OKC Thunder Offseason 2017: The Reshapening

[slick_watts]

It all goes back to mortgaging the future on the deals that brought in Kanter and then Dion. Trading those picks for those sort of "pieces" was a big waste.

I never liked the Waiters deal. The Kanter deal made sense. Kanter was the type of player that should have become an impact player for the Thunder. He just refuses to play defense. If they finish off GS last year and then beat Cleveland then it doesn't matter. Presti was taking a shot at a championship and while I didn't like some of the moves I at least understood what he was trying to accomplish. It isn't like you were expecting to get anything better from picks in the 20s. Who would they have picked in the 20s last year? Who would they pick in the 20s in 2018? Those picks didn't change anything for this season and if you base it on the expected player those picks get you those players were unlikely to ever be significant contributors.

david locke had interesting comments after the kanter trade that he was incapable of diagnosing plays, reading situations, understanding playbooks, etc. he came close to suggesting he has a learning disability. the way kanter plays on defense and even on offense, he's not doing anything out there that requires much advanced thought or reading of opponent's intentions. i think kanter does try, but truly may be incapable.

[Old Man Game]

It all goes back to mortgaging the future on the deals that brought in Kanter and then Dion. Trading those picks for those sort of "pieces" was a big waste.

I never liked the Waiters deal. The Kanter deal made sense. Kanter was the type of player that should have become an impact player for the Thunder. He just refuses to play defense. If they finish off GS last year and then beat Cleveland then it doesn't matter. Presti was taking a shot at a championship and while I didn't like some of the moves I at least understood what he was trying to accomplish. It isn't like you were expecting to get anything better from picks in the 20s. Who would they have picked in the 20s last year? Who would they pick in the 20s in 2018? Those picks didn't change anything for this season and if you base it on the expected player those picks get you those players were unlikely to ever be significant contributors.

Be that as it may, we utilized assets (including Reggie and Perk's expiring) to acquire a player that is taking up a significant amount our our cap right now, and which we weren't even able to put on the floor for extended stretches in a playoff series. Another player acquired lasted a season and a half and is already gone. Can't keep whiffing on opportunities, because now the cupboard is fairly bare.

[slick_watts]

another aspect of the kanter trade that is disappointing was the suggestion at the time that kanter would be an attractive trade piece at his salary in years 3 and 4 of the deal, and could bring back a comparable or better asset if he didn't work out as planned.

i'd say that suggestion does not look promising right now looking at how the league is valuing big men who cannot defend.

[thedoppelganger]

Did Royce survive the cuts at ESPN? Didn't see any tweets from him, but if Strauss was let go it seemed like Royce would be in trouble as well. I'm hoping Tim McMahon filling in at the end of the year was due to Royce needing to be home for his wife and not a preview of next year.

Either way I hope DT gets fixed, as the draft discussion on there was one of its better aspects.

[Old Man Game]

Did Royce survive the cuts at ESPN? Didn't see any tweets from him, but if Strauss was let go it seemed like Royce would be in trouble as well. I'm hoping Tim McMahon filling in at the end of the year was due to Royce needing to be home for his wife and not a preview of next year.

Either way I hope DT gets fixed, as the draft discussion on there was one of its better aspects.

I think so. Didn't see anything. Was a bit worried for him.

[Andre Roberstan]

Did Royce survive the cuts at ESPN? Didn't see any tweets from him, but if Strauss was let go it seemed like Royce would be in trouble as well. I'm hoping Tim McMahon filling in at the end of the year was due to Royce needing to be home for his wife and not a preview of next year.

Either way I hope DT gets fixed, as the draft discussion on there was one of its better aspects.

I think so. Didn't see anything. Was a bit worried for him.

Jon Hamm DMed me and said Royce is in the clear.

[Andre Roberstan]

It all goes back to mortgaging the future on the deals that brought in Kanter and then Dion. Trading those picks for those sort of "pieces" was a big waste.

I never liked the Waiters deal. The Kanter deal made sense. Kanter was the type of player that should have become an impact player for the Thunder. He just refuses to play defense. If they finish off GS last year and then beat Cleveland then it doesn't matter. Presti was taking a shot at a championship and while I didn't like some of the moves I at least understood what he was trying to accomplish. It isn't like you were expecting to get anything better from picks in the 20s. Who would they have picked in the 20s last year? Who would they pick in the 20s in 2018? Those picks didn't change anything for this season and if you base it on the expected player those picks get you those players were unlikely to ever be significant contributors.

david locke had interesting comments after the kanter trade that he was incapable of diagnosing plays, reading situations, understanding playbooks, etc. he came close to suggesting he has a learning disability. the way kanter plays on defense and even on offense, he's not doing anything out there that requires much advanced thought or reading of opponent's intentions. i think kanter does try, but truly may be incapable.

I think "learning disability" might be a bridge too far, but I've had the same thought. He's good at what he's good at, but he doesn't show a ton of awareness on either end. There've been small signs of improvement this year, but at this point I think he is what he is.

[Balkman32]

TBH I'm just along for the ride. This is Presti's shot. He screws this up, it's over.

Did you say this when he traded Harden as well?

[bondom34]

TBH I'm just along for the ride. This is Presti's shot. He screws this up, it's over.

Did you say this when he traded Harden as well?

They still had a bit more talent then.

[Balkman32]

I'm still hung up on how crappy Victor was this series. I need some time away from it. Right now I'd trade everyone other than Russ.

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He's 24 and it was his first series. He will be fine.

[Balkman32]

I know you'll hate to hear it, but if they resign Roberson, it's over.

He started hot in the houston series, completely uncharacteristic, then came back to reality. He can't hit a foul shot, isn't even guarded in playoff series, and literally never collapses the defense. He can't shoot a basketball off a dribble. He plays great D. Makes in hard on opposing stars, but doesn't stop them from dominating (Harden had huge numbers this series).

The defense has a major advantage when he's on the court, it's 4 vs 5, the guys that actually can dribble always run into an extra defender. That's gotta be frustrating. Blame it on not having a system if you want, but how do you design a flowing team system, when one of your wings 1)can't dribble, 2) can't take a dribble handoff (see point one) 3) never causes the defense to collapse or rotate 4) can't shoot 3s and 5) doesn't want to get to the line? He can't do any of the things a flowing offense would require, and the fact that he isn't guarded at all makes it virtually impossible, as you can't anticipate the defenses rotations since they don't guard or follow him. His defense is impressive, but how do you win with a guy like that?

Dre is a very nice player and they should re-sign him rather than let him walk. If Adams and Dipo can get more offence going he is fine in the starting lineup. I think he could even start @ the 4 if we get a capable scoring 3.

[Balkman32]

In all likely hood I don't think there's much of a chance we retain Taj. He's worth more than what we can pay him and I doubt our ownership wants to delve deep into the tax to retain both him and Roberson to continue our complete lack of spacing. It's also just not Presti's style to overpay on the back end of a contract and if Taj gets around 4/60 then I don't see him giving that value back at age 35. I say pay Roberson, let Taj walk and see what Domas looks like his sophomore year. If he's still not the answer then you can always make another deal on the deadline. Only make a deal for Dipo or Adams if it's there. Otherwise I say we develop internally and let those contracts start to look better with their improvement. Priority #1 should be to seek out an actual backup PG that can create/defend because this hypothetical player is going to need to play with and without Russ on the floor. Would also be fine if that player isn't necessarily a PG but just a bucket getting guard/wing. Maybe a Will Barton type.

I don't see Taj coming back either its just not in their MO. Unless he signs for around the mid-level - maybe a little more than that just to give him more money than a payoff team that's over the cap can give him. One thing about the Thunder and the way they sign contracts is that 9 time out of 10 you are still with the team in the final year of the deal and then and only then you might get moved throughout the season.

I would think the Thunder will attempt to use the mid-lever to bring in a back pg.

[Balkman32]

Does Dakari Johnson and Daniel Hamilton get 2 way contracts for the 16th and 17th roster spot?

[Balkman32]

TBH I'm just along for the ride. This is Presti's shot. He screws this up, it's over.

Did you say this when he traded Harden as well?

They still had a bit more talent then.

That was the biggest mistake of his career. I know Adams and Abrines are here because of the deal. But he made that decision too early because there was not enough ball to go around and now there is not enough ballers on the roster. I know the tax was a concern and we wanted to get the roster right for the year before training camp ended. But, this goes down as the biggest mistake.

They never should have traded Harden with in the Western Conf.

[bondom34]

Did you say this when he traded Harden as well?

They still had a bit more talent then.

That was the biggest mistake of his career. I know Adams and Abrines are here because of the deal. But he made that decision too early because there was not enough ball to go around and now there is not enough ballers on the roster. I know the tax was a concern and we wanted to get the roster right for the year before training camp ended. But, this goes down as the biggest mistake.

They never should have traded Harden with in the Western Conf.

Don't disagree. Honestly wasn't as big a fan then, but that was the start of the downhill. There were a lot of turns after though and the 2013 team was the best ever.

[Balkman32]

The core of the team is Westbrook, Kanter, Oladipo and Adams. Priority numero uno is to get rid of Roberson and somehow replace him with a decent two way player at small forward who can get 12-14 points per game and become a reliable scorer and play decent defense. Anybody they get is going to be a huge upgrade as the idea of addition by subtraction comes to mind since Roberson is such a horrifically bad offensive player...arguably the worst in the history of the NBA. If they can get Gibson to come back and develop Grant, Abrines and McDermott while also getting just a decent backup PG they're going to be considerably better.

Kanter is not core. Maybe his mustache is but not him. When you cant get put on the floor in the first round of the playoffs there is a serious problem.

[Balkman32]

They asked Kanter what he wants to work on this season and he said his face ups and three point shots. Great answer.

Defense?

[thedoppelganger]

They still had a bit more talent then.

That was the biggest mistake of his career. I know Adams and Abrines are here because of the deal. But he made that decision too early because there was not enough ball to go around and now there is not enough ballers on the roster. I know the tax was a concern and we wanted to get the roster right for the year before training camp ended. But, this goes down as the biggest mistake.

They never should have traded Harden with in the Western Conf.

Don't disagree. Honestly wasn't as big a fan then, but that was the start of the downhill. There were a lot of turns after though and the 2013 team was the best ever.

It's entertaining looking at the deals other teams turned down like Beal or Klay for Harden. Both would've been better for us than what we got from Houston, but imagine what the Wiz or GS would've been with Harden! And that's just the leaked deals we know of, probably some other good ones out there.

[slick_watts]

the guy asking for a 'decent two way player' in place of andre roberson considers enes kanter a part of our core.

[Balkman32]

I want Kanter and Oladipo gone. That's my first wish. Taj probably won't be resigned.
Then draft better than last couple of years (2014. facepalm year, 2015. Cam is probably bust).
Russ, Robes, excellent 3D wing, Sabonis and Adams is competitive starting five. The real problem is bench.
How can we find our Gordon, Williams and Nene? Right now only Abrines looks like a good role player for next season.

Houston and OKC have different methods of building. Our Gordan, Williams, and Nene are Grant, McDermott, and Abrines. They are just young and don't have the experience yet. The three of them will be with the 2nd unit next year unless they trade them w/ a Kanter and or Dipo for a better talent.