2017 Draft

[SoCalNuggsFan]

What I mean by NBA skills is you put him in the league right now, he's one of the best passing bigs. Also an above average shooter among bigs. Guys like bender and skita were protectable to to have NBA level skills but didn't have any yet. Watching bender last year, you could tell he had the potential to be a good NBA player but there was nothing you could point to to say "that skill is already better than the average NBA big."

Now the value of that is that even if Hartstien comes over and doesn't develop, he still goes on to have a decent career (even if not the career you were expecting out of a lotto pick) as a role player that has a couple things to specialize in. Lowers downside. It's why Bargniani was a huge bust but still had a relatively long NBA career. He was already an NBA level shooter.

And obviously he's not polished. You don't get polished teenagers at 13. Everyone in this range is either a raw young guy or a polished upperclassman with limited ceiling. You want a safe 19 year old to pick? Better hope we win that lottery.

He seems like a great fit with and/or backing up Jokic. My biggest concern is that he's labeled as "emotional" and I'd be concerned about Malone's ability to deal with him successfully.

He definitely has the Nurkic fire

[skywalker33]

What I mean by NBA skills is you put him in the league right now, he's one of the best passing bigs. Also an above average shooter among bigs. Guys like bender and skita were protectable to to have NBA level skills but didn't have any yet. Watching bender last year, you could tell he had the potential to be a good NBA player but there was nothing you could point to to say "that skill is already better than the average NBA big."

Now the value of that is that even if Hartstien comes over and doesn't develop, he still goes on to have a decent career (even if not the career you were expecting out of a lotto pick) as a role player that has a couple things to specialize in. Lowers downside. It's why Bargniani was a huge bust but still had a relatively long NBA career. He was already an NBA level shooter.

And obviously he's not polished. You don't get polished teenagers at 13. Everyone in this range is either a raw young guy or a polished upperclassman with limited ceiling. You want a safe 19 year old to pick? Better hope we win that lottery.

He seems like a great fit with and/or backing up Jokic. My biggest concern is that he's labeled as "emotional" and I'd be concerned about Malone's ability to deal with him successfully.

He definitely has the Nurkic fire

Look how that worked out for us.....like the fire on the court, not so much off the court. I prefer my professionals to be like Tim Duncan

[Mickey8]

Outside of being European, they're really nothing alike. Games are completely different, skita was super hyped and a top 5 pick, Hartstien is under the radar and maybe late lottery. Skita was 100% potential, Hartstien already has NBA level skills, Hartstien plays for a major euro team, skita played for a team that isn't even a professional team anymore.

How come that he's under radar and underrated He has zero experience in senior basketball , even as a junior he was so raw in various basketball competitions. Dragan Bender had much better resume as a junior player and we saw how bad he struggled in his first year in the league. Skita had NBA skills( whatever that means ) as well , he was not just taken that high because he was so tall Benetton was the European power house when Skita played there, club with bigger reputation at that time than Zalgiris is right now . Hartenstein have lots of deficiencies as player , also he's very raw with a little experience of playing in serious basketball competition. He's a risky pick if you are taking him that high.

What I mean by NBA skills is you put him in the league right now, he's one of the best passing bigs. Also an above average shooter among bigs. Guys like bender and skita were projectable to to have NBA level skills but didn't have any yet. Watching bender last year, you could tell he had the potential to be a good NBA player but there was nothing you could point to to say "that skill is already better than the average NBA big."

Now the value of that is that even if Hartstien comes over and doesn't develop, he still goes on to have a decent career (even if not the career you were expecting out of a lotto pick) as a role player that has a couple things to specialize in. Lowers downside. It's why Bargniani was a huge bust but still had a relatively long NBA career. He was already an NBA level shooter.

And obviously he's not polished. You don't get polished teenagers at 13. Everyone in this range is either a raw young guy or a polished upperclassman with limited ceiling. You want a safe 19 year old to pick? Better hope we win that lottery.

And how did you come to that conclusion??? By watching a few games at junior tournaments ??? Go back and watch Bender in those same tournaments , he often posted up triple double's there , his all around game was more advanced than Hartnestein , Bender's passing in my opinion was way better and more creative as well . To me Hartenstein looks more like Milicic than Nurkic at this point , he needs more seasoning in Europe , working on his game, getting in game experience etc. If Jokic came to the league right after he was drafted , his career would have gone nowhere.

[NuggetsWY]

And how did you come to that conclusion??? By watching a few games at junior tournaments ??? Go back and watch Bender in those same tournaments , he often posted up triple double's there , his all around game was more advanced than Hartnestein , Bender's passing in my opinion was way better and more creative as well . To me Hartenstein looks more like Milicic than Nurkic at this point , he needs more seasoning in Europe , working on his game, getting in game experience etc. If Jokic came to the league right after he was drafted , his career would have gone nowhere.

Sometimes players do well in Europe and not in the NBA. Sometimes they do well in the NBA.
Sometimes players do terribly in Europe and do well in the NBA. Sometimes they don't do well in the NBA.
That's why some European players slide too low in the draft, because nobody really knows how to translate the skills.
That's why some European players are taken too high in the draft. So far, it's been a crap shoot, but Connelly has done better than most.

[SoCalNuggsFan]

How come that he's under radar and underrated He has zero experience in senior basketball , even as a junior he was so raw in various basketball competitions. Dragan Bender had much better resume as a junior player and we saw how bad he struggled in his first year in the league. Skita had NBA skills( whatever that means ) as well , he was not just taken that high because he was so tall Benetton was the European power house when Skita played there, club with bigger reputation at that time than Zalgiris is right now . Hartenstein have lots of deficiencies as player , also he's very raw with a little experience of playing in serious basketball competition. He's a risky pick if you are taking him that high.

What I mean by NBA skills is you put him in the league right now, he's one of the best passing bigs. Also an above average shooter among bigs. Guys like bender and skita were projectable to to have NBA level skills but didn't have any yet. Watching bender last year, you could tell he had the potential to be a good NBA player but there was nothing you could point to to say "that skill is already better than the average NBA big."

Now the value of that is that even if Hartstien comes over and doesn't develop, he still goes on to have a decent career (even if not the career you were expecting out of a lotto pick) as a role player that has a couple things to specialize in. Lowers downside. It's why Bargniani was a huge bust but still had a relatively long NBA career. He was already an NBA level shooter.

And obviously he's not polished. You don't get polished teenagers at 13. Everyone in this range is either a raw young guy or a polished upperclassman with limited ceiling. You want a safe 19 year old to pick? Better hope we win that lottery.

And how did you come to that conclusion??? By watching a few games at junior tournaments ??? Go back and watch Bender in those same tournaments , he often posted up triple double's there , his all around game was more advanced than Hartnestein , Bender's passing in my opinion was way better and more creative as well . To me Hartenstein looks more like Milicic than Nurkic at this point , he needs more seasoning in Europe , working on his game, getting in game experience etc. If Jokic came to the league right after he was drafted , his career would have gone nowhere.

I'm looking at traits not performance. That's the best way to evaluate prospects to me. I've seen traits in Hartstien that make me think that his game should translate well to the NBA and specifically to the Nuggets. Just my opinion, no need to be condescending.

[The Rebel]

Hartenstein has a Skita feel about him to me

Outside of being European, they're really nothing alike. Games are completely different, skita was super hyped and a top 5 pick, Hartstien is under the radar and maybe late lottery. Skita was 100% potential, Hartstien already has NBA level skills, Hartstien plays for a major euro team, skita played for a team that isn't even a professional team anymore.

How come that he's under radar and underrated He has zero experience in senior basketball , even as a junior he was so raw in various basketball competitions. Dragan Bender had much better resume as a junior player and we saw how bad he struggled in his first year in the league. Skita had NBA skills( whatever that means ) as well , he was not just taken that high because he was so tall Benetton was the European power house when Skita played there, club with bigger reputation at that time than Zalgiris is right now . Hartenstein have lots of deficiencies as player , also he's very raw with a little experience of playing in serious basketball competition. He's a risky pick if you are taking him that high.

Skita may have been on the team, but he got zero minutes, there was no game film on the guy. It was pretty obvious that he had potential, but never having seen the guy in an actual game he was drafted on workouts, and as I said Skita had plenty of talent and I am sure was amazing in practice. I still remember when he ruined Biedrins career in that 3rd quarter game against the Warriors about 12 years ago. AB was never the same after that night, go look at the stats and it is scary what he did in only a few minutes. Outside of that in any kind of meaningful minutes he folded, he always seemed intimidated and just never had the mental makeup to be a good player. It happens all the time with US players, you have guys who lose their confidence and are out of the league in a few years, the difference was that Euro players who were considered top 5 picks were rare and so Skita stands out more than most busts.

[The Rebel]

He seems like a great fit with and/or backing up Jokic. My biggest concern is that he's labeled as "emotional" and I'd be concerned about Malone's ability to deal with him successfully.

He definitely has the Nurkic fire

Look how that worked out for us.....like the fire on the court, not so much off the court. I prefer my professionals to be like Tim Duncan

Don't we all, but Duncan was a rare player, and if you look at the teams that actually won championships in SA they had some fiery guys on them.

[The Rebel]

When you are picking the 13th pick you are drafting a guy with problems, they are not perfect prospects otherwise they would be going much earlier in the draft, and truth be told there are still plenty of busts in the top 5 as well. Some have injury issues, other guys are raw but have plenty of physical talent, some have limited perceived upside, others attitude problems, but they all have a problem or two that prevents someone from taking them earlier.

I think the Nuggets are in a position to swing for the fences with this pick, we have plenty of young guys that we and the franchise seem to be very high on in Murray, Harris, Jokic, Hernangomez, and Beasley and we have 2nd round picks. Add that to the cap space and the flexibility built in through the contracts and if we draft a bust this year it is really only a small issue, but if we hit a homerun this team could develop and be a powerhouse in 2-3 years.

If we could trade Chandler or Barton and the pick to move up and get someone like Tatum than I am all for it, barring that I would rather trade back a little. As I have said before I would rather come away from this draft with a couple of boom or bust picks and hope 1 works out, than draft just 1 boom or bust guy at all. With the new rules on the Dleague we can send the rookies to the Dleague for most of the year and let them develop if need be.

[eathb_au]

I liked what I saw from Murray and Juancho but we can't let pick #13 rot on the bench like they did last season.

[skywalker33]

I liked what I saw from Murray and Juancho but we can't let pick #13 rot on the bench like they did last season.

Well if Barton or Chandler are traded, there will be more mins available.

[psimanic1]

well we could help POR once more and send 13 for 15 and 26

[NuggetsWY]

If we could trade Chandler or Barton and the pick to move up and get someone like Tatum than I am all for it, barring that I would rather trade back a little. As I have said before I would rather come away from this draft with a couple of boom or bust picks and hope 1 works out, than draft just 1 boom or bust guy at all. With the new rules on the Dleague we can send the rookies to the Dleague for most of the year and let them develop if need be.

I'd be a fan of this idea. Nobody is likely available or willing to trade two 1sts for our #13, but we could add a couple of seconds but that might not work either. But I'd trade Barton or Chandler straight up for any 1st. Some would think we are overpaying, but we have the assets and if we could swing for the fence on two players, that'd be nice. Too bad we traded away a 1st.

If I'm the GM, I tell all the teams, 1st team to offer a 1st gets choice of Chandler, Barton, Faried, Arthur, Nelson. 2nd offer gets choice of remainder and so on. 1st round picks do not have to be 2017.

But we all know I'm nuts for youth (for now) and willing to fill in with veterans that are cut at the beginning of the season. I still think we can be a play off team while depending on our youth. I do not believe we can be a play off team depending on our current compilation of veterans.

[skywalker33]

If we could trade Chandler or Barton and the pick to move up and get someone like Tatum than I am all for it, barring that I would rather trade back a little. As I have said before I would rather come away from this draft with a couple of boom or bust picks and hope 1 works out, than draft just 1 boom or bust guy at all. With the new rules on the Dleague we can send the rookies to the Dleague for most of the year and let them develop if need be.

I'd be a fan of this idea. Nobody is likely available or willing to trade two 1sts for our #13, but we could add a couple of seconds but that might not work either. But I'd trade Barton or Chandler straight up for any 1st. Some would think we are overpaying, but we have the assets and if we could swing for the fence on two players, that'd be nice. Too bad we traded away a 1st.

If I'm the GM, I tell all the teams, 1st team to offer a 1st gets choice of Chandler, Barton, Faried, Arthur, Nelson. 2nd offer gets choice of remainder and so on. 1st round picks do not have to be 2017.

But we all know I'm nuts for youth (for now) and willing to fill in with veterans that are cut at the beginning of the season. I still think we can be a play off team while depending on our youth. I do not believe we can be a play off team depending on our current compilation of veterans.

Well, I'd approach POR, perhaps they'd do 15 & 26 for 13, they'd probably counter with 20 & 26 for 13. They're also in need of cap relief so maybe we can utilize our cap space to maneuver a trade towards that end. Although I have said before I don't like trading within the division, we might be able to use them to our advantage as we've done in the past.

If we were to trade our vets, I'd definitely want another 2017 pick 1st, then future picks if possible. If we're going with our present youth, might as well build the team to grow together for a long time. I believe our core will continue it's strong play with Jokic, Murray and Harris leading the way, gaining experience...if Malone is willing to get on board.

[The Rebel]

If we could trade Chandler or Barton and the pick to move up and get someone like Tatum than I am all for it, barring that I would rather trade back a little. As I have said before I would rather come away from this draft with a couple of boom or bust picks and hope 1 works out, than draft just 1 boom or bust guy at all. With the new rules on the Dleague we can send the rookies to the Dleague for most of the year and let them develop if need be.

I'd be a fan of this idea. Nobody is likely available or willing to trade two 1sts for our #13, but we could add a couple of seconds but that might not work either. But I'd trade Barton or Chandler straight up for any 1st. Some would think we are overpaying, but we have the assets and if we could swing for the fence on two players, that'd be nice. Too bad we traded away a 1st.

If I'm the GM, I tell all the teams, 1st team to offer a 1st gets choice of Chandler, Barton, Faried, Arthur, Nelson. 2nd offer gets choice of remainder and so on. 1st round picks do not have to be 2017.

But we all know I'm nuts for youth (for now) and willing to fill in with veterans that are cut at the beginning of the season. I still think we can be a play off team while depending on our youth. I do not believe we can be a play off team depending on our current compilation of veterans.

I can't see the trailblazers wanting to add 3 rookies on the payroll and try to win with one top 15 pick and 2 guys who are not likely to be more than rotation players, or add 2 top 15 picks? Much more likely to get a gem that can contribute right away with those two picks than getting a longer term project or boom/bust type pick. That team does not have much time, next year they will be locked into the luxury tax and they better be contenders. I would trade the 13 for the 19 and 23, because I would rather take a couple of boom/busts picks as we can take some risks on the right guy at F, and can sign a new starting forward free agent if need be.

I think Chandler and Barton are both going to be gone, and I do not think it will be for a pick. Whether anybody wants to admit it or not there are plenty of teams that are going to be looking towards them as guys who can help their team take the next step. Chandler is a good starter type on teams with superstars, he can help young teams go from terrible to respectable and grow with someone good enough to help carry some of the load with whatever he wants. Hell the Nuggets could use him for one more year but he seems to have issues with the coach and so it is better for both sides he moves on now. They don't want to get into a Nurkic situation again, trading Nurkic has already caused a ripple around the fan base. He is easily worth a mid 1st round pick. I can see teems like the Bucks, Heat, Blazers, Hornets, Knicks (if they trade Melo), Thunder, Nets, Rockets, and Jazz (if they trade Favors to save money) all wanting Chandler. That is a big list and I think several of them would give up a 1st for the chance to take the next step or keep their core together.

How many teams out there struggled to get scoring out of their bench? How many need a secondary ball handler? How many teams do you think can sign players at the same level for the same type of contract? He is exactly what teams thought they were getting with Brewer. Brewer was signing $5 million dollar a year deals when he left Denver and got resigned for a MLE deal with the Rockets right after, in today's cap that would be about $8 million a year, and we all know Barton is better than that but he is damn sure worth that next year for a team that needs a 6th man type. I am not going to look up the numbers but I think we can all figure out that half of them are below average, and many of them are hurting their teams starters trying to win games.

They are both worth some value mid to late 1sts easily, in fact so are some of the others. Faried brings a guy who can help many teams with their rebounding, that is a huge need for many teams and he is now underpaid on his contract. Arthur I think can bring back a solid 2nd rounder or future 1st, he is a dream big off the bench but his injuries limit his value. Nelson is basically probably going to be a throw in or a team with a late 2nd and some money will trade for him.

There is no way that the team goes in the season with all young guys, I just do not see it happening. I can see most of our current veterans being gone, and a couple of other veterans brought in to help them take the next step.

[skywalker33]

Well, with the Blazers cap space, cheap rookies would be of great value, three of them though ??

I can easily see one or both of Chandler/Barton being traded during the draft, Barton easily by the trade deadline. I think we can/should trade Chandler for a mid-late 1st in this draft, he's worn out his welcome here. I do worry about who will provide the leadership if we're to trade all the vets away, Harris looks like the player most likely to step up IMO.

[NuggetsWY]

Well, with the Blazers cap space, cheap rookies would be of great value, three of them though ??

I can easily see one or both of Chandler/Barton being traded during the draft, Barton easily by the trade deadline. I think we can/should trade Chandler for a mid-late 1st in this draft, he's worn out his welcome here. I do worry about who will provide the leadership if we're to trade all the vets away, Harris looks like the player most likely to step up IMO.

Could - should - probably won't - our front office is going to keep the team salary low.
If they did trade away all of the veterans, they could do like Utah did and sign a couple of solid vets (like Mike Miller).

[skywalker33]

Well, with the Blazers cap space, cheap rookies would be of great value, three of them though ??

I can easily see one or both of Chandler/Barton being traded during the draft, Barton easily by the trade deadline. I think we can/should trade Chandler for a mid-late 1st in this draft, he's worn out his welcome here. I do worry about who will provide the leadership if we're to trade all the vets away, Harris looks like the player most likely to step up IMO.

Could - should - probably won't - our front office is going to keep the team salary low.
If they did trade away all of the veterans, they could do like Utah did and sign a couple of solid vets (like Mike Miller).

Well, let's be clear.....Chandler and Barton ARE solid vets, Chandler is just disgruntled here, Barton just doesn't fit well on this team. IMHO, that's where they'll get the money to resign Gallo (just hope it's not a 4-5 yr deal), by trading Chandler . Not advocating this is the best move(s) but Gallo hasn't been a malcontent here, has expressed both willingness and desire to play in Denver and he did (somewhat) learn to work within the Joker system. It would also be a PR move to show that Denver is willing to take care of it's own.

[NuggetsWY]

http://bsndenver.com/2017-nba-draft-capsule-does-harry-giles-injury-history-make-him-undraftable/
How high/low will Giles be drafted? Is he worth a gamble if he drops to the Nuggets?

[skywalker33]

http://bsndenver.com/2017-nba-draft-capsule-does-harry-giles-injury-history-make-him-undraftable/
How high/low will Giles be drafted? Is he worth a gamble if he drops to the Nuggets?

Some will gamble on Giles, but I see him dropping somewhere to the 22-27 range. While the ACL injuries have stifled his draft value, he's still young enough to bounce back and if he regains form, someone's getting a steal (and I hope it's us)

[skywalker33]

This was supposed to go in this thread

Been checking in on Zach Collins, he seems full of potential here are his stats on the year at Gonzaga:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Zach-Collins-7303/stats/

Not eye-popping but he did this in just over 17mpg. Got some rim-protecting skills, an above-average developing post game but has some propensity to fouls and is not the best passer. May go earlier than 13 but has a very high ceiling.

Probably the only guy within our range I'd select over Anunoby