2017 Nets Offseason Thread III

[Netaman]

I think it's safe to say right now our 1, 2 and 5 are pretty much set with Lin, Russell and Mozgov. If Marks was willing to put Lin on the bench he wouldn't have tried to sell his top FA target (Reddick) on being 6th man.

For the 3 & 4 our top starting options are currently Carroll, RHJ, LeVert, Booker. And there are at least 3-4 names in FA we've been linked to, though none are a perfect fit (KCP, Green, Illyasova). None of those options is desperate, but are any of them fits for what Marks is looking to build long term (other than LeVert obviously, though long term he's probably more guard than forward)?

Put me in the category of thinking Marks has another big move or 2 up his sleeve, still have too many guards on the roster and I think someone like Kilpatrick is going to be on the move.

i think we could still see KCP... i hope we do. im not worried about too many gaurds since most are low level minimum guys.

I agree. If I had to predict the rest of the offseason I'd guess that Marks signs KCP to a deal very similar to THJ's 4/$71m and then trades Kilpatrick to a team with too many bigs. I'd guess a 2nd or 3rd year PF/C who has flashed but needs a change of scenery.

[Netaman]

I think I'm fully on the pass on KCP camp now. Id rather keep the room / flexibility for in season deals and next offseason.

we wouldnt really lose flexibility... if we signed KCP to say 4/72

In Season:

-15M in expiring contracts
-3 million in cap room

We could clear 18M in salary for someone.

next season:

if we let Booker, Acy, Harris, Kilpatrick walk thats 18M in cap room.
if lin opts out thats 30 million in cap room

thats assuming the cap stays where it is.

Nicholson will be pretty movable by next Summer also. 2 years 12m isn't going to scare anyone off if they have to take him back in a S&T.

[Prokorov]

I think I'm fully on the pass on KCP camp now. Id rather keep the room / flexibility for in season deals and next offseason.

we wouldnt really lose flexibility... if we signed KCP to say 4/72

In Season:

-15M in expiring contracts
-3 million in cap room

We could clear 18M in salary for someone.

next season:

if we let Booker, Acy, Harris, Kilpatrick walk thats 18M in cap room.
if lin opts out thats 30 million in cap room

thats assuming the cap stays where it is.

Nicholson will be pretty movable by next Summer also. 2 years 12m isn't going to scare anyone off if they have to take him back in a S&T.

our 2 second rounders + Nicholson for someone with 1 year 6M left on their deal would work for me

[TheBrooklynKidd]

I think I'm fully on the pass on KCP camp now. Id rather keep the room / flexibility for in season deals and next offseason.

we wouldnt really lose flexibility... if we signed KCP to say 4/72

In Season:

-15M in expiring contracts
-3 million in cap room

We could clear 18M in salary for someone.

next season:

if we let Booker, Acy, Harris, Kilpatrick walk thats 18M in cap room.
if lin opts out thats 30 million in cap room

thats assuming the cap stays where it is.

It's gonna be really tight unless we can convince Lin to opt out or trade him for expiring contracts before the deadline. Hopefully he'll come back and sign for the full MLE which isn't that far away from his current salary after we sign someone to a max in the offseason.

However if we have to choose between KCP or a chance at Randle/Parker/Gordon, I think we go for the RFAs.

[Kaiser30]

i think we could still see KCP... i hope we do. im not worried about too many gaurds since most are low level minimum guys.

I agree. If I had to predict the rest of the offseason I'd guess that Marks signs KCP to a deal very similar to THJ's 4/$71m and then trades Kilpatrick to a team with too many bigs. I'd guess a 2nd or 3rd year PF/C who has flashed but needs a change of scenery.

I agree. Every team around the league is eager to add wings who can shoot while bigs are increasingly easy to obtain on the trade market.

Get KCP and then look to build a more cohesive team through trades.

Kilpatrick has his flaws, but he can flat out score when coming off the bench. Some teams pay these kind of players MLE-level money, so I think it's not too optimistic to think that Kilpatrick on a minimum deal and upcoming Bird rights could fetch a second or a solid bench big.

[imanshar]

Rich Paul will drag the negotiation until he gets what he wants and I don't like that.

[Paradise]

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[NyCeEvO]

Hope we are still in on KCP. have plenty of cap to do it. 4/72 i think can get it done, 1M more then THJ got.

Russell, KCP, 2018 1st would but a huge offseason for sean marks.

if not id try and sign dwayne dedmon.

Agree with all of this.

On a related note, the Spurs are letting the market set Dedmon and Simmons' contracts. This isn't a disrespect to the players or a slap in the face as some suggested we were doing with KJ. It's a belief that the system can make the player and that they will always find players to do what's needed to be done.

I like Dedmon and Simmons. Both should receive "make good" contracts for 2 year deals unless a team believes either will have a CJ McCollum like explosion and thus can be snagged for more years on a cheaper deal now.

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[NyCeEvO]

Jarrett Allen isn't your typical late first rounder as he was projected to go in the lottery for the vast majority of the season and even ranked as high as 8th at one point. The only reason he dropped to 22 was because most teams already have their center of the future or are looking for combo/stretch bigs.

And nah Acy can be waived anytime before 7/16

Jarrett Allen is 2 years away from being a solid contributor. He's going to need that time just to put on more weight and increase his endurance and muscle stamina. This doesn't even address how raw he is offensively the NBA.

Tons of players are taken all over the 1st round including the lottery who are projects. There was no recently discovered injury concern with him, so there was no justifiable reason for him to drop. Other GMs clearly had him ranked lower on their draft boards than we did. Consequently, he fell to us.

I really like Jarrett's potential but right now it's still potential. He needs plenty of time to play and develop before any thing should be expected of him at the NBA level.

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I strongly disagree. He's much more polished than you think he is, great touch around the rim with jump hooks and reverse finishes and a decent mid range jumper. Hes great at using his length to finish over defenders and he's going to beat most defenders down the court in transition. Also he's fantastic at lob finishes as in catching and putting the ball in the Net without dunking it all in one motion. He's going to be able to contribute immediately on both ends of the floor.

And there is a reason. It's because of the abundance of teams with young centers already on their rosters and teams looking for 3 pt shooters.

I mean let's look at the starting centers for the teams after #12:
13. Gobert
14. Whiteside
15. Cauley Stein
16. KAT
17. Maker
18. Turner
19. Only team without a solid young center
20. Cauley Stein
21. Adams

The rumors before the draft were that one of the bigs was gonna drop because of the young centers in the league already, the fact that there were too many projected between 14-30 and everyone's obsession with outside shooting. Those are the reasons he dropped, I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up being the best defensive center to come out of the draft and have a impact on both sides from day one. Also last year we had LeVert, Whitehead and Ferrell ranked much higher on our boards than other teams. Hmm I wonder how that worked out?

We'll see how the season goes and revisit it later. I'd love to be wrong but I don't think we can not factor the faster pace of the game and better, stronger players/defenders.

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[Vae Victus]

I really dont see the team going after KCP unless they can get him on a bargain contract. I also feel getting him will derail DLo's and Levert's development, cuz he's gonna demand alot of touches as im sure he feels he'll be "the man" of this squad and want to put up up stats for his next deal. I saw first hand what "up and coming" players who want shots and shine do to a team (the LAL, Clarkson, Randle, Lou Will), it was UGLY and it really screwed over the development of younger players and got alot of people playing the wrong and selfish way.

I'm just not seeing as much upside with KCP unless its a short term deal. In which case the next 2 years are likely punts anyway, so KCP on a short 2 year deal wont affect long term planning much and could be moved for value next year if so desired.

[NyCeEvO]

Here's a good question:

Are there any ACTUAL Nets fans that would rather see Lin start instead of DLo/KCP/LeVert on the perimeter?

It seems to me that the only people arguing for Lin to start won't be commenting on the Nets board once Lin gets traded to another team.

I have flabbergasted by these long winded arguments over why DAR or Lin MUST start.

In its current state, this team is bottom 6 in the league talent wise.

Lin was injured for the majority of the season. Russell and Levert still have have a lot to prove until their potential is actualized. Whitehead has shown flashes of being a good 6th man but is still a net negative. Because RHJ can't shoot and isn't that good of a ball handler yet (maybe...ever?), we have to stick him at PF.

I could not care less who starts.

Each player has something to improve upon and will get a lot of minutes to showcase their talent. If somebody isn't playing well despite given any chances, they need to be benched period.

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this last part i disagree with. we saw last year kenny stick with guys who were struggling and it seemed to pay off. letting young guys play through bad stretches can be more beneficial then sitting them. like you said, this is a bottom 5 team... we shouldnt be motivated to sit guys due to struggles

That's why I said being sat after a number of failures.

For a while, I've been of the belief that there are a lot of players outside the league who would be solid NBA players if they were given more time to develop.

With that said, I don't think playing 30-35min a game is the only way to develop players. The Spurs and others take the approach of giving young players a longer leash as time goes on. While we're not worried about playoff positioning like the Spurs, I don't think 25 min vs 30min of PT is going to make any difference. Even in 20 min of playing time, young players will make plenty of mistakes for them to review in video sessions.

Improvement occurs off the court. In game situations make you aware of the things you need to practice and improve upon. Look at CMC...no one is sweating that we moved him despite not giving him much playing time.

While we are committed to development, I don't think we're necessarily locked in to an exact duplicate of last year. In order to become a playoff team and then hopefully a contender, you eventually need to field a team of players who are good enough to attract other players. Not every player you draft will be a hit. Giving everyone more a few more minutes isn't necessarily a key to unlocking untapped potential.

EDIT: I just realized that I had "any" failures instead of "many" failures. That completely changed the context. My bad Prok...I was on mobile!

[NyCeEvO]

I think I'm fully on the pass on KCP camp now. Id rather keep the room / flexibility for in season deals and next offseason.

we wouldnt really lose flexibility... if we signed KCP to say 4/72

In Season:

-15M in expiring contracts
-3 million in cap room

We could clear 18M in salary for someone.

next season:

if we let Booker, Acy, Harris, Kilpatrick walk thats 18M in cap room.
if lin opts out thats 30 million in cap room

thats assuming the cap stays where it is.

Bingo.

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[NyCeEvO]

Rich Paul will drag the negotiation until he gets what he wants and I don't like that.

As Pop says, we want players that are over themselves.

If you're going to let a couple million stop from you from going to a team where the coach is going to make you better so that you'll warrant a better contract in the future, you can go some place else.

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[Prokorov]

Yea i dont see allen making a big impact this year. he needs to get his confidence up, learn to play with high motor.

[NyCeEvO]

I really dont see the team going after KCP unless they can get him on a bargain contract. I also feel getting him will derail DLo's and Levert's development, cuz he's gonna demand alot of touches as im sure he feels he'll be "the man" of this squad and want to put up up stats for his next deal. I saw first hand what "up and coming" players who want shots and shine do to a team (the LAL, Clarkson, Randle, Lou Will), it was UGLY and it really screwed over the development of younger players and got alot of people playing the wrong and selfish way.

I'm just not seeing as much upside with KCP unless its a short term deal. In which case the next 2 years are likely punts anyway, so KCP on a short 2 year deal wont affect long term planning much and could be moved for value next year if so desired.

This isn't L.A. The Nets don't want you if you have an ego. No single player is bigger than the collective unit. If you want to play to the detriment of the team, go play somewhere else.

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[MrDollarBills]

I really dont see the team going after KCP unless they can get him on a bargain contract. I also feel getting him will derail DLo's and Levert's development, cuz he's gonna demand alot of touches as im sure he feels he'll be "the man" of this squad and want to put up up stats for his next deal. I saw first hand what "up and coming" players who want shots and shine do to a team (the LAL, Clarkson, Randle, Lou Will), it was UGLY and it really screwed over the development of younger players and got alot of people playing the wrong and selfish way.

I'm just not seeing as much upside with KCP unless its a short term deal. In which case the next 2 years are likely punts anyway, so KCP on a short 2 year deal wont affect long term planning much and could be moved for value next year if so desired.

How will KCP derail Russel's development? they'll be starting in the backcourt together.

[Crunky]

We should offer Javale McGee a contract he could play 20minutes off the bench.

[Vae Victus]

KCP with Rich Paul in his ear will feel "slighted" he didnt get a max deal. Prolly come to the conclusion that he didnt put up enough stats, thus will proceed to chuck.

This was a guy who felt "insulted" by a 5 year 80 mil extension offer. He's likely gonna get shorter years around the same or less per annum. It's not a good indicator for the future attitude wise imo.

Also DLo shared the backcourt with Clarkson and Lou Will alot... results were not pretty. DLo was actually alot better playing with the dude he "betrayed" in Nick Young, cuz he's a real shooter unlike the aforementioned chuckers.

[Paradise]

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[Prokorov]

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Seems likely...Toronto just traded for Miles

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