2017 1st Rd Trade up / trade down thread

[Ericb5]

ORL gets Knight and 4
PHI gets Hezonja, 6, 25, and 2018 MIA 1st
PHX gets Okafor and 3

Ohhh, I like this.

I also really like our 3 for the 5 & 10. Monk @ 5 and BPA @ 10. Isaac / Ntilikina / whichever surprise is still left at 10.

As to trading up, as others noted, Ainge probably wants too much from us in assets. We are not giving up Saric to move up. BUT, after Cleveland unceremoniously bounces Boston, I could see Ainge more inclined to swing a deal with Chi for Butler. Funny thought is, maybe we don't do a deal with CHI at all. If they move Butler that really opens a huge hole at SF. Hey, if they take Jackson, a mild surprise but not completely unreasonable, I think we land Fultz at 3.

I like the idea of this. Would be fine with something like 3 and Okafor for 5 and 10.

I'm ambivalent about Jackson. He's probably the third best prospect in this draft and I think that if you stay at 3, he's the guy you take, but the weak fit combined with the poor shooting, poor length, and the fact that he's a year older than his class makes me a lot more cautious than most about drafting him.

I really like Isaac and would be very fine with trading down and taking Isaac at 5 and whoever is left at 10 (assuming Fox goes much sooner, one of DSJ, Monk, Ntilikina, maybe Mitchell).

Shooting struggles, lack of length, and his age are legit criticisms of him, but calling him a poor fit isn't fair.

He fits beautifully. He just doesn't solve our need for shooters.

Plug him in as a wing and he will become our third best player quickly.


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[TTP]

Ohhh, I like this.

I also really like our 3 for the 5 & 10. Monk @ 5 and BPA @ 10. Isaac / Ntilikina / whichever surprise is still left at 10.

As to trading up, as others noted, Ainge probably wants too much from us in assets. We are not giving up Saric to move up. BUT, after Cleveland unceremoniously bounces Boston, I could see Ainge more inclined to swing a deal with Chi for Butler. Funny thought is, maybe we don't do a deal with CHI at all. If they move Butler that really opens a huge hole at SF. Hey, if they take Jackson, a mild surprise but not completely unreasonable, I think we land Fultz at 3.

I like the idea of this. Would be fine with something like 3 and Okafor for 5 and 10.

I'm ambivalent about Jackson. He's probably the third best prospect in this draft and I think that if you stay at 3, he's the guy you take, but the weak fit combined with the poor shooting, poor length, and the fact that he's a year older than his class makes me a lot more cautious than most about drafting him.

I really like Isaac and would be very fine with trading down and taking Isaac at 5 and whoever is left at 10 (assuming Fox goes much sooner, one of DSJ, Monk, Ntilikina, maybe Mitchell).

Shooting struggles, lack of length, and his age are legit criticisms of him, but calling him a poor fit isn't fair.

He fits beautifully. He just doesn't solve our need for shooters.

Plug him in as a wing and he will become our third best player quickly.


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I mean that's why he's a weak fit. I firmly believe that if you want to be a championship contender, 3 of your 4 non-centers need to be positive 3 point shooters (or at least be threatening enough from a spacing perspective like a Draymond or Iguodala).

There is a very real risk that Jackson is a sub 30% shooter from 3, and that makes for an extremely suspect fit next to Simmons.

[Kobblehead]

I wonder if #36 and #39 can get us up to the late 20s. We NEED to land Derrick White.

[Unbreakable99]

I like the idea of this. Would be fine with something like 3 and Okafor for 5 and 10.

I'm ambivalent about Jackson. He's probably the third best prospect in this draft and I think that if you stay at 3, he's the guy you take, but the weak fit combined with the poor shooting, poor length, and the fact that he's a year older than his class makes me a lot more cautious than most about drafting him.

I really like Isaac and would be very fine with trading down and taking Isaac at 5 and whoever is left at 10 (assuming Fox goes much sooner, one of DSJ, Monk, Ntilikina, maybe Mitchell).

Shooting struggles, lack of length, and his age are legit criticisms of him, but calling him a poor fit isn't fair.

He fits beautifully. He just doesn't solve our need for shooters.

Plug him in as a wing and he will become our third best player quickly.


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I mean that's why he's a weak fit. I firmly believe that if you want to be a championship contender, 3 of your 4 non-centers need to be positive 3 point shooters (or at least be threatening enough from a spacing perspective like a Draymond or Iguodala).

There is a very real risk that Jackson is a sub 30% shooter from 3, and that makes for an extremely suspect fit next to Simmons.

Who do you want at 3?

[Ericb5]

I like the idea of this. Would be fine with something like 3 and Okafor for 5 and 10.

I'm ambivalent about Jackson. He's probably the third best prospect in this draft and I think that if you stay at 3, he's the guy you take, but the weak fit combined with the poor shooting, poor length, and the fact that he's a year older than his class makes me a lot more cautious than most about drafting him.

I really like Isaac and would be very fine with trading down and taking Isaac at 5 and whoever is left at 10 (assuming Fox goes much sooner, one of DSJ, Monk, Ntilikina, maybe Mitchell).

Shooting struggles, lack of length, and his age are legit criticisms of him, but calling him a poor fit isn't fair.

He fits beautifully. He just doesn't solve our need for shooters.

Plug him in as a wing and he will become our third best player quickly.


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I mean that's why he's a weak fit. I firmly believe that if you want to be a championship contender, 3 of your 4 non-centers need to be positive 3 point shooters (or at least be threatening enough from a spacing perspective like a Draymond or Iguodala).

There is a very real risk that Jackson is a sub 30% shooter from 3, and that makes for an extremely suspect fit next to Simmons.

We have other needs other than shooters though, and he fills several of those. I don't see any reason why he can't be as good of a shooter as Iguodala. Of course he isn't perfect, but saying he doesn't fit isn't fair. Fitting isn't the same thing as solving our roster problems.

I just think that you can find role player shooters on the FA or trade market in time.

Jackson has an ultimate ceiling of someone like kawhi Leonard or Scottie Pippen, and a more realistic projection of someone like Latrell Sprewell. That kind of player fits with any roster.


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[leo921]

What do you think of Butler and Jerian Grant for #3, okafor and 18 Lakers pick

Philly, with good health, can make the playoffs next year and start being a domiant team.
? (Lowry)/grant
Butler/TLC
Covington/Saric
Simmons/Saric
Embiid/Holmes

or even deadlier
?
JJ Redick/TLC
Butler/Covington
Simmons/Saric
Embidd/Holmes

Bulls get to start over and rebuild. Thoughts?

[Unbreakable99]

What do you think of Butler and Jerian Grant for #3, okafor and 18 Lakers pick

Philly, with good health, can make the playoffs next year and start being a domiant team.
? (Lowry)/grant
Butler/TLC
Covington/Saric
Simmons/Saric
Embiid/Holmes

or even deadlier
?
JJ Redick/TLC
Butler/Covington
Simmons/Saric
Embidd/Holmes

Bulls get to start over and rebuild. Thoughts?

I think that is more than fair for us to do that trade but I don't think I want to trade for Butler even though I like him a lot. I'd rather keep our pick and build through the draft.

[LloydFree]

What do you think of Butler and Jerian Grant for #3, okafor and 18 Lakers pick

Philly, with good health, can make the playoffs next year and start being a domiant team.
? (Lowry)/grant
Butler/TLC
Covington/Saric
Simmons/Saric
Embiid/Holmes

or even deadlier
?
JJ Redick/TLC
Butler/Covington
Simmons/Saric
Embidd/Holmes

Bulls get to start over and rebuild. Thoughts?

Not interested. We 'bout to grow our own Jimmy Butler, when we draft this Josh Jackson.

[LongLiveHinkie]

Don't think the Kings would do 5 and 10 for 3, but with them you never know.

[Chris76]

What do you think of Butler and Jerian Grant for #3, okafor and 18 Lakers pick

Philly, with good health, can make the playoffs next year and start being a domiant team.
? (Lowry)/grant
Butler/TLC
Covington/Saric
Simmons/Saric
Embiid/Holmes

or even deadlier
?
JJ Redick/TLC
Butler/Covington
Simmons/Saric
Embidd/Holmes
L
Bulls get to start over and rebuild. Thoughts?

Not interested. We 'bout to grow our own Jimmy Butler, when we draft this Josh Jackson.

Josh jackson or alonzo ball would quickly grow into key roles without the cap hit and additional assets. Hopefully, that type of potential being added to simmons and embiid gives us a lot of options. No need to trade up or down, just take who falls to us. Having 3 or 4 promising young stars growing together is very special.

[TTP]

Shooting struggles, lack of length, and his age are legit criticisms of him, but calling him a poor fit isn't fair.

He fits beautifully. He just doesn't solve our need for shooters.

Plug him in as a wing and he will become our third best player quickly.


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I mean that's why he's a weak fit. I firmly believe that if you want to be a championship contender, 3 of your 4 non-centers need to be positive 3 point shooters (or at least be threatening enough from a spacing perspective like a Draymond or Iguodala).

There is a very real risk that Jackson is a sub 30% shooter from 3, and that makes for an extremely suspect fit next to Simmons.

Who do you want at 3?

I said that if we stay at 3, he's the guy you take.

I think trying to trade up or down are both probably better though. It's in our best interests to consolidate as much as possible so up makes more sense, but is much more difficult to accomplish.

[TTP]

Shooting struggles, lack of length, and his age are legit criticisms of him, but calling him a poor fit isn't fair.

He fits beautifully. He just doesn't solve our need for shooters.

Plug him in as a wing and he will become our third best player quickly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I mean that's why he's a weak fit. I firmly believe that if you want to be a championship contender, 3 of your 4 non-centers need to be positive 3 point shooters (or at least be threatening enough from a spacing perspective like a Draymond or Iguodala).

There is a very real risk that Jackson is a sub 30% shooter from 3, and that makes for an extremely suspect fit next to Simmons.

We have other needs other than shooters though, and he fills several of those. I don't see any reason why he can't be as good of a shooter as Iguodala. Of course he isn't perfect, but saying he doesn't fit isn't fair. Fitting isn't the same thing as solving our roster problems.

I just think that you can find role player shooters on the FA or trade market in time.

Jackson has an ultimate ceiling of someone like kawhi Leonard or Scottie Pippen, and a more realistic projection of someone like Latrell Sprewell. That kind of player fits with any roster.


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I don't think his ceiling is anywhere near Kawhi and it seems ridiculous to suggest that comparison.

Kawhi might be the longest wing in the league with a 7'3 wingspan and it's a large factor in his defensive excellence. Jackson's basically a T-Rex with a wingspan that measured just shy of 6'10.

Kawhi is also an excellent 3 point shooter and shot almost 20% better from the line in college than Jackson did. I don't think Jackson is ever going to be an above average 3 point shooter - it would be fortunate if he ever gets to slightly below average.

I believe Pippen had a 7'3 wingspan as well.

Jimmy Butler might be a better ceiling as a two-way wing that has success despite being a below average shooter and having a short wingspan. He shot way better than Jackson in college though.

I'm also unclear what needs we have that Jackson fills. We aren't lacking in good defenders or rebounders. In a X/Y/Covington/Simmons/Embiid lineup, we need both of those two holes to be good shooters on top of whatever else they bring.

[Ericb5]

I mean that's why he's a weak fit. I firmly believe that if you want to be a championship contender, 3 of your 4 non-centers need to be positive 3 point shooters (or at least be threatening enough from a spacing perspective like a Draymond or Iguodala).

There is a very real risk that Jackson is a sub 30% shooter from 3, and that makes for an extremely suspect fit next to Simmons.

We have other needs other than shooters though, and he fills several of those. I don't see any reason why he can't be as good of a shooter as Iguodala. Of course he isn't perfect, but saying he doesn't fit isn't fair. Fitting isn't the same thing as solving our roster problems.

I just think that you can find role player shooters on the FA or trade market in time.

Jackson has an ultimate ceiling of someone like kawhi Leonard or Scottie Pippen, and a more realistic projection of someone like Latrell Sprewell. That kind of player fits with any roster.


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I don't think his ceiling is anywhere near Kawhi and it seems ridiculous to suggest that comparison.

Kawhi might be the longest wing in the league with a 7'3 wingspan and it's a large factor in his defensive excellence. Jackson's basically a T-Rex with a wingspan that measured just shy of 6'10.

Kawhi is also an excellent 3 point shooter and shot almost 20% better from the line in college than Jackson did. I don't think Jackson is ever going to be an above average 3 point shooter - it would be fortunate if he ever gets to slightly below average.

I believe Pippen had a 7'3 wingspan as well.

Jimmy Butler might be a better ceiling as a two-way wing that has success despite being a below average shooter and having a short wingspan. He shot way better than Jackson in college though.

I'm also unclear what needs we have that Jackson fills. We aren't lacking in good defenders or rebounders. In a X/Y/Covington/Simmons/Embiid lineup, we need both of those two holes to be good shooters on top of whatever else they bring.

He fills needs of wing defense, athleticism, and ball handling.

How about just running with Simmons?

Kawhi is maybe a bridge too far, but he can be that type of player, and depending on how much better he can get as a shooter, he can be an allstar.

My point is that he fits on our team fine. We only have one good wing on the team in Covington.

Simmons doesn't really count.


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[eagereyez]

I mean that's why he's a weak fit. I firmly believe that if you want to be a championship contender, 3 of your 4 non-centers need to be positive 3 point shooters (or at least be threatening enough from a spacing perspective like a Draymond or Iguodala).

There is a very real risk that Jackson is a sub 30% shooter from 3, and that makes for an extremely suspect fit next to Simmons.

We have other needs other than shooters though, and he fills several of those. I don't see any reason why he can't be as good of a shooter as Iguodala. Of course he isn't perfect, but saying he doesn't fit isn't fair. Fitting isn't the same thing as solving our roster problems.

I just think that you can find role player shooters on the FA or trade market in time.

Jackson has an ultimate ceiling of someone like kawhi Leonard or Scottie Pippen, and a more realistic projection of someone like Latrell Sprewell. That kind of player fits with any roster.


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I don't think his ceiling is anywhere near Kawhi and it seems ridiculous to suggest that comparison.

Kawhi might be the longest wing in the league with a 7'3 wingspan and it's a large factor in his defensive excellence. Jackson's basically a T-Rex with a wingspan that measured just shy of 6'10.

Kawhi is also an excellent 3 point shooter and shot almost 20% better from the line in college than Jackson did. I don't think Jackson is ever going to be an above average 3 point shooter - it would be fortunate if he ever gets to slightly below average.

I believe Pippen had a 7'3 wingspan as well.

Jimmy Butler might be a better ceiling as a two-way wing that has success despite being a below average shooter and having a short wingspan. He shot way better than Jackson in college though.

I'm also unclear what needs we have that Jackson fills. We aren't lacking in good defenders or rebounders. In a X/Y/Covington/Simmons/Embiid lineup, we need both of those two holes to be good shooters on top of whatever else they bring.

I thought I was going crazy seeing the Kawhi and Pippen comparisons. Butler makes a lot more sense, but even if he reaches that I'm still not sure if the Sixers aren't better off trading him down the road.

[LloydFree]

The 76ers need to sit right there at #3 and get one of the best two players in the draft. I hope​ Colangelo turns off talk radio and doesn't answer any phone calls from Danny Ainge for the next 40 days. I don't want anybody convincing him to go up to get that #1 pick. Let Ainge allow his fanbase to force him into a bad decision.

[eagereyez]

We have other needs other than shooters though, and he fills several of those. I don't see any reason why he can't be as good of a shooter as Iguodala. Of course he isn't perfect, but saying he doesn't fit isn't fair. Fitting isn't the same thing as solving our roster problems.

I just think that you can find role player shooters on the FA or trade market in time.

Jackson has an ultimate ceiling of someone like kawhi Leonard or Scottie Pippen, and a more realistic projection of someone like Latrell Sprewell. That kind of player fits with any roster.


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I don't think his ceiling is anywhere near Kawhi and it seems ridiculous to suggest that comparison.

Kawhi might be the longest wing in the league with a 7'3 wingspan and it's a large factor in his defensive excellence. Jackson's basically a T-Rex with a wingspan that measured just shy of 6'10.

Kawhi is also an excellent 3 point shooter and shot almost 20% better from the line in college than Jackson did. I don't think Jackson is ever going to be an above average 3 point shooter - it would be fortunate if he ever gets to slightly below average.

I believe Pippen had a 7'3 wingspan as well.

Jimmy Butler might be a better ceiling as a two-way wing that has success despite being a below average shooter and having a short wingspan. He shot way better than Jackson in college though.

I'm also unclear what needs we have that Jackson fills. We aren't lacking in good defenders or rebounders. In a X/Y/Covington/Simmons/Embiid lineup, we need both of those two holes to be good shooters on top of whatever else they bring.

He fills needs of wing defense, athleticism, and ball handling.

How about just running with Simmons?

Kawhi is maybe a bridge too far, but he can be that type of player, and depending on how much better he can get as a shooter, he can be an allstar.

My point is that he fits on our team fine. We only have one good wing on the team in Covington.

Simmons doesn't really count.


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Jackson will never be as good of a shooter as Kawhi. And it's very doubtful that he will become as good of a defender either. Kawhi is the best or second best perimeter defender of all time.

[the_process]

Yeah, Orlando doesn't do this. Give up Hezonja, 6th, and 25th to move up 4 is not wise. If this was for Josh Jackson and to move up to the 3rd pick, I would be more interested. You could do Fournier or Hezonja + 6th + 25th for 3rd. After the 3rd pick its a wash. There is no conscious 4th pick although Fox has been gaining traction. Tatum is not a good fit next to Booker. A forward who already struggles on defense going to one of the worse defensive teams? Kinda disastrous.

Its no surprise Philly needs shooting with all those long tall guys. PHX seems like a perfect trade partner for Philly. They have plenty of shooters and need defense. Its no wonder they were tanking for Jackson. Would be a perfect fit with Booker.

There is def some trade possibility draft night.

Brandon Knight fills a need for ORL, and even at his salary is an upgrade from Hezonja.

When was the last time you watched Brandon knight play? The guy is the Jeff Green of guards. He has one of the worse +/- in the league. There is a reason PHX has been trying nonstop to trade him and nobody wants him.

Brandon Knight is a wing who can shoot and score. Pretty much exactly what ORL needs.

[Sixerscan]

Brandon Knight fills a need for ORL, and even at his salary is an upgrade from Hezonja.

When was the last time you watched Brandon knight play? The guy is the Jeff Green of guards. He has one of the worse +/- in the league. There is a reason PHX has been trying nonstop to trade him and nobody wants him.

Brandon Knight is a wing who can shoot and score. Pretty much exactly what ORL needs.

Couldn't shoot and score this year.

[TTP]

We have other needs other than shooters though, and he fills several of those. I don't see any reason why he can't be as good of a shooter as Iguodala. Of course he isn't perfect, but saying he doesn't fit isn't fair. Fitting isn't the same thing as solving our roster problems.

I just think that you can find role player shooters on the FA or trade market in time.

Jackson has an ultimate ceiling of someone like kawhi Leonard or Scottie Pippen, and a more realistic projection of someone like Latrell Sprewell. That kind of player fits with any roster.


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I don't think his ceiling is anywhere near Kawhi and it seems ridiculous to suggest that comparison.

Kawhi might be the longest wing in the league with a 7'3 wingspan and it's a large factor in his defensive excellence. Jackson's basically a T-Rex with a wingspan that measured just shy of 6'10.

Kawhi is also an excellent 3 point shooter and shot almost 20% better from the line in college than Jackson did. I don't think Jackson is ever going to be an above average 3 point shooter - it would be fortunate if he ever gets to slightly below average.

I believe Pippen had a 7'3 wingspan as well.

Jimmy Butler might be a better ceiling as a two-way wing that has success despite being a below average shooter and having a short wingspan. He shot way better than Jackson in college though.

I'm also unclear what needs we have that Jackson fills. We aren't lacking in good defenders or rebounders. In a X/Y/Covington/Simmons/Embiid lineup, we need both of those two holes to be good shooters on top of whatever else they bring.

He fills needs of wing defense, athleticism, and ball handling.

How about just running with Simmons?

Kawhi is maybe a bridge too far, but he can be that type of player, and depending on how much better he can get as a shooter, he can be an allstar.

My point is that he fits on our team fine. We only have one good wing on the team in Covington.

Simmons doesn't really count.


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Are those needs? I would define a skillset as a need if it is a requirement for us to win a championship.

We were already the #1 defense in the league at one point with Covington and Embiid on the floor. I'm always on board with targeting players that can defend, but I would consider it a luxury if all 5 players on the floor were good defenders.

I think athleticism is typically overrated and don't agree that it's a need. Athleticism should be something that contributes to some other basketball ability. If you're saying we need more guys that thrive in transition, maybe, though I think that might be a luxury given our current personnel and also am not sure it's a necessary basketball skill to win a championship.

A secondary ball handler might be a need. I'm not sure Jackson's handling is good enough to fill that role though.

Shooting is an actual need. I don't think you can put together a championship basketball team in this era with 2 of your non-centers being poor or non-shooters. We have 3 of our starting 5 locked in, one of which is a center, and another is a non-shooter. This means that if you believe my premise, it is a necessity that the other two players that we add to round out our starting 5 need to be able to shoot/space the floor.

We already have an athletic wing defender in TLC. I'm very fine with targeting others, but I think it's critically important that they have some shooting upside as well, and I'm not sure Jackson does. This is why I believe he's a weak fit.

[Unbreakable99]

I mean that's why he's a weak fit. I firmly believe that if you want to be a championship contender, 3 of your 4 non-centers need to be positive 3 point shooters (or at least be threatening enough from a spacing perspective like a Draymond or Iguodala).

There is a very real risk that Jackson is a sub 30% shooter from 3, and that makes for an extremely suspect fit next to Simmons.

Who do you want at 3?

I said that if we stay at 3, he's the guy you take.

I think trying to trade up or down are both probably better though. It's in our best interests to consolidate as much as possible so up makes more sense, but is much more difficult to accomplish.

So if you trade up then trade up for whom? If you trade down then trade down for whom? What spot would you look to trade down? What 3 targets would you like?