Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017

[Darthlukey]

Wow, I just looked at the kings obligations for the next few years. I totally forgot they owe Philly their 2019 first, unprotected. Philly can compete for the playoffs (health pending) and still get lottery picks via the Lakers in 2018 and Kings in 2019. I almost....almost want the kings to get better just to slow down Phillies asset accumulation. The intent was a trade idea but the kings have nothing of value that they would want to trade

[Darthlukey]

For those that like Jackson instead of fultz (I'm a fultz guy) would you trade the #1 pick with 76ers for #3 and Sacramentos 2019 first?

[Darthlukey]

The more I have time to think about it (damn break between conference finals and the finals) the more I think the Celtics should trade for Melo if they miss out on Hayward or Griffin.
I'm assuming of course that they get him as a salary dump from new Yorks perspective (maybe move crowder for him to prevent more logjams). It jams up short term cap flexibility but if Ainge is going to give IT a big deal next year they may as well increase the star power of the team and sell a few more tickets

[Andrew McCeltic]

For those that like Jackson instead of fultz (I'm a fultz guy) would you trade the #1 pick with 76ers for #3 and Sacramentos 2019 first?

No, but I could imagine a tempting offer from PHI. They've got Saric, Okafor, LAL 18 unprotected, SAC 19 unprotected, and the ability to absorb salary to create cap space for us. Some combo could work, depending on what the market is. 3, Saric, SAC 19 for 1. We trade 3 to Orlando for Vucevic, 6 and take the BPA.

Saric, Vucevic, SAC 19 and Tatum or Isaac or Ntilikina is an interesting haul.

[Darthlukey]

For those that like Jackson instead of fultz (I'm a fultz guy) would you trade the #1 pick with 76ers for #3 and Sacramentos 2019 first?

No, but I could imagine a tempting offer from PHI. They've got Saric, Okafor, LAL 18 unprotected, SAC 19 unprotected, and the ability to absorb salary to create cap space for us. Some combo could work, depending on what the market is. 3, Saric, SAC 19 for 1. We trade 3 to Orlando for Vucevic, 6 and take the BPA.

Saric, Vucevic, SAC 19 and Tatum or Isaac or Ntilikina is an interesting haul.

That does make the celts much better and deeper short term, pretty much two deep at every position. Basically the vets start and rookies/ sophomores backup. Still get two bites of the cherry in the next two drafts too

[Andrew McCeltic]

For those that like Jackson instead of fultz (I'm a fultz guy) would you trade the #1 pick with 76ers for #3 and Sacramentos 2019 first?

No, but I could imagine a tempting offer from PHI. They've got Saric, Okafor, LAL 18 unprotected, SAC 19 unprotected, and the ability to absorb salary to create cap space for us. Some combo could work, depending on what the market is. 3, Saric, SAC 19 for 1. We trade 3 to Orlando for Vucevic, 6 and take the BPA.

Saric, Vucevic, SAC 19 and Tatum or Isaac or Ntilikina is an interesting haul.

That does make the celts much better and deeper short term, pretty much two deep at every position. Basically the vets start and rookies/ sophomores backup. Still get two bites of the cherry in the next two drafts too

Think we're just taking Fultz. But a move down or double move down could be a way to turn a big profit.

[MrClass]

Quality over quantity please. Take fultz and run.


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[cl2117]

So I was arguing with a friend about his contention that the C's should "blow it up" since we won't beat LeBron or GSW and we should build for when those two teams will be on the decline, which I think is ludicrous. He basically wants to Hinkie it, trade IT, trade AB, trade Horford, and grab as many rookies as possible and hope 1 or 2 become stars (in addition to Fultz).

While I think that's insane, I humored him and we came up with a couple trades that the C's could do to nab as many 2017 lotto picks as possible and eating money that comes off the books in 2019. This is what we ended up with:

1) Boston and Detroit: AB and #37 for #12 and Aron Baynes

2) Boston and Portland: Zeller (waived) for #15, Evan Turner, Myles Leonard

3) Boston and Dallas: IT for #9 and TPE

4) Boston and New York: Horford and Smart for #8, Noah, Lance Thomas

If done in the right order the above deals can work for the cap (some don't work as a standalone, but I kept them that way for simplicity).

We end up with #1, #8, #9, #12. And a roster of:

Rozier/Jackson
Turner
Brown/Thomas
Crowder
Noah/Leonard/Baynes

We go straight back to the lottery in 2018 with 2 bites at the apple thanks to BKN and then have 3 picks in 2019 (again likely in the lottery ourselves). All the guys acquired (except for Baynes) have 3 years left on their deals meaning they expire right when Brown/Crowder need an extension and before all the 2017 picks would.

I don't think Ainge would be stupid enough to do this (nor would probably half the teams anyway), but it was kind of a fun exercise to put your "Hinkie hat" on and see exactly how rock bottom you could drop this team while collecting picks.

Can anybody do better? Make us a lotto team and snag as many lotto picks in the process as possible.

[galipeautim]

For those that like Jackson instead of fultz (I'm a fultz guy) would you trade the #1 pick with 76ers for #3 and Sacramentos 2019 first?

No, but I could imagine a tempting offer from PHI. They've got Saric, Okafor, LAL 18 unprotected, SAC 19 unprotected, and the ability to absorb salary to create cap space for us. Some combo could work, depending on what the market is. 3, Saric, SAC 19 for 1. We trade 3 to Orlando for Vucevic, 6 and take the BPA.

Saric, Vucevic, SAC 19 and Tatum or Isaac or Ntilikina is an interesting haul.

You take the guy you think is the best player with the #1 pick unless the 76ers are willing to throw in Ben Simmons and then discussions can begin. Personally, I think AB, #1, and Celtics 2018 pick for #3 and Ben Simmons is a good starting point for negotiations if the 76ers are in love with Fultz and we really like Jackson. I'm willing to give up a little more in this deal, but not the Brooklyn 2018 pick or Jaylen Brown.

[Celts17Pride]

Apparently you are too dumb to understand the salary cap and luxury tax

Celtics can sign a max guy, sign Thomas, sign Bradley and sign Smart if they choose

So you're proposing our pitch to Hayward be take less than max money to leave the team you've been with for 6-7 years?

We can't keep Bradley, Smart and Crowder and have max cap space and you've blasted a guy for proposing to trade Bradley or Crowder for a pick, so I don't really know what you're looking for.

Why would Ainge trade an established player for a guy the 12th pick who probably won't help for 4-5 years in courting Hayward.

Talk about making no sense. Hey Gordon we just made our team worst come join us. OK

[cl2117]

Celtics can sign a max guy, sign Thomas, sign Bradley and sign Smart if they choose

So you're proposing our pitch to Hayward be take less than max money to leave the team you've been with for 6-7 years?

We can't keep Bradley, Smart and Crowder and have max cap space and you've blasted a guy for proposing to trade Bradley or Crowder for a pick, so I don't really know what you're looking for.

Why would Ainge trade an established player for a guy the 12th pick who probably won't help for 4-5 years in courting Hayward.

Talk about making no sense. Hey Gordon we just made our team worst come join us. OK

Unless the cap goes up, which it might, one of Bradley, Smart and Crowder likely has to go in order to make room for Hayward if I'm not mistaken (which I may be).

In that case I think trading him for the 12th pick is actually great value. The goal should be to then flip that pick to land some front-court help though. Hayward replaces Bradley and then #12 goes out to improve our weaker areas, I think we can sell Gordon on that.

[Celts17Pride]

So you're proposing our pitch to Hayward be take less than max money to leave the team you've been with for 6-7 years?

We can't keep Bradley, Smart and Crowder and have max cap space and you've blasted a guy for proposing to trade Bradley or Crowder for a pick, so I don't really know what you're looking for.

Why would Ainge trade an established player for a guy the 12th pick who probably won't help for 4-5 years in courting Hayward.

Talk about making no sense. Hey Gordon we just made our team worst come join us. OK

Unless the cap goes up, which it might, one of Bradley, Smart and Crowder likely has to go in order to make room for Hayward if I'm not mistaken (which I may be).

In that case I think trading him for the 12th pick is actually great value. The goal should be to then flip that pick to land some front-court help though. Hayward replaces Bradley and then #12 goes out to improve our weaker areas, I think we can sell Gordon on that.

12th pick has no value. That's why Detroit is trying to get rid of it. Detroit trying to find a team willing to wait 4-5 years in hope that the pick becomes a rotation player. Van Gundy doesn't have 4-5 years that's why he wants immediate help.

Ainge isn't trading Crowder, Smart or Bradley for the 12th pick

[GregB]

So you're proposing our pitch to Hayward be take less than max money to leave the team you've been with for 6-7 years?

We can't keep Bradley, Smart and Crowder and have max cap space and you've blasted a guy for proposing to trade Bradley or Crowder for a pick, so I don't really know what you're looking for.

Why would Ainge trade an established player for a guy the 12th pick who probably won't help for 4-5 years in courting Hayward.

Talk about making no sense. Hey Gordon we just made our team worst come join us. OK

Unless the cap goes up, which it might, one of Bradley, Smart and Crowder likely has to go in order to make room for Hayward if I'm not mistaken (which I may be).

In that case I think trading him for the 12th pick is actually great value. The goal should be to then flip that pick to land some front-court help though. Hayward replaces Bradley and then #12 goes out to improve our weaker areas, I think we can sell Gordon on that.

It really just depends on what the Celtics want to do with Olynyk. I think some people have valued him a bit more Bradley because outside of Horford our front court is going to be very inexperienced.

But we can simply renounce Olynyk and dump Smart plus Jackson and #37 for a pick in 18-25 range for someone like Giles or a stash like Jean from France.

This is the type of scenario , I have also suggested offering Bradley or Crowder in a sign and trade for someone like Jamychel Green. I think he would make a great running mate next to Horford.

If we didn't trade for Green this would be our likely best case scenario lineup.

IT4
Bradley
Hayward
Crowder
Horford

Fultz
Brown
Rozier
Zizic
Yabusele
Giles
Jerebko
Green
Nader

So unless Zizic and Yabusele really step up we are going to get killed inside again.

If we trade for Green we have better lineup options. Let's use Bradley in this example.

IT4
Brown
Hayward
Green
Horford

Crowder
Fultz
Rozier
Zizic
Yabusele
Jerebko
Green
Giles
Nader

Green is a much better rebounder than Crowder at the 4. Plus he was rated as one of top switching big men in the league when put on SFs.

Also moving Crowder to the bench with Rozier adds some experience to help the young guys get better faster.

So outside of signing Hayward and then trading for Paul George. I think this is the best lineup we can put together without having to give away our young players. I really think that team would get close to 60 wins.

[Valid]

For those that like Jackson instead of fultz (I'm a fultz guy) would you trade the #1 pick with 76ers for #3 and Sacramentos 2019 first?

No, but I could imagine a tempting offer from PHI. They've got Saric, Okafor, LAL 18 unprotected, SAC 19 unprotected, and the ability to absorb salary to create cap space for us. Some combo could work, depending on what the market is. 3, Saric, SAC 19 for 1. We trade 3 to Orlando for Vucevic, 6 and take the BPA.

Saric, Vucevic, SAC 19 and Tatum or Isaac or Ntilikina is an interesting haul.

Can we stop acting like Jahlil Okafor is a positive asset?

[Andrew McCeltic]

For those that like Jackson instead of fultz (I'm a fultz guy) would you trade the #1 pick with 76ers for #3 and Sacramentos 2019 first?

No, but I could imagine a tempting offer from PHI. They've got Saric, Okafor, LAL 18 unprotected, SAC 19 unprotected, and the ability to absorb salary to create cap space for us. Some combo could work, depending on what the market is. 3, Saric, SAC 19 for 1. We trade 3 to Orlando for Vucevic, 6 and take the BPA.

Saric, Vucevic, SAC 19 and Tatum or Isaac or Ntilikina is an interesting haul.

Can we stop acting like Jahlil Okafor is a positive asset?

I'm dying hard on that one. I was thinking, though, honestly, that he'd be a player to pump up with good coaching and a modest role, to trade later.

[165bows]

Bradley certainly has built up value to what Ibaka got for OKC. Namely, #12 and Oladipo.

Personally I'd be disappointed with less.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Bradley certainly has built up value to what Ibaka got for OKC. Namely, #12 and Oladipo.

Personally I'd be disappointed with less.

A lot depends on the opportunities we have, but I think if we're getting Fultz, at some point we have to choose between Smart or Bradley.

[sam_I_am]

So I was arguing with a friend about his contention that the C's should "blow it up" since we won't beat LeBron or GSW and we should build for when those two teams will be on the decline, which I think is ludicrous. He basically wants to Hinkie it, trade IT, trade AB, trade Horford, and grab as many rookies as possible and hope 1 or 2 become stars (in addition to Fultz).

While I think that's insane, I humored him and we came up with a couple trades that the C's could do to nab as many 2017 lotto picks as possible and eating money that comes off the books in 2019. This is what we ended up with:

1) Boston and Detroit: AB and #37 for #12 and Aron Baynes

2) Boston and Portland: Zeller (waived) for #15, Evan Turner, Myles Leonard

3) Boston and Dallas: IT for #9 and TPE

4) Boston and New York: Horford and Smart for #8, Noah, Lance Thomas

If done in the right order the above deals can work for the cap (some don't work as a standalone, but I kept them that way for simplicity).

We end up with #1, #8, #9, #12. And a roster of:

Rozier/Jackson
Turner
Brown/Thomas
Crowder
Noah/Leonard/Baynes

We go straight back to the lottery in 2018 with 2 bites at the apple thanks to BKN and then have 3 picks in 2019 (again likely in the lottery ourselves). All the guys acquired (except for Baynes) have 3 years left on their deals meaning they expire right when Brown/Crowder need an extension and before all the 2017 picks would.

I don't think Ainge would be stupid enough to do this (nor would probably half the teams anyway), but it was kind of a fun exercise to put your "Hinkie hat" on and see exactly how rock bottom you could drop this team while collecting picks.

Can anybody do better? Make us a lotto team and snag as many lotto picks in the process as possible.

I feel like Philly was in similar situation to Celtics of last year when Jrue, Iggy, ET, Thaddeous Young made a spirited playoff series with C's. They have been hot garbage since and despite all these elite draft picks it's possible they could suck again and see all these young players looking for big contracts having hardly played for them at all - like Nerlens Noel.

It's an interesting exercise - and thanks for posting it - but a really bad plan.

[SparringPartner]

Deleted

[Gomes3PC]

Bradley certainly has built up value to what Ibaka got for OKC. Namely, #12 and Oladipo.

Personally I'd be disappointed with less.

A lot depends on the opportunities we have, but I think if we're getting Fultz, at some point we have to choose between Smart or Bradley.

I'd bet heavily on us keeping Smart. He's younger, more durable, and longer-term can fit into a versatile super-sub role. Plus, the RFA status gives us better control over him in the contract negotiations and even ignoring that, he's getting less per year than Avery will.

I love Avery, but if we want to keep him, frankly the guy who probably needs to be considered moving is IT. I just don't see how you can commit $50M of cap space to the two of them.