than Lowry. IT overall is not far off Westbrook and Harden in terms of offensive impact. Dray is a better playmaker than George. Dray is the best defender in the league. See what I'm getting at here? I think in this universe and our relative timeline they are easily as good of a duo.


I was going to break down why they are much better than your duo, but that joke killed me


Is it really a joke though?

IT has 43 20 point games in a row, and averages 32 PPG and 6 APG the last 3 months. Not to mention, he's also averaging the most points in the 4th quarter in 20 years. So basically, when a team wants/needs to stop him they can't. Obviously his impact offensively is not as good, but it's not as far off as you're making it seem.
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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (First round playoff winners announced Friday 8PM) 

Post#2763 » by Smash3 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:47 pm

JustCame wrote:
Smash3 wrote:
JustCame wrote:
IT and Dray fit better. IT is a better scorer than Lowry. IT overall is not far off Westbrook and Harden in terms of offensive impact. Dray is a better playmaker than George. Dray is the best defender in the league. See what I'm getting at here? I think in this universe and our relative timeline they are easily as good of a duo.


I was going to break down why they are much better than your duo, but that joke killed me


Is it really a joke though?

IT it's 43 20 point games in a row, and averages 32 PPG and 6 APG the last 3 months. Not to mention, he's also averaging the most points in the 4th quarter in 20 years. So basically, when a team wants/needs to stop him they can't. Obviously his impact offensively is not as good, but it's not as far off as you're making it seem.



Alright let's set that aside for a moment...

Lowry is almost even with a great scorer like Thomas in raw scoring (Even though IT he has a crazy ppg, he doesn’t share his backcourt with a Derozan level scorer), but what matters is Lowry outdoes him in almost every other measure – especially on defense where it’s not even close – Boston gives up about 111 points per 100 possessions with Thomas on the floor – in other words worst defensive team in the league. PG13 is a better scorer, arguably close to same level on playmaking and defense as Dray when he is locked in, and when you consider all these things it’s frankly not a discussion worth having. You have a good combo, but more often than not Dray’s defensive impact will go to waste covering IT’s as*s

The offensive combo of PG13 and Lowry easily outdoes Dray and IT, defensively when PG13 and Lowry are on the floor they’ll change the game from ball pressure, to challenging shots, and stifling all the great playmakers a lot of teams have. When IT and Dray are playing defense, IT will start crying after Dray has used every curse word in the book.
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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (First round playoff winners announced Friday 8PM) 

Post#2764 » by JustCame » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:27 pm

Smash3 wrote:
JustCame wrote:
Smash3 wrote:
I was going to break down why they are much better than your duo, but that joke killed me


Is it really a joke though?

IT it's 43 20 point games in a row, and averages 32 PPG and 6 APG the last 3 months. Not to mention, he's also averaging the most points in the 4th quarter in 20 years. So basically, when a team wants/needs to stop him they can't. Obviously his impact offensively is not as good, but it's not as far off as you're making it seem.


Alright let's set that aside for a moment...

Lowry is almost even with a great scorer like Thomas in raw scoring (Even though IT he has a crazy ppg, he doesn’t share his backcourt with a Derozan level scorer), but what matters is Lowry outdoes him in almost every other measure – especially on defense where it’s not even close – Boston gives up about 111 points per 100 possessions with Thomas on the floor – in other words worst defensive team in the league. PG13 is a better scorer, arguably close to same level on playmaking and defense as Dray when he is locked in, and when you consider all these things it’s frankly not a discussion worth having. You have a good combo, but more often than not Dray’s defensive impact will go to waste covering IT’s as*s

The offensive combo of PG13 and Lowry easily outdoes Dray and IT, defensively when PG13 and Lowry are on the floor they’ll change the game from ball pressure, to challenging shots, and stifling all the great playmakers a lot of teams have. When IT and Dray are playing defense, IT will start crying after Dray has used every curse word in the book.


You're evading the offensive impact argument that you just laughed at. I never mentioned defense then. IT's defense will be fine in my scheme. I let him sag off athletic PGs who can't shoot, and if I'm against a team with a stud all-around PG, I'll throw guys like Shump/Liggins/Gallo on him, and have IT cover the SG who usually isn't too much of a threat considering the position's scarcity. Dray will have no problem anchoring a successful defense, especially with backup stud paint defenders like Nene/Reed to take pressure off him. Defense is a team effort, and overall I have more defensive players on my team than offensive.

But purely as a duo, IT/Dray is a majestic hybrid of offense and defense. You're also just focusing on the pessimistic POV of my original statement. I said you had an elite duo. That's praise if anything. lol
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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (First round playoff winners announced Friday 8PM) 

Post#2765 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:37 pm

swisscheeseD wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:hey swiss, can I see what you submitted to bish about my team? thanks


swisscheeseD wrote:7. Cleveland Cavaliers – I will be honest, I hated the thought of qualifying this team as a playoff team. I think they did a terrible job surrounding Kevin Durant with talent worthy of his caliber to make a true contender. They left plenty on the table during many of their selections. No moves being made to get him a secondary star, or even another type of dynamic for style of play. Some of the picks weren’t even “safe” picks, just questionable one’s throughout. Everyone has their own style and preferences with player valuations, but ctorres just never goes for the jugular. He’d rather explain his selections with stats over so many recent games, or shot charts as a means of how these guys not just complement each other, but will take each of them to levels they’ve never even reached before. Teague is not a secondary piece, and even if he’s trying to be passed as one, it would mean that an elite 3rd option better be present…and it’s not. The frontcourt is a mess defensively with no rim protection from either of DLee/Plumlee. Terrance Jones is having a solid comeback season and while he should be starting in place of Lee, it isn’t so much of an upgrade that propels this team any further than where it is currently ranked. Is Kevin Durant really good enough to make this a playoff team? I have a hard time answering “no” to any question that asks me if “Durant is good enough” …Durant chose an easy way out once, fleeing the challenge in OKC with Westbrook. How is he going to respond facing similar challenges with Teague? This team has a Melo leading the lowly Knicks vibe to it, with a lot of potential for drama with the lack of support. The only reason it fairs better, is because Durant is on another level than Melo and they have decent PG play from Teague. But this team can just as easily miss the boat come playoff time.


swisscheeseD wrote:
Cleveland Cavaliers at Orlando Magic

Cleveland Cavaliers

G: Jeff Teague /Jameer Nelson
G: Tyler Johnson / Marco Belinelli / Jordan McRae
F: Kevin Durant / Joe Harris / Mike Scott
F: Terrence Jones / David Lee
C: Mason Plumlee / Ivica Zubac

Orlando Magic

Russ - Rivers - Tyus - Udrih
Young - Snell
Barnes - Tolliver- Luwawu
Anderson - Allen - Nicholson
Chandler - Okafor - Mi Plumlee


WINNER - Orlando Magic (4-1)

Russell Westbrook’s revenge.
Not only do you have the WB/KD dynamic, you can throw-in the HB/KD dynamic as well (given KD taking HB’s spot on the W’s). While I don’t believe HB has the alpha-mindset to actually take win this matchup, he is having an excellent year and is talented enough on both sides of the ball to at least stay with him. This Magic ballclub is a perfectly constructed roster and Westbrook will absolutely abuse the Cavs in penetration with their lack of rim-protection. Terrance Jones is really their only shot-altering threat at the rim and he will have his hands full staying at home with Ryno, camping out behind the line. The Magic have a distinct rebounding advantage and are the more physical of the two. I see Westbrook going HAM this series, which won’t be much of a series from the jump. I can see the Cavs steal a game if Westbrook has an off-night, or in a close game that KD takes over down the stretch…but they don’t have the pieces to make the necessary adjustments to win a best of 7 game series.

thanks for the criticism. looks like the lack of a true second option and my front court defense really killed me. i thought the make up of teague and johnson would make up for the scoring help. both of them are having career season's. also i liked my bench a lot. jameer nelson, marco, lee, has been the league's best backups out there. but like you said, everyone else has their own style and preference. i respect your decision. thanks for the hard work you've been putting in as well, takes a lot to do what you do
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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (First round playoff winners announced Friday 8PM) 

Post#2766 » by Manhattan Project » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:40 am

Smash3 wrote:Denver vs Mavs will be one of the better series so far


Some would say it's the series of all series, according to multiple sources of course.
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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (First round playoff winners announced Friday 8PM) 

Post#2767 » by bringbackhoffa » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:02 pm

Lance Nance past 5 games.. 5PPG/5RPG on a crappy team that is desperate for front court scoring... cant even make simple 5 foot jump shots.. upcoming "star" sure....
Charlotte Hornets


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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (First round playoff winners announced Friday 8PM) 

Post#2768 » by bishnykfan » Wed Mar 1, 2017 2:23 am

Conference Finals will be announced tomorrow at 7PM.
All-Time Draft

PG- Oscar Robertson/Bob Cousy
SG- Earl Monroe/James Harden/Dana Barros
SF- Billy Cunningham/Michael Finley/Chet Walker
PF- Elvin Hayes/Dolph Schayes/Tom Chambers/Danny Manning
C- Walt Bellamy/Neil Johnston/Darryl Dawkins
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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (Conference Finals will be announced Wednesday 7PM) 

Post#2769 » by bishnykfan » Thu Mar 2, 2017 2:45 am

Final Four has been posted, congrats to each of you. Please have your write-ups to me by 8PM tomorrow. I'd like to finish this off by this weekend if possible.
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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (Conference Finals will be announced Wednesday 7PM) 

Post#2770 » by br7knicks » Thu Mar 2, 2017 2:58 am

SIM don't lie


except for when it comes to which team makes the NBA Finals, of course!


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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (Conference Finals will be announced Wednesday 7PM) 

Post#2771 » by IllmaticHandler » Thu Mar 2, 2017 3:04 am

Mags Gets an award to me no matter what just because he is the lowest drafter still standing. Every pick besides his is top 10. His first pick was 28.
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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (Conference Finals will be announced Wednesday 7PM) 

Post#2772 » by j4remi » Thu Mar 2, 2017 3:25 am

Felt like that was the worst possible match-up for me to deal with and tried to play it off in my write up. I hate you br7, but dammit I respect you.
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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (Conference Finals will be announced Wednesday 7PM) 

Post#2773 » by swisscheeseD » Thu Mar 2, 2017 4:22 am

j4remi wrote:Felt like that was the worst possible match-up for me to deal with and tried to play it off in my write up. I hate you br7, but dammit I respect you.


Fwiw...

swisscheeseD wrote:
Orlando Magic at Charlotte Hornets

Orlando Magic

Russell Westbrook/Beno Udrih/Tyus Jones
Austin Rivers/Nick Young
Harrison Barnes/Tony Snell
Ryan Anderson/Anthony Tolliver
Tyson Chandler/Jahlil Okafor / Lavoy Allen

Charlotte Hornets

Chris Paul
Tony Allen/Monta Ellis/CJ Watson
Rodney Hood/RIchard Jefferson/Corey Brewer
Marvin Williams/Trevor Booker
Dwight Howard/Al Jefferson/Jason Smith


WINNER : Charlotte Hornets (4-2)

This series has been the most difficult for me to judge. I had great conversations about vision and construction with both br7 and j4. I think remi's Magic are the most complete, well-built / thought out squads in this entire competition...but he ran into the 1 team, in my eyes, who have the ability to match-up defensively against his offensive juggernaut.

The Tony Allen selection for br7 was one of the more impactful selections of the mid-rounds. It really solidified his defense, but more importantly, sets the tone for it. He gives them an identity and is a leader through and through. Add Chris Paul and other high character vets to the equation and you have the answer to keep Howard (for the most part) engaged, in check and focused. With CP3/TAllen and even Marv to an extent, the Hornets have the ability to throw some elite/physical perimeter defenders at Westbrook. The Hornets feature one of the higher defensive IQ's in the competition and can also funnel Westbrook into Dwight down-low.

With the Hornets frustrating Westbrook, forcing him into highly-contested shots and making poor decisions with the ball, the onus will be on Harrison Barnes to bring a calmness to the offense, stepping up offensively and being in the right spots. While that basically describes HB's game, he lacks the killer instinct to take over in an alpha role. I actually see him as a rich man's Rodney Hood in this series, with those two almost cancelling each other out. If HB is asked to do too much, its a recipe for failure, especially in the playoffs. I loved his fit with Westbrook in the regular season, and even in his first round matchup against Durant. But that was because Westbrook couldn't be stopped over 82 games and in that 1st Round match-up against Teague (and DLee/Plumlee frontcourt).

Both teams feature a stretch 4 (that were ironically traded for each other), and while Ryno is the much better offensive option (Marv having a down year), Marv certainly makes up for it on the defensive end. These teams are also very evenly matched when it comes to rebounding, but I give an edge to the Magic in terms of bench ability. Monta/AlJeff are cooked and while they can contribute, its only in limited minutes in a limited role. Guys like Swaggy P and Okafor are major upgrades offensively and can really pack a punch keeping the Magic in games, and ahead in them, off the bench.

This series ultimately comes down to the potential to contain Westbrook and being efficient in a CP3-led offense...both of which I believe the Hornets are capable of doing.

---
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SF: Kawhi Leonard / R.O’Neale / Caleb Martin
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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (First round playoff winners announced Friday 8PM) 

Post#2774 » by magnumt » Thu Mar 2, 2017 4:35 am

magnumt wrote:
Mecca wrote:Damnit.. I knew it was going to be a tough series. Really thought it could've gone either way. This is your best team yet mags. Congrats.


Thanks man! Good game/series! :beer: It's funny how many of the matchups turned out the same in both the SIM & Judging.

br7knicks wrote:
Smash3 wrote:The only flaw I see with the sim is that it's using prime Lamarcus Aldridge and prime Parsons :eek2:


aldridge is only 3 out of 5 rating, parsons is 2 out of 5. they're not prime at all.


Dude, don't be a sore loser. You lost fair and square, quit trying to over analyze and nitpick, Lowery & George choked just like they always do. :D

Kidding. Good game/series. :thumbsup: :beer:

On a side note, looks like Denver and the Warriors were the 2 best teams in the West, and Magic & Hawks were the 2 best teams in the East.

Finally, their were some CLASSIC close and made-for-TV endings to some of those series (ESPECIALLY in the East! :o ).

--Mags


Good game Jose7 (Portland)! :beer:

The judging pretty much matched the team qualities I mentioned above that the SIM produced (the 2 best teams in each conference I mean).

Congrats, and good luck to the Final 4!!! :clap: :beer:

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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (Conference Finals will be announced Wednesday 7PM) 

Post#2775 » by magnumt » Thu Mar 2, 2017 4:41 am

IllmaticHandler wrote:Mags Gets an award to me no matter what just because he is the lowest drafter still standing. Every pick besides his is top 10. His first pick was 28.


Thank you brutha!!!

:love: :hug: :beer:

--Mags
BAF 1.0 - Wizards: Year 2
PG: Kemba Walker (32) / Rivers (16) / Felton
SG: Evan Fournier (28) / Evans (20) / Dotson
SF: Gordon Hayward (36)/ Delly (12) / Dudley
PF: Kevin Love (36) / Frye (12) / Ellenson
C: Pau Gasol (32) / Noah (16) / Felicio


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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (Conference Finals will be announced Wednesday 7PM) 

Post#2776 » by El Poochio » Thu Mar 2, 2017 4:59 am

:lol:

This is a joke right?

Like NBA is not enough even the BAT is rigged in favour of LeBron James. 3/4 of the supposed best teams are trash, if this was real life Warriors wouldnt even make the playoffs, Nuggets Hornets would have been first round exits at best. Easiest walk to a title for LeBron since 2012..

Congratulations to Deeez Knicks! Built my team to beat yours didnt even sniff the playoffs :D
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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (Conference Finals will be announced Wednesday 7PM) 

Post#2777 » by Manhattan Project » Thu Mar 2, 2017 5:12 am

Pretty interesting to see how the judging and simulation did actually pair up, curious to see how many times that would play out if it was simmed X amount of times. I'm sure it was a tough call between Dallas and Denver, glad to see I squeezed it out. Going to be an interesting match with the Warriors.
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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (Conference Finals will be announced Wednesday 7PM) 

Post#2778 » by Smash3 » Thu Mar 2, 2017 6:29 am

Manhattan Project wrote:Pretty interesting to see how the judging and simulation did actually pair up, curious to see how many times that would play out if it was simmed X amount of times. I'm sure it was a tough call between Dallas and Denver, glad to see I squeezed it out. Going to be an interesting match with the Warriors.


Good series, congrats MP.

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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (Conference Finals will be announced Wednesday 7PM) 

Post#2779 » by swisscheeseD » Thu Mar 2, 2017 12:06 pm

El Poochio wrote::lol:

This is a joke right?

Like NBA is not enough even the BAT is rigged in favour of LeBron James. 3/4 of the supposed best teams are trash, if this was real life Warriors wouldnt even make the playoffs, Nuggets Hornets would have been first round exits at best. Easiest walk to a title for LeBron since 2012..

Congratulations to Deeez Knicks! Built my team to beat yours didnt even sniff the playoffs :D


Agreed for the most part...

Everyone says how this was the most competitive BAT yet, I heavily disagree. It was only competitive because there was no standout team. The West was trash thru and thru and the East didn't do enough with all that top tier talent.

This is one of the more poorly constructed LeBron-led rosters. The Magic didn't have enough firepower offensively to get passed a tough matchup for Westbrook. The Hornets are built on two "star" players who could never get over the hump, the Wiz failed to make proper use of all their acquired depth around Kawhi, etc.

I was excited to judge this competition, but everything put in front of me was uninspiring to say the least.
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SF: Kawhi Leonard / R.O’Neale / Caleb Martin
PF: Draymond Green / B.Portis / A.Aminu
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Re: Build a Team 17.0 Discussion Thread #3 (Conference Finals will be announced Wednesday 7PM) 

Post#2780 » by j4remi » Thu Mar 2, 2017 12:50 pm

swisscheeseD wrote:Fwiw...

swisscheeseD wrote:
Orlando Magic at Charlotte Hornets

Orlando Magic

Russell Westbrook/Beno Udrih/Tyus Jones
Austin Rivers/Nick Young
Harrison Barnes/Tony Snell
Ryan Anderson/Anthony Tolliver
Tyson Chandler/Jahlil Okafor / Lavoy Allen

Charlotte Hornets

Chris Paul
Tony Allen/Monta Ellis/CJ Watson
Rodney Hood/RIchard Jefferson/Corey Brewer
Marvin Williams/Trevor Booker
Dwight Howard/Al Jefferson/Jason Smith


WINNER : Charlotte Hornets (4-2)

This series has been the most difficult for me to judge. I had great conversations about vision and construction with both br7 and j4. I think remi's Magic are the most complete, well-built / thought out squads in this entire competition...but he ran into the 1 team, in my eyes, who have the ability to match-up defensively against his offensive juggernaut.

The Tony Allen selection for br7 was one of the more impactful selections of the mid-rounds. It really solidified his defense, but more importantly, sets the tone for it. He gives them an identity and is a leader through and through. Add Chris Paul and other high character vets to the equation and you have the answer to keep Howard (for the most part) engaged, in check and focused. With CP3/TAllen and even Marv to an extent, the Hornets have the ability to throw some elite/physical perimeter defenders at Westbrook. The Hornets feature one of the higher defensive IQ's in the competition and can also funnel Westbrook into Dwight down-low.

With the Hornets frustrating Westbrook, forcing him into highly-contested shots and making poor decisions with the ball, the onus will be on Harrison Barnes to bring a calmness to the offense, stepping up offensively and being in the right spots. While that basically describes HB's game, he lacks the killer instinct to take over in an alpha role. I actually see him as a rich man's Rodney Hood in this series, with those two almost cancelling each other out. If HB is asked to do too much, its a recipe for failure, especially in the playoffs. I loved his fit with Westbrook in the regular season, and even in his first round matchup against Durant. But that was because Westbrook couldn't be stopped over 82 games and in that 1st Round match-up against Teague (and DLee/Plumlee frontcourt).

Both teams feature a stretch 4 (that were ironically traded for each other), and while Ryno is the much better offensive option (Marv having a down year), Marv certainly makes up for it on the defensive end. These teams are also very evenly matched when it comes to rebounding, but I give an edge to the Magic in terms of bench ability. Monta/AlJeff are cooked and while they can contribute, its only in limited minutes in a limited role. Guys like Swaggy P and Okafor are major upgrades offensively and can really pack a punch keeping the Magic in games, and ahead in them, off the bench.

This series ultimately comes down to the potential to contain Westbrook and being efficient in a CP3-led offense...both of which I believe the Hornets are capable of doing.

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Our thoughts line-up damn near exactly, my bias thinks the Magic could contain the Hornets enough for Westbrook and Barnes even with tough match-ups would put enough offense up to win. But it's a toss-up to me and that defense they have is just brutal for my build, so cheers fam I can't hate on any of it.
PG- Haliburton | Schroder | Sasser
SG- Grimes | Dick | Bogdanovic
SF- Bridges | George
PF- Hunter |Strus| Fleming
C- Turner | Powell | Wiseman

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