WCQF | (3) Houston Rockets vs Oklahoma City Thunder (6) | HOU 2-1

[Freefloater]

Thanks russ for choking and ball hogging the game away. We will take it.

KEEP SHOOTING RUSS!

[MartinToVaught]

Adams and Oladipo get paid more than any other player on the Rockets team, and was ranked higher than any role player Houston has before the season began.

And none of that matters once the games start being played and we see their actual production on the court. Seems to me that Adams and Oladipo are overpaid and overrated.

[JXL]

Westbrook has no help. Oladipo doesn't do enough to help take pressure off Westbrook's torrid scoring.

Rockets can end this in 4 if they wanted.

[Tritodian]

Adams and Oladipo get paid more than any other player on the Rockets team, and was ranked higher than any role player Houston has before the season began.

And none of that matters once the games start being played and we see their actual production on the court. Seems to me that Adams and Oladipo are overpaid and overrated.

Because they are playing with Westbrook who constantly freezes his teammates out. See how more efficient and better Durant and Waiters turned out to be since they left OKC.

[Impuniti]

It's amazing that every single player is playing worse than last season and everyone just looks the other way as if Westbrook, the crazy chucking and historically usg % has nothing to do with it.

[Tritodian]

It's amazing that every single player is playing worse than last season and everyone just looks the other way as if Westbrook, the crazy chucking and historically usg % has nothing to do with it.

Compare that to Durant and Dion Waiters who since leaving OKC had one of the most efficient scoring years of their careers. See the pattern here?

[Tritodian]

deleted

[E-Balla]

In the same time amount of possessions, Harden passes more and shoots less, and has way less usage rates.

So before the problem was he had the ball too much but now when presented with numbers its that he doesn't pass enough? Ok.

OKC (removing Russ from the equation) is 30.9% on wide open 3s. That's a 46.4 eFG%. Russ has a 47.6 eFG%.

HOU (removing Harden) is 38.3% on wide open 3s. That's a 57.5 eFG%. Harden has a 52.5 eFG%.

Ever think maybe Harden passes more because its a better shot when you have good players and Russ doesn't because his average shot is more efficient than completely uncontested looks by his teammates? At a certain point you have to admit those shots Russ took were bad but his only other decision was another bad shot.

Read my previous post. Adams and Oladipo get paid more than any other player on the Rockets team, and was ranked higher than any role player Houston has before the season began. Why haven't they developed their game more? Is is a coincidence that multiple guys who were considered to be quality players before the season all have remained stagnant or fell off while playing with Westbrook? The problem is you can't expect them to just shoot lights out if they are not in the flow of the game in the first place.

Have you ever played a pick game with an extreme ball-hog? It impacts your game very negatively, and you don't play as well on the few occasions you get to touch the ball, because you've just spent the last 30 minutes watching one guy on your team try to do everything. Everybody goes cold in an environment like that, and that's what's happening to the OKC's role players right now. So the argument that Westbrook's supporting cast suck is kinda like self-fulfilling prophecy. No sh*t, that's what happens when you play with Westbrook. See how efficient Durant has become since he left OKC.

Harden was definitely close enough to close out. That's not a smart play to make the pass. The smart play was to drive though and he took a jumper for no good reason. Its not a good play (its a bad play) but not because he didn't pass to Doug. And Harden isn't a good defender but its not hard to close out on a shooter and I'd be surprised if Doug scored from that position. And in the 3rd one Russ had an open look. We kill Rondo here on RealGM for passing up open looks like that all the damn time but now we're killing Russ for it? Let's not act like everyone isn't taught to take that shot growing up. Its fundamental basketball that you take the open shot and don't over pass unless its to a better shot. If Russ hits that no way its on that video and that's a shot he probably hits 45-50% of the time.

Nothing to argue here if you can't see Westbrook completely missing out on open shooters. No wonder you like Westbrook; you're just as myopic in your vision.

The bottom of those goalposts but be burning hot right now! All I gotta say to that BS you just said is Adams is averaging more ppg than ever before, higher usage, and more points per minute. Taj's usage actually went up in OKC. Oladipo is averaging exactly 17.3 pp36 which is way down from his 17.4 pp36 from last year. Kanter was averaging 18.4 pp36 in Utah and after going to OKC mid season went to 21.7 pp36 and this year he had a higher usage than ever before. There's just no evidence to support what you're saying. Meanwhile Anderson and Lou saw real drops in their production but you're not saying Harden is a ballhog.

Everything you've said about Russ is either a lie or something that applies more to Harden. I'm done here.

[Tritodian]

So before the problem was he had the ball too much but now when presented with numbers its that he doesn't pass enough? Ok.

OKC (removing Russ from the equation) is 30.9% on wide open 3s. That's a 46.4 eFG%. Russ has a 47.6 eFG%.

HOU (removing Harden) is 38.3% on wide open 3s. That's a 57.5 eFG%. Harden has a 52.5 eFG%.

Ever think maybe Harden passes more because its a better shot when you have good players and Russ doesn't because his average shot is more efficient than completely uncontested looks by his teammates? At a certain point you have to admit those shots Russ took were bad but his only other decision was another bad shot.

Read my previous post. Adams and Oladipo get paid more than any other player on the Rockets team, and was ranked higher than any role player Houston has before the season began. Why haven't they developed their game more? Is is a coincidence that multiple guys who were considered to be quality players before the season all have remained stagnant or fell off while playing with Westbrook? The problem is you can't expect them to just shoot lights out if they are not in the flow of the game in the first place.

Have you ever played a pick game with an extreme ball-hog? It impacts your game very negatively, and you don't play as well on the few occasions you get to touch the ball, because you've just spent the last 30 minutes watching one guy on your team try to do everything. Everybody goes cold in an environment like that, and that's what's happening to the OKC's role players right now. So the argument that Westbrook's supporting cast suck is kinda like self-fulfilling prophecy. No sh*t, that's what happens when you play with Westbrook. See how efficient Durant has become since he left OKC.

Harden was definitely close enough to close out. That's not a smart play to make the pass. The smart play was to drive though and he took a jumper for no good reason. Its not a good play (its a bad play) but not because he didn't pass to Doug. And Harden isn't a good defender but its not hard to close out on a shooter and I'd be surprised if Doug scored from that position. And in the 3rd one Russ had an open look. We kill Rondo here on RealGM for passing up open looks like that all the damn time but now we're killing Russ for it? Let's not act like everyone isn't taught to take that shot growing up. Its fundamental basketball that you take the open shot and don't over pass unless its to a better shot. If Russ hits that no way its on that video and that's a shot he probably hits 45-50% of the time.

Nothing to argue here if you can't see Westbrook completely missing out on open shooters. No wonder you like Westbrook; you're just as myopic in your vision.

The bottom of those goalposts but be burning hot right now! All I gotta say to that BS you just said is Adams is averaging more ppg than ever before, higher usage, and more points per minute. Taj's usage actually went up in OKC. Oladipo is averaging exactly 17.3 pp36 which is way down from his 17.4 pp36 from last year. Kanter was averaging 18.4 pp36 in Utah and after going to OKC mid season went to 21.7 pp36 and this year he had a higher usage than ever before. There's just no evidence to support what you're saying. Meanwhile Anderson and Lou saw real drops in their production but you're not saying Harden is a ballhog.

Everything you've said about Russ is either a lie or something that applies more to Harden. I'm done here.

The TS% of Adams, Oladipo, Taj, McDermott, and Kanter all went down or remained stagnant this season playing with Westbrook, as opposed to Durant and Waiters who just had one of the most efficient scoring years of their career since leaving OKC. I'll leave it to you to make the connection. And what is your last point? Houston roles players are not playing as well but Harden has so much help? That makes sense.

[MartinToVaught]

Adams and Oladipo get paid more than any other player on the Rockets team, and was ranked higher than any role player Houston has before the season began.

And none of that matters once the games start being played and we see their actual production on the court. Seems to me that Adams and Oladipo are overpaid and overrated.

Because they are playing with Westbrook who constantly freezes his teammates out. See how more efficient and better Durant and Waiters turned out to be since they left OKC.

No, because they suck. Oladipo was a bust in Orlando before he ever played with Westbrook. I guess it's somehow Westbrook's fault that he washed out of one of the worst teams in the league?

As for Waiters, he couldn't even play with LeBron Freaking James without hogging the ball as much as possible and spending the rest of the time demanding it - and he didn't play a lick of defense either. LeBron is one of the all-time greatest at making his teammates better, and even he couldn't stop Waiters from putting up what were then career lows for him in points per game, assists per game and shooting percentage. Yet we're supposed to believe that Westbrook was holding him back from superstardom?

And one would hope Durant would be more efficient after joining a loaded 73-win team. He was already a historically efficient player while playing with Westbrook, including a rare 50-40-90 season from him in 2012-13.

The sheer level of mental gymnastics and revisionist history required to pretend that Westbrook is holding his supporting cast back instead of the other way around says it all.

[Tritodian]

And none of that matters once the games start being played and we see their actual production on the court. Seems to me that Adams and Oladipo are overpaid and overrated.

Because they are playing with Westbrook who constantly freezes his teammates out. See how more efficient and better Durant and Waiters turned out to be since they left OKC.

No, because they suck. Oladipo was a bust in Orlando before he ever played with Westbrook. I guess it's somehow Westbrook's fault that he washed out of one of the worst teams in the league?

As for Waiters, he couldn't even play with LeBron Freaking James without hogging the ball as much as possible and spending the rest of the time demanding it - and he didn't play a lick of defense either. LeBron is one of the all-time greatest at making his teammates better, and even he couldn't stop Waiters from putting up what were then career lows for him in points per game, assists per game and shooting percentage. Yet we're supposed to believe that Westbrook was holding him back from superstardom?

And one would hope Durant would be more efficient after joining a loaded 73-win team. He was already a historically efficient player while playing with Westbrook, including a rare 50-40-90 season from him in 2012-13.

The sheer level of mental gymnastics and revisionist history required to pretend that Westbrook is holding his supporting cast back instead of the other way around says it all.

So the TS% of Adams, Oladipo, Taj, McDermott, and Kanter all went down or remained stagnant this season playing with Westbrook, as opposed to Durant and Waiters who just had one of the most efficient scoring years of their career since leaving OKC. But this is all just a 'coincidence' according to Westbrook fans. Talk about mental gymnastics. I mean how many more examples do you need? Players' scoring efficiency almost invariably drop off whey they play with Westbrook, and then improves immediately when they leave him. Make the connection yourself.

[E-Balla]

Adams and Oladipo get paid more than any other player on the Rockets team, and was ranked higher than any role player Houston has before the season began.

And none of that matters once the games start being played and we see their actual production on the court. Seems to me that Adams and Oladipo are overpaid and overrated.

Because they are playing with Westbrook who constantly freezes his teammates out. See how more efficient and better Durant and Waiters turned out to be since they left OKC.

Carmelo > Curry.

[Patches Perry]

Harden:
1 NBA Finals
3 WCF*
0 Missed Playoffs

LOL - 3 of the 4 appearances (2 WCF & 1 Finals) you have listed for Harden were as a non-starter non-all star literally backing up Westbrook.

I regret posting my original post, because I resorted to the same form of argumentation that I condemn you guys for, where you can't be a great player if you don't play on a great team, but I found your quoted part comical.

[nbafan38]

With the way some people talk on here you would think the Thunder should trade Westbrook so suddenly Adams, Oladipu and the rest of the squad can become the great players they are meant to be. I am sure that would work out great.

[Patches Perry]

With the way some people talk on here you would think the Thunder should trade Westbrook so suddenly Adams, Oladipu and the rest of the squad can become the great players they are meant to be. I am sure that would work out great.

He just doesn't make teeeammates betterer!!1

[Tritodian]

With the way some people talk on here you would think the Thunder should trade Westbrook so suddenly Adams, Oladipu and the rest of the squad can become the great players they are meant to be. I am sure that would work out great.

Well, it worked out for Durant and Waiters. Also, Taj Gibson went from 54.9 TS% in Chicago to 52.8 TS% in OKC, and McDermott went from 55.5 TS% in Chicago to 55.1 TS% in OKC. Adams, Oladipo, Kanter all had worse scoring efficiency this year compared to the last. Must be a curse or something, because it can't be playing with Westbrook as their leader. No way.

[ken6199]

Harden:
1 NBA Finals
3 WCF*
0 Missed Playoffs

LOL - 3 of the 4 appearances (2 WCF & 1 Finals) you have listed for Harden were as a non-starter non-all star literally backing up Westbrook.

I regret posting my original post, because I resorted to the same form of argumentation that I condemn you guys for, where you can't be a great player if you don't play on a great team, but I found your quoted part comical.

For all series Harden played more minutes than Ibaka. No, he didn't back up Westbrook.

And 6th man of the year has at least as much weight as a non-starting all star player. All star is a popularity contest.

[nbafan38]

With the way some people talk on here you would think the Thunder should trade Westbrook so suddenly Adams, Oladipu and the rest of the squad can become the great players they are meant to be. I am sure that would work out great.

Well, it worked out for Durant and Waiters. Also, Taj Gibson went from 54.9 TS% in Chicago to 52.8 TS% in OKC, and McDermott went from 55.5 TS% in Chicago to 55.1 TS% in OKC. Adams, Oladipo, Kanter all had worse scoring efficiency this year compared to the last. Must be a curse or something, because it can't be playing with Westbrook. No way.

Couldn't some of the Thunder getting worse in terms of effiency maybe have to do with the loss of a superstar Kevin Durant? Couldn't some of Durant being more efficient have to do with playing in GSW system where everyone does well. The waiters one is interesting but he stunk in Cleveland too so I am not sure it's about being away from Westbrook or just having a breakout seaon finally. Blaming Westbrook for everything is an overly simplistic approach. And if he's so bad to play with how come all his current teammates seem to love him.

[Tritodian]

With the way some people talk on here you would think the Thunder should trade Westbrook so suddenly Adams, Oladipu and the rest of the squad can become the great players they are meant to be. I am sure that would work out great.

Well, it worked out for Durant and Waiters. Also, Taj Gibson went from 54.9 TS% in Chicago to 52.8 TS% in OKC, and McDermott went from 55.5 TS% in Chicago to 55.1 TS% in OKC. Adams, Oladipo, Kanter all had worse scoring efficiency this year compared to the last. Must be a curse or something, because it can't be playing with Westbrook. No way.

Couldn't some of the Thunder getting worse in terms of effiency maybe have to do with the loss of a superstar Kevin Durant? Couldn't some of Durant being more efficient have to do with playing in GSW system where everyone does well. The waiters one is interesting but he stunk in Cleveland too so I am not sure it's about being away from Westbrook or just having a breakout seaon finally. Blaming Westbrook for everything is an overly simplistic approach. And if he's so bad to play with how come all his current teammates seem to love him.

And why did Durant leave Westbrook in the first place? People forget that OKC went 7 games with one of the best teams in the NBA history. Durant had a real shot at making this work if Westbrook was such a great player as some of you suggest.

Since joining OKC :

Taj Gibson 54.9 TS% ---> 52.8 TS% (on lower PPG)

McDermott 55.5 TS% ---> 55.1 TS% (on lower PPG)

Oladipo 53.4 TS% ---> 53.4 TS% (on lower PPG)

Compared to last year :

Adams : 62.1 TS% ---> 59.9 TS%

Kanter : 62.6 TS% ---> 59.9 TS%

Since leaving OKC :

Durant 63.4 TS% ---> 65.1 TS%

Waiters 49.2 TS% ---> 50.6 TS% (on much higher PPG)

It's an interesting phenomenon to say the least, but this is exactly what you'd expect from playing with a ball-hog. I know this because I've experienced it myself, as you go cold during the game by just watching one guy on your team trying to make every play. So either this is all just a crazy coincidence, or joining/leaving Westbrook has something to do with it.

[CnG]

Overlooked area about Westbrook having 1 way defensive players around - The roster is constructed to minimise Russ' weakness, defending. You need a solid-good defender next to Russ, there's too many great backcourt pairings that'll cook you if you don't have at least one good defender.

There's not many 3 and D 2 guards floating around, especially not for cheap.

The players around him aren't that offensively talented but they bring other stuff to the table that is necessary.