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Trade Thread

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Re: RE: Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#341 » by sco » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:24 pm

RastaBull wrote:
sco wrote:
RastaBull wrote:Can Lakers trade their 2019 1st? I was trying to decipher their pick status and it was a little confusing: https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Lakers.htm

Their 2018 pick is already gone (unprotected from the Lakers perspective) ... it will either be Philly or Boston selecting.

Then they traded a 1st to Orlando. But it specifically says that pick and only be relayed to Orlando 2 YEARS AFTER the pick is relayed the Philly/Bos are getting. It also says something about how that pick to Orlando becomes a 2017 and 2018 2nd instead??


If they can trade their 2019... Would you (or Lakers) say no to Deng+2019 1st for Wade
(obviously this is all moot if Lakers can't trade that 1st)

Lakers relieve themselves of another big salary for 2018 summer. Pushes Ingram into starting spot, let's the young guys run (Randle/Ingram/Ball). Wade could be a good model for what Ball's development. SG is also the one spot currently Lakers don't really have filled in (this would allow Clarkson to stay as the leader on second unit). Gabrielle Union stated I believe she prefers to be in LA. And Wade's presence could better serve to get LeBron the next summer (assuming they resign Wade to a deal that allows them to also grab another star + Lebron)

Bulls bring back a good clubhouse guy in Deng. He fills minutes at the one giant gapping hole we have at SF. We move Wade out of way so more minutes for Lavine. Deng is a High IQ vet with great defensive understanding. Even if we move to compete while Deng's salary is still on (somehow landing another star and/or top draft picks turn out), he could be a solid second unit wing...granted he'd have to get some sembalance of the Miami Deng just a year ago that had 112/105 off/def rating and averaged 13/7 Per36 (maybe he just can't though, he's hit that age and years in league where maybe it is a huge drop off).

Problem is that contract runs deep...3 more years at 18 mil ... and we'll likely have Lavine around 20 mil, so not much room to play with FA the next two summers :-? ... BUT, I do like the way it would balance out the team in the immediate year.

The other downside is the value of the pick. To have another pick in what is expected to be another top heavy superb draft in 2019 sounds great. If we don't land in top 5 or something else, two picks regardless where they are can help us move up a couple spots at least (look at how Portland used there two mid / 20s picks to get into lotto). HOWEVER, if Lakers really are going for James or George in 2018, then there's a chance they could be a very good regular season team in 2018, dropping that 2019 pick pretty low in the first round. :-? ... My gut is thinking that chance doesn't quite make it as worth it to take on Deng's contract ... and hopefully we could find something else better with Wade?


My point is that we are not going to need "good" FA's for next 2-3 years - we want to get the best possible picks for at least the next 2 years. Good FA's get in the way of that. We need to start by finding our next foundational player (top 5 NBA guy). Building ahead of that only slows down process of finding him.

Deng may be one of the best leaders in the NBA. So while we suck, at least our guys learn how to prepare the right way.

So you would say yes to that sort of trade with Lakers. Cuz I would agree too and feel the same way you do about big contracts running 2-3 years. No gi deal if we get a great picj.

Perhaps the bigger fear is that the Lakers pick could end up being a very late 1st if the in fact sing Lebron, George, or Westbrook

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Fair point...we could ask for Zubac instead of a pick.

I'd focus on teams more desperate like the Knicks. Noah is an albatross contract. Their 2019 pick could be gold.
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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#342 » by aguifs » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:40 pm

Can we trade Cash?
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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#343 » by MrFortune3 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:30 pm

aguifs wrote:Can we trade Cash?


If by cash you mean cap spaced used to take on deals to gain more draft assets then yes. :D
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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#344 » by MisterRoy » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:06 pm

I wonder if we could get Bledsoe for a 2nd rd pick. We could just use the TPE from Jimmys trade..


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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#345 » by MC3 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:46 pm

MisterRoy wrote:I wonder if we could get Bledsoe for a 2nd rd pick. We could just use the TPE from Jimmys trade..


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why are you trying make us good? do you know we traded jimmy butler few days ago, if you didnt I apologize then. And we dont own any of our 2nd rounders next two years. We traded them for getting rid of Calderon.
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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#346 » by AirP. » Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:59 pm

MisterRoy wrote:I wonder if we could get Bledsoe for a 2nd rd pick. We could just use the TPE from Jimmys trade..

Take your lumps this next season, then try to rebuild the roster. Chicago needs one of the top players from the 2018 draft and hopefully he's got the potential to be a difference maker. You don't want Bledsoe who would help now, you want a player that's a couple years away from reaching their potential.
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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#347 » by MisterRoy » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:05 pm

I just can't stand the Bulls being bad. They need to be at least entertaining. It just hurts...

We also have to hit the salary floor. I think we are currently sitting at ~$70M, capholds not included. http://www.spotrac.com/nba/chicago-bulls/cap/
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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#348 » by MC3 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:35 pm

MisterRoy wrote:I just can't stand the Bulls being bad. They need to be at least entertaining. It just hurts...

We also have to hit the salary floor. I think we are currently sitting at ~$70M, capholds not included. http://www.spotrac.com/nba/chicago-bulls/cap/

We will offer Mirotic a contract and likely Otto Porter. Maybe even some other guys. But guys who fit in the plan and timeline. Bledsoe does not do nothing for us, specially now. And you want get rid of asset for him, it doesnt make any sense
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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#349 » by nomorezorro » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:58 pm

you don't have to hit the salary floor

you just have to pay everyone on your roster more if you don't hit it
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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#350 » by RastaBull » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:19 am

Answer to hitting salary floor ... answer to still sucking ... answer to being entertaining ... answer to acquiring assets:

Trade with Portland for whatever salary they want rid of bad enough to include their 2018 1st. My guess is that horrible contract for Crabbe or Turner. Crabbe, Turner, Leonard, Harkless all have three years left (Crabbe has third year player option)

Crabbe: 18.5 mil .... 19.3 mil ... 18.5 mil
Turner: 17 mil ...... 17.8 mil ... 18.6 mil
Leonard: 9.9 mil ..... 10.6 mil ... 11.3 mil
Harkless: 9.6 mil ..... 10.3 mil ... 11 mil

If we could get the 1st and have our pick of any of the four, I'd go Harkless. He's the youngest, only 23, very efficient with 50% FG, 35% on low-volume 3P, and he plays that new NBA SF that slides well into small ball 4. Unfortunately, his contract is not nearly as bad as the others, especially when you consider the value just mentioned.

Portland is already at 138 million without any additions or RFA!!!!! And even then in 2019 they still already have 120 mil committed (when salary cap is projected hover around 100 mil). I imagine they will surly give up a pick to unload the biggest contract they can of those. Right? So Crabbe or Turner.

My guess is they'd prefer to unload Turner. Crabbe is younger by three years, and he wasn't HORRIBLE last year, just stayed the same. Maybe they can convince themselves he's got room to grow still. His offensive skill-set...shooting...is more valuable today than Turner's playmaking and very limited shot (especially since the ball is gonna be in Lilliard's hand anyways).

All that said, I would really like Crabbe if he came with a 2018 1st. That third year player option is actually less than Turner's third year haha. With Crabbe you get everything I mentioned:
Salary floor: We can absorb Crabbe's contract ... even as is with Rondo and Wade
Tank: Crabbe is not going to move the needle at all with an 11 PER and no defense, he will get torched in many matchups
Entertaining: Crabbe is perfect for supposed Hoiball, the one thing he does well is get 3P up and in, 40% last year and 42% on corner3P ... no defense, but when Lavine is back you can imagine them running and getting the ball up quickly
Assets: That Portland 1st is going to be worth it for sure, worse case they'll be 7-8 seed (so 16-18 pick), but good chance it could be 10-14 pick too. So if we tank right and get #1 or #2 on our own, then we get a second lotto pick (imagine adding Porter/Doncic AND Bridges!!!), or, if our pick falls 3-6 we can package to move up and ensure we get our guy... Also...contract will be a pain, but come that 2019-20 trade deadline, it'll be a big expiring that could be used to match a star salary with some of our young assets and picks (Anthony Davis anyone :D )
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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#351 » by heir_jordan22 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:45 pm

Wade to PHX for the more favorable of their two 1st round picks (PHX or top 7 protected MIA). If they don't land a free agent this year it still gives them more talent. And gives them more flexibility because Wade expires a year sooner than Dudley. We probably end up with a pick 10-14.

Rondo and Canaan for Connaughton, Ezeli, Davis, Aminu and 2018 lottery protected pick. Unprotected in 2019. They're ridiculous levels over the cap. Cutting Rondo after trade would give them almost $25M in savings.

Lopez to Boston for Zeller BOS 2018 pick. They need a defender and rebounder inside to add to the mix.


Dunn/Grant/Payne
Valentine/Connaughton/Lavine
Zipser/Aminu/Dudley
Markkanen/Davis
Portis/Zeller/Ezeli

We have our pick (top 5), a pick from PHX (theirs or MIA, around 10-14), POR (15-20) and BOS (25-30).


Cut/Buyout options:
Zeller, Ezeli, Davis ($8M each) 2018 FA.
Aminu (8) Dudley (10.5) 2019 FA.
Grant or Payne (only for Trey Burke)

Cutting these guys still counts towards the cap. I believe we still need to spend around $25-30M after the trades to hit the cap floor. So it makes sense to cut a couple guys and sign young free agents.

Free agent options:
Otto Porter
Nerlens Noel
Ben McLemore
Trey Burke (if Payne or Grant is cut)
Mirotic

We could also absorb any contract in the NBA to receive draft picks, and still have money left over.

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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#352 » by MisterRoy » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:14 pm

nomorezorro wrote:you don't have to hit the salary floor

you just have to pay everyone on your roster more if you don't hit it

This is true. However, there has to be a downside to paying people more otherwise it would never come up as an issue.
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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#353 » by bad knees » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:32 pm

MisterRoy wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:you don't have to hit the salary floor

you just have to pay everyone on your roster more if you don't hit it

This is true. However, there has to be a downside to paying people more otherwise it would never come up as an issue.


The point is that there is no marginal economic cost to acquiring contracts that bring you up to the salary floor. The Bulls are going to have to pay 90 M in salaries either way. Taking on a contract (along with a draft asset) that brings you to 90 M means that at least you gain a draft asset by paying that 90 M.

The downside is that the contract that you take on could have negative cap implications going forward - in that it could hamstring you from making other deals. Given that the Bulls won't be signing any big FAs in the next three years, and the fact that their cap space is only going to be increasing in the future when Wade and Rondo come off the books, I think it's fair to say that the Bulls could safely take on a bad contract this summer that brings them up to or close to 90 M. Given that they are at about 72 M after signing Lauri, they have about 18 M to spend. Taking on one of POR's 17 M men - either Turner or Crabbe - is probably the best bet given that POR is substantially over the lux tax line and they need to pay Jurkic a lot of money next summer.
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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#354 » by sco » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:34 pm

heir_jordan22 wrote:Wade to PHX for the more favorable of their two 1st round picks (PHX or top 7 protected MIA). If they don't land a free agent this year it still gives them more talent. And gives them more flexibility because Wade expires a year sooner than Dudley. We probably end upnwith a pick 10-14.

Rondo and Canaan for Connaughton, Ezeli, Davis, Aminu and 2018 lottery protected pick. Unprotected in 2019.

Lopez to Boston for Zeller BOS 2018 pick.


Dunn/Grant/Payne
Valentine/Connaughton/Lavine
Zipser/Aminu/Dudley
Markkanen/Davis
Portis/Zeller/Ezeli

One more roster sport in case we want to re-sign Mirotic or Felicio. If we want both we can buyout Ezeli or Dudley.

Enough cap space to offer someone like Otto Porter the max, or absorb any contract in the league for a draft pick.

We have our pick (top 5), a pick from PHX (theirs or MIA, around 10-14), POR (15-20) and BOS (25-30). Plus the potential to add another pick in 2018 or 2019 by absorbing a bad contract.

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I'm on board with this strategy!

I'm torn on dumping RoLo this year. I doubt he'll net us a 1st, but if he can (cause I think we've tried and failed there), I'm ok. I think he plays and prepares the right way and is a helpful role model for young guys. Lastly, if we're trading RoLo to Boston, I think they have a log-jam at SF...I would love to get Crowder back, even if we need to include more in the trade. I think he's another role model guy who can help with our defense mentality.
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Re: RE: Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#355 » by heir_jordan22 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:43 pm

sco wrote:
heir_jordan22 wrote:Wade to PHX for the more favorable of their two 1st round picks (PHX or top 7 protected MIA). If they don't land a free agent this year it still gives them more talent. And gives them more flexibility because Wade expires a year sooner than Dudley. We probably end upnwith a pick 10-14.

Rondo and Canaan for Connaughton, Ezeli, Davis, Aminu and 2018 lottery protected pick. Unprotected in 2019.

Lopez to Boston for Zeller BOS 2018 pick.


Dunn/Grant/Payne
Valentine/Connaughton/Lavine
Zipser/Aminu/Dudley
Markkanen/Davis
Portis/Zeller/Ezeli

One more roster sport in case we want to re-sign Mirotic or Felicio. If we want both we can buyout Ezeli or Dudley.

Enough cap space to offer someone like Otto Porter the max, or absorb any contract in the league for a draft pick.

We have our pick (top 5), a pick from PHX (theirs or MIA, around 10-14), POR (15-20) and BOS (25-30). Plus the potential to add another pick in 2018 or 2019 by absorbing a bad contract.

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I'm on board with this strategy!

I'm torn on dumping RoLo this year. I doubt he'll net us a 1st, but if he can (cause I think we've tried and failed there), I'm ok. I think he plays and prepares the right way and is a helpful role model for young guys. Lastly, if we're trading RoLo to Boston, I think they have a log-jam at SF...I would love to get Crowder back, even if we need to include more in the trade. I think he's another role model guy who can help with our defense mentality.

Made some edits to my post.

Wade to PHX for the more favorable of their two 1st round picks (PHX or top 7 protected MIA). If they don't land a free agent this year it still gives them more talent. And gives them more flexibility because Wade expires a year sooner than Dudley. We probably end up with a pick 10-14.

Rondo and Canaan for Connaughton, Ezeli, Davis, Aminu and 2018 lottery protected pick. Unprotected in 2019. They're ridiculous levels over the cap. Cutting Rondo after trade would give them almost $25M in savings.

Lopez to Boston for Zeller BOS 2018 pick. They need a defender and rebounder inside to add to the mix.


Dunn/Grant/Payne
Valentine/Connaughton/Lavine
Zipser/Aminu/Dudley
Markkanen/Davis
Portis/Zeller/Ezeli

We have our pick (top 5), a pick from PHX (theirs or MIA, around 10-14), POR (15-20) and BOS (25-30).


Cut/Buyout options:
Zeller, Ezeli, Davis ($8M each) 2018 FA.
Aminu (8) Dudley (10.5) 2019 FA.
Grant or Payne (only for Trey Burke)

Cutting these guys still counts towards the cap. I believe we still need to spend around $25M after the trades to hit the cap floor. So it makes sense to cut a couple guys and sign young free agents.

Free agent options:
Otto Porter
Nerlens Noel
Ben McLemore
Trey Burke
Mirotic
Teodosic

We could also absorb any contract in the NBA to receive draft picks, and still have money left over.

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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#356 » by HoopsterJones » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:54 pm

Houston and Portland are candidates looking to move salary at the cost of attaching a likely late 1st round pick. The Bulls should capitalize on this.
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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#357 » by eddieheatfan » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:05 pm

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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#358 » by nike1 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:53 am

would like to try and get otto porter,
think mclemore would be a decent pickup too.
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Re: RE: Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#359 » by heir_jordan22 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:30 am

nike1 wrote:would like to try and get otto porter,
think mclemore would be a decent pickup too.

Most people think McClemore is a bum because he disappointed as a too pick but I think he's be a really good value signing. Still really young and athletic. Tons of upside

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Re: Trade Thread: Off-season edition 

Post#360 » by GimmeDat » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:10 am

I liked Ben if we kept Butler - now we've moved him, I don't see the point. McLemore is 24 now.. not old by any means, but he has no relevance to our rebuild and the back-court isn't the place we need players.

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