Luka Doncic

[sam_I_am]

Looks like a young Larry Bird in those highlights. If he can do that at NBA level he is a can't miss star. He's only 18 and doing that stuff against men. Impressive.

[soulzen]

there's no one in 2017 and 2018 class who is even near to Doncic in pure basketball skills

lol absurd

nice to see, that your contribution to the debate is like always very productive.

There is nothing absurd about what you said, Ayton and Bamba are physical freaks and everywhere I read Porter is considered as a skilled player, but is mostly hailed for his size, length and elite athleticism. Doncic on the other hand is praised for his elite BBIQ and feel for the game, I mean he wouldn't be where he is without it, his vision and ball handling is also better than Porter's among other things. Although Porter's length, size and athleticism make him a more complete player, I don't think it's even a question who is more talented and who proved himself more.

[reanimator]

lol absurd

nice to see, that your contribution to the debate is like always very productive.

There is nothing absurd about what you said, Ayton and Bamba are physical freaks and everywhere I read Porter is considered as a skilled player, but is mostly hailed for his size, length and elite athleticism. Doncic on the other hand is praised for his elite BBIQ and feel for the game, I mean he wouldn't be where he is without it, his vision and ball handling is also better than Porter's among other things. Although Porter's length, size and athleticism make him a more complete player, I don't think it's even a question who is more talented and who proved himself more.

Doncic is not more skilled than Fultz or Tatum or Josh Jackson or Porter
He and Ball are similar skill-wise...of course Ball has plus size for his position and is a better athlete

Shooting off the dribble, playing off-ball, posting up, finishing at the rim, creative ballhandling, defensive technique...all skills. Passing and shooting stepback 3s are a very small piece of the puzzle.

[soulzen]

nice to see, that your contribution to the debate is like always very productive.

There is nothing absurd about what you said, Ayton and Bamba are physical freaks and everywhere I read Porter is considered as a skilled player, but is mostly hailed for his size, length and elite athleticism. Doncic on the other hand is praised for his elite BBIQ and feel for the game, I mean he wouldn't be where he is without it, his vision and ball handling is also better than Porter's among other things. Although Porter's length, size and athleticism make him a more complete player, I don't think it's even a question who is more talented and who proved himself more.

Doncic is not more skilled than Fultz or Tatum or Josh Jackson or Porter
He and Ball are similar skill-wise...of course Ball has plus size for his position and is a better athlete

Shooting off the dribble, playing off-ball, posting up, finishing at the rim, creative ballhandling, defensive technique...all skills. Passing and shooting stepback 3s are a very small piece of the puzzle.

And I'm sure Doncic would be good too at all the things you mentioned if he played against high schoolers. I was more or less talking about pure talent though, but yeah agree with you if we go with what you said, and even then how much of it is because he is an elite athlete and is playing against much worse competition. I also read a lot of reports on Porter since I only saw some of his highlights, but I see people saying some of these skills you mentioned as his weaknesses and is not as perfect people are saying. And you clearly don't watch Doncic enough if you think his 3pt stepback and passing are his only strong points.

[Bob8]

nice to see, that your contribution to the debate is like always very productive.

There is nothing absurd about what you said, Ayton and Bamba are physical freaks and everywhere I read Porter is considered as a skilled player, but is mostly hailed for his size, length and elite athleticism. Doncic on the other hand is praised for his elite BBIQ and feel for the game, I mean he wouldn't be where he is without it, his vision and ball handling is also better than Porter's among other things. Although Porter's length, size and athleticism make him a more complete player, I don't think it's even a question who is more talented and who proved himself more.

Doncic is not more skilled than Fultz or Tatum or Josh Jackson or Porter
He and Ball are similar skill-wise...of course Ball has plus size for his position and is a better athlete

Shooting off the dribble, playing off-ball, posting up, finishing at the rim, creative ballhandling, defensive technique...all skills. Passing and shooting stepback 3s are a very small piece of the puzzle.

And with only this small piece of the puzzle and without any athletic abilities is he one of the most important players of Real Madrid although only 18 years old. You really appreciate Euroleague.

For sure would Fultz, Ball, Tatum... dominate in Euroleague, because they're older, more skilled and far more athletic than Doncic.

[reanimator]

And I'm sure Doncic would be good too at all the things you mentioned if he played against high schoolers.

Not sure why you're so sure

[BoardCrusher]

so many trolls on this forum, laughable.

[reanimator]

For sure would Fultz, Ball, Tatum... dominate in Euroleague, because they're older, more skilled and far more athletic than Doncic.

Who said anything about dominating? All of them could contribute if given the same opportunity as Doncic, though. On pure skil level, they all more than hold their own against Doncic. Sorry I'm not buying the generational talent hype that is being propagated.

[Mirotic12]

@mirotic12

Zisis is incredible bad shooter, very close to Calathes. And he's not good rebounder either. I don't see many similarities except movement.

Jaric is maybe more similar, but he's worse shooter than Doncic. I have the feeling that shooting ability will help Doncic a lot to overcome some athletic minuses.

Zisis is many, many times a better shooter than Calathes. Zisis is the best mid range shooter in Europe, and it's not even close either. He's an inconsistent and streaky 3 point shooter, but he definitely has deep range, and if you leave him open, he will make you pay most of the time.......he's miles and miles better than Calathes as a shooter. I can't believe you have ever seen Zisis play to compare those two in terms of shooting.

Jaric wasn't a bad shooter either. 3 point shooting wasn't his strength, but he had 3 point range, and he was a decent shooter. Either way, this is the player type Doncic is, same as another guy like Planinic, etc. I'm not saying he's the exact same player as these guys, but it's very obvious that he's that same player type as them.

He's definitely not a Bodiroga player type.

That's why names like Papaloukas, Zisis, Planinic, Jaric and such come up in this thread....because he's in that player type. No way is he in the player type of Bodiroga.

Maybe, MAYBE defenders look better in Europe because they're not facing players who are elite?

Playing great defense as a SF in Spanish league and in the NBA is completely different. Put good defenders in europe to face Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis and Durant and see if they dont get embarrassed

Sure is easy to be a great post defender when you face dudes who would be role players in the NBA. Try defending Cousins.

This idea that NBA players are bad defenders or don't care about defense is ridiculous. I mean, I'm sorry, but Doncic, a below average dude athletically (NBA wise) is dominating defenders.

Also, people keep repeating that the way fouls are called, and the different rules makes it more difficult to score in Europe. Fine, But how is that the players' merit? If rules and zone hide defenders better, improving overall defense, you can't have the balls to say individually defenders are actually that good.

Also, nothing that you said made sense. Rasho never said better defenders, he said capable of playing better defense, physical-wise. Learn to read.

Every time EuroLeague teams play against NBA teams, all of these myths are immediately erased. But some people pretend it doesn't happen. You can see every time in those NBA against EuroLeague games, that NBA players are definitely not some kind of vastly superior athletes to the ones in EuroLeague. It's simply not true.

Maybe, maybe there are like 3-4 guys in NBA that would stand out athletically....that's about it. There is a LeBron or Westbrook kind of guy.........anything else pretty much has an equivalent in European basketball. It's just a myth that says otherwise.

It's actually true that most EuroLeague players look noticeably more athletic in NBA than they do in EuroLeague. They suddenly become "more athletic" playing under NBA rules. In other words, they are not actually more athletic, it's the rules and reffing, which should really be obvious to anyone that understands basketball. It's known quite well in NCAA that anyone with decent athleticism will have it easier in NBA, so why it's some big mystery on the NBA side is quite strange....wait, it's not actually....it's all about NBA marketing schemes.

Not just does the NBA market that it has the world's best athletes, it also markets that EuroLeague has no athletes at all.....even if the first claim is true, the second claim is an extreme lie, that some people still believe anyway.

Looks like a young Larry Bird in those highlights. If he can do that at NBA level he is a can't miss star. He's only 18 and doing that stuff against men. Impressive.

It's a highlight video, and he gets little defensive attention in Europe...he's down on the list of players on his team that defenses worry about.

In comparison to Bird........Doncic is many, many country miles away in terms of being able to create his own shot and score the basketball. He struggles quite a bit to create his own shot, being the like 5th guy teams are worried about defensively in his team. So he's about on the other opposite side of the spectrum from Bird offensively, since Bird could create his own shot under any circumstance.

Doncic = struggles to create his own shot
Bird = maybe the best ever in basketball history at creating his own shot.

[WalterBenjamin]

nice to see, that your contribution to the debate is like always very productive.

There is nothing absurd about what you said, Ayton and Bamba are physical freaks and everywhere I read Porter is considered as a skilled player, but is mostly hailed for his size, length and elite athleticism. Doncic on the other hand is praised for his elite BBIQ and feel for the game, I mean he wouldn't be where he is without it, his vision and ball handling is also better than Porter's among other things. Although Porter's length, size and athleticism make him a more complete player, I don't think it's even a question who is more talented and who proved himself more.

Doncic is not more skilled than Fultz or Tatum or Josh Jackson or Porter
He and Ball are similar skill-wise...of course Ball has plus size for his position and is a better athlete

Shooting off the dribble, playing off-ball, posting up, finishing at the rim, creative ballhandling, defensive technique...all skills. Passing and shooting stepback 3s are a very small piece of the puzzle.

What skills does Porter have besides shooting that are fairly developed?

[soulzen]

For sure would Fultz, Ball, Tatum... dominate in Euroleague, because they're older, more skilled and far more athletic than Doncic.

Who said anything about dominating? All of them could contribute if given the same opportunity as Doncic, though. On pure skil level, they all more than hold their own against Doncic. Sorry I'm not buying the generational talent hype that is being propagated.

Why are you pulling this "generational talent" thing in the conversation when no one mentioned it or even implied it. You are acting like it's controversial to say Doncic, who is already playing at a very high level purely because of his skill level, is more skilled than a player who just came out of high school, so I would not say Doncic is the over hyped player among these two. I'm sure all of these players could also contribute in some way in Euroleague, but untill they do it at least on a college or higher level, I will place my bet on Doncic. It's funny how you are hyping up college/high school players, yet say people are overating a player that has already proven himself at a very high level. Oh and Doncic was already putting up 40+ point triple doubles against U18 competition when he was just 15 so yeah I'm sure having the ultimate green light against teenagers would make him look like a complete player.

[Mirotic12]

Who said anything about dominating? All of them could contribute if given the same opportunity as Doncic, though. On pure skil level, they all more than hold their own against Doncic. Sorry I'm not buying the generational talent hype that is being propagated.

If by contribute you mean make a roster and maybe play 5 minutes a game here and there, then yeah, they could all definitely contribute.

Fultz is number 1 on most draft boards, and as I already said here, at absolute best case scenario, the Fultz I saw in NCAA this season, would be like Mado Lo was in Brose. Playing 10 minutes a game........at best case scenario.

There is truly nothing Fultz was doing this year in NCAA that would have been all that useful to any EuroLeague team.

Ball - I think he would have a role something like Stefan Peno has in Barca (3rd string point guard).

Tatum - I don't think he would get any playing time in EuroLeague. Every team has 2 more useful small forwards (at the moment) than him.

I do like Ball and especially Tatum as players. Nothing against them as players. But at age 18, they wouldn't be doing anything in EuroLeague.

And none of this really means much about Doncic. He may just be an early bloomer, like Rubio. With that being said, there is no reason to justify other players his age and their worth, by making up that they would also be good EuroLeague players, when you can see from how they play in NCAA, or high school, or whatever, that they would have no chance at making any impact in EuroLeague at that age. Doncic is better than them at that age. It's not debatable, AT ALL.

Will he better at age 21, or 25? Who knows, maybe he won't. Because, it is very likely he's an early bloomer, like Rubio. Still does not change the fact that he's for sure better at age 18 than any of those players now at age 18 or 19 are.

You really don't seem to understand the differences in the levels of NBA, EuroLeague, NCAA DI, and how they measure against each other, and how big those differences are or are not.

[Bob8]

@mirotic12

Zisis played 16 seasons in Euroleague,

3pts- 30%
2pts- 47%
Ft- 78%

And this is really low numbers for any kind of guard.

When we're talking about Doncic and his creations of shots we have to have in mind at least 2 things.

He's 18 years old. At least we must give him benefit of doubt that he will improve in this area. I don't know how Bird looked at Doncic's age, but I'm sure he was way better when he was 25 years old than 18.

Second thing is, where he's playing. We all know who has keys in Real. Doncic primary task is not creating his shots, but creating for others. I'm sure he would create many shots more for himself, If he hava been playing in Olimpija.

[Mirotic12]

@mirotic12

Zisis played 16 seasons in Euroleague,

3pts- 30%
2pts- 47%
Ft- 78%

And this is really low numbers for any kind of guard.

When we're talking about Doncic and his creations of shots we have to have in mind at least 2 things.

He's 18 years old. At least we must give him benefit of doubt that he will improve in this area. I don't know how Bird looked at Doncic's age, but I'm sure he was way better when he was 25 years old than 18.

Second thing is, where he's playing. We all know who has keys in Real. Doncic primary task is not creating his shots, but creating for others. I'm sure he would create many shots more for himself, If he hava been playing in Olimpija.

You compared Zisis (the best mid range shooter in Europe) to Calathes (the worst shooting point guard of all time maybe) in terms of shooting. Come on...let's please try to keep the discussion serious.

[reanimator]

For sure would Fultz, Ball, Tatum... dominate in Euroleague, because they're older, more skilled and far more athletic than Doncic.

Who said anything about dominating? All of them could contribute if given the same opportunity as Doncic, though. On pure skil level, they all more than hold their own against Doncic. Sorry I'm not buying the generational talent hype that is being propagated.

Why are you pulling this "generational talent" thing in the conversation when no one mentioned it or even implied it. You are acting like it's controversial to say Doncic, who is already playing at a very high level purely because of his skill level, is more skilled than a player who just came out of high school, so I would not say Doncic is the over hyped player among these two. I'm sure all of these players could also contribute in some way in Euroleague, but untill they do it at least on a college or higher level, I will place my bet on Doncic. It's funny how you are hyping up college/high school players, yet say people are overating a player that has already proven himself at a very high level. Oh and Doncic was already putting up 40+ point triple doubles against U18 competition when he was just 15 so yeah I'm sure having the ultimate green light against teenagers would make him look like a complete player.

If you are saying he is far and away more skilled than guys like Fultz, Tatum, etc then you are saying he is a generational talent.

And I don't care what Doncic did in U18 tournament that did not include American prospects. The EYBL, for example, is stronger than those Euro FIBA tournaments.

[Mirotic12]

Who said anything about dominating? All of them could contribute if given the same opportunity as Doncic, though. On pure skil level, they all more than hold their own against Doncic. Sorry I'm not buying the generational talent hype that is being propagated.

Why are you pulling this "generational talent" thing in the conversation when no one mentioned it or even implied it. You are acting like it's controversial to say Doncic, who is already playing at a very high level purely because of his skill level, is more skilled than a player who just came out of high school, so I would not say Doncic is the over hyped player among these two. I'm sure all of these players could also contribute in some way in Euroleague, but untill they do it at least on a college or higher level, I will place my bet on Doncic. It's funny how you are hyping up college/high school players, yet say people are overating a player that has already proven himself at a very high level. Oh and Doncic was already putting up 40+ point triple doubles against U18 competition when he was just 15 so yeah I'm sure having the ultimate green light against teenagers would make him look like a complete player.

If you are saying he is far and away more skilled than guys like Fultz, Tatum, etc then you are saying he is a generational talent.

And I don't care what Doncic did in U18 tournament that did not include American prospects. The EYBL, for example, is stronger than those Euro FIBA tournaments.

Antetokounmpo didn't do much of anything in those Euro FIBA tournaments...a couple months later he was starting in the NBA.

[reanimator]

What skills does Porter have besides shooting that are fairly developed?

Shooting is a generic term so lets break it down
The ability to isolate and knock down pull ups or finish at the cup. The ability to play off ball as a shooter and filling in the lanes in transition.
Doncic's passing ability/spatial awareness isn't somehow more of a skill than Porter's.

[Bob8]

@mirotic12

Zisis played 16 seasons in Euroleague,

3pts- 30%
2pts- 47%
Ft- 78%

And this is really low numbers for any kind of guard.

When we're talking about Doncic and his creations of shots we have to have in mind at least 2 things.

He's 18 years old. At least we must give him benefit of doubt that he will improve in this area. I don't know how Bird looked at Doncic's age, but I'm sure he was way better when he was 25 years old than 18.

Second thing is, where he's playing. We all know who has keys in Real. Doncic primary task is not creating his shots, but creating for others. I'm sure he would create many shots more for himself, If he hava been playing in Olimpija.

You compared Zisis (the best mid range shooter in Europe) to Calathes (the worst shooting point guard of all time maybe) in terms of shooting. Come on...let's try to keep the discussion serious.

I just said that Zisis is nearer to Calathes than to Doncic. And stats say I'm right.

Doncic 38% 3pt, 53% 2-pt.

Calathes 28%, 51%.

And leave this middle range shooting out of it, because we all know how basketball is being played last years.

[reanimator]

Why are you pulling this "generational talent" thing in the conversation when no one mentioned it or even implied it. You are acting like it's controversial to say Doncic, who is already playing at a very high level purely because of his skill level, is more skilled than a player who just came out of high school, so I would not say Doncic is the over hyped player among these two. I'm sure all of these players could also contribute in some way in Euroleague, but untill they do it at least on a college or higher level, I will place my bet on Doncic. It's funny how you are hyping up college/high school players, yet say people are overating a player that has already proven himself at a very high level. Oh and Doncic was already putting up 40+ point triple doubles against U18 competition when he was just 15 so yeah I'm sure having the ultimate green light against teenagers would make him look like a complete player.

If you are saying he is far and away more skilled than guys like Fultz, Tatum, etc then you are saying he is a generational talent.

And I don't care what Doncic did in U18 tournament that did not include American prospects. The EYBL, for example, is stronger than those Euro FIBA tournaments.

Antetokounmpo didn't do much of anything in those Euro FIBA tournaments...a couple months later he was starting in the NBA.

And Giannis is an outlier with freakish NBA tool who is just now starting to fulfill some of his potential. He was more potential than production his first year in the NBA and was thrown in the fire not because he was warranted the minutes but to develop.

[soulzen]

Who said anything about dominating? All of them could contribute if given the same opportunity as Doncic, though. On pure skil level, they all more than hold their own against Doncic. Sorry I'm not buying the generational talent hype that is being propagated.

Why are you pulling this "generational talent" thing in the conversation when no one mentioned it or even implied it. You are acting like it's controversial to say Doncic, who is already playing at a very high level purely because of his skill level, is more skilled than a player who just came out of high school, so I would not say Doncic is the over hyped player among these two. I'm sure all of these players could also contribute in some way in Euroleague, but untill they do it at least on a college or higher level, I will place my bet on Doncic. It's funny how you are hyping up college/high school players, yet say people are overating a player that has already proven himself at a very high level. Oh and Doncic was already putting up 40+ point triple doubles against U18 competition when he was just 15 so yeah I'm sure having the ultimate green light against teenagers would make him look like a complete player.

If you are saying he is far and away more skilled than guys like Fultz, Tatum, etc then you are saying he is a generational talent.

And I don't care what Doncic did in U18 tournament that did not include American prospects. The EYBL, for example, is stronger than those Euro FIBA tournaments.

I didn't compare him to Fultz or Tatum in the first place so whatever you say. I was talking about Porters skill set, if you give Doncic elite athleticisim then I would call him borderline generational talent, at least for European standards. So you don't care what Doncic did against lower level competition and you claim Porter is more skilled than Doncic based on his performances against high schoolers? It's clear that you use this argument only when it suits your claims, when someone argues that Doncic is better than any other American prospect you don't hesitate to come up with stupid claims like you did earlier. Do I think Doncic is more skilled than Porter? yes I do and I think he proved it, but I also think Porter will turn out to be a more complete player and has a higher ceiling if he lives up to his potential.