Chris Paul Opts In; Then Traded To Houston

[OkcSinceSGA]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/clippers/la-sp-new-clippers-20170628-story,amp.html

Scout breaks down Clippers additions in trade.

[HotTubMike]

The only obstacle for the Cavs is moving Love for an expiring or a draft pick. Once they do that we only have Kyrie, Shumpert, JR and Tristan under contract. Shumpert could easily be moved for a 2nd round pick. That leaves you with what could be around $50 million. If Wade, CP3 and Melo want more than that, they could easily trade Kyrie for a 1st round pick.

So in reality, all we need to do is move Love, Shumpert and Kyrie for draft picks and we would have plenty of space. Might even be able to keep Kyrie.

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You can't just trade players like that.

You have to match salaries.

You can't just trade away all those huge contracts for free.

Depends on how serious the Cavs are. Shumpert, Love and Kyrie are all young enough to fetch draft picks from teams that could absorb their salaries, it would work.

And again, they could potentially keep one of those guys if CP3, Melo and Wade took about $15 million each.

Heck, they could keep Kyrie and Shumpert if they would take $10 million each. Doubt CP3 does that though.

If there's one thing I've learned from the Cavs over the years, it's that anything is possible with the cap.

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I think you're underestimating how much trouble you are in cap wise..

Not many teams have tons of room to absorb large cap hits... they will need to send salary back.

There is a reason the Rockets had to trade 8 players to trade for CP3... it wasn't just "we will send you a 1st round pick and take the 24 million CP3 is owed in" - you have to match salaries. Clippers probably didn't want half of those guys. Liggins, Hillad and Wiltjer weren't on the Clippers demand list... they had to be included to make the salaries work.

You need to move a lot of big salaries and not take back any salary.That is not realistic. You also don't have any picks to help facilitate that. That is not as easy as just saying it on the internet. You also need lots of guys to take big pay cuts.... you realize how crazy this sounds right? Cavs are wildly over the cap and in a terrible situation. They have basically no room to maneuver at all.

[Screwston]

You can't just trade players like that.

You have to match salaries.

You can't just trade away all those huge contracts for free.

Depends on how serious the Cavs are. Shumpert, Love and Kyrie are all young enough to fetch draft picks from teams that could absorb their salaries, it would work.

And again, they could potentially keep one of those guys if CP3, Melo and Wade took about $15 million each.

Heck, they could keep Kyrie and Shumpert if they would take $10 million each. Doubt CP3 does that though.

If there's one thing I've learned from the Cavs over the years, it's that anything is possible with the cap.

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I think you're underestimating how much trouble you are in cap wise..

Not many teams have tons of room to absorb large cap hits... they will need to send salary back.

There is a reason the Rockets had to trade 8 players to trade for CP3... it wasn't just "we will send you a 1st round pick and take the 24 million CP3 is owed in" - you have to match salaries. Clipper probably didn't want half of those guys.

You need to move a lot of big salaries and not take back any salary.That is not realistic. You also don't have any picks to help facilitate that. That is not as easy as just saying it on the internet. You also need lots of guys to take big pay cuts.... you realize how crazy this sounds right? Cavs are wildly over the cap and in a terrible situation. They have basically no room to maneuver at all.

Yep

[Mr B]

Still don't see how this makes Houston good enough to beat the Warriors or Spurs. Especially if they trade for Carmelo (or sign him after he's bought out). They will be an implosion waiting to happen.

[HotTubMike]

Still don't see how this makes Houston good enough to beat the Warriors or Spurs. Especially if they trade for Carmelo (or sign him after he's bought out). They will be an implosion waiting to happen.

Maybe but they are going for it.... it's risky but they weren't going to beat anyone standing pat on the team they had in 2016/2017... had to take some risks... they also aren't done so lets reserve judgment until the off-season is over.

[Screwston]

Still don't see how this makes Houston good enough to beat the Warriors or Spurs. Especially if they trade for Carmelo (or sign him after he's bought out). They will be an implosion waiting to happen.

Not yet but they'll probably get another star George/Millsap/Melo, n then in the summer they can sign another decent fa, n sign cp3 with the bird rights, so yea by this time next year they might have big 4, if everything goes well

[Fico92]

I think you're severly underestimating the cap situation Cleveland is in... and way overestimating Houston's cap position.

Cleveland has $128 million (25 million over the cap) committed for 2018/2019 ..... guys like Thompson, Smith, Shumpert, Irving, Love .... all have massive contracts owed to them that year... you have absolutely no flexibility to bring in CP3 or anyone else without getting rid of multiple huge pieces of the team...

Meanwhile Houston has $75 million committed with tons of flexibility.

Absolutely nobody is saying Cleveland is in a good cap situation right now... there situation is awful and they have no picks to help move salary.

If Lebron wants to play with CP3 its going to be in Houston and not Cleveland. Like I said, CP3 forced his way to Houston to play with Harden (something you won't address). Lebron respects Harden and badly wants to play with CP3. It makes a lot of sense for Lebron to come to Houston in 2018 if he doesn't want to roll with cap hell in Cleveland. Cleveland cannot make any significant moves at all.

The only obstacle for the Cavs is moving Love for an expiring or a draft pick. Once they do that we only have Kyrie, Shumpert, JR and Tristan under contract. Shumpert could easily be moved for a 2nd round pick. That leaves you with what could be around $50 million. If Wade, CP3 and Melo want more than that, they could easily trade Kyrie for a 1st round pick.

So in reality, all we need to do is move Love, Shumpert and Kyrie for draft picks and we would have plenty of space. Might even be able to keep Kyrie.

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You can't just trade players like that.

You have to match salaries.

You can't just trade away all those huge contracts for free.

Ok that's an absolute pipe dream there...

LeBron(a player whose team plays best when the ball is in his hands), is gonna go to a team with two point guards(whose teams play best when the ball is in their hands)?

Why wouldn't he go to San Antonio where 1. The ball can be in his hands with Kawhi as his 2nd option, 2. He doesn't have to guard the opponent's primary perimeter scorer because Kawhi does that, 3. He has Pop as his coach, 4. The Spurs have a much better cap situation (as it stands right now) at that time? Because he wants to play with a CP3 who will be 34 by the time those playoffs roll around?

[ProfessorJM]

This helps Houston, but for the following year, I still think LeBron will lean towards the Lakers if George signs there. (no sure thing but I still think PG wants to play for Magic) Does playing with Paul/Harden trump Los Angeles? I have a hard time believing Chris Paul would go to Cleveland under any circumstances personally. Friendship is one thing, but I doubt it.

[Screwston]

The only obstacle for the Cavs is moving Love for an expiring or a draft pick. Once they do that we only have Kyrie, Shumpert, JR and Tristan under contract. Shumpert could easily be moved for a 2nd round pick. That leaves you with what could be around $50 million. If Wade, CP3 and Melo want more than that, they could easily trade Kyrie for a 1st round pick.

So in reality, all we need to do is move Love, Shumpert and Kyrie for draft picks and we would have plenty of space. Might even be able to keep Kyrie.

Sent from my SM-T350 using RealGM mobile app

You can't just trade players like that.

You have to match salaries.

You can't just trade away all those huge contracts for free.

Ok that's an absolute pipe dream there...

LeBron(a player whose team plays best when the ball is in his hands), is gonna go to a team with two point guards(whose teams play best when the ball is in their hands)?

Why wouldn't he go to San Antonio where 1. The ball can be in his hands with Kawhi as his 2nd option, 2. He doesn't have to guard the opponent's primary perimeter scorer because Kawhi does that, 3. He has Pop as his coach, 4. The Spurs have a much better cap situation (as it stands right now) at that time? Because he wants to play with a CP3 who will be 34 by the time those playoffs roll around?

Bc houston is making another move, theres no way in hell cp3 came just to play with harden, come on man

[Mr B]

Still don't see how this makes Houston good enough to beat the Warriors or Spurs. Especially if they trade for Carmelo (or sign him after he's bought out). They will be an implosion waiting to happen.

Not yet but they'll probably get another star George/Millsap/Melo, n then in the summer they can sign another decent fa, n sign cp3 with the bird rights, so yea by this time next year they might have big 4, if everything goes well

Who's going to play defense?

[Fico92]

You can't just trade players like that.

You have to match salaries.

You can't just trade away all those huge contracts for free.

Ok that's an absolute pipe dream there...

LeBron(a player whose team plays best when the ball is in his hands), is gonna go to a team with two point guards(whose teams play best when the ball is in their hands)?

Why wouldn't he go to San Antonio where 1. The ball can be in his hands with Kawhi as his 2nd option, 2. He doesn't have to guard the opponent's primary perimeter scorer because Kawhi does that, 3. He has Pop as his coach, 4. The Spurs have a much better cap situation (as it stands right now) at that time? Because he wants to play with a CP3 who will be 34 by the time those playoffs roll around?

Bc houston is making another move, theres no way in hell cp3 came just to play with harden, come on man

Ah, just like Boston has been making a move for about 2 weeks now?

Even if they "make another move" (assuming you're talking about a significant player), how will they pay 4 players a Supermax? Or is LeBron going to take a paycut, in which case, once again, why wouldn't he go to the Spurs who have a better coach, a better player, and even more cap space where he wouldn't need to take a pay cut?

[HotTubMike]

The only obstacle for the Cavs is moving Love for an expiring or a draft pick. Once they do that we only have Kyrie, Shumpert, JR and Tristan under contract. Shumpert could easily be moved for a 2nd round pick. That leaves you with what could be around $50 million. If Wade, CP3 and Melo want more than that, they could easily trade Kyrie for a 1st round pick.

So in reality, all we need to do is move Love, Shumpert and Kyrie for draft picks and we would have plenty of space. Might even be able to keep Kyrie.

Sent from my SM-T350 using RealGM mobile app

You can't just trade players like that.

You have to match salaries.

You can't just trade away all those huge contracts for free.

Ok that's an absolute pipe dream there...

LeBron(a player whose team plays best when the ball is in his hands), is gonna go to a team with two point guards(whose teams play best when the ball is in their hands)?

Why wouldn't he go to San Antonio where 1. The ball can be in his hands with Kawhi as his 2nd option, 2. He doesn't have to guard the opponent's primary perimeter scorer because Kawhi does that, 3. He has Pop as his coach, 4. The Spurs have a much better cap situation (as it stands right now) at that time? Because he wants to play with a CP3 who will be 34 by the time those playoffs roll around?

Why do you have a GSW thing I thought you were a spurs fan?

1. what makes you think Lebron wants the ball in his hand? He isn't a PG... he likes playing with All-star guards (D-wade/kryie) this would be no different.
2. Ariza is a pretty good primary wing defender too
3. D'Antoni is a good coach too...
4. The Spurs cap situation isn't that great... they have LMA and Leonard on Max contracts... idk how you figure it is "much better" that is nonsense...explain that.
5. Yes, it is well known Lebron wants to play with CP3... if Houston this year has Harden, CP3 and maybe Melo/Millsap or PG13... Lebron could definitely want to come join that team.

[SF_Warriors]

I think you're severly underestimating the cap situation Cleveland is in... and way overestimating Houston's cap position.

Cleveland has $128 million (25 million over the cap) committed for 2018/2019 ..... guys like Thompson, Smith, Shumpert, Irving, Love .... all have massive contracts owed to them that year... you have absolutely no flexibility to bring in CP3 or anyone else without getting rid of multiple huge pieces of the team...

Meanwhile Houston has $75 million committed with tons of flexibility.

Absolutely nobody is saying Cleveland is in a good cap situation right now... there situation is awful and they have no picks to help move salary.

If Lebron wants to play with CP3 its going to be in Houston and not Cleveland. Like I said, CP3 forced his way to Houston to play with Harden (something you won't address). Lebron respects Harden and badly wants to play with CP3. It makes a lot of sense for Lebron to come to Houston in 2018 if he doesn't want to roll with cap hell in Cleveland. Cleveland cannot make any significant moves at all.

The only obstacle for the Cavs is moving Love for an expiring or a draft pick. Once they do that we only have Kyrie, Shumpert, JR and Tristan under contract. Shumpert could easily be moved for a 2nd round pick. That leaves you with what could be around $50 million. If Wade, CP3 and Melo want more than that, they could easily trade Kyrie for a 1st round pick.

So in reality, all we need to do is move Love, Shumpert and Kyrie for draft picks and we would have plenty of space. Might even be able to keep Kyrie.

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You can't just trade players like that.

You have to match salaries.

You can't just trade away all those huge contracts for free.

Well, unless you trade them to a team like the sixers or kings..teams that can absorb salaries. I would imagine some type of filler needs to be sent back to the cavs.

I would imagine teams like that wouldn't mind trading a protected first rounder for an all star caliber talent. Heck, they might even be down to make it an unprotected.

Or as he alluded to, find a team with expiring contract(s)

[XcalibuR]

Still don't see how this makes Houston good enough to beat the Warriors or Spurs. Especially if they trade for Carmelo (or sign him after he's bought out). They will be an implosion waiting to happen.

Not yet but they'll probably get another star George/Millsap/Melo, n then in the summer they can sign another decent fa, n sign cp3 with the bird rights, so yea by this time next year they might have big 4, if everything goes well

Who's going to play defense?

Capella, Paul, George.

[Screwston]

Ok that's an absolute pipe dream there...

LeBron(a player whose team plays best when the ball is in his hands), is gonna go to a team with two point guards(whose teams play best when the ball is in their hands)?

Why wouldn't he go to San Antonio where 1. The ball can be in his hands with Kawhi as his 2nd option, 2. He doesn't have to guard the opponent's primary perimeter scorer because Kawhi does that, 3. He has Pop as his coach, 4. The Spurs have a much better cap situation (as it stands right now) at that time? Because he wants to play with a CP3 who will be 34 by the time those playoffs roll around?

Bc houston is making another move, theres no way in hell cp3 came just to play with harden, come on man

Ah, just like Boston has been making a move for about 2 weeks now?

Even if they "make another move" (assuming you're talking about a significant player), how will they pay 4 players a Supermax? Or is LeBron going to take a paycut, in which case, once again, why wouldn't he go to the Spurs who have a better coach, a better player, and even more cap space where he wouldn't need to take a pay cut?

Spurs can't match a potential Cp3, harden, george/millsap squad/appeal so no it won't be better. Pretty sure LeBron wouldn't mind taking a paycut at that stage of his career, especially if he loses in the finals again. Rockets just gotta trade for George or make Atl s&t for Millsap, n they're good. In the summer they'll have cp3 bird rights so they can sign him over the cap, n then I'm pretty sure they can do the same thing with Harden once his contract is up, so they can make it work.

[Mr B]

Not yet but they'll probably get another star George/Millsap/Melo, n then in the summer they can sign another decent fa, n sign cp3 with the bird rights, so yea by this time next year they might have big 4, if everything goes well

Who's going to play defense?

Capella, Paul, George.

I just don't see it working. You can't have your best players being your worst defenders. If only one was a horrible defender and everyone else was great on defense it could work but not when all your starters are bad on defense.

[Shock Defeat]

Still don't see how this makes Houston good enough to beat the Warriors or Spurs. Especially if they trade for Carmelo (or sign him after he's bought out). They will be an implosion waiting to happen.

The spurs aren't good. Rockets almost beat them last year, now they added Chris Paul.

[Fico92]

You can't just trade players like that.

You have to match salaries.

You can't just trade away all those huge contracts for free.

Ok that's an absolute pipe dream there...

LeBron(a player whose team plays best when the ball is in his hands), is gonna go to a team with two point guards(whose teams play best when the ball is in their hands)?

Why wouldn't he go to San Antonio where 1. The ball can be in his hands with Kawhi as his 2nd option, 2. He doesn't have to guard the opponent's primary perimeter scorer because Kawhi does that, 3. He has Pop as his coach, 4. The Spurs have a much better cap situation (as it stands right now) at that time? Because he wants to play with a CP3 who will be 34 by the time those playoffs roll around?

Why do you have a GSW thing I thought you were a spurs fan?

1. what makes you think Lebron wants the ball in his hand? He isn't a PG... he likes playing with All-star guards (D-wade/kryie) this would be no different.
2. Ariza is a pretty good primary wing defender too
3. D'Antoni is a good coach too...
4. The Spurs cap situation isn't that great... they have LMA and Leonard on Max contracts... idk how you figure it is "much better" that is nonsense...explain that.
5. Yes, it is well known Lebron wants to play with CP3... if Houston this year has Harden, CP3 and maybe Melo/Millsap or PG13... Lebron could definitely want to come join that team.

1. For starters, his 6.1 minutes per game with the ball in his hands. He is the only non-point guard who has over 5.0 minutes a game.
2. This is true. Can you keep Ariza if you have 4 supermax players? Or is LeBron, who is widely known to be unwilling to take ANY discount, going to take a discount here to play with a 34 year old Paul (he'll be 34 in that year's playoffs)?
3. How has he done in the playoffs? Regular season - great coach no doubt. Gets exposed in playoffs.
4. In this imaginary world where "max names might sign with the Rockets", the Spurs "might also get rid of Aldridge". Or, he might just decline his player option after next year since he supposedly wants out, and put his house for sale already in SA. In that case, the Spurs (as it stands) have Kawhi Leonard at 21 million, and Danny Green player option of 10 million. That's it.
5. Again, I'm confused. In 2018/2019, Paul is getting a 5 yr / 205m contract. LeBron will get that (if not more), right? Since he's not taking discounts. That would mean in this theoretical scenario where you already picked up a 3rd star before LeBron, you're going to somehow have this lineup prior to adding a 40m a year LeBron?

CP3: 41m
Harden: 30.5m
Player X (Paul George? Melo?): 30m
Ryan Anderson: 20.5m

122 million, among 4 players.

"For 2018-19, the NBA estimates a cap of $103 million with the tax line at $125 million."

Explain please?

[picc]

Lebron and Wade worked. Harden Durant and Westbrook worked. Lebron and Irving works. People were even using the"only one ball" argument against this years warriors. Its a stupid argument that has no real basis in reality as far as i can recall. To add to that, both Harden and Paul can shoot well from distance. So whats this about?

Can someone show me an example of two+ supremely talented ball dominant players in their prime not working out?

Because right now it just seems like another case of realgmers outsmarting themselves into doubting something common sense should tell them is a good thing.

There are many examples of all stars who played together and did not work well. You mentioned Harden , Westbrook and Durant. No that chemistry did not work. If it had worked Harden would still be in OKC. And OKC would have a dynasty. Wade with Lebron had better chemistry than Irving and Lebron.

Other recent examples:
Butler-Rondo
Carmelo-D. Rose-
Carmelo-Studemire
Carmelo-Iverson (Nuggets)
Kevin Love With Lebron
Le Marcus Aldridge with Leonard( Do you think they fit with eachtoher?)
Let me remind you that all these trades/transactions were made with the highest ambitions of their teams who purchased them.

To be fair you mentioned 2 important words "Dominant", and "Prime" . YEs well of course you refer to a specific group of talented players who could be future HOF. Then I must say as well that any future HOF can play in any team with any other all star next to him, because they are just too good not to play well.
Under that perspective you are correct. But its more than obvious than some all stars fit better with other all stars and some others do not. For example no one tho had suspected that D.Howard's career would have such a decline from the moment he left Orlando. Same can happen with CP3 or with other player.Some players just dont fit with some teams..Cp3 wouldn't fit better with Spurs?

I'm glad you recognized that fact, after listing a grouping of players who had absolutely nothing to do with what I meant, as if it was supposed to refute my point. You're clearly just being a contrarian for some weird reason, which I don't really care to engage.

The rest of your post is irrelevant to my question and I have no idea why you typed any of it.

[XcalibuR]

Who's going to play defense?

Capella, Paul, George.

I just don't see it working. You can't have your best players being your worst defenders. If only one was a horrible defender and everyone else was great on defense it could work but not when all your starters are bad on defense.

All 3 of those guys are good on defense. Curry is not exactly a good defender, he gets sheltered by the other great defenders, just like Harden would be.