Around the NBA: Playoff Edition #2

[DuckIII]

Goddammit, Duck.

I don't think Hinkie is poop. I just think what he did is ordinary and that the mystique that he was some sort of revolutionary genius is bogus.

Also, after reading his resignation letter I would have serious reservations about my team hiring him to lead my FO. It was borderline delusional.

But I'm not one of those "Hinkie is bad for basketball" guys.

After watching the Bulls play and FO the last couple of years, I'd take the process in a heartbeat.

He's not some revolutionary, teams have been tanking for a bit but he just did it masterfully. All the extra lotto picks. Just want in place to draft the generational talent.

I have been wanting to blow it to high hell since last summer. But you don't need Hinkie to build through the draft.

[Ice Man]

But you don't need Hinkie to build through the draft.

If that's the only way to get rid of Gar, sign me up. I'll be a True Hinkie Believer. Just get Mr. Anti Modern Analytics the **** outta here ... I don't need numbers, I just talk to my ex-Iowa State buddies. Sheesh. I need a shower now.

[RedBulls23]

Read on Twitter

Why does this dude, Nick Wright, look like a neanderthal?

[RedBulls23]

The biggest myth... Lebron James can defend 5 positions.

[Ice Man]

Read on Twitter

Playoff points per game, starting with MJ's second year -

44
36
36
35
31
35
35

LeBron's past 5 years

26
27
30
26
34

So that would be one thing.

[RedBulls23]

Read on Twitter

Playoff points per game, starting with MJ's second year -

44
36
36
35
31
35
35

LeBron's past 5 years

26
27
30
26
34

So that would be one thing.

[RedBulls23]

Read on Twitter

Playoff points per game, starting with MJ's second year -

44
36
36
35
31
35
35

LeBron's past 5 years

26
27
30
26
34

So that would be one thing.

Defense

[Axxo]

Read on Twitter

Playoff points per game, starting with MJ's second year -

44
36
36
35
31
35
35

LeBron's past 5 years

26
27
30
26
34

So that would be one thing.

Defense

Mental toughness

[RedBulls23]

And the assists narrative is such BS too. Jordan played in the triangle, usually off the ball.

Oh, Jordan also had the better post game. Jordan mastered footwork in the post, meanwhile if Lebron can't over power you in the post, he doesn't know how to move his feet to get himself a better shot.

[Axxo]

And the assists narrative is such BS too. Jordan played in the triangle, usually off the ball.

Oh, Jordan also had the better post game. Jordan mastered footwork in the post, meanwhile if Lebron can't over power you in the post, he doesn't know how to move his feet to get himself a better shot.

Right and if he is not allowed to push off with his forearm when he drives its like he completely shuts down.

[Ice Man]

Defense

Eh, LeBron defends pretty well, very well when he wants too. Mental toughness of course there is no comparison. It took LeBron a decade to become a playoff leader. MJ was there from Day 1.

Six Finals against 5 different opponents, 6 wins. Beat Magic, Clyde, Barkley, Payton, Stockton, Malone -- almost a Who's Who of Nineties All Stars. That is Jordan's most powerful card, and is a powerful card indeed.

[Ice Man]

Right and if he is not allowed to push off with his forearm when he drives its like he completely shuts down.

But he is always allowed.

I like LeBron more than most of you guys, and will defend him in many contexts, but one serious criticism that needs to be made about LeBron is that he depends on offensive fouls. The NBA permits him to push off multiple times per game, in a way that is otherwise an offensive foul, and that permission is important for LeBron's success. As you point out, LeBRon does not have classic post footwork; his drives depend on overpowering his opponents. That's not so tough to do when you are allowed to foul.

[The Senator]

Westbrook for MVP...

Actually, LeBron. He is the only one who always shows up. But I think after 4 trophies they stop giving them out.

I still have Westbrook as my MVP. He carried a far inferior surrounding cast into the playoffs through his sheer willpower and set historic numbers doing so. Cavs without LeBron are still a top team in the east. Thunder without Westbrook are high in the lottery.

[RedBulls23]

Defense

Eh, LeBron defends pretty well, very well when he wants too. Mental toughness of course there is no comparison. It took LeBron a decade to become a playoff leader. MJ was there from Day 1.

Six Finals against 5 different opponents, 6 wins. Beat Magic, Clyde, Barkley, Payton, Stockton, Malone -- almost a Who's Who of Nineties All Stars. That is Jordan's most powerful card, and is a powerful card indeed.

Jordan is still the better defender though. Not saying Lebron isn't, but Jordan proved his elite ness on that end by going out and winning that DPOY.

[TheStig]

He's not some revolutionary, teams have been tanking for a bit but he just did it masterfully. All the extra lotto picks. Just want in place to draft the generational talent.

I see that Hinkie unloaded MCW for a draft pick that was Top 5 protected in Year 1, Top 3 protected in Year 2, and unprotected in Year 3. That was quite some deal. It strikes me that today's GMs aren't so free and easy about handing out unprotected first round picks, and that it might be difficult for Hinkie to duplicate such trades in his next gig, but perhaps I am wrong.

I mean there is always a GM on the hotseat and desperate to make a move. And to be fair, MCW looks like hot garbage now. But it takes some guys to do it right after he was ROY.

He doesn't just have the Lakers pick. He had a potentially valuable pick swap with the Kings, a 2019 Kings pick, a Thunder pick, a 2016 cavs pick, 2013#5, 2014#9.

There were a lot of picks. The balls just didn't bounce the right way at the right time. But that team is loaded from his haul. I'd love to have Embid, Simmons, Saric and possible 2 lotto picks coming this year and a Kings pick in the near future.

[micromonkey]

Michael completed the "hero cycle"
Fought and lost against the "Big bad'
Then Finally defeated them

LeBron lost against the big bad, lost and ran away.
He found 2 other Heroes to help--one who had already defeated the beast
He disappeared vs Mavs--D Wade was trying to make stuff happen--he just ghosted. (Harden ghosted real bad last night).
Jordan never had this--he did have bad games and bad rust vs. Orlando--but it was not for lack of trying or mentally disappearing and becoming passive.

There is no comparison. Scoring, D the regular stat stuff you can find them close or give Lebron the edge here or there.
Mental toughness and perseverance its like 10-1 Jordan.

Part of it is Lebron has more physical gifts--Jordan was a scrawny kid who had a late growth spurt--always had to fight harder as a result.

Nick Right was probably watching Soccer when Jordan was in his prime.

[TheStig]

Playoff points per game, starting with MJ's second year -

44
36
36
35
31
35
35

LeBron's past 5 years

26
27
30
26
34

So that would be one thing.

Defense

Mental toughness

Getting to the line in an Era where his primary rival was allowed to physically assault him.

Bron averages the same FTA in an era where he complains about missed calls about handchecking and holding. Jordan complained about missed calls when a prime Rodman, Mahorn and Lambeer knocked him around in the air and made sure he landed hard.

[TheStig]

I don't think Hinkie is poop. I just think what he did is ordinary and that the mystique that he was some sort of revolutionary genius is bogus.

Also, after reading his resignation letter I would have serious reservations about my team hiring him to lead my FO. It was borderline delusional.

But I'm not one of those "Hinkie is bad for basketball" guys.

After watching the Bulls play and FO the last couple of years, I'd take the process in a heartbeat.

He's not some revolutionary, teams have been tanking for a bit but he just did it masterfully. All the extra lotto picks. Just want in place to draft the generational talent.

I have been wanting to blow it to high hell since last summer. But you don't need Hinkie to build through the draft.

You don't need Hinkie to blow it up. But I think he really maximized the tank. He literally got the most picks out of anyone and had guts to part with a ROY that he knew wasn't going to be good.

Meanwhile, we trade multiple picks for Doug McD.

I don't think GarPax have it in them to suck it up. They really like being in the playoff mix. They look for the quick rebuild instead of a 2,3,4 year process.

[ATRAIN53]

LeBron vs MJ

The argument will go on forever.

If you measure it in trophies then none of these guys are in Bill Russel's league.
But there are so many other things you can measure it by.

I kinda think that LeBron is in that 2nd Jordan three peat territory now. If he pulls off the repeat this year (and he will) and then another after that in CLE - I'll start buying into him being on MJ's level. But he's got minimum of 2 more to win in CLE. He really should be gong for the 3peat this year anyways, he knows it too.

I'd like to sit and argue that MJ did more for the NBA in reagrds to EXPANSION and how they added a handful of franchises during his reign. But the NBA is bigger and more profitable than ever and more players are making BANK now and that is very much due to LeBron carrying the sport.

Another thing to consider will be what kind of an owner/GM LeGMn will be when he buys his team. If he turns out to be a better owner and wins some titles for his franchise, that's something folks can debate in the future. Like imagine if he buys the Nets and builds a dynasty.

[Ice Man]

Cavs without LeBron are still a top team in the east.

Look up how the Cavs did this year when LeBron was off the court. They were TERRIBLE. Worse than the Bulls without Jimmy Butler. Kyrie and Love are the luckiest players in the NBA. They couldn't lead a horse to water, but they have LeBron there to bail them out.