Playoffs 2017: WC First Round - Houston Rockets (3) vs Oklahoma City Thunder (6)

[NaturalThunder]

Will admit I do get some comedy in this series, Harden fans on full alert, he plays like trash and they still win. Quick, everyone mention how great OKC's players are! Oh and making teammates better!

Clutch Fans is pretty insufferable. I haven't visited that site in a year or two but I know it used to come off as a pretty big cesspool of stupidity. Most RealGM Rockets fans aren't making a good name for the Rockets internet fanbase, either. I mean there are some who actually watched yesterday's game and are still trying to make a legitimate claim/argument that Westbrook has a better supporting cast.

One thing that hasn't been talked about enough, either, is the huge coaching advantage the Rockets have. Not that D'Antoni is a brilliant coach, athough he is a very good coach and a brilliant offensive mind, but Donovan is so comically bad at his job that there's still a large gap between him and D'Antoni.

[NaturalThunder]

At least Rodger Sherman gets it...

Westbrook played an incredible game, logging his third consecutive triple-double in the series, finishing with 35 points, 14 rebounds, and 14 assists. The last player with three straight playoff triple-doubles? Wilt Chamberlain. (He was good, apparently.) But the team was minus-18 in the nine minutes Westbrook didn’t play.

To summarize, Oklahoma City was 14 points better than the Rockets when Westbrook was on the floor, and Westbrook played for almost the entire game. How things played out in Game 4 was a neat summary of the season for both teams: Harden has a great supporting cast, and Westbrook has himself.

https://theringer.com/2017-nba-playoffs-houston-rockets-oklahoma-city-thunder-game-4-andre-roberson-russell-westbrook-nene-cf1340f523b2

[NaturalThunder]

Thinking about the whole -18 in nine minutes...

Isn't some of that coaching? I mean, sure, it greatly magnifies how hilariously bad the roster (sans-Westbrook) is as a whole, but couldn't Donovan have brought Westbrook back 60-90 seconds sooner each half? That's just 2-3 more minutes, split between each half, for Russ. Not ideal, but maybe it's enough to still keep OKC at a +14ish clip with Westbrook and instead of being -18 in nine minutes without him, we're only -10 or -12 in 6-7 minutes without him.

And really, it's mostly about how hilariously awful our backup PG situation is. You cannot expect to make any kind of playoff noise if you do not have a second player capable of coming in, stemming the tide, and at least semi-capably running the offense while creating shots for others and himself. We have one such player: Russell Westbrook. That's it and that's turning out to be our biggest downfall in the postseason. I mean Cole and Christon haven't been solely responsible for the eye-poppingly bad +/- numbers while they were on the floor and Westbrook was on the bench, but they are the biggest reason why it's been so bad.

That's why I feel like Presti should be under some pretty heavy scrutiny from the media today. We're so heavily reliant on Westbrook in part because we don't have another PG who's even kinda sorta close to being an NBA caliber player, at least not on a playoff team. In comparison, and it's more important now than ever in today's space-and-pace, shoot a lot of 3s NBA, the Rockets have four players who can create their own shot and/or create for others in Harden, Lou Williams, Beverley, and Gordon.

[Andre Roberstan]

Thinking about the whole -18 in nine minutes...

Isn't some of that coaching? I mean, sure, it greatly magnifies how hilariously bad the roster (sans-Westbrook) is as a whole, but couldn't Donovan have brought Westbrook back 60-90 seconds sooner each half? That's just 2-3 more minutes, split between each half, for Russ. Not ideal, but maybe it's enough to still keep OKC at a +14ish clip with Westbrook and instead of being -18 in nine minutes without him, we're only -10 or -12 in 6-7 minutes without him.

I thought that too, but Game 2 he brought him back early and Russ was visibly gassed. I think you have to sit him as long as you dare.

[Pillendreher]

Thinking about the whole -18 in nine minutes...

Isn't some of that coaching? I mean, sure, it greatly magnifies how hilariously bad the roster (sans-Westbrook) is as a whole, but couldn't Donovan have brought Westbrook back 60-90 seconds sooner each half? That's just 2-3 more minutes, split between each half, for Russ. Not ideal, but maybe it's enough to still keep OKC at a +14ish clip with Westbrook and instead of being -18 in nine minutes without him, we're only -10 or -12 in 6-7 minutes without him.

And really, it's mostly about how hilariously awful our backup PG situation is. You cannot expect to make any kind of playoff noise if you do not have a second player capable of coming in, stemming the tide, and at least semi-capably running the offense while creating shots for others and himself. We have one such player: Russell Westbrook. That's it and that's turning out to be our biggest downfall in the postseason. I mean Cole and Christon haven't been solely responsible for the eye-poppingly bad +/- numbers while they were on the floor and Westbrook was on the bench, but they are the biggest reason why it's been so bad.

That's why I feel like Presti should be under some pretty heavy scrutiny from the media today. We're so heavily reliant on Westbrook in part because we don't have another PG who's even kinda sorta close to being an NBA caliber player, at least not on a playoff team. In comparison, and it's more important now than ever in today's space-and-pace, shoot a lot of 3s NBA, the Rockets have four players who can create their own shot and/or create for others in Harden, Lou Williams, Beverley, and Gordon.

It's not just the backup PG tho. You can't play Kanter. You just can't. We're not capable to defend and it's not even close.

Presti should get fired. And I really hope he will. Hopefully he takes Billy with him. They can grow old together.

[Pillendreher]

Thinking about the whole -18 in nine minutes...

Isn't some of that coaching? I mean, sure, it greatly magnifies how hilariously bad the roster (sans-Westbrook) is as a whole, but couldn't Donovan have brought Westbrook back 60-90 seconds sooner each half? That's just 2-3 more minutes, split between each half, for Russ. Not ideal, but maybe it's enough to still keep OKC at a +14ish clip with Westbrook and instead of being -18 in nine minutes without him, we're only -10 or -12 in 6-7 minutes without him.

I thought that too, but Game 2 he brought him back early and Russ was visibly gassed. I think you have to sit him as long as you dare.

He was visibly gassed yesterday as well. He was tired in the 3rd. I knew he couldn't win this one on his own. Too bad nobody else stepped up.

[bondom34]

Read on Twitter

This sucks.

[Thundershock88]

It sucks to know we have been so close to being up 3-1 ourselves. I know it's easy to be down, but I do think this is a good look for our future. We are competing with one of the most potent offenses ever. We just can't overcome, the refs, poor bench play, and poor coaching. There's no way to do so with this roster.

[Pillendreher]

Once again great stuff by Matt Craig:

http://dailythunder.com/wake-up-call-the-thunder-are-having-an-identity-crisis/

When the game is flowing and everyone is playing free there’s no problem. Guys are running up and down, being aggressive on offense and defense, and pitching in however they can. It’s a beautiful, chaotic mess. Then playoff crunch time hits and the game completely changes. Each possession feels like the most important of the season, and everyone tenses up. Around Westbrook are four players who desperately want to help, but have no idea how.

Are we a defensive-minded grit-n-grind team or a fastbreaking speed demon? A team that plays small and shoots threes or one that plays big and dominates the glass?

In the course of a game we try on all of the various hats, though none seems to fit quite right. Versatility is a privilege afforded only to teams far more talented than the Thunder. This roster’s mix of skills is less a cornucopia and more a mosh pit.

The truth of the statement “Russell Westbrook has no supporting cast!” isn’t that every player on the roster is worthless, but rather that they’re too predictable. While a majority of the Thunder’s roster has one skill to hang their hat on, few have skill sets that are well-rounded enough to shoulder large responsibility. Having just one bankable skill isn’t as easily exposed in the regular season, but with the familiarity of the playoffs it becomes a harbinger of death.

When Billy Donovan makes a substitution, I’m not sure the reserves know what they’re being called on to do. While the Rockets’ short three-man bench of Nenê, Eric Gordon, and Lou Williams provided a spark in Game 4 and ended plus-24, plus-18, and plus-10 respectively, the Thunder’s five reserves were all net negatives.

The closest thing to a guiding principle we have is Westbrook. He is the team identity. So when he gives the ball up in crunch time, seemingly every pass is met with a hurried return pass back to him. There’s a general sense of confusion around Thunder crunch time possessions that feels like the equivalent of a “what do I do with my hands” moment as you’re taking a picture. When someone else on the team takes a shot or tries to make a play, it just feels out of place.

In Game 5, the Thunder will likely look like an excellent team early, out-hustling and out-playing the Rockets. They may even build a lead, and that lead may even last until the third or fourth quarter.

But when Houston makes their run, which they will, and the game gets close in crunch time, the Thunder will need to figure out what their identity is if a win is in the cards.

[bondom34]

Net rating with Russ on court and Harden on court, game by game:

Game 1: -30.8
Game 2: +15.1
Game 3: +7.0
Game 4: +8.9

[Pillendreher]

Net rating with Russ on court and Harden on court, game by game:

Game 1: -30.8
Game 2: +15.1
Game 3: +7.0
Game 4: +8.9

'You clearly can't win with Russell Westbrook. The Thunder should have traded him for Rajon Rondo when they had the chance'

PS: This obsession with 4th quarters by some people in this series is mindboggling.

[bondom34]

PS: This obsession with 4th quarters by Harden fans in this series is mindboggling.

[Pillendreher]

PS: This obsession with 4th quarters by Harden fans in this series is mindboggling.

[sleestak33]

Thinking about the whole -18 in nine minutes...

Isn't some of that coaching? I mean, sure, it greatly magnifies how hilariously bad the roster (sans-Westbrook) is as a whole, but couldn't Donovan have brought Westbrook back 60-90 seconds sooner each half? That's just 2-3 more minutes, split between each half, for Russ. Not ideal, but maybe it's enough to still keep OKC at a +14ish clip with Westbrook and instead of being -18 in nine minutes without him, we're only -10 or -12 in 6-7 minutes without him.

And really, it's mostly about how hilariously awful our backup PG situation is. You cannot expect to make any kind of playoff noise if you do not have a second player capable of coming in, stemming the tide, and at least semi-capably running the offense while creating shots for others and himself. We have one such player: Russell Westbrook. That's it and that's turning out to be our biggest downfall in the postseason. I mean Cole and Christon haven't been solely responsible for the eye-poppingly bad +/- numbers while they were on the floor and Westbrook was on the bench, but they are the biggest reason why it's been so bad.

That's why I feel like Presti should be under some pretty heavy scrutiny from the media today. We're so heavily reliant on Westbrook in part because we don't have another PG who's even kinda sorta close to being an NBA caliber player, at least not on a playoff team. In comparison, and it's more important now than ever in today's space-and-pace, shoot a lot of 3s NBA, the Rockets have four players who can create their own shot and/or create for others in Harden, Lou Williams, Beverley, and Gordon.

It's not just the backup PG tho. You can't play Kanter. You just can't. We're not capable to defend and it's not even close.

Presti should get fired. And I really hope he will. Hopefully he takes Billy with him. They can grow old together.

Kanter should have been starting in this series and getting 30+ minutes per game. Capela can't guard him whatsoever and he easily could have averaged 20/10. He would give up some points defensively but he would more than make up for it with his scoring and rebounding, specifically on the offensive glass where he averages over 4 per game. Those are like steals and are invaluable because they give the team an extra possession. I just find it amazing that Kanter gets criticized for his defense yet Roberson gives up 37, 35 and 44 points to Harden and is praised for playing good defense...that's atrocious defense. Adams in game 4 got destroyed by Nene who went 12-12 and had 28 points and 10 rebounds in only 25 minutes yet he doesn't get one bit of criticism on here. Kanter's job is to score and rebound and his per 36 minute averages are 24/11 which is top 5 amongst bigs in the NBA. The criticism he continues to get is asinine.

[Pillendreher]

Thinking about the whole -18 in nine minutes...

Isn't some of that coaching? I mean, sure, it greatly magnifies how hilariously bad the roster (sans-Westbrook) is as a whole, but couldn't Donovan have brought Westbrook back 60-90 seconds sooner each half? That's just 2-3 more minutes, split between each half, for Russ. Not ideal, but maybe it's enough to still keep OKC at a +14ish clip with Westbrook and instead of being -18 in nine minutes without him, we're only -10 or -12 in 6-7 minutes without him.

And really, it's mostly about how hilariously awful our backup PG situation is. You cannot expect to make any kind of playoff noise if you do not have a second player capable of coming in, stemming the tide, and at least semi-capably running the offense while creating shots for others and himself. We have one such player: Russell Westbrook. That's it and that's turning out to be our biggest downfall in the postseason. I mean Cole and Christon haven't been solely responsible for the eye-poppingly bad +/- numbers while they were on the floor and Westbrook was on the bench, but they are the biggest reason why it's been so bad.

That's why I feel like Presti should be under some pretty heavy scrutiny from the media today. We're so heavily reliant on Westbrook in part because we don't have another PG who's even kinda sorta close to being an NBA caliber player, at least not on a playoff team. In comparison, and it's more important now than ever in today's space-and-pace, shoot a lot of 3s NBA, the Rockets have four players who can create their own shot and/or create for others in Harden, Lou Williams, Beverley, and Gordon.

It's not just the backup PG tho. You can't play Kanter. You just can't. We're not capable to defend and it's not even close.

Presti should get fired. And I really hope he will. Hopefully he takes Billy with him. They can grow old together.

Kanter should have been starting in this series and getting 30+ minutes per game. Capela can't guard him whatsoever and he easily could have averaged 20/10. He would give up some points defensively but he would more than make up for it with his scoring and rebounding, specifically on the offensive glass where he averages over 4 per game. Those are like steals and are invaluable because they give the team an extra possession. I just find it amazing that Kanter gets criticized for his defense yet Roberson gives up 37, 35 and 44 points to Harden and is praised for playing good defense...that's atrocious defense. Adams in game 4 got destroyed by Nene who went 12-12 and had 28 points and 10 rebounds in only 25 minutes yet he doesn't get one bit of criticism on here. Kanter's job is to score and rebound and his per 36 minute averages are 24/11 which is top 5 amongst bigs in the NBA. The criticism he continues to get is asinine.

Get yourself some help man. You really do need it.

[ThunderBolt]

Thinking about the whole -18 in nine minutes...

Isn't some of that coaching? I mean, sure, it greatly magnifies how hilariously bad the roster (sans-Westbrook) is as a whole, but couldn't Donovan have brought Westbrook back 60-90 seconds sooner each half? That's just 2-3 more minutes, split between each half, for Russ. Not ideal, but maybe it's enough to still keep OKC at a +14ish clip with Westbrook and instead of being -18 in nine minutes without him, we're only -10 or -12 in 6-7 minutes without him.

And really, it's mostly about how hilariously awful our backup PG situation is. You cannot expect to make any kind of playoff noise if you do not have a second player capable of coming in, stemming the tide, and at least semi-capably running the offense while creating shots for others and himself. We have one such player: Russell Westbrook. That's it and that's turning out to be our biggest downfall in the postseason. I mean Cole and Christon haven't been solely responsible for the eye-poppingly bad +/- numbers while they were on the floor and Westbrook was on the bench, but they are the biggest reason why it's been so bad.

That's why I feel like Presti should be under some pretty heavy scrutiny from the media today. We're so heavily reliant on Westbrook in part because we don't have another PG who's even kinda sorta close to being an NBA caliber player, at least not on a playoff team. In comparison, and it's more important now than ever in today's space-and-pace, shoot a lot of 3s NBA, the Rockets have four players who can create their own shot and/or create for others in Harden, Lou Williams, Beverley, and Gordon.

It's not just the backup PG tho. You can't play Kanter. You just can't. We're not capable to defend and it's not even close.

Presti should get fired. And I really hope he will. Hopefully he takes Billy with him. They can grow old together.

Kanter should have been starting in this series and getting 30+ minutes per game. Capela can't guard him whatsoever and he easily could have averaged 20/10. He would give up some points defensively but he would more than make up for it with his scoring and rebounding, specifically on the offensive glass where he averages over 4 per game. Those are like steals and are invaluable because they give the team an extra possession. I just find it amazing that Kanter gets criticized for his defense yet Roberson gives up 37, 35 and 44 points to Harden and is praised for playing good defense...that's atrocious defense. Adams in game 4 got destroyed by Nene who went 12-12 and had 28 points and 10 rebounds in only 25 minutes yet he doesn't get one bit of criticism on here. Kanter's job is to score and rebound and his per 36 minute averages are 24/11 which is top 5 amongst bigs in the NBA. The criticism he continues to get is asinine.

Welcome to the boards! I thought I would introduce myself because you've obviously never read any of my posts about Adams.

[OkcMagic]

People really want presti gone? A top 5 gm? Hmm okay Lmap


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hardenASG13]

People really want presti gone? A top 5 gm? Hmm okay Lmap


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why is he a top 5 gm? He struck gold and then lost it all bringing in projects and washed up vets to a team that was ready to win the last 4-5 years. Now is likely going to be left with nothing, except 2 centers, a wing who can't shoot, and an average to below average starting 2 guard. He had Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook and James harden.

[ThunderBolt]

I don't necessarily want Presti fired. I would like to see evidence of him making changes to keep up with the times. I like that he keeps our roster young. However there also comes a time where you need a few more vets. I think that time is now.

[Pillendreher]

I really hope Donovan stops the Cole/Christon/Kanter nonsense and just goes all in:

Westbrook 44/Dipo 4
Dipo 36/Abrines 8
Roberson 42/DMD 6
Gibson 34/Grant 10/DMD 4
Adams 42/Gibson 6