Rumors Surfacing of Houston, Portland, NYK Trade

[wjun15]

And I have been a better actor than Rob Schneider. I ain't getting any blockbuster feature films. Harkless was useless the last series, the one before that he had a good game where Klay shot poorly while defending him. I am just saying we need to value 3 point shooting now that we are stuck with 2 rotation wings that can't do that in Aminu and Turner. Harkless is the only one of the 3 that can get us what none of them can do, 3 point shooting.

Harkless was the best acqusition Olshey did the last 5 years outside of dame/cj/nurkic. its sad that our only way to get rid of our garbage is to package harkless with them because hes the only one teams value.

We aren't getting rid of Meyers we are gaining a better player/fit. Also Rolo and Ed were big pickups.

yeah rolo was big, but for the price that we paid to get harkless it was a great pickup

[Effigy]

If this deal is going to happen...

Melo makes $26.3 million, Harkless $9.7 million, Leonard $9.9 million, and Anderson $19.6 million.

NY needs to take back a little more (I know they are below the salary cap).
Houston needs to give up a little more (I believe they are just below the salary cap, but only have 11 players under contract?).
I sure hope Turner goes to NY and preferably Leonard. Harkless if it's necessary for them to take Turner. I want Leonard gone, but his salary is a lot easier to deal with than Turner's. I'd like to keep Harkless if possible.

Supposedly Ariza would be going to New York. His contract meshes perfectly.

[wjun15]

hes not terrible but not good. hes way more feisty than dame tho. i would say average.

Hes well good to very good against PG's and just average against SG'S due to the amount size he gives up.

both Dame and CJ have the same defensive rating of 113. Portland's team defensive rating is 110.8, so, both are worse then the team average which matches the eyeball test, IMO

Dame holds opposing PG's to an eFG% of .485 and a PER of 16.4
CJ holds opposing PG's to an eFG% of .491 and a PER of 16.5

and it's worth noting that CJ usually was going against 2nd unit PG's while Dame was facing starters. So, if CJ is "good to very good" against PG's, so is Dame....and it's kind of hard to buy that

the problems both have is that they are easily re-directed at screens and find it tough to fight thru, and if they do, they don't have the length to compensate for being a step slow in reaction and pursuit.

Numbers often are misleading. Take for instance, Avery Bradley, who is considered one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. All the NBA players (who actually play against these guys) were shocked when Bradley didn't make an all defensive team. When Bradley was on the court, Celts had a net defensive rating of -3.7. Contrast this to CP3, where his team differential rating was +8.8 when he's on the court. Bradley had a -1.72 defensive real +/-. Also Bradley had a "points allowed per possession defender" of 0.922, good for 50th in the NBA. Does that mean Bradley is not a good defender? Bottom line, theres way more to stats than opposing PG's eFG. Its a team scheme, and CJ is in there for longer stretches in the late 1st, early 2nd qtr than Dame + responsible for carrying the offensive load when Dame is out, hence perhaps less focus on D. There are just so many variables, and one of them is the "eye test". I think the majority of Blazers fans would agree that CJ is a bit better than Dame at defense due to his feistiness. That said, I wouldn't consider CJ a "good defender" just average. However CJ at his worst was no where close to Dame at his worst (the Memphis series when we lost with LMA, it was literally one of the worst defensive performances I have ever seen in a series from a star, maybe worse than Harden. Beno Udrich ate him alive).

[Goldbum]

Turner and Leonard.. Uh yeah
Crabbe and Leonard.. mm. Possibly
Harkless and Leonard.. Not happening

My thoughts exactly.

This rumor does bring up an interesting question though...

If the cost to dump Meyers is Moe(let's say Meyers/Moe for a TPE), would you do it? So you get nothing except the ability to strike both contracts from the books...
Assuming Moe is worth roughly a 1st, and the cost of dropping Meyers is a first, should be even. IDK if I do it or not...

[dunlop212]

If the cost to dump Meyers is Moe(let's say Meyers/Moe for a TPE), would you do it? So you get nothing except the ability to strike both contracts from the books...
Assuming Moe is worth roughly a 1st, and the cost of dropping Meyers is a first, should be even. IDK if I do it or not...

The one thing we have learned over the past month is that the price of dumping toxic contracts is astronomical. Portland would readily dump Moe and Meyers for nothing, or even a shorter term toxic contract. The only reason the proposed trade makes sense is if Portland thinks Anderson is more movable down the line. Not going to happen IMHO.

[PDXKnight]

If the cost to dump Meyers is Moe(let's say Meyers/Moe for a TPE), would you do it? So you get nothing except the ability to strike both contracts from the books...
Assuming Moe is worth roughly a 1st, and the cost of dropping Meyers is a first, should be even. IDK if I do it or not...

The one thing we have learned over the past month is that the price of dumping toxic contracts is astronomical. Portland would readily dump Moe and Meyers for nothing, or even a shorter term toxic contract. The only reason the proposed trade makes sense is if Portland thinks Anderson is more movable down the line. Not going to happen IMHO.

Tim hardaway jr got almost what crabbe is making and ac is much more efficient. I feel like if we need salary relief that bad we can probably find a taker for ac. Also as these contracts get shorter they'll hold more value i.e. At the trade deadline or draft/free agency next year.

I think the answer to the original question here boils down to 1 thing: will keeping these bad contracts prevent pa from retaining nurkic? If the answer is yes I'd be looking for trades to dump the bad contracts even if it costs a lotto protected first or a valuable rotation player since Cj, lillard, nurk must be kept over any other individual player. If PA Is willing to pay all of the guys and nurkic then no move is necessary.

[Wizenheimer]

Hes well good to very good against PG's and just average against SG'S due to the amount size he gives up.

both Dame and CJ have the same defensive rating of 113. Portland's team defensive rating is 110.8, so, both are worse then the team average which matches the eyeball test, IMO

Dame holds opposing PG's to an eFG% of .485 and a PER of 16.4
CJ holds opposing PG's to an eFG% of .491 and a PER of 16.5

and it's worth noting that CJ usually was going against 2nd unit PG's while Dame was facing starters. So, if CJ is "good to very good" against PG's, so is Dame....and it's kind of hard to buy that

the problems both have is that they are easily re-directed at screens and find it tough to fight thru, and if they do, they don't have the length to compensate for being a step slow in reaction and pursuit.

Numbers often are misleading. Take for instance, Avery Bradley, who is considered one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. All the NBA players (who actually play against these guys) were shocked when Bradley didn't make an all defensive team. When Bradley was on the court, Celts had a net defensive rating of -3.7. Contrast this to CP3, where his team differential rating was +8.8 when he's on the court. Bradley had a -1.72 defensive real +/-. Also Bradley had a "points allowed per possession defender" of 0.922, good for 50th in the NBA. Does that mean Bradley is not a good defender? Bottom line, theres way more to stats than opposing PG's eFG. Its a team scheme, and CJ is in there for longer stretches in the late 1st, early 2nd qtr than Dame + responsible for carrying the offensive load when Dame is out, hence perhaps less focus on D. There are just so many variables, and one of them is the "eye test". I think the majority of Blazers fans would agree that CJ is a bit better than Dame at defense due to his feistiness. That said, I wouldn't consider CJ a "good defender" just average. However CJ at his worst was no where close to Dame at his worst (the Memphis series when we lost with LMA, it was literally one of the worst defensive performances I have ever seen in a series from a star, maybe worse than Harden. Beno Udrich ate him alive).

I know isolated stats can be deceptive; especially defensive stats and perhaps none more then those on/off stats; I think those are pretty tricky. That's why I didn't use them

one set of numbers I do tend to think reflect reality somewhat are those defensive ratings numbers in the context or where a player lands in relation to the team number. Bradley was 0.4 better then his team's rating; Dame and CJ are 2.8 worse. 0,4 doesn't seem like much but Boston's rotation players, with one exception, were all in a group. Boston's rating was 108.4; seven different rotation players were 107 or 108; 3 more were 109. The one exception was Isaiah Thomas at 114, 5.8 worse then his team... . Anyway, 0'4 doesn't seem like much but when you have such a small variance among rotation players, it is significant

and while Dame and CJ were holding their opponents to an eFG% around .490 and a PER around 16.5, Bradley's opponents had eFG% of .452 and a PER of 11.8. It's also worth noting that Bradley spent a lot of the season injured; he only played in 55 games. I'd guess that had some impact

I'd probably rate CJ a little better on defense then Dame, but not by much. Generally, they both suck. CJ can get by with a little "feistiness" as he tends to encounter more off-ball screens while Dame spends more time being crunched in PnR on ball screens, usually set by starting big men; scrappiness near the ball is going to draw more whistles. Dame also plays against starting level PG's while CJ against starting level SG's and I'd think the eye test would say that the PG position right now is stronger then the SG position. For instance, Portland plays OKC Dame guards Westbrook while CJ draws Oladipo or Roberson; against LAC, Dame takes Paul, CJ takes Redick. Few easy assignments, but NBA PG's are just a lot better at putting opponents on skates. CJ does get his hands on more passes with steals or deflections so maybe he has a little better anticipation then Dame

and of course, what we saw over the last 2 years is that when either Dame or CJ were getting torched by their assignments, Stotts dialed 911 and put Harkless on the torcher. He put Turner on the torchers a little last season but it became apparent quickly that while Turner can do a decent job, sometimes, on larger wings, he gets burned consistently by speed

and finally, Portland's ICE defense did no favors at all for their small backcourt. The bigs heading way back at every on ball screen left Dame and CJ and Napier all on islands at the point of attack. That Udrih example was Dame being run into screen after screen being set by Gasol or Zach, allowing Udrih to round the screen unchallenged, and have a wide open mid-range shooting space because Lopez or Aldridge or Kaman or Meyers were 8 feet away covering the paint on the floor rather than the man with the ball

[DaVoiceMaster]

I think when CJ wants to, he can play better defense than he does most of the time. Didn't Calabro say duringthe season CJ was second in guards at blocking shots? That's only one piece of playing defense, but I think when CJ wants to, he can play better than average defense. He's no defensive stopper by any means, but I think he steps up when he wants to. Unfortunately, we don't see if very often. I wanna say he played decent defense in the playoffs this year, but that was so long ago I can't remember for sure now. Dame is Dame and his defense is simply so-so. :yawn:

[skoharry]

what if brooklyn were to be involved like this[it would only be if they missed out on KCP]
portland get anderson, lin, & kilpatrick/harris/lavert
houston gets melo
new york gets meyers & moe
brooklyn gets crabbe[once he can be traded to them]
now of course some picks and $ would need to be included. but would more of you accept this trade?

[DaVoiceMaster]

Houston has to give up more. Someone said Ariza would go to NY, as well. I'd sure rather see Turner go to NY than Harkless. At this point, I think i'm okay keeping Crabbe, so long as he comes back from his foot injury okay. I think he can do more than he did last year if Turner is out of the way. I think I would make Turner the #1 option for making a trade. Need to clear his salary and spot in the rotation. Meyers sucks, but his contract is not nearly as bad as Turners. Let's find out just how much Phil likes Turner and try to send him to NY in a Melo deal. Houston and NY need Portland a whole lot more to complete a deal than Portland needs them.

[Fitz303]

I wouldn't give up Harkless in any deal that brought back Anderson. That's just me, but I don't buy into Anderson in any way shape or form. He's one of the most one dimensional players in the league, and making 20 Million to do it. At least Crabbe shoots efficiently from more than one spot on the court. Anderson shoots 42% from the field. He was 45% from 2!! That's not good for anyone, especially a PF! Only Meyers, Napier, and Layman shot worse 2pt%. Then add that he can't rebound, can't defend.... There was a reason teams were telling Houston that they'd need to attach multiple 1st rd picks to dump him.

Per Zach Lowe:

Unloading Ryan Anderson to sign Paul outright would have helped Houston keep one of their outgoing guards, but the market for the three years and $60 million left on Anderson's deal was frigid. Not even the Kings wanted him for free. At least two teams would have demanded two Houston first-round picks in exchange for absorbing Anderson, according to several league sources.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19758988/zach-lowe-chris-paul-james-harden-running-houston-rockets-nba

I'll take him for Turner and Leonard, but otherwise, no thanks

[Soulyss]

I'm getting tired of people bashing CJ's defense. CJ is a good defender.

There is zero statistical evidence to back your opinion... I would say CJ does show EFFORT, but he's still a terrible defender.

[GreenRiddler]

I'm getting tired of people bashing CJ's defense. CJ is a good defender.

There is zero statistical evidence to back your opinion... I would say CJ does show EFFORT, but he's still a terrible defender.

There is zero statistical evidence Plumlee is a terrible defender, but our defense is much improved swapping him for Nurk. Defense on an individual level is not easy to track like offense. You gotta use your own two eyes.

Watch that Warriors series again, or any bigger guard he had to defend in the post, Wiggins, Barnes, Hood and how good he played on Klay and even Curry at times. People just throw him in with Dame who is terrible on D cause he is undersized at the 2 guard.

[GreenRiddler]

I think once the Hardaway Jr decision is made in 24 hours we'll see more traction on this, I think they are waiting to see how that goes before pivoting to Anthony.

[deanwoof]

I wouldn't give up Harkless in any deal that brought back Anderson. That's just me, but I don't buy into Anderson in any way shape or form. He's one of the most one dimensional players in the league, and making 20 Million to do it. At least Crabbe shoots efficiently from more than one spot on the court. Anderson shoots 42% from the field. He was 45% from 2!! That's not good for anyone, especially a PF! Only Meyers, Napier, and Layman shot worse 2pt%. Then add that he can't rebound, can't defend.... There was a reason teams were telling Houston that they'd need to attach multiple 1st rd picks to dump him.

Per Zach Lowe:

Unloading Ryan Anderson to sign Paul outright would have helped Houston keep one of their outgoing guards, but the market for the three years and $60 million left on Anderson's deal was frigid. Not even the Kings wanted him for free. At least two teams would have demanded two Houston first-round picks in exchange for absorbing Anderson, according to several league sources.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19758988/zach-lowe-chris-paul-james-harden-running-houston-rockets-nba

I'll take him for Turner and Leonard, but otherwise, no thanks

i disagree with this... you have to think about the rockets' offense, and to an extent how lamarcus was when he was here. a real stretch 4 playing on the perimeter isn't going to get a lot of rebounds. playing next to dwight howard he still averaged over 8 rebounds a game per 36.

unfortunately he hasn't been the same since the death of his wife. if he were the ryan anderson of orlando years, then yes, i would trade for him in a heartbeat. however, with what houston is probably asking for today in 2017, i'd have to think real hard on pulling that trigger.

[DaVoiceMaster]

If a trade is coming.... If Houston is the one wanting this to happen, what else can the Blazers get from them? Turner & Leonard to NY, Anderson and a 1st to Portland?

[Run PDX]

I think once the Hardaway Jr decision is made in 24 hours we'll see more traction on this, I think they are waiting to see how that goes before pivoting to Anthony.

I wonder if the Knicks have two scenarios involving Portland and Houston. One if they get Hardaway, and one if Hardaway's sheet is matched on Saturday...

I don't think that Melo had an unplanned - or unproductive - layover in Houston this week as he traveled from New York to Cabo. There are coincidences in the world, and then there are things that cannot go unplanned. I think that this falls into the second category.

[skoharry]

whether anderson starts or comes off the bench, he brings us some much needed experience, offense, & is a stretch 4 that actually is confident in taking shots that he is more than capable of making. plus stotts has already worked with a player like him in dirk[who is obviousley a step above anderson] and while i hate to see moe go, it rids us of meyers & free's up a roster spot incase we do use our only contract exception to sign some[which i would love to sign a veteran PG/SG/SF like rondo, rodriguez, d.williams, sessions, brooks, thabo, henderson, allen, stuckey, a.anderson, or miles]

[HoopsFanAZ]

Run PDX, your question/speculation is on the mark. With Atlanta saying (unofficially) that NY can have Hardaway Jr., then I agree Carmelo is the next domino. And any outgoing players from Portland (if involved in the 3-way trade) aren't likely to include Crabbe. More like Leonard and Harkless to the Knicks. If that's the case and Anderson becomes a Blazer ... okay.

[I do hope (almost expect) Crabbe to go elsewhere.]

[Run PDX]

It sounds like multiple Knicks have been told that they are being traded (according to the person who first posted the rumor on Twitter). This could be a bigger deal than we expect. Of course, the question remains: is Portland involved?