Trade Post-Mortem 2017: Eight is Enough

[Banks2Pierce]

If it comes down to it, I'd take Butler instead. 2 years on hid deal, plenty of time to convince him to stay. Same player, just shorter still great competitor, questionable knees tho.

The extra year on his deal may open up his market to the Denvers and Phillys of the world, though.

[Homerclease]

For fun.. Let's say Indy lets the draft pass without moving Paul George. Then as the season approaches, they start feeling the heat to make a move. Who offers a better deal than Smart/Jaylen/2018 pick. Who can top such an offer? I don't see LA offering Ingram. And I would see Indy wanting to rebuild rather than retool with a veteran.

That deal doesn't work under the cap. You're off like 10 million bucks

You can throw in the fillers as needed. (expirings)

Like who? We already cut bait with everyone to sign Hayward. Or did we strike out in this scenario?

[Edug27]

Who offers a better deal than Smart/Jaylen/2018 pick. Who can top such an offer?

Who is going to top *only the 2018 pick* considering the weirdness of his pending FA? Lakers are especially in a weird spot if he is planning on going there and also could be roster thin at the top if they miss out on a 2017 lotto pick. Is there a good team out there that will part with a decent asset and can also still be good enough to be confident in retaining George? He's so good that the calculus on it could be weird and open up Lillard and other guys like that.

If it comes down to it, I'd take Butler instead. 2 years on hid deal, plenty of time to convince him to stay. Same player, just shorter still great competitor, questionable knees tho.

I doubt Butler gets moved until he's in the last year of his deal.

[Edug27]

That deal doesn't work under the cap. You're off like 10 million bucks

You can throw in the fillers as needed. (expirings)

Like who? We already cut bait with everyone to sign Hayward. Or did we strike out in this scenario?

I didn't take that move into consideration for my hypothetical

[Homerclease]

You can throw in the fillers as needed. (expirings)

Like who? We already cut bait with everyone to sign Hayward. Or did we strike out in this scenario?

I didn't take that move into consideration for my hypothetical

Well, I wouldn't do the deal if we don't land the free agent.

[Edug27]

Like who? We already cut bait with everyone to sign Hayward. Or did we strike out in this scenario?

I didn't take that move into consideration for my hypothetical

Well, I wouldn't do the deal if we don't land the free agent.

Wait.. So if you don't land Gordon, then you don't attempt to trade for PG?

This roster doesn't make you excited in any way?

IT / Rozier
Bradley / Fultz (assuming we get him)
George / Crowder
Horford / KO
Zizic

.... hmm... Interesting. So let's say gordon resigns... What's your ideal next move?

[Homerclease]

I didn't take that move into consideration for my hypothetical

Well, I wouldn't do the deal if we don't land the free agent.

Wait.. So if you don't land Gordon, then you don't attempt to trade for PG?

This roster doesn't make you excited in any way?

IT / Rozier
Bradley / Fultz (assuming we get him)
George / Crowder
Horford / KO
Zizic

.... hmm... Interesting. So let's say gordon resigns... What's your ideal next move?

No, not really. Still don't think it's good enough to push us over the top and you're pissing away two young assets on top of that.

Ideal next move if they strike out on a max? Split the cap room to bring in 2 capable big men and come back with the same team plus picks and stashes

[Edug27]

Well, I wouldn't do the deal if we don't land the free agent.

Wait.. So if you don't land Gordon, then you don't attempt to trade for PG?

This roster doesn't make you excited in any way?

IT / Rozier
Bradley / Fultz (assuming we get him)
George / Crowder
Horford / KO
Zizic

.... hmm... Interesting. So let's say gordon resigns... What's your ideal next move?

No, not really. Still don't think it's good enough to push us over the top and you're pissing away two young assets on top of that.

Ideal next move if they strike out on a max? Split the cap room to bring in 2 capable big men and come back with the same team plus picks and stashes

Interesting. Can't really argue much there. Personally, I think if we had PG, Fultz and Zizic on our roster heading into a series against Cleveland, it'll be a competitive series... But yea, I have no issue giving up Jaylen... just not the 2018 pick without some restrictions.

[165bows]

What's your opinion of that without the Butler trade? Ie, if they could make two sign and trade deals?

Hard part is they trigger the hard cap and start coming on it quick. Needs to be some in season wiggle room.

Hard cap would be at roughly $135m, though. That team would come in easily below. We'd eat it hard on the lux tax for one year after that once IT needed to be resigned, but we'd survive.

If we kept the Nets pick and Crowder, that'd be OK too. But a little less strong at SG. Maybe sub Crowder in Griffin trade?

According to Smitty's sheets, it is $127M for the tax apron, I wish it was higher.

Hayward/Griffin would be $60.6M combined. With Horford and IT combined are $34M, making $32M left for everyone else. it looks doable if they ship out either Crowder or Bradley and bring in the Nets '17.

Most sensible way I could think of to structure it is send AB to the Clippers (maybe they work in acquiring Melo) with other salaries going out, while KO would get also sign and traded to Utah for a bulk of the salary to Utah. Then they'd need to send out the contracts of Zeller, also resign and trade out Jerebko and likely Amir, and probably James Young, along with Mickey. Yabu could wait another year.
Edit: so something like this -

IT/Smart/Jackson = $12.2M
Jaylen/Nets '17 (#1 overall)/Rozier = $14M
Hayward/Crowder/Nader = $37.9M
Griffin/fill in guy/fill in guy = $31.9M
Horford/Zizic/fill in guy = $30.2
Total of $126.15M, just under the hard cap!

Problem is, they wouldn't have room for any in-season add-ons which is pretty much a necessity. They would get a little more wiggle room with a lesser pick, or move a guy like Rozier, or Smart, who especially would open up more room.

Actually pretty psyched this is a potential option. I've been wanting to take a stab at that math for awhile.

This type of thing is far and away my first option for the off-season as IMO it maximizes the current team while still keeping max assets for the future.

[Captain_Caveman]

Hard cap would be at roughly $135m, though. That team would come in easily below. We'd eat it hard on the lux tax for one year after that once IT needed to be resigned, but we'd survive.

If we kept the Nets pick and Crowder, that'd be OK too. But a little less strong at SG. Maybe sub Crowder in Griffin trade?

According to Smitty's sheets, it is $127M for the tax apron, I wish it was higher.

Hayward/Griffin would be $60.6M combined. With Horford and IT combined are $34M, making $32M left for everyone else. it looks doable if they ship out either Crowder or Bradley and bring in the Nets '17.

Most sensible way I could think of to structure it is send AB to the Clippers (maybe they work in acquiring Melo) with other salaries going out, while KO would get also sign and traded to Utah for a bulk of the salary to Utah. Then they'd need to send out the contracts of Zeller, also resign and trade out Jerebko and likely Amir, and probably James Young, along with Mickey. Yabu could wait another year.
Edit: so something like this -

IT/Smart/Jackson = $12.2M
Jaylen/Nets '17 (#1 overall)/Rozier = $14M
Hayward/Crowder/Nader = $37.9M
Griffin/fill in guy/fill in guy = $31.9M
Horford/Zizic/fill in guy = $30.2
Total of $126.15M, just under the hard cap!

Problem is, they wouldn't have room for any in-season add-ons which is pretty much a necessity. They would get a little more wiggle room with a lesser pick, or move a guy like Rozier, or Smart, who especially would open up more room.

Actually pretty psyched this is a potential option. I've been wanting to take a stab at that math for awhile.

This type of thing is far and away my first option for the off-season as IMO it maximizes the current team while still keeping max assets for the future.

My bad on the hard cap. Brain fart, lol.

Good math, I'm down.

[Slartibartfast]

Hard cap would be at roughly $135m, though. That team would come in easily below. We'd eat it hard on the lux tax for one year after that once IT needed to be resigned, but we'd survive.

If we kept the Nets pick and Crowder, that'd be OK too. But a little less strong at SG. Maybe sub Crowder in Griffin trade?

According to Smitty's sheets, it is $127M for the tax apron, I wish it was higher.

Hayward/Griffin would be $60.6M combined. With Horford and IT combined are $34M, making $32M left for everyone else. it looks doable if they ship out either Crowder or Bradley and bring in the Nets '17.

Most sensible way I could think of to structure it is send AB to the Clippers (maybe they work in acquiring Melo) with other salaries going out, while KO would get also sign and traded to Utah for a bulk of the salary to Utah. Then they'd need to send out the contracts of Zeller, also resign and trade out Jerebko and likely Amir, and probably James Young, along with Mickey. Yabu could wait another year.
Edit: so something like this -

IT/Smart/Jackson = $12.2M
Jaylen/Nets '17 (#1 overall)/Rozier = $14M
Hayward/Crowder/Nader = $37.9M
Griffin/fill in guy/fill in guy = $31.9M
Horford/Zizic/fill in guy = $30.2
Total of $126.15M, just under the hard cap!

Problem is, they wouldn't have room for any in-season add-ons which is pretty much a necessity. They would get a little more wiggle room with a lesser pick, or move a guy like Rozier, or Smart, who especially would open up more room.

Actually pretty psyched this is a potential option. I've been wanting to take a stab at that math for awhile.

This type of thing is far and away my first option for the off-season as IMO it maximizes the current team while still keeping max assets for the future.

It's a good team, just wish I was a bigger fan of the individual players.

[165bows]

According to Smitty's sheets, it is $127M for the tax apron, I wish it was higher.

Hayward/Griffin would be $60.6M combined. With Horford and IT combined are $34M, making $32M left for everyone else. it looks doable if they ship out either Crowder or Bradley and bring in the Nets '17.

Most sensible way I could think of to structure it is send AB to the Clippers (maybe they work in acquiring Melo) with other salaries going out, while KO would get also sign and traded to Utah for a bulk of the salary to Utah. Then they'd need to send out the contracts of Zeller, also resign and trade out Jerebko and likely Amir, and probably James Young, along with Mickey. Yabu could wait another year.
Edit: so something like this -

IT/Smart/Jackson = $12.2M
Jaylen/Nets '17 (#1 overall)/Rozier = $14M
Hayward/Crowder/Nader = $37.9M
Griffin/fill in guy/fill in guy = $31.9M
Horford/Zizic/fill in guy = $30.2
Total of $126.15M, just under the hard cap!

Problem is, they wouldn't have room for any in-season add-ons which is pretty much a necessity. They would get a little more wiggle room with a lesser pick, or move a guy like Rozier, or Smart, who especially would open up more room.

Actually pretty psyched this is a potential option. I've been wanting to take a stab at that math for awhile.

This type of thing is far and away my first option for the off-season as IMO it maximizes the current team while still keeping max assets for the future.

My bad on the hard cap. Brain fart, lol.

Good math, I'm down.

I finally found it on Smitty's worksheets, was having a hard time finding that definitive number too.

Here's my best take on the outgoing salary:

For Hayward - Utah gets Olynyk at $19.3M (descending 4 year contract), Mickey $1.5M (can be waived), Nader $1.1M, signed #36 pick $.82M, then Young to Utah or another team at $2.85M.

For Griffin - LAC gets Bradley at $8.8M, then either to LA or another team is Zeller at $8M, plus also Amir and Jerebko need to combine to around $8M again to LAC or elsewhere. A Melo trade to LA may make this easier for their rotation, or harder to stay under the hard cap. They may have to pay off teams to take some of those guys as well.

Other part I'd have to check is that would trigger hard caps for both Utah and LAC, so that would have to work on their end. LAC is pretty much hard capped every year and Utah probably doesn't spend over that anyways. So as long as the numbers fit it's workable.

Other pieces could of course get added in to make it easier, LAC/Mem picks, Yabs, Rozier/Smart, and future seconds or Celtics picks.

So again it's really tight but the more I look at the numbers the more it looks like an outside possibility.

[165bows]

According to Smitty's sheets, it is $127M for the tax apron, I wish it was higher.

Hayward/Griffin would be $60.6M combined. With Horford and IT combined are $34M, making $32M left for everyone else. it looks doable if they ship out either Crowder or Bradley and bring in the Nets '17.

Most sensible way I could think of to structure it is send AB to the Clippers (maybe they work in acquiring Melo) with other salaries going out, while KO would get also sign and traded to Utah for a bulk of the salary to Utah. Then they'd need to send out the contracts of Zeller, also resign and trade out Jerebko and likely Amir, and probably James Young, along with Mickey. Yabu could wait another year.
Edit: so something like this -

IT/Smart/Jackson = $12.2M
Jaylen/Nets '17 (#1 overall)/Rozier = $14M
Hayward/Crowder/Nader = $37.9M
Griffin/fill in guy/fill in guy = $31.9M
Horford/Zizic/fill in guy = $30.2
Total of $126.15M, just under the hard cap!

Problem is, they wouldn't have room for any in-season add-ons which is pretty much a necessity. They would get a little more wiggle room with a lesser pick, or move a guy like Rozier, or Smart, who especially would open up more room.

Actually pretty psyched this is a potential option. I've been wanting to take a stab at that math for awhile.

This type of thing is far and away my first option for the off-season as IMO it maximizes the current team while still keeping max assets for the future.

It's a good team, just wish I was a bigger fan of the individual players.

Yeah it's really vanilla personality-wise outside of Blake and Isaiah. Blake has plenty of douchey spells while Isaiah is pretty natural to root for so IMO they kind of cancel each other out.

If they draft Tatum or someone it could be the all bland team for sure.

[Slartibartfast]

Actually pretty psyched this is a potential option. I've been wanting to take a stab at that math for awhile.

This type of thing is far and away my first option for the off-season as IMO it maximizes the current team while still keeping max assets for the future.

It's a good team, just wish I was a bigger fan of the individual players.

Yeah it's really vanilla personality-wise outside of Blake and Isaiah. Blake has plenty of douchey spells while Isaiah is pretty natural to root for so IMO they kind of cancel each other out.

If they draft Tatum or someone it could be the all bland team for sure.

I think Blake and Isaiah are both irritating, Blake more for off-court and IT more for on-court.

It would be different if they were homegrown - I loved Toine and Pierce even when other fans hated them because they were ours. A core entirely comprised of FA signings and trade acquisitions just isn't the same.

Even with KG/Ray, we had Pierce as the long-suffering homegrown star, plus a boatload of our own guys surrounding them - Rondo, Perk, Powe, Baby. It helped that KG just gushed green out of every pore too and was the ultimate team player (has anybody been more revved up to set picks and play team defense than KG?).

[PhillySixers22]

Right now I don't think there's a more interesting team in the league. There's so many potential ways to go and all of them should have fans excited. As much of a risk as he is in terms of health, I think Blake should be the top target in free agency. When healthy he just fixes so many of your teams weaknesses, he can create his own offense and clean up the glass, paired with Horford would be the best passing frontcourt in the league, and he doesn't cost high end assets or core players. Just seems like a perfect match imo. If Griffin were to sign, go all in for Butler or George and you're looking at an immediate contender. The most fun part about all these scenarios is that they're all realistic possibilities, quite the enviable position to be in.

[165bows]

According to Smitty's sheets, it is $127M for the tax apron, I wish it was higher.

Hayward/Griffin would be $60.6M combined. With Horford and IT combined are $34M, making $32M left for everyone else. it looks doable if they ship out either Crowder or Bradley and bring in the Nets '17.

Most sensible way I could think of to structure it is send AB to the Clippers (maybe they work in acquiring Melo) with other salaries going out, while KO would get also sign and traded to Utah for a bulk of the salary to Utah. Then they'd need to send out the contracts of Zeller, also resign and trade out Jerebko and likely Amir, and probably James Young, along with Mickey. Yabu could wait another year.
Edit: so something like this -

IT/Smart/Jackson = $12.2M
Jaylen/Nets '17 (#1 overall)/Rozier = $14M
Hayward/Crowder/Nader = $37.9M
Griffin/fill in guy/fill in guy = $31.9M
Horford/Zizic/fill in guy = $30.2
Total of $126.15M, just under the hard cap!

Problem is, they wouldn't have room for any in-season add-ons which is pretty much a necessity. They would get a little more wiggle room with a lesser pick, or move a guy like Rozier, or Smart, who especially would open up more room.

Actually pretty psyched this is a potential option. I've been wanting to take a stab at that math for awhile.

This type of thing is far and away my first option for the off-season as IMO it maximizes the current team while still keeping max assets for the future.

My bad on the hard cap. Brain fart, lol.

Good math, I'm down.

What's better, this scenario or just signing Hayward and keeping Bradley and grabbing a stop gap PF? Say e.g. trading for Trevor Booker?

Obviously Blake is better in the short-term, just not sure over a four year deal.

[Gomes3PC]

Right now I don't think there's a more interesting team in the league. There's so many potential ways to go and all of them should have fans excited. As much of a risk as he is in terms of health, I think Blake should be the top target in free agency. When healthy he just fixes so many of your teams weaknesses, he can create his own offense and clean up the glass, paired with Horford would be the best passing frontcourt in the league, and he doesn't cost high end assets or core players. Just seems like a perfect match imo. If Griffin were to sign, go all in for Butler or George and you're looking at an immediate contender. The most fun part about all these scenarios is that they're all realistic possibilities, quite the enviable position to be in.

Yeah, if Blake's knees were not so terrifying, he's perfect. We need rebounding - check. We need some muscle inside - check. We need a guy who can create for others - check. We need someone who can get a bucket in crunch time - check.

He's not additive defensively but I doubt he's worse than what we've had at PF most of the playoffs - either balky Amir or undersized guys like Brown, Crowder and Jonas. I also think his 3 point shooting is real. He's got great FT form and has always been reliable from 18-20 feet.

He could be Kevin Love for the Celtics; the question is just how many games will you get from him the next four years. Would not shock me if that number got set somewhere in the 200-220 range. Something to note is that Ray Allen had similar concerns before he was traded to Boston. Maybe not as extreme as Blake but he was also older and those ankle injuries were terrifying for a pure jump shooter like him.

[PhillySixers22]

Right now I don't think there's a more interesting team in the league. There's so many potential ways to go and all of them should have fans excited. As much of a risk as he is in terms of health, I think Blake should be the top target in free agency. When healthy he just fixes so many of your teams weaknesses, he can create his own offense and clean up the glass, paired with Horford would be the best passing frontcourt in the league, and he doesn't cost high end assets or core players. Just seems like a perfect match imo. If Griffin were to sign, go all in for Butler or George and you're looking at an immediate contender. The most fun part about all these scenarios is that they're all realistic possibilities, quite the enviable position to be in.

Yeah, if Blake's knees were not so terrifying, he's perfect. We need rebounding - check. We need some muscle inside - check. We need a guy who can create for others - check. We need someone who can get a bucket in crunch time - check.

He's not additive defensively but I doubt he's worse than what we've had at PF most of the playoffs - either balky Amir or undersized guys like Brown, Crowder and Jonas. I also think his 3 point shooting is real. He's got great FT form and has always been reliable from 18-20 feet.

He could be Kevin Love for the Celtics; the question is just how many games will you get from him the next four years. Would not shock me if that number got set somewhere in the 200-220 range. Something to note is that Ray Allen had similar concerns before he was traded to Boston. Maybe not as extreme as Blake but he was also older and those ankle injuries were terrifying for a pure jump shooter like him.

I think he's worth the risk. Hayward is the only other top level free agent target but he doesn't fill the positional need Blake does. Unless they could swing something involving Crowder (Hayward replaces him) for a high end big the lack up front will still kill them in the postseason, especially against Cleveland. Maybe Miami blows it up and Whiteside can be had or LAC and DeAndre. I don't see a better option than taking the risk on Blake and depending on cap situation making a move for Butler or PG13.

[Gomes3PC]

If Blake goes elsewhere or Doc gets fired, I could see Jordan becoming available. Just not as sure of the fit with Horford and him. I don't think you can play both for 35 MPG and I doubt they fit in crunch time. I do love DAJs game though.

[Romeiro Celtic]

Would a trade for Klay Thompson with the Warriors in the offseason make any sense??

Boston trades: Avery Bradley, Tyller Zeller, Future Pick
Warriors trades: Klay Thompson

Why would any of those make these trades?

Warriors: Klay is showing that he is not fiting well alongside Durant + Curry, moving him would give them cap space for making some move to at least sign a better role player and they get in Avery a great defensive anchor.

Celtics: Avery has been great for us these 7 years he's been with us, but we can't deny he is going to demand more than 15 million grands when 2018 summer hits, it would hit our cap space, but would give us a good defender, good scorer and a good strenght, we would have to go after a big for rebounding and rim protection.

PG: IT/Rozier/Rookie
SG: Klay/Smart
SF: Crowder/Jaylen
PF: Horford/Yabusele
C: FA Sign/Zizic