The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million

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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#61 » by jswede » Wed May 31, 2017 11:42 pm

likashing wrote:It is the same for all superteams.

18-19 is James' option year. He will be making $40m+ in 19-20
Irving will opt out in 2019 summer and make $35-40m
Love and TT are both FA in 2020 summer.

Love will be $35-40m range as well. TT demanded to be paid as much as Draymond and got ~$80m after holding out. With LeBron being his agent, I'd say TT will get ~$35m as well.

It will be fun seeing how long each team lasts.


Pure speculation, but at that point LeBron could start playing for the min while working a deal with Gilbert for an ownership stake.
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#62 » by likashing » Wed May 31, 2017 11:50 pm

jswede wrote:
likashing wrote:It is the same for all superteams.

18-19 is James' option year. He will be making $40m+ in 19-20
Irving will opt out in 2019 summer and make $35-40m
Love and TT are both FA in 2020 summer.

Love will be $35-40m range as well. TT demanded to be paid as much as Draymond and got ~$80m after holding out. With LeBron being his agent, I'd say TT will get ~$35m as well.

It will be fun seeing how long each team lasts.


Pure speculation, but at that point LeBron could start playing for the min while working a deal with Gilbert for an ownership stake.


That is an even bigger speculation.
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#63 » by jswede » Wed May 31, 2017 11:55 pm

likashing wrote:
jswede wrote:
likashing wrote:It is the same for all superteams.

18-19 is James' option year. He will be making $40m+ in 19-20
Irving will opt out in 2019 summer and make $35-40m
Love and TT are both FA in 2020 summer.

Love will be $35-40m range as well. TT demanded to be paid as much as Draymond and got ~$80m after holding out. With LeBron being his agent, I'd say TT will get ~$35m as well.

It will be fun seeing how long each team lasts.


Pure speculation, but at that point LeBron could start playing for the min while working a deal with Gilbert for an ownership stake.


That is an even bigger speculation.


Rt. Point is, the natural progression, and we're likely already seeing it happen with Dirk, is sacrificing playing salary for post-career interests. Whether it's clipping a salary or ownership, we're still aways off from it becoming regulated.
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#64 » by likashing » Wed May 31, 2017 11:57 pm

jswede wrote:
likashing wrote:
jswede wrote:
Pure speculation, but at that point LeBron could start playing for the min while working a deal with Gilbert for an ownership stake.


That is an even bigger speculation.


Rt. Point is, the natural progression, and we're likely already seeing it happen with Dirk, is sacrificing playing salary for post-career interests. Whether it's clipping a salary or ownership, we're still aways off from it becoming regulated.


I didn't know Dirk is playing for min.
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#65 » by jswede » Thu Jun 1, 2017 12:05 am

likashing wrote:
jswede wrote:
likashing wrote:
That is an even bigger speculation.


Rt. Point is, the natural progression, and we're likely already seeing it happen with Dirk, is sacrificing playing salary for post-career interests. Whether it's clipping a salary or ownership, we're still aways off from it becoming regulated.


I didn't know Dirk is playing for min.


You're not familiar I see. He took a giant discount the 2 years previous, from $22m to $8m for 2 years. Then he signed a 1yr for $25 - I agree. Point is, when Dallas needs the money, he won't be in the way.
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#66 » by Hero » Thu Jun 1, 2017 12:14 am

So they'll have what? 4 championships by then?

Can't take solace in this.
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#67 » by Warchant » Thu Jun 1, 2017 12:17 am

Bertrob wrote:I would think Klay is the odd man out. Hes great and all but the other two are MVPs and Green is the lynchpin to their defense

Klay is far from great and will b gone w another bad finals
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#68 » by DubTheVanDamage » Thu Jun 1, 2017 12:17 am

jswede wrote:
likashing wrote:
jswede wrote:
Pure speculation, but at that point LeBron could start playing for the min while working a deal with Gilbert for an ownership stake.


That is an even bigger speculation.


Rt. Point is, the natural progression, and we're likely already seeing it happen with Dirk, is sacrificing playing salary for post-career interests. Whether it's clipping a salary or ownership, we're still aways off from it becoming regulated.


That is forbidden in the CBA as circumvention of the salary cap:

The CBA also has a general prohibition on circumvention which states that the rules exist to preserve the benefit derived by the teams and players, and that nobody shall do anything to defeat or circumvent the intent of the agreement. The league can use this prohibition to disallow a trade that they feel circumvents the CBA, even though that trade is not specifically prohibited by the agreement.

Examples of conduct considered to be circumvention include:

A team owner allowing a player to invest in a business or investment fund controlled by the owner or a friend of the owner.
A team executive assisting a player in obtaining a product endorsement.
Any "under the table" promises for a future contract.
A team's arena renting retail space to a player on the team.
A team selling a sponsorship to a business in which a player has an interest.
A team hiring a player's relative or business partner as an employee.
A team owner allowing a player the use of his private plane.
A company affiliated with a team's owner making a home available to one of the team's players.

Whenever a contract is signed, extended, renegotiated or otherwise amended, the team, player, and player's agent must certify, under penalty of perjury, that there are no side agreements or understandings of any kind relating to:

Any future contract, or future extension, renegotiation or amendment of the player's current contract.
Any outside compensation, investment, business opportunity or anything else of value furnished to the player or any other person or entity controlled by, related to, or acting on behalf of the player.

The intent of these rules is to ensure that the only agreement from which either the player or the team can benefit is the current, signed player contract. The rules extend to sponsors, business partners and other team affiliates, and to player agents, representatives and family members.


So, what you're suggesting is cheating and requires perjury on top of it.
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#69 » by jswede » Thu Jun 1, 2017 12:25 am

DubTheVanDamage wrote:
jswede wrote:
likashing wrote:
That is an even bigger speculation.


Rt. Point is, the natural progression, and we're likely already seeing it happen with Dirk, is sacrificing playing salary for post-career interests. Whether it's clipping a salary or ownership, we're still aways off from it becoming regulated.


That is forbidden in the CBA as circumvention of the salary cap:

The CBA also has a general prohibition on circumvention which states that the rules exist to preserve the benefit derived by the teams and players, and that nobody shall do anything to defeat or circumvent the intent of the agreement. The league can use this prohibition to disallow a trade that they feel circumvents the CBA, even though that trade is not specifically prohibited by the agreement.

Examples of conduct considered to be circumvention include:

A team owner allowing a player to invest in a business or investment fund controlled by the owner or a friend of the owner.
A team executive assisting a player in obtaining a product endorsement.
Any "under the table" promises for a future contract.
A team's arena renting retail space to a player on the team.
A team selling a sponsorship to a business in which a player has an interest.
A team hiring a player's relative or business partner as an employee.
A team owner allowing a player the use of his private plane.
A company affiliated with a team's owner making a home available to one of the team's players.

Whenever a contract is signed, extended, renegotiated or otherwise amended, the team, player, and player's agent must certify, under penalty of perjury, that there are no side agreements or understandings of any kind relating to:

Any future contract, or future extension, renegotiation or amendment of the player's current contract.
Any outside compensation, investment, business opportunity or anything else of value furnished to the player or any other person or entity controlled by, related to, or acting on behalf of the player.

The intent of these rules is to ensure that the only agreement from which either the player or the team can benefit is the current, signed player contract. The rules extend to sponsors, business partners and other team affiliates, and to player agents, representatives and family members.


So, what you're suggesting is cheating and requires perjury on top of it.


I know. Only illegal to the degree that it can be proven though. And it can't be.

Ask Alonzo Mourning, who took a 1 mill deal with the Heat over and over again and is now a lifetime employee.

In fact, that's likely why Dirk took the recent 1yr/$25mil - to throw them off.
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#70 » by DubTheVanDamage » Thu Jun 1, 2017 12:35 am

jswede wrote:
DubTheVanDamage wrote:
jswede wrote:
Rt. Point is, the natural progression, and we're likely already seeing it happen with Dirk, is sacrificing playing salary for post-career interests. Whether it's clipping a salary or ownership, we're still aways off from it becoming regulated.


That is forbidden in the CBA as circumvention of the salary cap:

The CBA also has a general prohibition on circumvention which states that the rules exist to preserve the benefit derived by the teams and players, and that nobody shall do anything to defeat or circumvent the intent of the agreement. The league can use this prohibition to disallow a trade that they feel circumvents the CBA, even though that trade is not specifically prohibited by the agreement.

Examples of conduct considered to be circumvention include:

A team owner allowing a player to invest in a business or investment fund controlled by the owner or a friend of the owner.
A team executive assisting a player in obtaining a product endorsement.
Any "under the table" promises for a future contract.
A team's arena renting retail space to a player on the team.
A team selling a sponsorship to a business in which a player has an interest.
A team hiring a player's relative or business partner as an employee.
A team owner allowing a player the use of his private plane.
A company affiliated with a team's owner making a home available to one of the team's players.

Whenever a contract is signed, extended, renegotiated or otherwise amended, the team, player, and player's agent must certify, under penalty of perjury, that there are no side agreements or understandings of any kind relating to:

Any future contract, or future extension, renegotiation or amendment of the player's current contract.
Any outside compensation, investment, business opportunity or anything else of value furnished to the player or any other person or entity controlled by, related to, or acting on behalf of the player.

The intent of these rules is to ensure that the only agreement from which either the player or the team can benefit is the current, signed player contract. The rules extend to sponsors, business partners and other team affiliates, and to player agents, representatives and family members.


So, what you're suggesting is cheating and requires perjury on top of it.


I know. Only illegal to the degree that it can be proven though. And it can't be.


Well, there are 5 issues:

1) In order for it to happen, LeBron has to be a lying cheater, which I don't think he is
2) Gilbert must also be a lying cheater, which he may be :wink:
3) Because there can be no legally binding agreement, LeBron would have no legal protection that Gilbert would honor his agreement. And, under this scenario, Gilbert has proven himself to be a lying cheater, so why would LeBron trust him with tens of millions?
4) Even if LeBron does trust Gilbert, what if Gilbert sells the team? Or dies? Or is arrested for fraud?
5) While there can be some forms of under-the-table remuneration, team ownership isn't one of them. Shares of an NBA team are an asset and must be reported to both the government and the league. If LeBron suddenly owns shares he did not buy at market value, not only will the league go after the Cavs but, unless LeBron declared share grants as income, he will be guilty of tax evasion as well

I'm sure Cuban will 'make it up' to Dirk as much as he can but I seriously doubt either were dumb enough to have any agreement, even a handshake one. Dirk made enough money in his career that he was willing to leave money on the table for the team and its owner. I seriously doubt LeBron will do the same for Gilbert, not should he be expected to.
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#71 » by LakerLegend » Thu Jun 1, 2017 12:36 am

Could anyone see Klay leaving, being unhappy as a 4th option?
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#72 » by DubTheVanDamage » Thu Jun 1, 2017 12:41 am

Lakerfan17 wrote:Could anyone see Klay leaving, being unhappy as a 4th option?


Well, Klay is the 3rd option. By all accounts, he was fine with his usage this year and was happy. Klay is cut from a different cloth and is unlikely to get bent-out-of-shape over touches.

But, is there a scenario where he'd want to try something new? Especially join the Lakers? Sure, it's possible. I do think the Warriors will be on top of it, though... if they get the sense that Klay doesn't want to stay, he'll be traded next off-season.

I certainly wouldn't expect any drama or duplicitousness from Klay.
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#73 » by jswede » Thu Jun 1, 2017 1:48 am

DubTheVanDamage wrote:
jswede wrote:
DubTheVanDamage wrote:
That is forbidden in the CBA as circumvention of the salary cap:



So, what you're suggesting is cheating and requires perjury on top of it.


I know. Only illegal to the degree that it can be proven though. And it can't be.


Well, there are 5 issues:

1) In order for it to happen, LeBron has to be a lying cheater, which I don't think he is
2) Gilbert must also be a lying cheater, which he may be :wink:
3) Because there can be no legally binding agreement, LeBron would have no legal protection that Gilbert would honor his agreement. And, under this scenario, Gilbert has proven himself to be a lying cheater, so why would LeBron trust him with tens of millions?
4) Even if LeBron does trust Gilbert, what if Gilbert sells the team? Or dies? Or is arrested for fraud?
5) While there can be some forms of under-the-table remuneration, team ownership isn't one of them. Shares of an NBA team are an asset and must be reported to both the government and the league. If LeBron suddenly owns shares he did not buy at market value, not only will the league go after the Cavs but, unless LeBron declared share grants as income, he will be guilty of tax evasion as well

I'm sure Cuban will 'make it up' to Dirk as much as he can but I seriously doubt either were dumb enough to have any agreement, even a handshake one. Dirk made enough money in his career that he was willing to leave money on the table for the team and its owner. I seriously doubt LeBron will do the same for Gilbert, not should he be expected to.


You lack imagination.

LeBron taking less would in large part be driven by his desire to win, but that does not preclude an agreement - while technically illegal - they would both be held to, under penalty of they each being exposed and penalized as such. Risks, such as Gilbert selling, would also be taken into account. There are risks beyond legal recourse in any legal contract too.

You live in a very cut/dry, black/white world it seems. Such is not the real world.
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#74 » by 2klegend » Thu Jun 1, 2017 2:40 am

Draymond is severely underpaid. The Warriors are very fortunate to have these players before the new CBA.
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#75 » by DubTheVanDamage » Thu Jun 1, 2017 3:03 am

jswede wrote:
DubTheVanDamage wrote:
jswede wrote:
I know. Only illegal to the degree that it can be proven though. And it can't be.


Well, there are 5 issues:

1) In order for it to happen, LeBron has to be a lying cheater, which I don't think he is
2) Gilbert must also be a lying cheater, which he may be :wink:
3) Because there can be no legally binding agreement, LeBron would have no legal protection that Gilbert would honor his agreement. And, under this scenario, Gilbert has proven himself to be a lying cheater, so why would LeBron trust him with tens of millions?
4) Even if LeBron does trust Gilbert, what if Gilbert sells the team? Or dies? Or is arrested for fraud?
5) While there can be some forms of under-the-table remuneration, team ownership isn't one of them. Shares of an NBA team are an asset and must be reported to both the government and the league. If LeBron suddenly owns shares he did not buy at market value, not only will the league go after the Cavs but, unless LeBron declared share grants as income, he will be guilty of tax evasion as well

I'm sure Cuban will 'make it up' to Dirk as much as he can but I seriously doubt either were dumb enough to have any agreement, even a handshake one. Dirk made enough money in his career that he was willing to leave money on the table for the team and its owner. I seriously doubt LeBron will do the same for Gilbert, not should he be expected to.


You lack imagination.

LeBron taking less would in large part be driven by his desire to win, but that does not preclude an agreement - while technically illegal - they would both be held to, under penalty of they each being exposed and penalized as such. Risks, such as Gilbert selling, would also be taken into account. There are risks beyond legal recourse in any legal contract too.

You live in a very cut/dry, black/white world it seems. Such is not the real world.


Wait a second, you're saying people forgo hundreds of millions of dollars on a handshake in 'the real world'? What's the color of the sky in your 'real world'?

LeBron has taken every penny he can get from Gilbert, including for Klutch Sports. The CBA 'conveniently' increased the age of max contracts so LeBron qualifies for a supermax. But, instead, he's going to walk away from a ~$210m contract on Dan Gilbert's word? Because if Dan Gilbert reneged on his deal, LeBron could call him out by saying, "I lied and cheated to get money under the table and now Dan Gilbert won't give it to me!" That's the 'real world'?

That's even putting aside the question that you're a Cavs fan and you're openly rooting for your franchise player and owner to lie and cheat so they can have gain an unfair advantage over other teams. Ok, that part is part of the 'real world'; most fans would have their teams do anything to win.

But you're nuts if you think LeBron is going put himself in a situation where he can get cheated out of the money he's rightfully earned. He'd be a complete idiot to do so and he's shown himself to be financially savvy.

If you take nothing else away from this conversation, take this: when it comes to business and finance, trust no one outside of your immediate family (and, even then, use your judgment). Never take a handshake when you can have a contract.
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $600 Million 

Post#76 » by Danny11 » Thu Jun 1, 2017 4:14 am

INKtastic wrote:
Danny11 wrote:
INKtastic wrote:
Jersey ads will bring in about $10 million/year and jersey ad revenues are included in cap projections.

Oh, I didn't realize the deals (that haven't even been made yet) have been publicized. Could you show me these docs? Or are you referring to the baseless speculation of an article regarding the revenue of the tiny Kia patch they are demoing on every team?


on the Cavs goodyear deal

Read on Twitter
?

An anonymous leak on a deal that isn't public. Case closed.
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#77 » by Warriorfan » Thu Jun 1, 2017 5:26 am

Warriors are a very forward thinking team and I believe many things have been laid out in the meeting to get Durant.

The luxury repeater tax is the biggest dread for NBA owners. Warriors last paid the luxury tax 2015-16.

If GS avoids the luxury tax threshold next year 17-18 they will not be 2020-21 when they pay the luxury 4 of 5 yrs. 15-16, 18-19, 19-20,20-21. The bill may be 60 mil. Core 4 , 3 luxury mle, 4 first 2nd Rd picks 4 ring chasers .

Luxury tax threshold is 117 million.
Durant, Curry and Iggy have to give discounts.

Curry 36, Durant 31.2 , Thompson 17.6, Green 16.4, Iggy 3mil. 1.7 Jones, 1.3 Looney, 1.3 Mc Caw, 5 guys rookie D league min 4 mil , 2 ring chasers bigs 1.7 Hopefully Mg Gee and D West.

They can all have opt outs with the promise to be paid later or say we are fully committed to resigning you in the future.
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#78 » by INKtastic » Thu Jun 1, 2017 5:38 am

Warriorfan wrote:Warriors are a very forward thinking team and I believe many things have been laid out in the meeting to get Durant.

The luxury repeater tax is the biggest dread for NBA owners. Warriors last paid the luxury tax 2015-16.

If GS avoids the luxury tax threshold next year 17-1 they will not be 2021- 2022 when they pay the luxury 4 of 5 yrs.

Luxury tax threshold is 114 million.
Durant, Curry and Iggy have to give discounts.

Curry 36, Durant 31.2 , Iggy 3mil.
They can all have opt outs with the promise to be paid later.


That violates the CBA
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#79 » by Warriorfan » Thu Jun 1, 2017 5:49 am

INKtastic wrote:
Warriorfan wrote:Warriors are a very forward thinking team and I believe many things have been laid out in the meeting to get Durant.

The luxury repeater tax is the biggest dread for NBA owners. Warriors last paid the luxury tax 2015-16.

If GS avoids the luxury tax threshold next year 17-1 they will not be 2021- 2022 when they pay the luxury 4 of 5 yrs.

Luxury tax threshold is 114 million.
Durant, Curry and Iggy have to give discounts.

Curry 36, Durant 31.2 , Iggy 3mil.
They can all have opt outs with the promise to be paid later.


That violates the CBA

I'm sure saying we are fully committed to you is not a violation of the CBA.
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Re: The Vertical: 2019 Warriors Salary Cap + Luxury Tax Could Equal $300 Million 

Post#80 » by INKtastic » Thu Jun 1, 2017 5:51 am

Warriorfan wrote:
INKtastic wrote:
Warriorfan wrote:Warriors are a very forward thinking team and I believe many things have been laid out in the meeting to get Durant.

The luxury repeater tax is the biggest dread for NBA owners. Warriors last paid the luxury tax 2015-16.

If GS avoids the luxury tax threshold next year 17-1 they will not be 2021- 2022 when they pay the luxury 4 of 5 yrs.

Luxury tax threshold is 114 million.
Durant, Curry and Iggy have to give discounts.

Curry 36, Durant 31.2 , Iggy 3mil.
They can all have opt outs with the promise to be paid later.


That violates the CBA

I'm sure saying we are fully committed to you is not a violation of the CBA.


I'm also sure saying "take a discount now and we'll take care of you later" is a violation.
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