Luka Doncic

[Bob8]

Its been stated that if Doncic somehow gets a pull up game, or becomes a good finisher, or develops a post game then his prospects go from great utility guy to offensive anchor....but you can say similar things about most high-end lottery picks.

It would be interesting to hear what Doncic has at this moment being only 18 years old, that makes him one of the most important players of Real Madrid, the best team of regular season in Euroleague? And maybe hear who from 2018 draft prospects has similar quality at this moment?

[reanimator]

Its been stated that if Doncic somehow gets a pull up game, or becomes a good finisher, or develops a post game then his prospects go from great utility guy to offensive anchor....but you can say similar things about most high-end lottery picks.

It would be interesting to hear what Doncic has at this moment being only 18 years old, that makes him one of the most important players of Real Madrid, the best team of regular season in Euroleague? And maybe hear who from 2018 draft prospects has similar quality at this moment?

Doncic is a lottery talent. He has elite spatial awareness, a good handle, spaces the floor...all in a developed frame compared to his peers (not grown men). I'm not shocked but the draft is more than "the player with the highest floor" or "the most productive against the toughest competition."

[Johnny Firpo]

So he's going to be a SF? The most athletic position on average and the one with the best defenders in the league?

If Gallo can score 20 on 58%TS, and 19 on 62%TS, I'm not really worried about Doncic, who is quicker, has better handles, a better passer, and arguably a better shooter. But please, explain me Gallo then.

[Ettorefm]

who is quicker, has better handles, a better passer, and arguably a better shooter. .

You can't be serious.

[agentofatlas]

So he's going to be a SF? The most athletic position on average and the one with the best defenders in the league?

If Gallo can score 20 on 58%TS, and 19 on 62%TS, I'm not really worried about Doncic, who is quicker, has better handles, a better passer, and arguably a better shooter. But please, explain me Gallo then.

Gallo came to mind as well but then again Gallo seems longer/bigger than Doncic. I mean the guy has legit PF size. Also if Gallo is his ceiling then the other guy is right, seeing as Gallo is a great utility player in the NBA but not really a offensive anchor.

Anyways, some of the criticsm seem on point for the most part and in line with most prospect critisms.

The question really with him is what is his offensive ceiling?

[kayath]

His offensive ceiling is Magic Johnson + 3point shot.

[pacersGM]

lets put it this way:

luka could play the entire second quarter for the spurs against the grizzlies in a playoff game yesterday.
michael porter, collin sexton, gary trent jr., ... could play in the final 30 seconds if the spurs led by 20 at that point.

in a exibition game (hoop summit, mcdonalds all american game ...) you would watch sexton and porter highlights, with maybe a 3pt and assist from doncic.

so thats the difference right now. if you want to get help in a nba game, luka is ahead of the US kids and other internation prospects.
the real question is: will porter and sexton learn to play the game the right way or will they stay "knuckleheads" in 2-3 years, or will lukas superior iq and average athletic ability be enough to translate to a high nba level.

that, only time will tell. but one thing is shure. if he goes top 5 in the draft, there is a big chance he will be considered a bust. if he goes 6-15, there is a good chance he develops into a feel good story like hayward. not to say they are the most comparable players, but they have some things in common.

[916fan]

Considering I never said that (and went out of my way to say in no way Fultz would dominate, at most he would be okay, but probably just mediocre as basketball is more than just driving to the hoop and experience matters), I see no point in answering you. Just read my previous post

I'm not saying only Fultz, but no one adult former NCAA star or Nba player.

I'm not one of those people who say that non-NBA players would dominate in Europe. Of course not. That 's not how it works.

Nobody expects Doncic to do it either. I just want to see his skillset so we can project how he's going to translate to NBA basketball. And years, decades of experience show us a pattern; dudes who can't guard their position or can't score 1 on 1 don't end up being more than average starters or role players.

I think Doncic will be a very good player

Yes, you're exactly right. I think most of us are just wondering how he'll translate to the NBA level. No one is questioning his talent, or even doubting it. I don't want to start another chain reaction, but I think his official measured height at the combine will be very important. It will determine what position he plays and guards. Again, we will just have to see in a year from now. He is also still young and not done growing, so it's just a waiting game. No need to discuss that further.

NBA and Eurogame is very different. I am just judging him by how he will develop as a NBA player, not as a Euro player. I hope others can understand that and not take it the wrong way. He's a very exceptional young player for Real right now.

[Bob8]

I'm not saying only Fultz, but no one adult former NCAA star or Nba player.

I'm not one of those people who say that non-NBA players would dominate in Europe. Of course not. That 's not how it works.

Nobody expects Doncic to do it either. I just want to see his skillset so we can project how he's going to translate to NBA basketball. And years, decades of experience show us a pattern; dudes who can't guard their position or can't score 1 on 1 don't end up being more than average starters or role players.

I think Doncic will be a very good player

Yes, you're exactly right. I think most of us are just wondering how he'll translate to the NBA level. No one is questioning his talent, or even doubting it. I don't want to start another chain reaction, but I think his official measured height at the combine will be very important. It will determine what position he plays and guards. Again, we will just have to see in a year from now. He is also still young and not done growing, so it's just a waiting game. No need to discuss that further.

NBA and Eurogame is very different. I am just judging him by how he will develop as a NBA player, not as a Euro player. I hope others can understand that and not take it the wrong way. He's a very exceptional young player for Real right now.

I understand all that, I'm not 100 % sure how he will look in Nba too. But there is one thing many don't want to understand or can't understand. Because of different rules, different defenses, different courts and different understandings how the game should be played, it's much easier to score in Nba than in Euroleague. Just look playoffs game Efes: Olympiacos, 64:60. How can anybody shine offensively in that kind of game? You're telling us he can't beat anybody with his first step. But the rules allows different first step in Nba than in Euroleague. In Euroleague defenses in many games look more similar to rugby games than Nba games. There are many offensive fouls called, that makes more difficult attacking the rim. Number of possession is much lower in Euroleague. Courts are bigger in Nba. In Euroleague any game in regular season counts. Pressure is big, coaches being fired after a bad month. You don't need to look what Doncic does, look at others. The best scorer in Euroleague has around 20 PPG. All others less than 20. 30 points in a game is very rare in Euroleague. Triple double was made only twice in 17 years, by the same player, 10 years ago. Doncic was very near that, with 10/11/8. Westbrook had triple double average this year. Put any Nba star in Euroleague and he won't look not nearly as impressive as in Nba. I agree we have to wait, how he will look in 2 or 3 years time in Nba.

[Johnny Firpo]

You can't be serious.

Dude, I saw literally all of Gallo's games since coming to the NBA. I'm a huge fan. There is no question that Doncic is quicker, has better handles, and a better shooter right now than Gallo ever was. Foul drawing is obviously an area where Gallo is vastly better.

[Johnny Firpo]

Gallo came to mind as well but then again Gallo seems longer/bigger than Doncic. I mean the guy has legit PF size. Also if Gallo is his ceiling then the other guy is right, seeing as Gallo is a great utility player in the NBA but not really a offensive anchor.

Anyways, some of the criticsm seem on point for the most part and in line with most prospect critisms.

The question really with him is what is his offensive ceiling?

Gallo is like one inch taller than Doncic is, most definitely slower, and spent his career almost entirely at the SF spot. And no, he is not right, because Gallo doesn't have a post game, slower than Doncic, has an arguably worse jumpshot, most definitely has worse handles (that's not arguable). and has no problem scoring at an elite efficiency in the NBA, putting up 19 to 20 points in the last couple of years. Doncic should be able to do that, and along with his passing and rebounding, that's already more than a utility player.

[agentofatlas]

Gallo came to mind as well but then again Gallo seems longer/bigger than Doncic. I mean the guy has legit PF size. Also if Gallo is his ceiling then the other guy is right, seeing as Gallo is a great utility player in the NBA but not really a offensive anchor.

Anyways, some of the criticsm seem on point for the most part and in line with most prospect critisms.

The question really with him is what is his offensive ceiling?

Gallo is like one inch taller than Doncic is, most definitely slower, and spent his career almost entirely at the SF spot. And no, he is not right, because Gallo doesn't have a post game, slower than Doncic, has an arguably worse jumpshot, most definitely has worse handles (that's not arguable). and has no problem scoring at an elite efficiency in the NBA, putting up 19 to 20 points in the last couple of years. Doncic should be able to do that, and along with his passing and rebounding, that's already more than a utility player.

Ok then what's your point. I already said he'll be fine on offense. The only questions I have is what is his offensive ceiling? Are saying that he projects to be an offensive anchor on the wing cause he'll have to be a very excellent shooter for that to happen.

Also being a utility player is not an insult. Iguodala, Hayward and Klay are utility players to me.

[Johnny Firpo]

Ok then what's your point. I already said he'll be fine on offense. The only questions I have is what is his offensive ceiling? Are saying that he projects to be an offensive anchor on the wing cause he'll have to be a very excellent shooter for that to happen.

Also being a utility player is not an insult. Iguodala, Hayward and Klay are utility players to me.

My point is that saying that he projects to be a utility player is a narrow-minded opinion, when it is based on his supposed scoring ability. Gallo is a good example for that, because he is clearly less talented from a skill standpoint than Doncic, doesn't have great athletic ability at the small foward spot, and yet has no problem scoring at an elite efficiency.

His ceiling is most definitely higher than that of a utility player. I don't like sticking to white to white and black to black comparisons, but I think he could be as good as Chris Mullin was. I would probably put his ceiling around that level. Obviously, whether a player makes it or not is not an exact science.

For example, it's easily possible that ettorefm and reanmator are both wrong in their assessment, and they still end up being right and Doncic only becomes a role player, because skills are just one part of the equation. Anyway, Doncic still projects to go Top 3, and with an excellent season next year, he could be the top pick for all we know. Also, not sure I view Hayward as a utility player at this point, the guy became an All-Star and tearing it up in the playoffs.

That's not a utility player for me, not anymore. And I also don't think that a utility player could score 60 in three quearters, or 37 in one. Igoudala, right now? Certainly, that is a utility player.

[pacersGM]

His ceiling is most definitely higher than that of a utility player. I don't like sticking to white to white and black to black comparisons, but I think he could be as good as Chris Mullin was. I would probably put his ceiling around that level. Obviously, whether a player makes it or not is not an exact science.

The only way doncic is comparable to chris mullin is by skin colour and/or position height. Did you ever see mullin play. I dont mean youtube highlights, but an actual game. If you did, you would see mullin was a scorer, a bad dude for a white guy playing in the 80/90 nba. I would compare drazen and mullin. You really think doncic can get to the hall of fame in the nba lane of his career, with what he has? He can naybe be a couple times all star in his wettest dream. He can pray and work hard, so that he can have a nba team leadee career similar to hayward (who by the way is not comparable to igoudala. Igoudala was too limited to lead a team to something bigger, so hayward is a difference maker on a playoff team, igoudala a role player on a also great team.) if doncic ends his career any near mullin, he would be there with drazen and dirk or even stojakovic, gasol, ginobilli. You think he has the tools? I doubt it very very much

[kayath]

you said narrow minded option, what is your top ceiling for him?

[agentofatlas]

Ok then what's your point. I already said he'll be fine on offense. The only questions I have is what is his offensive ceiling? Are saying that he projects to be an offensive anchor on the wing cause he'll have to be a very excellent shooter for that to happen.

Also being a utility player is not an insult. Iguodala, Hayward and Klay are utility players to me.

My point is that saying that he projects to be a utility player is a narrow-minded opinion, when it is based on his supposed scoring ability. Gallo is a good example for that, because he is clearly less talented from a skill standpoint than Doncic, doesn't have great athletic ability at the small foward spot, and yet has no problem scoring at an elite efficiency.

His ceiling is most definitely higher than that of a utility player. I don't like sticking to white to white and black to black comparisons, but I think he could be as good as Chris Mullin was. I would probably put his ceiling around that level. Obviously, whether a player makes it or not is not an exact science.

For example, it's easily possible that ettorefm and reanmator are both wrong in their assessment, and they still end up being right and Doncic only becomes a role player, because skills are just one part of the equation. Anyway, Doncic still projects to go Top 3, and with an excellent season next year, he could be the top pick for all we know. Also, not sure I view Hayward as a utility player at this point, the guy became an All-Star and tearing it up in the playoffs.

That's not a utility player for me, not anymore. And I also don't think that a utility player could score 60 in three quearters, or 37 in one. Igoudala, right now? Certainly, that is a utility player.

This is where we have a disconnect. We have different definitions for utility players. For you it means roleplayer. 2nd-3rd options are utility players for me. 1st options are who are offensive anchors for me are like Curry, Dirk, CP3.

For me Doncic ceiling is being maybe the 3rd or 2nd best player of a team. A utility player. I don't think he'll be an offensive anchor cause in all honestly that's rare. His only chance is if he measures bigger and/or he shoots at an elite level.

Also I don't consider Mullin as an offensive anchor either btw.

Final point I'm not saying he'll be a bust. I think his floor is good and he'll probably do well at the next level. But like you said, he is projected to be in the top 3, expect people to pick at his game more. No need to become sensitive about it.

[XTraderXL]

I think we should all wait until next season to see what he can do on offense. This season he is very limited by Laso, he doesnt have the freedom of Llull or Randolph on offense to really show everything he can do. He needs to be the main guy for his best game to come out. We have seen this many times this season, especially when Llull was not on the floor or was having a bad game. Real played its best basketball when Doncic was playing at the point and was doing his thing. It was really a pleasure to watch Real in those games. Right now if he misses 2 shots and he stops shooting because he knows that if he misses the 3rd one, Laso will take him out. Llull can shoot 1 for 13 and will still dominate the ball and look for his shots as long as he is on the floor. I know how it is to be a young player and realize that you have a limited number of missed shots and after you miss one, you have to make the next one or you will probably be taken out of the game so you just try to play hard on defense and only go for easy baskets. Next season he will have a bigger role, more minutes, whole offseason to work on his body and skills and I fully expect him to show more on offense. After all, he was scoring 50+ points regularly at 16 which shows that he has the offensive aggressiveness when he is asked to score more.

The main thing skill wise for him is to develop a mid range pull up game where he can easily be more efficient coming out of a pick. Many times he has his defender on his back and could pull up from 4-5m but he is either looking for a pass or puts up a floater which he has to work on as well. The other thing is his post up game but that will be easier for him once he gains more strength. The mid range pull up could amount to him taking a few more shots per game and since he is a very good shooter that could mean 2 or 3 fairly easy baskets for him which he is now missing out on.

His shortcomings are more visible now because he plays in EL, if he was playing at a lower level these minuses would not be as noticeable and we would not be talking about it so much. We all realize he needs to work on his explosiveness, lateral quickness and strength which in my opinion can be improved quite a lot to the point he will be at least an average athletically in NBA terms. We will just have to wait and see what he does during the summer and it will be much easier to predict what he can do in the NBA.

[XTraderXL]

Ok then what's your point. I already said he'll be fine on offense. The only questions I have is what is his offensive ceiling? Are saying that he projects to be an offensive anchor on the wing cause he'll have to be a very excellent shooter for that to happen.

Also being a utility player is not an insult. Iguodala, Hayward and Klay are utility players to me.

My point is that saying that he projects to be a utility player is a narrow-minded opinion, when it is based on his supposed scoring ability. Gallo is a good example for that, because he is clearly less talented from a skill standpoint than Doncic, doesn't have great athletic ability at the small foward spot, and yet has no problem scoring at an elite efficiency.

His ceiling is most definitely higher than that of a utility player. I don't like sticking to white to white and black to black comparisons, but I think he could be as good as Chris Mullin was. I would probably put his ceiling around that level. Obviously, whether a player makes it or not is not an exact science.

For example, it's easily possible that ettorefm and reanmator are both wrong in their assessment, and they still end up being right and Doncic only becomes a role player, because skills are just one part of the equation. Anyway, Doncic still projects to go Top 3, and with an excellent season next year, he could be the top pick for all we know. Also, not sure I view Hayward as a utility player at this point, the guy became an All-Star and tearing it up in the playoffs.

That's not a utility player for me, not anymore. And I also don't think that a utility player could score 60 in three quearters, or 37 in one. Igoudala, right now? Certainly, that is a utility player.

This is where we have a disconnect. We have different definitions for utility players. For you it means roleplayer. 2nd-3rd options are utility players for me. 1st options are who are offensive anchors for me are like Curry, Dirk, CP3.

For me Doncic ceiling is being maybe the 3rd or 2nd best player of a team. A utility player. I don't think he'll be an offensive anchor cause in all honestly that's rare. His only chance is if he measures bigger and/or he shoots at an elite level.

Also I don't consider Mullin as an offensive anchor either btw.

Final point I'm not saying he'll be a bust. I think his floor is good and he'll probably do well at the next level. But like you said, he is projected to be in the top 3, expect people to pick at his game more. No need to become sensitive about it.

So there are maybe 7 offensive anchors in the league right now in your view?

[UcanUwill]

I'm not one of those people who say that non-NBA players would dominate in Europe. Of course not. That 's not how it works.

Nobody expects Doncic to do it either. I just want to see his skillset so we can project how he's going to translate to NBA basketball. And years, decades of experience show us a pattern; dudes who can't guard their position or can't score 1 on 1 don't end up being more than average starters or role players.

I think Doncic will be a very good player

Yes, you're exactly right. I think most of us are just wondering how he'll translate to the NBA level. No one is questioning his talent, or even doubting it. I don't want to start another chain reaction, but I think his official measured height at the combine will be very important. It will determine what position he plays and guards. Again, we will just have to see in a year from now. He is also still young and not done growing, so it's just a waiting game. No need to discuss that further.

NBA and Eurogame is very different. I am just judging him by how he will develop as a NBA player, not as a Euro player. I hope others can understand that and not take it the wrong way. He's a very exceptional young player for Real right now.

I understand all that, I'm not 100 % sure how he will look in Nba too. But there is one thing many don't want to understand or can't understand. Because of different rules, different defenses, different courts and different understandings how the game should be played, it's much easier to score in Nba than in Euroleague. Just look playoffs game Efes: Olympiacos, 64:60. How can anybody shine offensively in that kind of game? You're telling us he can't beat anybody with his first step. But the rules allows different first step in Nba than in Euroleague. In Euroleague defenses in many games look more similar to rugby games than Nba games. There are many offensive fouls called, that makes more difficult attacking the rim. Number of possession is much lower in Euroleague. Courts are bigger in Nba. In Euroleague any game in regular season counts. Pressure is big, coaches being fired after a bad month. You don't need to look what Doncic does, look at others. The best scorer in Euroleague has around 20 PPG. All others less than 20. 30 points in a game is very rare in Euroleague. Triple double was made only twice in 17 years, by the same player, 10 years ago. Doncic was very near that, with 10/11/8. Westbrook had triple double average this year. Put any Nba star in Euroleague and he won't look not nearly as impressive as in Nba. I agree we have to wait, how he will look in 2 or 3 years time in Nba.

I agree that Euro rules makes it harder to score, but the biggest reason, not the only one, but the biggest reason why NBa games are so high scoring in comparison, is not because of the different rules, but the fact NBA players are just so much better. NBA has by far the best slashers, shooters and finishers.
Look at scoring rates Nando De Colo puts up. Look at prime Bo McCalebb, they said slashing is ineffective in Europe, but he did pretty good job. Its all can be done in Europe if you good enough.

[Johnny Firpo]

[if doncic ends his career any near mullin, he would be there with drazen and dirk or even stojakovic, gasol, ginobilli. You think he has the tools? I doubt it very very much

Absolutely, he is that kind of talent, no question about it. I didn't say they were similar as in they have the same style and mentality. As you said Mullin was more of a scorer, although he was also a very good facilitator. What I meant is that Mullin was also a supremely skilled prospect who had one limitation, athleticism, and he overcame that with flying colors thanks to his enormous skill level. Same as did Bird, Nash, Sabonis, or at the lesser level, Andre Miller. And you may want to say that some of these guys had excellent size, so does Doncic, and he may still be growing. I want to emphasize, I'm not saying Doncic will become Dirk, Drazen, Pau or even a Marc Gasol. I'm saying he is the kind of prospect who could absolutely join these guys.