The case for Jonathan Isaac

[PennytoShaq]

Rude? Attitude? Your mistake is that I give a rats ass about either of those things. Johnathan Issac can go **** himself. If we draft him, I will drink heavily, and will wait the 4-5 years before he turns into anything. There is nothing I can do about that. But he hasnt done a damn thing to go around trying to decide who drafts him. He will play for whichever team takes him and he'll like it.

What did the kid ever do to you? Beat you up and take your lunch money? He can go **** himself because he may or may not work out for the Magic? Because he was in Central Fl and not for a work out? Piss poor attitude. How about you go **** yourself.

He's right though, we don't want a player who doesn't wanna be here.

I can't believe every single year, people get emo over agents decisions. You would think after following the draft for a while it would be obvious but - this has nothing to do with Isaac wanting to be here. Nothing. Teams draft players that they do not work out all the time. Some teams work out players and it's mostly smoke.

Agents build value this way. Plain and simple. It's nothing personal against Orlando or any other team.

[SOUL]

He's right though, we don't want a player who doesn't wanna be here.

Not working out for a team ≠ doesn't want to play for a team.

Players do it all the time, mostly because of their agents.

Teams draft players all the time that don't work out for them before the draft.

Calm down, all of you. Especially with the personal insults towards Isaac and each other.

[The Real Dalic]

What did the kid ever do to you? Beat you up and take your lunch money? He can go **** himself because he may or may not work out for the Magic? Because he was in Central Fl and not for a work out? Piss poor attitude. How about you go **** yourself.

He's right though, we don't want a player who doesn't wanna be here.

I can't believe every single year, people get emo over agents decisions. You would think after following the draft for a while it would be obvious but - this has nothing to do with Isaac wanting to be here. Nothing. Teams draft players that they do not work out all the time. Some teams work out players and it's mostly smoke.

Agents build value this way. Plain and simple. It's nothing personal against Orlando or any other team.

He just seems like a guy that wants brighter lights than we can offer. Isn't he the one that said he wanted to play for the Knicks?

[The Real Dalic]

He's right though, we don't want a player who doesn't wanna be here.

Not working out for a team ≠ doesn't want to play for a team.

Players do it all the time, mostly because of their agents.

Teams draft players all the time that don't work out for them before the draft.

Calm down, all of you. Especially with the personal insults towards Isaac and each other.

I understand that, but it just seems like he's not interested in our situation even talking about playing for the Knicks who have the 8th pick and not willing to work out for us. He's wouldn't be the first player to not want to play for the Magic. I want players who want to be here, if we draft him, I hope he really likes to be here and not thinking of leaving he first chance he gets.

[SOUL]

I understand that, but it just seems like he's not interested in our situation even talking about playing for the Knicks who have the 8th pick and not willing to work out for us. He's wouldn't be the first player to not want to play for the Magic. I want players who want to be here, if we draft him, I hope he really likes to be here and not thinking of leaving he first chance he gets.

I'd agree if he had a specific quote like Lonzo saying he only wanted to play for "X" team or even Oladipo when he flat out said he didn't want to play for Cleveland. I get that. All I'm saying is that there are no indications other than some random reports of him not working out past 4 that he wouldn't play for us. Maybe he has a promise, maybe not.

Like Weltman said, culture in basketball is overrated. I don't care if they have team pride before they get drafted, just after. Because when DeVos/Martins/Hennigan when he was here, we only went after certain players in the draft and FA and most of the time it hasn't worked out as well as we've wanted it to.

Most of these young dudes that get drafted by their teams are ride or die until they realize it's a business/they get mishandled/certain incidents happen, that's when they start to not like their surroundings.

[KillMonger]

Here's my best effort with limited research:
-if you're looking for a "two way player" than Tatum is probably the only candidate outside of Jackson in the top 10 to fill that role (I don't consider Isaac a "two way player"). For example,
-Tatum posted solid blocks and steals rate and his rebounding percentage was 19.7%, which is supposedly pretty good
-Tatum's defensive rating (97.8) and defensive win share (1.8) are supposedly pretty good
-He actually weighs more (and it looks like its strength instead of mass) than Isaac which means he has an advantage on both ends of the floor
-As a pick-and-roll ball-handler, he managed to create 1.25 PPP on passes, per Synergy Sports, so he's not just a scorer (NOTE: he didn't pass much on his PnR opportunities, but he passes well when he does give the ball up)
-He's a better free throw shooter than Isaac so if Isaac's free throw percentage bodes positively for Isaac's outside shooting, then
doesn't Tatum's better free throw percentage bode even more positively for his outside shooting?
-he scored at a high level compared to other top prospects, but with a lower usage rate than almost all of them

Not sure how you could say Tatum has the potential to be a "two way" player, but Isaac does not.

Let's go line by line...

-Isaac's block rate, steal rate and rebounding percentage were all higher than Tatum's.
-Isaac's defensive rating was much better and his defensive win shares were higher.
-Isaac is listed at 210, Tatum is listed 205 (going off ESPN and Basketball Reference here). So Isaac is taller, heavier and has a longer wingspan.
-Tatum did have a higher usage than Isaac, but Isaac had a much better TS%, eFG% and also was much better at drawing fouls and getting to the line
-Both guys are good from the line. Tatum is 6% better, but that's not much of an issue when both guys are 78% plus.

Wins for Tatum: ball handling, offensive versatility, isolation play, passing, offensive aggressiveness
Wins for Isaac: measurables, defense versatility, rebounding, getting to the line, offensive efficiency
Wash/Ties: Perimeter shooting

Both guys have pretty clear two-way ability. Tatum is the better offensive player, Isaac the better defensive player/rebounder.

However, the main difference to me is that Isaac already looks like he a passable offensive skill with his ability to shoot from the perimeter whereas Tatum's defensive ability is more predicated on the fact he's big enough and long enough to be solid more so than what he's shown on the court.

If Isaac's off the board, I'd have absolutely no problem with Tatum.

idk if i would rely on him when it comes to shooting, he's a capable shooter but that's about it really....i believe he had a 17% shooting month and another month that he didn't shoot well but i forgot the percentage but it was low....Like i said though he's capable but i'm not sure it'll translate, i mean for example Brandon Ingram was a much better shooter than Issac in college i believe he shot like 40 or 41 percent from 3......only to shoot 30 percent in the NBA and shooting was brandon's most translatable skill at the time in my eyes. Then again, no two guys are the same so maybe it'll be different for Isaac but for me personally i wouldn't rely on that, but he has the foundation.

[SOUL]

He just seems like a guy that wants brighter lights than we can offer. Isn't he the one that said he wanted to play for the Knicks?

I've never seen that quote. But if that's the case then he doesn't mind sliding past 4.

Also I don't think a guy that got offers from Kentucky and Florida (and went to FSU), as well as somebody who in his head might not slip past 4 in Phoenix cares about the bright lights. Phoenix is as medium/small of a market as we are.

[The Real Dalic]

He just seems like a guy that wants brighter lights than we can offer. Isn't he the one that said he wanted to play for the Knicks?

I've never seen that quote. But if that's the case then he doesn't mind sliding past 4.

Also I don't think a guy that got offers from Kentucky and Florida (and went to FSU), as well as somebody who in his head might not slip past 4 in Phoenix cares about the bright lights. Phoenix is as medium/small of a market as we are.

True, but he also gets more exposure right now in PHX because of Booker and the fact that he'd be in the top 5.

[Skin]

He just seems like a guy that wants brighter lights than we can offer. Isn't he the one that said he wanted to play for the Knicks?

I've never seen that quote. But if that's the case then he doesn't mind sliding past 4.

Also I don't think a guy that got offers from Kentucky and Florida (and went to FSU), as well as somebody who in his head might not slip past 4 in Phoenix cares about the bright lights. Phoenix is as medium/small of a market as we are.

True, but he also gets more exposure right now in PHX because of Booker and the fact that he'd be in the top 5.

Philly and Phoenix don't sound like chasing the "brighter lights"... but he could've said that about the Knicks because his hometown is the Bronx.

In either case, he's not a prima donna. lol

[RookieStar]

He's right though, we don't want a player who doesn't wanna be here.

Not working out for a team ≠ doesn't want to play for a team.

Players do it all the time, mostly because of their agents.

Teams draft players all the time that don't work out for them before the draft.

Calm down, all of you. Especially with the personal insults towards Isaac and each other.

I'm just scared of our history of drafting players not working out with us ( see : FRAN )

[Skin]

He's right though, we don't want a player who doesn't wanna be here.

Not working out for a team ≠ doesn't want to play for a team.

Players do it all the time, mostly because of their agents.

Teams draft players all the time that don't work out for them before the draft.

Calm down, all of you. Especially with the personal insults towards Isaac and each other.

I'm just scared of our history of drafting players not working out with us ( see : FRAN )

He moved to Florida to train at IMG versus all the other prominent training spots around the country... and then he chose to go to FSU over bigger better basketball schools... and he has family that lives nearby....

I'm not an expert on what makes people scared, but I don't think you have a reason to be in this particular situation.

[yoyojw17]

I've never seen that quote. But if that's the case then he doesn't mind sliding past 4.

Also I don't think a guy that got offers from Kentucky and Florida (and went to FSU), as well as somebody who in his head might not slip past 4 in Phoenix cares about the bright lights. Phoenix is as medium/small of a market as we are.

True, but he also gets more exposure right now in PHX because of Booker and the fact that he'd be in the top 5.

Philly and Phoenix don't sound like chasing the "brighter lights"... but he could've said that about the Knicks because his hometown is the Bronx.

In either case, he's not a prima donna. lol

I love how "rumors" start. "He wants the bright lights.... i don't want another Dwight Howard on the team" ... And not realizing... the guy is from New York originally... or just decides to ignore the knowledge of that in order to "throw shade"

[RookieStar]

Maybe... still, the Fran debacle is still clearly in our minds.

[yoyojw17]

Maybe... still, the Fran debacle is still clearly in our minds.

That itch that will never go away. lol

[The Real Dalic]

True, but he also gets more exposure right now in PHX because of Booker and the fact that he'd be in the top 5.

Philly and Phoenix don't sound like chasing the "brighter lights"... but he could've said that about the Knicks because his hometown is the Bronx.

In either case, he's not a prima donna. lol

I love how "rumors" start. "He wants the bright lights.... i don't want another Dwight Howard on the team" ... And not realizing... the guy is from New York originally... or just decides to ignore the knowledge of that in order to "throw shade"

Yeah guy, you've got me, I just want to throw shade. That's not at all what it is, I'm just saying he said that and doesn't want to work out with us. With out history, that makes me nervous. Now how about you stop throwing shade and quote me directly instead of hiding behind posters.

[fendilim]

I'm glad he doesnt want to workout for us.

[PennytoShaq]

He's right though, we don't want a player who doesn't wanna be here.

I can't believe every single year, people get emo over agents decisions. You would think after following the draft for a while it would be obvious but - this has nothing to do with Isaac wanting to be here. Nothing. Teams draft players that they do not work out all the time. Some teams work out players and it's mostly smoke.

Agents build value this way. Plain and simple. It's nothing personal against Orlando or any other team.

He just seems like a guy that wants brighter lights than we can offer. Isn't he the one that said he wanted to play for the Knicks?

Isaac is not at all like that. Not sure if we are talking about someone else here. Why would he say he wanted to play for the Knicks? He may have said something nice about them, which again, happens every draft year and people get emo about that stuff as well.

[The Real Dalic]

I can't believe every single year, people get emo over agents decisions. You would think after following the draft for a while it would be obvious but - this has nothing to do with Isaac wanting to be here. Nothing. Teams draft players that they do not work out all the time. Some teams work out players and it's mostly smoke.

Agents build value this way. Plain and simple. It's nothing personal against Orlando or any other team.

He just seems like a guy that wants brighter lights than we can offer. Isn't he the one that said he wanted to play for the Knicks?

Isaac is not at all like that. Not sure if we are talking about someone else here. Why would he say he wanted to play for the Knicks? He may have said something nice about them, which again, happens every draft year and people get emo about that stuff as well.

It's good to know he's not like that. Personally, I don't know much about him in terms of his personality and stuff like that, from all indications he seems like a really good kid. But he did say he would love to be a Knick, Skin says it's because he's from New York, which I didn't know before or forgot and that's something else I've learned in this thread. I've been using this thread to learn as much about him as possible since I didn't know much about him before. However, I'm also always skeptical about people that don't wanna work out for us because we're usually an organization that tends to screw up situations where players aren't happy here or don't wanna be here.

[yoyojw17]

Philly and Phoenix don't sound like chasing the "brighter lights"... but he could've said that about the Knicks because his hometown is the Bronx.

In either case, he's not a prima donna. lol

I love how "rumors" start. "He wants the bright lights.... i don't want another Dwight Howard on the team" ... And not realizing... the guy is from New York originally... or just decides to ignore the knowledge of that in order to "throw shade"

Yeah guy, you've got me, I just want to throw shade. That's not at all what it is, I'm just saying he said that and doesn't want to work out with us. With out history, that makes me nervous. Now how about you stop throwing shade and quote me directly instead of hiding behind posters.

the reason i didn't quote you directly was because it wasn't directed to you personally. Might have used the notion... but I'm not on here to straight disrespect anyone. It was a general comment that piggy backed on his... and was exaggerated in order not fully associate it with other comments.

Point is..... you don't know.... skin doesn't know.... I don't know.... the person that wrote the report hardly knows what's going on.... lol. So if it is what it is.... then that means another player is going to fall. Sucks to feel like we're getting just droppings as most would think.... but i was already happy with 7 players deep in this draft. if we picked

So... i apologize if it came across the wrong way

[MagicFan101]

He just seems like a guy that wants brighter lights than we can offer. Isn't he the one that said he wanted to play for the Knicks?

I've never seen that quote. But if that's the case then he doesn't mind sliding past 4.

Also I don't think a guy that got offers from Kentucky and Florida (and went to FSU), as well as somebody who in his head might not slip past 4 in Phoenix cares about the bright lights. Phoenix is as medium/small of a market as we are.

True, but he also gets more exposure right now in PHX because of Booker and the fact that he'd be in the top 5.

lol, Booker alone doesn't get them more exposure. Give or take a few games isn't going to change the national attention they get.

You have to be in LA or New York or be on a strong playoff team. Simple as that.