Discuss Ernie Grunfeld's GM skills here (Part 2)

[BigA]

Oops. Posted in wrong thread...

[milellie111]

Grunfeld has built a contender and the Wizards can take Cleveland to a 7 game series. Nothing else to discuss

[montestewart]

Time to lock this thread

[tontoz]

You know what they say about it being better to be lucky than good. I think this is true in the NBA more than other sports as well.

I think that Ernie is actually mediocre. There are guys who are clearly better. There are guys who are clearly worse.

Initially I thought it would be pretty hard to make a case for teams/GMs that are worse, but the LA Lakers and Knicks seem that way. Sacramento is a dumpster fire and got a horrible return on Cousins. There are teams that are horrible, but many of them are that way because of past GMs.

Top-level free agency tends to be a crap shoot. Imagine if EG had a little more luck and Horford had chosen to sign with the Wizards. He might have been able to look like a good GM. It also would have saved him from being able to sign Nicholson.

No GM has been as bad as EG without getting fired at least once over a 14 year span.

[Kanyewest]

You know what they say about it being better to be lucky than good. I think this is true in the NBA more than other sports as well.

I think that Ernie is actually mediocre. There are guys who are clearly better. There are guys who are clearly worse.

Initially I thought it would be pretty hard to make a case for teams/GMs that are worse, but the LA Lakers and Knicks seem that way. Sacramento is a dumpster fire and got a horrible return on Cousins. There are teams that are horrible, but many of them are that way because of past GMs.

Top-level free agency tends to be a crap shoot. Imagine if EG had a little more luck and Horford had chosen to sign with the Wizards. He might have been able to look like a good GM. It also would have saved him from being able to sign Nicholson.

No GM has been as bad as EG without getting fired at least once over a 14 year span.

The other owners in the league clearly are not as smart as Ted.

[BigA]

Time to lock this thread

Welcome to Hell. We will be here discussing Ernie Grunfeld's GM Skills for all of eternity.

[payitforward]

Here's a way to look at the skills of our fearless leader: since the end of last season, Ernie has signed 9 FAs, 2 of which he's already traded (along with a R1 draft pick) for 2 other players. In addition he acquired 1 player for a future R2 pick.

That's a total of 12 players. All of them have combined to log 4034 minutes this season. Most of those minutes at a very low level of productivity. In fact, only Mahinmi has provided above average productivity overall, & in his case it's only been for 400+ minutes. For that level of FA productivity, we have given up 2 draft picks & hamstrung our salary flexibility.

[closg00]

Ugh!! Revisionist puff-piece on Ernie.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/wizards-insider/wp/2017/04/14/wizards-ernie-grunfeld-remained-patient-and-now-hes-reaping-the-results/


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[payitforward]

Ernie has been patient... with himself! No matter how many fool moves he's made, he's always known that if he made enough moves some of them would be good.

And, it's true, a few of them have been good. Out of 20+ picks in the last 7 drafts, for example, he's made 5 good ones (Wall, Booker, Beal, Porter, Oubre). Admittedly, he let 1 of them walk for nothing. & 1 of them tho promising hasn't proved anything yet. & in 2 of the other 3 cases he was helped by the ping pong balls. But still...

And, out of I don't know how many trades he's made since 2010, it's undeniable that one of them brought us an actual team asset (Gortat). He had to give too much to make it happen, because of his own poor planning, but still...

Then there are his FA signings.

But, hey, lets not choose this moment to be critical. Lets enjoy our good regular season & get behind the guys for the playoffs.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

That WaPo piece almost killed me. Stunning in its revisionist, reductivist bs. The "plan" is a joke. The ping pong balls and selling for pennies on the dollar got us Wall, Beal and OP. All the rest is replacement level or below filler.

[payitforward]

Probably we should lay off this thread while we're in the playoffs -- bad karma.

That's even though praise for Ernie in the media is enough to make a person sick.

It's been a rare experience over the years to watch the Wizards in the playoffs. I don't want to be doing it while thinking about what a colossal bum Ernie is, what a bottom-tier GM he is -- & with a lifetime contract to boot!

I don't want to think about that, but... I just did! blast it! So I'm hoping we ignore the time-serving, boot-licking doctor of uselessness who runs this franchise & just think about John, Brad, Otto, Marcin & the boys as they battle forward! Who knows? Maybe we'll be really lucky!

[queridiculo]

You know, this whole situation looks all too familiar.

Last time the Wizards had a midseason run that put Washington in the conversation as one of the best teams in the east, rather than recognize the rosters flaw and making moves to address them, Grunfeld doubled down on mediocre and operated under the assumption that this brief moment at the top was indicative of the rosters potential.

We're sort of in the same place that we were back then in January when Washington's roster around Arenas, Butler and Jamison was on top of a weak eastern conference.

The flaws of the roster were just as evident then as they are right now and yet again the conversation isn't about how Grunfeld sabotaged this teams longterm prospects with his 2016 offseason but how he formed the team that vaulted Washington back into prominence.

It's sickening and when the Wizards eventually fizzle out in the playoffs Grunfeld is once again going to be let off the hook and we'll be stuck with Ernie's latest iteration of good but not great.

[FAH1223]

You know, this whole situation looks all too familiar.

Last time the Wizards had a midseason run that put Washington in the conversation as one of the best teams in the east, rather than recognize the rosters flaw and making moves to address them, Grunfeld doubled down on mediocre and operated under the assumption that this brief moment at the top was indicative of the rosters potential.

We're sort of in the same place that we were back then in January when Washington's roster around Arenas, Butler and Jamison was on top of a weak eastern conference.

The flaws of the roster were just as evident then as they are right now and yet again the conversation isn't about how Grunfeld sabotaged this teams longterm prospects with his 2016 offseason but how he formed the team that vaulted Washington back into prominence.

It's sickening and when the Wizards eventually fizzle out in the playoffs Grunfeld is once again going to be let off the hook and we'll be stuck with Ernie's latest iteration of good but not great.

10 years later and its the same situation

[Illmatic12]

You know, this whole situation looks all too familiar.

Last time the Wizards had a midseason run that put Washington in the conversation as one of the best teams in the east, rather than recognize the rosters flaw and making moves to address them, Grunfeld doubled down on mediocre and operated under the assumption that this brief moment at the top was indicative of the rosters potential.

We're sort of in the same place that we were back then in January when Washington's roster around Arenas, Butler and Jamison was on top of a weak eastern conference.

The flaws of the roster were just as evident then as they are right now and yet again the conversation isn't about how Grunfeld sabotaged this teams longterm prospects with his 2016 offseason but how he formed the team that vaulted Washington back into prominence.

It's sickening and when the Wizards eventually fizzle out in the playoffs Grunfeld is once again going to be let off the hook and we'll be stuck with Ernie's latest iteration of good but not great.

10 years later and its the same situation

Can one of you guys explain how it's the same situation? I don't think it is but interested to hear one of you elaborate on this .

[nate33]

You know, this whole situation looks all too familiar.

Last time the Wizards had a midseason run that put Washington in the conversation as one of the best teams in the east, rather than recognize the rosters flaw and making moves to address them, Grunfeld doubled down on mediocre and operated under the assumption that this brief moment at the top was indicative of the rosters potential.

We're sort of in the same place that we were back then in January when Washington's roster around Arenas, Butler and Jamison was on top of a weak eastern conference.

The flaws of the roster were just as evident then as they are right now and yet again the conversation isn't about how Grunfeld sabotaged this teams longterm prospects with his 2016 offseason but how he formed the team that vaulted Washington back into prominence.

It's sickening and when the Wizards eventually fizzle out in the playoffs Grunfeld is once again going to be let off the hook and we'll be stuck with Ernie's latest iteration of good but not great.

You are rewriting history a bit.

The best Arenas-era team won just 45 games. And Grunfeld didn't exactly double down on the roster. He actually let guys like Hughes and Jeffries walk rather than overpay them to keep together a non-contending team. That roster was definitely flawed because it couldn't play defense, and I don't think anyone really thought they were a contender. It was a team always in need of one good two-way big man instead of the no-D Jamison at PF and the no-O Haywood at center.

EG did sacrifice the future for "now" a few years later with that roster when he traded the #6 pick for Miller, but it wasn't perceived as a final move to be a contender. It was a move that favored mediocrity over rebuilding.

This team is different. We won 49 games, not 45, and we did it with our star player only 26 and two other starters at age 23. Also, EG trading away a future pick wasn't made out of a misguided belief that we are ready to contend. That was a salary cap move.

[Dat2U]

You are rewriting history a bit.

The best Arenas-era team won just 45 games. And Grunfeld didn't exactly double down on the roster. He actually let guys like Hughes and Jeffries walk rather than overpay them to keep together a non-contending team. That roster was definitely flawed because it couldn't play defense, and I don't think anyone really thought they were a contender. It was a team always in need of one good two-way big man instead of the no-D Jamison at PF and the no-O Haywood at center.

EG did sacrifice the future for "now" a few years later with that roster when he traded the #6 pick for Miller, but it wasn't perceived as a final move to be a contender. It was a move that favored mediocrity over rebuilding.

This team is different. We won 49 games, not 45, and we did it with our star player only 26 and two other starters at age 23. Also, EG trading away a future pick wasn't made out of a misguided belief that we are ready to contend. That was a salary cap move.

Not totally true. He got outbidded by bigger idiots for their services. He tried to keep both Hughes & Jeffries. I remember specifically Hughes being insulted by the Wizards initial offer and our front office being disappointed they didn't have an opportunity to match Cleveland's price.

[payitforward]

Grunfeld has built a contender and the Wizards can take Cleveland to a 7 game series. Nothing else to discuss

Morris, Satoransky, Smith, Burke, & Bogdanovic have been of zero or little help in this R1 series so far. Jennings helped a lot in one of our 2 wins but played poorly in Atlanta. Mahinmi is out. Obviously, Ochefu & McClellan haven't contributed in the series. Nor McCullough. Oubre had 1 good game to open the series & has struggled since then. But he's only 21, still raw, & can't be judged on these performances. & try as I might, not even I can bring myself to blame Ernie for Mahinmi's untimely injury.

Still, that would be the last 11 guys Ernie has added to this team. Aside from the low level of performance, those guys also cost us a R1 pick & 2 R2 picks.

Ernie's inability to add quality players except by picking #1-3 in the draft is showing itself. Yes, Gortat too.... & we have hopes for Oubre.

All the same... wow, that's pathetic. Thanks for bringing it up, millie.

[payitforward]

duplicate post....

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

They won game 5. Nothing to add right now...

[Kanyewest]

You are rewriting history a bit.

The best Arenas-era team won just 45 games. And Grunfeld didn't exactly double down on the roster. He actually let guys like Hughes and Jeffries walk rather than overpay them to keep together a non-contending team. That roster was definitely flawed because it couldn't play defense, and I don't think anyone really thought they were a contender. It was a team always in need of one good two-way big man instead of the no-D Jamison at PF and the no-O Haywood at center.

EG did sacrifice the future for "now" a few years later with that roster when he traded the #6 pick for Miller, but it wasn't perceived as a final move to be a contender. It was a move that favored mediocrity over rebuilding.

This team is different. We won 49 games, not 45, and we did it with our star player only 26 and two other starters at age 23. Also, EG trading away a future pick wasn't made out of a misguided belief that we are ready to contend. That was a salary cap move.

Not totally true. He got outbidded by bigger idiots for their services. He tried to keep both Hughes & Jeffries. I remember specifically Hughes being insulted by the Wizards initial offer and our front office being disappointed they didn't have an opportunity to match Cleveland's price.

I mean wasn't everyone disappointed that the Wizards couldn't keep Hughes at a more affordable price? Hughes probably would have been more effective with Washington than with LeBron.