2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2

[Sixersftw]

I hope we only get the 5th pick in the draft so we have no choice but to take Monk

I think walking away with Monk is solid. He has defensive concerns but he is a scorer/sniper that would really set off our lineup. His limitations are masked in our lineup also. Monk is a really good prospect its just this Draft is bonkers.

[phiphan]

I've convinced myself to warm up to Monk now that our pick is falling. He's the most athletic guy in the top 10 next to Smith. I don't count on him defending anyone but I think his upside is a rich man's Lou Williams, take away a pinch of ballhandling and add a pinch of shooting. That's a decent fit on our roster.

[Negrodamus]

I've cooled on Monk. He's still on the back end of the top ten because the potential is very much there, but others shot up the board. Fox is a top five pick at this point. UK has blown up recently because of him. And I don't think his shot is completely broken.

[NBA Moses]

The tournament played out well for the 76ers, if they can get that Lakers pick. The best players are gone, and didn't get the tournament 'bump'. Had a feeling Jackson would play himself into #1. I'm still hopeful he can somehow fall to the 76ers.

Except if you like the 2 guards from Kentucky. If Fox + Monk take down NC they may be both out of the Sixers range.

Those 2, especially Fox, seem to be playing at a different level than the rest of lottery picks both physically and mentally.

[Kobblehead]

I think Zach Collins is the best prospect still in the tourney. With Robert Williams likely staying in school, I think he's far and away the best big in this draft.

[shawn_hemp]

I think Fox is getting over hyped now

I don't get how having a good game against a poor defensive team can make someone the next John Wall

He still can't run a half court offense well

Still can't shoot

Still needs the ball in his hands to be effective on offense

I said months ago that he is a more athletic Marcus Smart

Just how I see De'Aaron Fox at least

[cksdayoff]

I've cooled on Monk. He's still on the back end of the top ten because the potential is very much there, but others shot up the board. Fox is a top five pick at this point. UK has blown up recently because of him. And I don't think his shot is completely broken.

I believe his shot needs to be reworked

[kriss73]

The FTA and rebounds rates of Monk are horrible.
The risk of having a one dimensional shooter with no defense is high.
I'm not sold in him so high in the lottery.

Imho our FO needs to give a deep look to Ntilikina.

[shawn_hemp]

The FTA and rebounds rates of Monk are horrible.
The risk of having a one dimensional shooter with no defense is high.
I'm not sold in him so high in the lottery.

Imho our FO needs to give a deep look to Ntilikina.

Believe me dude, cha feel.

But let's say you're right and Monk only ever becomes a catch and shoot guy who can't play defense, I just don't get why that is looked at as an unacceptable player to take this year.

What else does our team need exactly?

A guy who can shoot 3s, drive to the rim and kick it out or finish through contact, lock down the opposing matchup, and bring the ball up the floor?

Yeah, pretty sure 29 other teams need more of those guys as well. If you have someone in mind (Josh Jackson?), me and 30 GMs are all ears

I'd rather take Monk for what he is then take Ball, Tatum, Jackson, Isaac, or Ntilikina for what they might be

Dennis Smith Jr would be an acceptable alternative.

Don't really want any other player since Fultz will be gone most likely. Monk or DSJ. or trade for CJ McCollum. That's it.

Nah, I'd be cool with Jackson as well actually. But I don't think we will have a chance at him

1. Fultz
2. Jackson
3. Monk
4. DSJ
5. Tatum
6. Isaac
-
-
-
-
v
7.Everyone else

My real big board

Watch on YouTube

[cksdayoff]

Just getting an athletic backcourt talent transforms this team whether its DSJ, Fox or Monk

[Kobblehead]

C'mon guys, filling key roles with extremely flawed players like Malik Monk is not the route that we should be taking. That's going to lead to nowhere.

Focus on adding guys with 2-way ability. Or in the very least, multi tool offensive players. Malik Monk is a weak prospect, IMO.

[NBA Moses]

I think Fox is getting over hyped now

I don't get how having a good game against a poor defensive team can make someone the next John Wall

He still can't run a half court offense well

Still can't shoot

Still needs the ball in his hands to be effective on offense

I said months ago that he is a more athletic Marcus Smart

Just how I see De'Aaron Fox at least

It hasnt been Just 1 game for DeAaron Fox . He has put Kentucky on his back the entire month of March. Avg. 23 pts on 56% shooting for March. SEC Tourney MVP and hes on his way to NCAA Tournament MVP.

Some kids rise to the challenge(DeAaron Fox) Others fade in the spotlight(Lonzo Ball) and others are aimlessly standing in the shadows leading his team to a 8-23 record (Fultz) .

Give me DeAaron Fox.

UCLA is a better team than Kentucky but Kentucky had the better PG and leader. Thats why they are advancing and UCLA went home.

[kriss73]

After seeing Monk for a year, I agree that he is a weak prospect.
Even if we'll pick at 7/8, the pure need approach isn't the best strategy imho.

[Negrodamus]

I've cooled on Monk. He's still on the back end of the top ten because the potential is very much there, but others shot up the board. Fox is a top five pick at this point. UK has blown up recently because of him. And I don't think his shot is completely broken.

I believe his shot needs to be reworked

I'd rather have a shooting coach work on De'Aaron's shot than Lonzo's shot. His mechanics look pretty decent and he's a good enough FT shooter right now.

[Negrodamus]

I think Zach Collins is the best prospect still in the tourney. With Robert Williams likely staying in school, I think he's far and away the best big in this draft.

If DJ Wilson enters the draft and I'm a team like the T'Wolves, I'd probably choose him over a Zach Collins.

[shawn_hemp]

When Kentucky plays UNC I want you guys to watch Malik Monk every possession on defense. It's pretty much all I've been doing during Kentucky games recently

I don't get the "poor" defender narrative at all

He doesn't put 100% effort into defense when the situation doesn't require it

And unless I have missed something in the past, ever years, that is what the NBA is all about

Nobody locks people down every single possession, it's just not practical.

You play defense when you need to play defense, and that's what Malik Monk does

If you can't see that I can't help you

Watch him on defense. He won't come in the league and be shutting down the top PGs but to think he can't at least be a neutral player on that side of the court is ridiculous.

And it might seem like I've been making much to do about nothing but that is always the first thing people bring up for why he isn't a lotto pick

"Dude can't play defense"

"Might as well be 4v5"

"No wingspan, too small to guard SGs, not quick enough to guard PGs"

And I hear the concern

I'm just saying I think you are wrong. Malik Monk CAN play defense. He is always between his man and the basket. Gets around screens. Uses his "short arms" to contest shots well

The only reason people say he is a bad defender is because Fox is so much better at getting steals and deflections. And that makes Monk look worse by default

Watch him on the defensive end for a whole game, it's really not as big of a concern as it's made out to be

The dribbling thing, yeah, you guys are probably right. He's not the greatest dribbler. I'll concede that

But he is not a bad defender

[Slizeezyc]

I've cooled on Monk. He's still on the back end of the top ten because the potential is very much there, but others shot up the board. Fox is a top five pick at this point. UK has blown up recently because of him. And I don't think his shot is completely broken.

I believe his shot needs to be reworked

I'd rather have a shooting coach work on De'Aaron's shot than Lonzo's shot. His mechanics look pretty decent and he's a good enough FT shooter right now.

You wouldn't trust the guy shooting 40% from deep over the guy who can't hit any sort of jumper with consistency?

Lonzo doesn't have a pull-up game based on his mechanics, but at least he has a stepback and a standstill that are already real things. Fox has nothing to hang his hat on as a standstill or off the bounce shooter. I also don't think you're going to change Ball's mechanics besides maybe trying to figure out a way to make the load happen more quickly so this is sort of a weird line to go down as is. I doubt you can quickly change something like making it so he keeps the ball on one side of his body so he can shoot going both ways rather than just one etc. without massive changes, so you just wouldn't make them because he makes shots already.

Regardless, I feel like in terms of probable outcomes, it's way more rare for the non-shooting PG to figure something like that versus someone who already has shots to fall back on.

Guys like Derrick Rose and John Wall were solid at free throws, it doesn't mean they get better as shooters or figure things out eventually (neither ever really has, which is fine as at least Wall has made it work still, but the point is the shooting). There generally needs to be some body of work that hints at it beyond solid free-throw percentage for a PG -- again, because these guys are dribbling and shooting not taking standstill jumpers. The bar is lower for those guys because their other skills offset the shooting issues, so I don't get too hung up on the Fox shooting thing either way. Either you believe in him as a PG who can break a defense like those dudes or you don't. Everything else is sort of relative to fit if you believe that much as any shooting you do get is just a bonus towards him being a MVP talent rather than just an All-Star talent.

[Arsenal]

Malik Monk has untapped point guard skills also. That's just not his role at Kentucky because Fox and Briscoe need the ball in their hands and Monk can be a dangerous weapon off-ball. I agree his defensive concerns are overstated as well. There's no reason he can't be a decent defender at PG with his combination of size and athleticism. I can easily see him becoming a better defender than Fultz, Ball, and Smith for example.

Again I like the C.J. McCollum comparison. He is a decent defender of PG's. His problem is that because Lillard has to defend PG's, he is forced to defend SG's which he has trouble with. I believe Monk will be the same. We are a team where he will defend PG's.

[Unbreakable99]

C'mon guys, filling key roles with extremely flawed players like Malik Monk is not the route that we should be taking. That's going to lead to nowhere.

Focus on adding guys with 2-way ability. Or in the very least, multi tool offensive players. Malik Monk is a weak prospect, IMO.

What if you had future knowledge only on Monk that he would be just as good as Beal or McCollum at the next level and he will play like them. Would you say he's worth taking at 5 or 6 or 7?

[Negrodamus]

I believe his shot needs to be reworked

I'd rather have a shooting coach work on De'Aaron's shot than Lonzo's shot. His mechanics look pretty decent and he's a good enough FT shooter right now.

You wouldn't trust the guy shooting 40% from deep over the guy who can't hit any sort of jumper with consistency?

Lonzo doesn't have a pull-up game based on his mechanics, but at least he has a stepback and a standstill that are already real things. Fox has nothing to hang his hat on as a standstill or off the bounce shooter. I also don't think you're going to change Ball's mechanics besides maybe trying to figure out a way to make the load happen more quickly so this is sort of a weird line to go down as is. I doubt you can quickly change something like making it so he keeps the ball on one side of his body so he can shoot going both ways rather than just one etc. without massive changes, so you just wouldn't make them because he makes shots already.

Regardless, I feel like in terms of probable outcomes, it's way more rare for the non-shooting PG to figure something like that versus someone who already has shots to fall back on.

Guys like Derrick Rose and John Wall were solid at free throws, it doesn't mean they get better as shooters or figure things out eventually (neither ever really has, which is fine as at least Wall has made it work still, but the point is the shooting). There generally needs to be some body of work that hints at it beyond solid free-throw percentage for a PG -- again, because these guys are dribbling and shooting not taking standstill jumpers. The bar is lower for those guys because their other skills offset the shooting issues, so I don't get too hung up on the Fox shooting thing either way. Either you believe in him as a PG who can break a defense like those dudes or you don't. Everything else is sort of relative to fit if you believe that much as any shooting you do get is just a bonus towards him being a MVP talent rather than just an All-Star talent.

Yep, because when Lonzo misses, because his offensive arsenal is so limited, he misses badly. So when he faces a De'Aaron Fox at the next level, he's going to be jacking up terrible threes in order to score. We just had a preview of what he'll be against NBA competition. I wouldn't want to harp on one game though; however, he sucked against Kentucky the first time they played. Check out his numbers against Arizona. How's he going to be against Marcus Smart? Tony Allen?

The only reason to love Lonzo is his passing. Otherwise, you have to hope he's getting open shots at the next level because he's not driving on anyone worth their salt at defense in the next level and he's definitely not getting his shot off easily in ISO situations.

De'Aaron actually has a more traditional form and shooting coaches will know what to do with it. In addition to that, he can drive on anyone in college because he's an elite athlete and that should translate to the next level. Oh yea, and he actually plays defense.