Woj: Indy/Boston/PG

[cl2117]

So how exactly do the Celtics manage to land both Hayward and George if that is indeed the intention?

Presumably they have to sign Hayward first. To create max cap space they have to renounce all FA's stash Yabusele again and trade both Terry Rozier and Demetrius Jackson (and that still leaves them $350k short based on the new cap).

So they've got to move one of Smart, Bradley, Crowder in order to create enough space to get Hayward in the first place. Then how do they match salaries, assuming that Tatum/Brown aren't included in the deal?

Seems like it's possible to get them together on the same team, but there's a lot of maneuvering that needs to be done to get them there.

[HartfordWhalers]

Spoiler:

This is just like last year when everyone wanted us to select Dunn to trade. We've seen how that's played out so far. Until Ainge gives me a reason to Doubt him I trust we made the right move. Everyone was bashing him last year when we took Brown who were very happy with while Dunn is used as a throw in in a Butler Deal

Yeah, this makes literally no sense. No one was clamoring for them to take Dunn so they could hold him for a year, improve his value, and then trade him. They were saying Boston should either trade the pick to someone who wanted Dunn or take Dunn to immediately trade him at the draft. Not taking Dunn as people suggested is not a mark of Ainge's genius but rather a demerit to those teams that wanted to acquire the pick to take him.

If he had taken Dunn it would of forced us into a trade while at the same time Devaluing those very same assets were trying to trade because we would have had like a million guards. Ainge took who he thought was best in the draft and who he wouldnt mind keeping if no trade could get done..which makes all the sense in the world to me and I don't think it can be used as a detriment..everyone always expect Ainge to use his assets every year and then when he doesn't they bash him. All because he doesn't do what the other teams want. It's Crazy. Ainge doesn't have to make a move. He can sit on his hands if he pleases.

I'm not sure what nonsense I'm reading, if I'm just misreading you, or if there is a very strange narrative about last year being put forward in which Boston would have taken Dunn without a trade already lined up.

So to be clear:
1) Last year several teams wanted to trade up for pick #3, and then they would select Dunn.
2) Technically it would be after 2pm, so it would have involved the awkward hat dance (Dunn wears a Boston hat while everyone knows he is going to Chicago in an already agreed to deal).
3) No one suggested that Boston select Dunn for themselves as 'trade value' to just sit on. The question was use #3 for yourself, or trade it (with the teams that wanted it most wanting Dunn).
4) several people felt Brown was a poor choice for a guy to pick and keep if going that way. Most of those people leaned towards Murray or Bender. But this is unrelated to the clamor for Boston to trade #3.

[Boneman2]

IMO Butler is worth more than PG

Contracts aside PG is an elite superstar whilst butler is an elite all-star. Butler with 2 years left v/s PG with 1 year left is closer. PG on an extended 3 yr deal, priceless. Value restored to 80% at a minimum..

[Green_teamer]

Yeah, this makes literally no sense. No one was clamoring for them to take Dunn so they could hold him for a year, improve his value, and then trade him. They were saying Boston should either trade the pick to someone who wanted Dunn or take Dunn to immediately trade him at the draft. Not taking Dunn as people suggested is not a mark of Ainge's genius but rather a demerit to those teams that wanted to acquire the pick to take him.

If he had taken Dunn it would of forced us into a trade while at the same time Devaluing those very same assets were trying to trade because we would have had like a million guards. Ainge took who he thought was best in the draft and who he wouldnt mind keeping if no trade could get done..which makes all the sense in the world to me and I don't think it can be used as a detriment..everyone always expect Ainge to use his assets every year and then when he doesn't they bash him. All because he doesn't do what the other teams want. It's Crazy. Ainge doesn't have to make a move. He can sit on his hands if he pleases.

Of course, he can sit on his hands if he pleases. And we're free to disagree with some of those decisions. For instance, I think he was completely correct to hang up the phone on the Clippers offer of DeAndre for #3. I think he was wrong to not beat what I view as the middling price for Butler and Cousins.

Yeah I also agree with not trading # 3 for Deandre Jordan but the Butler thing is more complicated that taking at face value # 3 for Butler. They need to wait to see if they are getting a Max free agent. If they get one than they can trade Bradley/crowder/smart to pair him with Butler or whoever..But if they don't get a max guy could of just aborted his salary while only trading away a Crowder type piece. But the Bulls wanted something done by draft night which is impossible for the Celtics to accommodate if they still want to get a max guy.

Here's my math on the whole thing

Heyward for salary cap room >>> Butler for # 3 and Crowder +

[Green_teamer]

Spoiler:

Yeah, this makes literally no sense. No one was clamoring for them to take Dunn so they could hold him for a year, improve his value, and then trade him. They were saying Boston should either trade the pick to someone who wanted Dunn or take Dunn to immediately trade him at the draft. Not taking Dunn as people suggested is not a mark of Ainge's genius but rather a demerit to those teams that wanted to acquire the pick to take him.

If he had taken Dunn it would of forced us into a trade while at the same time Devaluing those very same assets were trying to trade because we would have had like a million guards. Ainge took who he thought was best in the draft and who he wouldnt mind keeping if no trade could get done..which makes all the sense in the world to me and I don't think it can be used as a detriment..everyone always expect Ainge to use his assets every year and then when he doesn't they bash him. All because he doesn't do what the other teams want. It's Crazy. Ainge doesn't have to make a move. He can sit on his hands if he pleases.

I'm not sure what nonsense I'm reading, if I'm just misreading you, or if there is a very strange narrative about last year being put forward in which Boston would have taken Dunn without a trade already lined up.

So to be clear:
1) Last year several teams wanted to trade up for pick #3, and then they would select Dunn.
2) Technically it would be after 2pm, so it would have involved the awkward hat dance (Dunn wears a Boston hat while everyone knows he is going to Chicago in an already agreed to deal).
3) No one suggested that Boston select Dunn for themselves as 'trade value' to just sit on. The question was use #3 for yourself, or trade it (with the teams that wanted it most wanting Dunn).
4) several people felt Brown was a poor choice for a guy to pick and keep if going that way. Most of those people leaned towards Murray or Bender. But this is unrelated to the clamor for Boston to trade #3.

All I am saying is Ainge obviousily felt Brown was the guy instead of Murray or Bender. The jury is still out who was right but so far he clearly looks better than Dunn. At the same time I remember alot of people Bashing the brown selection while also saying we could of had Dunn...which looks crazy now. Brown might never be an all star but he definitely has shown he has all-star potential. And by all means he has a great work ethic and if it's possible for him to get there I think he will. Murray Bender Booker and a few others have looked pretty good so far too but Brown has more than held his own and I don't think Ainge deserves to be knocked for taking him. I feel like I'm babbling on about things Noone has even brought up at this point lol long story short so far I am very happy with not trading Dunn [Brown] Crowder + for Butler. It just doesn't make sense for where we are. If we get a Heyward he becomes worth trading for but not before

[SBM]

I don't see what Boston has to offer for PG considering 3 recent lottery picks seem to be the going rate.

[Green_teamer]

I don't see what Boston has to offer for PG considering 3 recent lottery picks seem to be the going rate.

Not when George is on record saying he's going to leave in Free Agency and wants to go to the lakers. They won't get anywhere near that.

[NoZoLakers]

So pg would sign a 3yr ext, lose out on more $ to go to bos? Yea i dont think so

[jbk1234]

The problem I see at this point is that Hayward is going to want a commitment from PG before he signs with the Celtics & I'm not sure he's going to get one.

[RightToCensor]

I don't see what Boston has to offer for PG considering 3 recent lottery picks seem to be the going rate.

Almost anything is better than letting Paul George walk in free agency. Jason Tatum, by himself, is better than PG leaving with no return, and what's even more optimistic is that Boston would probably spare more valuable assets for a guy that's very likely to sign his new contract with a team other than the Pacers.

[LightTheBeam]

I don't see what Boston has to offer for PG considering 3 recent lottery picks seem to be the going rate.

Almost anything is better than letting Paul George walk in free agency. Jason Tatum, by himself, is better than PG leaving with no return, and what's even more optimistic is that Boston would probably spare more valuable assets for a guy that's very likely to sign his new contract with a team other than the Pacers.

Im assuming to make the money right for both players the trade needs to include Crowder/Bradley/Rozier/Mickey/Jackson and then I could see Yabusele making sense and maybe the Kings or Lakers pick. Get a 3rd team involved.

[LightTheBeam]

So how exactly do the Celtics manage to land both Hayward and George if that is indeed the intention?

Presumably they have to sign Hayward first. To create max cap space they have to renounce all FA's stash Yabusele again and trade both Terry Rozier and Demetrius Jackson (and that still leaves them $350k short based on the new cap).

So they've got to move one of Smart, Bradley, Crowder in order to create enough space to get Hayward in the first place. Then how do they match salaries, assuming that Tatum/Brown aren't included in the deal?

Seems like it's possible to get them together on the same team, but there's a lot of maneuvering that needs to be done to get them there.

Please Ainge god make it happen. I love to see Laker fans sweat.

[SBM]

It does not matter rather he signs extension or not Boston will still claim he is a rental and try to lowball. 3 recent lotto picks for Butler and I think very similar for 1 year and about 25 games for Cousins.

[OFWGKTA]

If a deal gets done I think it'll be something like Smart/Bradley/Crowder/Lakers 18/Memphis 19/Celtics 18

[SBM]

I wouldn't want any of Boston's current players because people like Smart and Bradley will be up for new contracts next summer.

I wouldn't do it without Tatum and the Nets 18.

[OFWGKTA]

I wouldn't want any of Boston's current players because people like Smart and Bradley will be up for new contracts next summer.

I wouldn't do it without Tatum and the Nets 18.

Shouldn't the Butler deal tell you that something like that just ain't happening?

[SmartWentCrazy]

I wouldn't want any of Boston's current players because people like Smart and Bradley will be up for new contracts next summer.

I wouldn't do it without Tatum and the Nets 18.

The Celtics wouldn't trade either straight up for Butler, who has an extra year on his contract and hasn't publicly declared himself to be leaving in FA. Neither will be on the table for PG13. If that means he finishes out the season in Indy, so be it.

[LightTheBeam]

I wouldn't want any of Boston's current players because people like Smart and Bradley will be up for new contracts next summer.

I wouldn't do it without Tatum and the Nets 18.

Dude the Lakers were offering you 27/28/Randle. If you can swing a 3 way deal with Boston you do it.

Bradley/Crowder to the Pistons

George to Boston

Rozier/LAL 18 or Sac 19/Stanley Johnson/Ellison/Lauer to the pacers

Thats a huge win for the Pacers considering the circumstances. most of your fellow Pacers fans understand that.

[Green_teamer]

I wouldn't want any of Boston's current players because people like Smart and Bradley will be up for new contracts next summer.

I wouldn't do it without Tatum and the Nets 18.

You guys were being offered a bag of chips man by other teams man there is no way your getting Tatum or a Brooklyn pick. What you will get though is bradley/crowder and the lakerpick/sac/Phi swap. Add a late 1st or 2 and that's far better then you guys will get anywhere else.

[winter_mute_13]

I like Smart and Bradley both. Even better if Crowder is in there too.

As to value... at this point we're trying to salvage what we can. It is what it is.