It's Me Against the World (KP skips exit meeting part 2)

[thebuzzardman]

When did Robin Lopez become such a coveted asset? He's a 10 and 6 guy. That's it, that's who he is. I'd much rather have Holiday, the 2nd round pick, and that salary slot open than Lopez. Yes we signed Noah, but those are two different moves. I just find it funny that when we signed Lopez people were up in arms. Now he's gone and he's such a massive asset we don't have anymore. He was so good this year he lead the Bulls to a .500 season.

No.

People are upset at the domino effect.

You trade Rolo for a score first PG that doesn't fit and is playing for a contract.

To address this imagery hole now at center because you traded Lopez you sign Joakim to a 4 year, fuqed up deal for even more money that you were paying Lopez.

I think more than anything, it's a bad one on Phil because he/his staff didn't recognize what they had in WHG and KOQ, being enough to hold down C. Then that cash goes to depth.

[shtolky]

I just hate the direction we went in last offseason...why we even trying so hard to win now?

We should just be focused on rebuilding/youth.

It was one year. There is no reason we can't focus on that now (yes, even with the Noah deal). We can deal Melo, Lee is tradeable, we have all of our picks going forward, and we start two players under 22.

[Tron Carter]

That score first PG is gone. That score first PG was either going to be very good and help us get to the playoffs, or "help" us get to the lottery. Mission accomplished. Low risk move. What's going to come out of it, a nice tasty lottery pick in the deepest draft in years. And yes, while the Noah deal followed the Lopez trade, let's not act as if the moves were done simultaneously. I doubt he went to Noah and said, oh ok we are signing you, but first I gotta trade Lopez for your buddy. My guess is Noah comes here regardless. Even so, we act as if the Lopez trade was some Knick travesty of epic proportions. Did people not pay attention to the last...oh, 16 years of Knick trades? The Ewing trade, the Curry trade, trading away unprotected 1sts (two of which became Hayward and Aldridge), the Bargnani trade, etc etc. But somehow the Lopez trade is horrible when in fact it was not.

so because the knicks have made terrible trades in the past in retrospect the lopez trade wasn't that bad? GTFO

Nope, you are not understanding what I am saying, clearly. I am saying that people love to say how Knicksy some of our moves are, how Phil has made such horrible trades. Everything is relative. Also, I didn't say the Lopez trade "wasn't that bad." I said it wasn't horrible. Anyone who says the trade is horrible is just blinded by past Knick suffering. There is no comparison between the Lopez deal, which at worst is a wash, and the other trades we have made. In the pantheon of epicly bad trades, even those made over the past 5 years, the Lopez deal barely registers as a blip. Robin Lopez...please.

that deal is anything but a wash and was horrible. we lost a productive big on a bargain contract and a rookie contract for justin holiday and bum ass rose who we are praying we don't resign. phil got raped just like the tyson deal.

[Deeeez Knicks]

The scary part of the Rose deal is that if he did pan out it may have been even worse (resigning him to a big deal)....we still may even resign him.

Wasn't there a 60 plus page thread saying we should extend him? lol.

Yep.

The beginning of the year Rose was fine but he needed to pass more. I wanted stability for the team and figured we could take a PG in the draft wherever to transition.


Boy was I WRONG.

It seems as soon as I became neutral on Rose he started acting up. I have never in my life seen a PG...let me say that again.

I HAVE NEVER IN MY LIFE SEEN A PG BE SO UNWILLING TO PASS.

A piece of me died while watching Rose play PG.

[Tron Carter]

When did Robin Lopez become such a coveted asset? He's a 10 and 6 guy. That's it, that's who he is. I'd much rather have Holiday, the 2nd round pick, and that salary slot open than Lopez. Yes we signed Noah, but those are two different moves. I just find it funny that when we signed Lopez people were up in arms. Now he's gone and he's such a massive asset we don't have anymore. He was so good this year he lead the Bulls to a .500 season.

No.

People are upset at the domino effect.

You trade Rolo for a score first PG that doesn't fit and is playing for a contract.

To address this imagery hole now at center because you traded Lopez you sign Joakim to a 4 year, fuqed up deal for even more money that you were paying Lopez.

I think more than anything, it's a bad one on Phil because he/his staff didn't recognize what they had in WHG and KOQ, being enough to hold down C. Then that cash goes to depth.

i swear to god is koq if still on this roster next season i don't wanna hear schit form anybody about how great phil is. this roster is constructed horribly.

[FutureKnicksGM]

When did Robin Lopez become such a coveted asset? He's a 10 and 6 guy. That's it, that's who he is. I'd much rather have Holiday, the 2nd round pick, and that salary slot open than Lopez. Yes we signed Noah, but those are two different moves. I just find it funny that when we signed Lopez people were up in arms. Now he's gone and he's such a massive asset we don't have anymore. He was so good this year he lead the Bulls to a .500 season.

When's Phil going to lead us to a .500 season?

So this is what we now want, at worst, a .500 season? Being .500 in the NBA is the kiss of death. Look at the Hawks. Constantly winning 43-45 games, a non-factor. I don't care if Lopez would have made us "better" by allowing us to win 38 games instead of 30 (which is laughable). Guess what, the year before Phil arrived, we were a 37 win team, not even .500. Only one first round pick. Kinda tough to build a team in 3 years from 37 wins to something good like that.

Nah about don't trade a decent player who fills a role for a rental who is actually worse(Rolo trade). Fill a whole at sg (we did, Lee is solid), make the playoffs, then use the $35 mill in cap space you have in the offseason to get an actual difference maker when there are good free agents available to take us beyond treadmill status.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I just hate the direction we went in last offseason...why we even trying so hard to win now?

We should just be focused on rebuilding/youth.

It was one year. There is no reason we can't focus on that now (yes, even with the Noah deal). We can deal Melo, Lee is tradeable, we have all of our picks going forward, and we start two players under 22.

Your right. We can and its not too late. But I am not sure if we will. Phil was still talking about winning now.

The Melo trade is gonna be key. Is Phil gonna try to get as many picks and youth as possible, or vets to win now? He seemed to indicate the latter which is scary. May be another Tyson trade where we get a poo poo platter of crappy vets and picks, instead of just picks.

It was just such a wasteful year, when we could have been doing more.

[DOT]

I just hate the direction we went in last offseason...why we even trying so hard to win now?

We should just be focused on rebuilding/youth.

Reportedly, last offseason, Phil asked Melo if he was okay with staying through a rebuild. He said no. Phil then asked him to waive the NTC. He said no. So, Phil decided to say f*** it and go for it one more time, so he traded for Rose (which Melo asked for), and signed Noah (to appease Rose) and Lee.
Of course, this is all speculation, as I don't have the source for this, and I am in no way blaming Melo for Phil f***ing up
Phil's said that he wants to trade Melo, which presumably means he wants to rebuild, but now he has to walk the walk

[JohnWillow]

Tbh One 0.500 season and 7th/8th seed in the playoffs>>>3 straight years of the lottery with 30 win seasons. If yall are talking about winning culture. Play-off experience is big for young guys, it motivates even more.

Tell that to the Warriors who built their team from the draft. Tell that to the Cavs who drafted Kyrie first overall. Tell that to the Clippers who drafted Blake and Deandre. Tell that to the Wizards who drafted Wall and Beal. Man those 20 win seasons for Curry really screwed him up. The losing culture just ruined him. That early playoff experience thing is so overrated. What is the rush? KP in year 2 HAS to make the playoffs? I would MUCH rather have three consecutive lotto picks than one 8th seed at .500, it's laughable to think otherwise.

Warriors- Curry was injured, if he would not be injured there is not a single chance that they got Klay and Barnes and be a dynasty first of all...
Clippers- Yeah give KP a point guard like CP3 and you will have TOP 4 eastern conference team here in NY, + CP3 teamed up with Blake while he was in his 2nd year.
Cavs- Same with Lebron, get Lebron to NY and it's almost guaranteed ECF team.
Wizards- Both injury prone players earlier in their careers.

So what is your point? I could agree with your point that you have to hit the home run with the lottery picks if you want the GSW 2.0 story in New York.

[shtolky]

When's Phil going to lead us to a .500 season?

So this is what we now want, at worst, a .500 season? Being .500 in the NBA is the kiss of death. Look at the Hawks. Constantly winning 43-45 games, a non-factor. I don't care if Lopez would have made us "better" by allowing us to win 38 games instead of 30 (which is laughable). Guess what, the year before Phil arrived, we were a 37 win team, not even .500. Only one first round pick. Kinda tough to build a team in 3 years from 37 wins to something good like that.

Nah about don't trade a decent player who fills a role for a rental who is actually worse(Rolo trade). Fill a whole at sg (we did, Lee is solid), make the playoffs, then use the $35 mill in cap space you have in the offseason to get an actual difference maker when there are good free agents available to take us beyond treadmill status.

I'm confused. You are saying we make the playoffs simply by keeping Lopez? How? Who plays point? And where do we have 35m in space after we sign Lee? I don't understand what you are saying.

[mpharris36]

I just hate the direction we went in last offseason...why we even trying so hard to win now?

We should just be focused on rebuilding/youth.

Deeeeez I 100% agree with your thinking. And if I was told Dolan/generic fan base that shows up to games would allow that I would be with you.

But Dolan has never ever ever been willing to sacrifice his product for the overall success of the franchise. He doesn't care about wins or losses but to be honest people got excited when Rose and Noah came along the average fan saw those names and scooped up tickets bought merch. It's a typical knicks move because its a move we have always made.

The difference though is Phil isn't mortgaging the future to make these moves like we had in the past. We are still developing young players and I think we have realized that needs to be our direction. I'm not in a long shot have said Phil has done some crazy good job. I would replace him tomorrow if I knew for certain we would hire a young up and coming GM with a future outlook. But can you be certain of that.

Instead i put a higher percentage of Allan Houston of one of Dolan cronnies getting the job and being forced to win and win now to get more excitement in the garden. What that means is now we are back to trade draft picks.

I think last offseason was a last gasp to try to make this work with Melo. It obviously failed and now is the time to move on. If something like this happens again this offseason I will gladly jump on the fire phil train. But I don't think our future flexibility really changed much. But I think Phil saw how the young players played at the end of the year and might see something + adding whatever new pieces we do this offseason from trades/draft.

[shtolky]

Tbh One 0.500 season and 7th/8th seed in the playoffs>>>3 straight years of the lottery with 30 win seasons. If yall are talking about winning culture. Play-off experience is big for young guys, it motivates even more.

Tell that to the Warriors who built their team from the draft. Tell that to the Cavs who drafted Kyrie first overall. Tell that to the Clippers who drafted Blake and Deandre. Tell that to the Wizards who drafted Wall and Beal. Man those 20 win seasons for Curry really screwed him up. The losing culture just ruined him. That early playoff experience thing is so overrated. What is the rush? KP in year 2 HAS to make the playoffs? I would MUCH rather have three consecutive lotto picks than one 8th seed at .500, it's laughable to think otherwise.

Warriors- Curry was injured, if he would not be injured there is not a single chance that they got Klay and Barnes and be a dynasty first of all...
Clippers- Yeah give KP a point guard like CP3 and you will have TOP 4 eastern conference team here in NY
Cavs- Same with Lebron, get Lebron to NY and it's almost guaranteed ECF team.
Wizards- Both injury prone players earlier in their careers.

So what is your point? I could agree with your point that you have to hit the home run with the lottery picks if you want the GSW 2.0 story in New York.

Anyone who seriously thinks making ONE playoff appearance as an 8th seed over being in the lottery 3 straight years, drafting young potential stars...I just don't understand how any logical thinking Knicks fan could think that an 8th seed is better than 3 lotto picks. It's unfathomable to me.

My point is every team I listed built in some way through the draft, in a big way.

Warriors - Curry was injured one season in his first four. Those other three years he averaged 77 games played. Steph played in 80 games and 74 games the two years before Klay. He got injured during Klay's rookie season.

Clippers - Again...even without CP3 they still built a huge part of their team through the draft and were able to get Cp3 by trading Gordon who was...a lotto pick.

Cavs - Lebron doesn't go to Cleveland if Kyrie isn't there. He doesn't go if Love isn't there who was traded for Wiggins who was a lotto pick.

Wizards - Their three best players are all lotto picks. Period.


You build through the draft. Why is everyone all of the sudden on Philly's ass now...because they are stacked with youth and lotto picks. Again, anyone who seriously thinks an 8th seed playoff appearance is better than drafting three lotto picks doesn't get it.

[F N 11]

Why is KP making visits to the NBAPA lollllll KP use to be open and honest now he's all coded like Melo.

Stop.

Maybe he's fed up with Phil, maybe he's not.

Maybe this is who he is, maybe it's not.

Melo 100% lol

[Deeeez Knicks]

I just hate the direction we went in last offseason...why we even trying so hard to win now?

We should just be focused on rebuilding/youth.

Deeeeez I 100% agree with your thinking. And if I was told Dolan/generic fan base that shows up to games would allow that I would be with you.

But Dolan has never ever ever been willing to sacrifice his product for the overall success of the franchise. He doesn't care about wins or losses but to be honest people got excited when Rose and Noah came along the average fan saw those names and scooped up tickets bought merch. It's a typical knicks move because its a move we have always made.

The difference though is Phil isn't mortgaging the future to make these moves like we had in the past. We are still developing young players and I think we have realized that needs to be our direction. I'm not in a long shot have said Phil has done some crazy good job. I would replace him tomorrow if I knew for certain we would hire a young up and coming GM with a future outlook. But can you be certain of that.

Instead i put a higher percentage of Allan Houston of one of Dolan cronnies getting the job and being forced to win and win now to get more excitement in the garden. What that means is now we are back to trade draft picks.

I think last offseason was a last gasp to try to make this work with Melo. It obviously failed and now is the time to move on. If something like this happens again this offseason I will gladly jump on the fire phil train. But I don't think our future flexibility really changed much. But I think Phil saw how the young players played at the end of the year and might see something + adding whatever new pieces we do this offseason from trades/draft.

I dislike Dolan as much as anyone, but I really can't blame him here. All signs point to Phil having full control, and this is the direction he is putting us in. Even in the last press conference he went over it and was trying to justify the moves. A lot of it comes down to justifying the triangle too, which is pushing Phil to try to win now. Noah is the perfect example of this. He would have been the perfect triangle big a few years ago, but its obvious he's not the same player. Its clouding Phil's judgment.

I am not calling for Phil to be fired yet since I am with you on that I doubt we will hire someone better. I really do appreciate the not trading picks part, and like what we have done in the draft. I just would like to see more of those type moves. The next big decision is the Melo trade, and hopefully everyone can move on. But I want to see a return of picks/youth and not bum ass vets. Phil's talk of getting substantial players and winning now and even resigning Rose does scare me.

[FutureKnicksGM]

So this is what we now want, at worst, a .500 season? Being .500 in the NBA is the kiss of death. Look at the Hawks. Constantly winning 43-45 games, a non-factor. I don't care if Lopez would have made us "better" by allowing us to win 38 games instead of 30 (which is laughable). Guess what, the year before Phil arrived, we were a 37 win team, not even .500. Only one first round pick. Kinda tough to build a team in 3 years from 37 wins to something good like that.

Nah about don't trade a decent player who fills a role for a rental who is actually worse(Rolo trade). Fill a whole at sg (we did, Lee is solid), make the playoffs, then use the $35 mill in cap space you have in the offseason to get an actual difference maker when there are good free agents available to take us beyond treadmill status.

I'm confused. You are saying we make the playoffs simply by keeping Lopez? How? Who plays point? And where do we have 35m in space after we sign Lee? I don't understand what you are saying.

Rolo & Jose = Rose's salary for the last season right? Keep Rolo & Jose.

We signed Lee.. He was solid, an upgrade over Afflalo. So sign him.

Then we had enough cap for Jennings and Noah. $22 million plus. Instead of locking it up in Noah, you sign a pg and some bench scorers on 1 year deals.

That squad makes the playoffs.

Roll over to next off season you only have Melo, Rolo, Lee, KP, Willy, our 17 pick on the books (assume we would trade KOQ for some future pick along the way). That's $60 mill max on the books. Cap is $101 million (and projected more last year). Plenty to sign someone good and therefore not be a treadmill team. We wouldn't be the Hawks as we could have improved greatly. Don't sign anyone? Fine blow it up. But there was definitely potential to be something.

[mpharris36]

Rolo & Jose = Rose's salary for the last season right? Keep Rolo & Jose.

We signed Lee.. He was solid, an upgrade over Afflalo. So sign him.

Then we had enough cap for Jennings and Noah. $22 million plus. Instead of locking it up in Noah, you sign a pg and some bench scorers on 1 year deals.

That squad makes the playoffs.

Roll over to next off season you only have Melo, Rolo, Lee, KP, Willy, our 17 pick on the books (assume we would trade KOQ for some future pick along the way). That's $60 mill max on the books. Cap is $101 million (and projected more last year). Plenty to sign someone good and therefore not be a treadmill team. We wouldn't be the Hawks as we could have improved greatly. Don't sign anyone? Fine blow it up. But there was definitely potential to be something.

what FA point guard were you signing? who was on the market?

also rolling over next offseason how do you know Willy or KOQ develop the way they do with Lopez playing the entire season at 30+ minutes a night. Noah injury (the signing backfired) but you can't deny the opportunity led to two really strong seasons from WHG and KOQ. That should absolutely not justify a deal...however things happen for a reason...we did benefit from Noahs injury in that sense.

[thebuzzardman]

Tbh One 0.500 season and 7th/8th seed in the playoffs>>>3 straight years of the lottery with 30 win seasons. If yall are talking about winning culture. Play-off experience is big for young guys, it motivates even more.

Tell that to the Warriors who built their team from the draft. Tell that to the Cavs who drafted Kyrie first overall. Tell that to the Clippers who drafted Blake and Deandre. Tell that to the Wizards who drafted Wall and Beal. Man those 20 win seasons for Curry really screwed him up. The losing culture just ruined him. That early playoff experience thing is so overrated. What is the rush? KP in year 2 HAS to make the playoffs? I would MUCH rather have three consecutive lotto picks than one 8th seed at .500, it's laughable to think otherwise.

Warriors- Curry was injured, if he would not be injured there is not a single chance that they got Klay and Barnes and be a dynasty first of all...
Clippers- Yeah give KP a point guard like CP3 and you will have TOP 4 eastern conference team here in NY, + CP3 teamed up with Blake while he was in his 2nd year.
Cavs- Same with Lebron, get Lebron to NY and it's almost guaranteed ECF team.
Wizards- Both injury prone players earlier in their careers.

So what is your point? I could agree with your point that you have to hit the home run with the lottery picks if you want the GSW 2.0 story in New York.

Yes. And if you don't hit the home run, you keep tanking and trying. Why? Because the that's really the only way to successfully rebuild. Tank and picks or not that good and luck and picks (skill in scouting is necessary in both standings).

NBA has a problem. Henike exposed it with his "Emperor Has No Clothes" approach. I know the top 7 teams just weren't that good, but you can't tell me that half of them weren't just mailing it in. If not all.

[shtolky]

Nah about don't trade a decent player who fills a role for a rental who is actually worse(Rolo trade). Fill a whole at sg (we did, Lee is solid), make the playoffs, then use the $35 mill in cap space you have in the offseason to get an actual difference maker when there are good free agents available to take us beyond treadmill status.

I'm confused. You are saying we make the playoffs simply by keeping Lopez? How? Who plays point? And where do we have 35m in space after we sign Lee? I don't understand what you are saying.

Rolo & Jose = Rose's salary for the last season right? Keep Rolo & Jose.

We signed Lee.. He was solid, an upgrade over Afflalo. So sign him.

Then we had enough cap for Jennings and Noah. $22 million plus. Instead of locking it up in Noah, you sign a pg and some bench scorers on 1 year deals.

That squad makes the playoffs.

Roll over to next off season you only have Melo, Rolo, Lee, KP, Willy, our 17 pick on the books (assume we would trade KOQ for some future pick along the way). That's $60 mill max on the books. Cap is $101 million (and projected more last year). Plenty to sign someone good and therefore not be a treadmill team. We wouldn't be the Hawks as we could have improved greatly. Don't sign anyone? Fine blow it up. But there was definitely potential to be something.

Agree to disagree. I don't see us going from 31 wins to 42 wins simply by keeping Lopez and adding some random PG and random bench guys. Who is this PG we were supposed to sign that wouldn't have cost a fortune? I would much rather be where we are than competing for a chance at the 7th or 8th seed. To each his own. I think we are fine, the hyperbole is a bit much around here. Just have to focus on nailing this draft. We can all agree we have been bad this decade and yet this draft is only the second in which we've had a lotto pick.

[NYKBaller]

He has a documentary about his life coming out...would that happen if any other market?

Probably not, considering this will be the first documentary about a basketball player ever.

Name one about a 21 year old nba player on a non playoff team after two seasons. He had a porzingod documentary last year. I'll wait nimrod

[Sark]

He has a documentary about his life coming out...would that happen if any other market?

Probably not, considering this will be the first documentary about a basketball player ever.

Name one about a 21 year old nba player on a non playoff team after two seasons. He had a porzingod documentary last year. I'll wait nimrod

Watch on YouTube

Clearly wouldn't have happened without the super strong Ohio market.