Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1

Liver_Pooty · Post #1361 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:16 pm

Walker and Lamb for Irving.

Electric_Monk · Post #1362 » by **Electric_Monk** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:32 am

I wouldn't trade anything for Irving. He has no loyalty at all. Who's to say he wouldn't just leave when his contract is up. Kemba is super loyal and a good guy on a very reasonable contract. Why mess that up?

Kembastockton · Post #1363 » by **Kembastockton** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:46 pm

Liver_Pooty wrote:Walker and Lamb for Irving.

I seriously doubt that gets it done. Do keep in mind that Kyrie is easily a top ten point guard. Most teams are likely putting in a bid. I think something centered around Kemba and a pick would be hard for teams to top.

Electric_Monk wrote:I wouldn't trade anything for Irving. He has no loyalty at all. Who's to say he wouldn't just leave when his contract is up. Kemba is super loyal and a good guy on a very reasonable contract. Why mess that up?

That's mighty judgemental. Do keep in mind that Kyrie had to carry the Cavs when Lebron took his talents elsewhere. Knowing that Lebron is going to leave next year why should he not look to maximize his career somewhere else also? No loyalty would have been had he demanded a trade while Lebron was in Miami.

Kemba is also an undersized point guard who has had two knee surgeries. Why would we not pursue a better, younger, and bigger version? Loyalty is great, but the nba is a buisness that is about putting the best product out for it's customers. Kyrie's contract is not up for two years. A lot can happen in that time. He may leave, but so could Kemba. There is nothing to stop either of the at the end of their contract. However just like with Kemba the knowledge that their current team can offer the most money has to factor.

If Kemba and Nick make for an exciting backcourt, Kyrie and Nic could only be better.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #1364 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:46 pm

MountBiyombo wrote:Kemba is also an undersized point guard who has had two knee surgeries. Why would we not pursue a better, younger, and bigger version?

Because Kyrie isn't better. Kyrie's size does matter and younger is a thing, but statistically Kemba is just as good or significantly better in many areas. Kyrie has a much better reputation and is a more well known name, but I would argue that this is due mostly to more exposure.

Basically in trading Kyrie for Kemba you are swapping a more PnR focused guard for one who is better at iso scoring. You trade Kemba's knee issues for someone who is likely to feel less loyalty for this franchise.

Personally I would rather keep Kemba. OTOH, Love would be a great fit for the team as currently constructed.

Kembastockton · Post #1365 » by **Kembastockton** » Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:12 pm

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:
MountBiyombo wrote:Kemba is also an undersized point guard who has had two knee surgeries. Why would we not pursue a better, younger, and bigger version?

Because Kyrie isn't better. Kyrie's size does matter and younger is a thing, but statistically Kemba is just as good or significantly better in many areas. Kyrie has a much better reputation and is a more well known name, but I would argue that this is due mostly to more exposure.

Basically in trading Kyrie for Kemba you are swapping a more PnR focused guard for one who is better at iso scoring. You trade Kemba's knee issues for someone who is likely to feel less loyalty for this franchise.

Personally I would rather keep Kemba. OTOH, Love would be a great fit for the team as currently constructed.

They are both great point guards. Kemba is the better defender slighty. Neither one is Gary Payton. Kyrie is a much more dynamic scorer. His presence would lighten the pressure on Nick to be more than he is. No slight to Kemba, but Kyrie is a superstar, and superstars put fannies in the seats. I would not be opposed to Kevin Love either, but he hasn't asked to be traded.

SeanBobcats · Post #1366 » by **SeanBobcats** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:30 am

When analyzing Kemba and Kyrie, I actually think Kyrie fits better on Charlotte while Kemba actually fits better beside Lebron. I've always thought Kyrie would fit best on a defensive oriented team as a 30 ppg scorer and a leaned on closer, similar to Kobe in his championship years. He could take that role with Charlotte, as I think our system is built to compliment pretty much any high scoring PG. Steph and Kyrie are the two players in the league that best fit that mold.

Kemba seems to do well when he's not necessarily the primary ball handler but can still get his ball handling opportunities. Kyrie was forced to become a better spot up player beside Lebron, but that was never really his strong point. Kemba on the other hand seems to get his best out of more spot up opportunities.

I'd say if the opportunity is there to move Kemba and just a few more assets (maybe Lamb and our first this year) for Kyrie, it's worth taking a shot at. I feel like most GM's don't have the balls to make a power move like this, but I don't see any reason we shouldn't go for it. Not like we have any real shot of doing anything the way the current team is built.

SeanBobcats · Post #1367 » by **SeanBobcats** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:35 am

CHA-CLE-NY-POR

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yad8ylfr

Send a 2017 first from Charlotte to NY, and a 2017 top 18 protected first from Portland that turns into 2 seconds if the pick stays with POR

-NY clears a bunch of cap and gets picks.

-With Portland you see a team that is kinda stuck on going all in right now because of the contracts they've already given, so why not go all in and add Kevin Love to arguably the second best backcourt duo in the league.

-Charlotte gets the true number 1 option they need

Cleveland's haul is where this gets interesting to me. In my opinion this deal gives Cleveland a better chance at beating Golden State than they had this year. They move on from Kyrie and Love to get Kemba and Melo, but they also move on from two guys that are just too old and not productive enough to be throwing out there against a fast paced Golden State team. Where Cleveland really would hit a home run is with the three role players they'd get out of this deal. Courtney Lee, Aminu, and Ed Davis can all give the Cavs pretty nice minutes as complimentary pieces

316Hornets · Post #1368 » by **316Hornets** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:30 pm

You can't compare Kyrie and Kemba without also including the price of the contract. Kemba is 12 mil a year for the next 2 while Kyrie is ~20 mil a year for the next 2 with player option year 3. Kyrie's contract carries a lot more risk and you'd have to sacrifice some depth to make it work. Only way I'm considering this trade is if Kyrie is the guy that could carry Charlotte into the upper echelon of the NBA, and I just don't think that is the case. Charlotte's problem has not been pg for awhile. Just because a star player is available doesn't mean we have to try to get them for a marginal improvement, if that.

I'd be much more convinced to take on Kevin Love where there is some noticeable weakness with Marvin's impact last year. Upgrading to Kyrie with the more pricier, riskier contract just doesn't seem worth it. Also, who does the team have a better chance of resigning in 2019-20? Yet, I know Jordan is a gambler so this may be just the type of trade he'd make.

SeanBobcats · Post #1369 » by **SeanBobcats** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:10 pm

It is most definitely a risk, I can agree about that. Maybe it's just what I want to see as a fan, but I still believe that the risk is worth taking. If I'm in the front office, I'd get in contact with Kyrie's agent and see what he thinks of being the number 1 guy here if we can consistently be top 3 or 4 in the east for the next few years

Braggins · Post #1370 » by **Braggins** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:51 pm

316Hornets wrote:I'd be much more convinced to take on Kevin Love where there is some noticeable weakness with Marvin's impact last year.

I consider Love also overrated, but I actually think he is a better overall player than Kyrie and he would actually be a very clear big upgrade for us, so I would totally get on board with trading for Love if the price isn't super steep. I also think his play style and skill set would actually fit great here and his personality would fit our culture better than Kyries. Love has been very professional in Cleveland despite constantly being criticized and being on the hot seat and he has shown a willingness to sacrifice for the good of the team. I'd actually be super curious to see what he could do here as a focal point in Cliffords system. I think he and Kemba could be a deadly combo.

dmutombo321 · Post #1371 » by **dmutombo321** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:54 pm

I love Kemba Walker. He's a high character guy, leader of the team, fearless and has improved his outside game tremendously.

That having been said, if he and lamb and a future 1st can be parlayed into Kyrie Irving, a player who is two years younger, with two fewer knee surgeries to his name (i.e. none) and one of the most prolific scorers in the game, Cho/Jordan should do it without hesitation. Throwing in lamb will make it close to a salary wash for the next couple years, and once Kemba is up for a new deal, he's going to be looking for the same type of money as Irving.

Irving has some holes in his game defensively but honestly I think it stems from expending all his energy on offense rather than any physical limitations since he has elite size and athleticism for the position. And he's such a skilled ball handler, I think he's a better playmaker than he gets credit for and is certainly no worse a creator than Kemba.

Since Cleveland is in win-now mode, and more interested in already established players moreso than picks, its going to be tough for them to get fair value for Irving. Charlotte should survey the landscape to see if they can leverage that fact.

dmutombo321 · Post #1372 » by **dmutombo321** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:56 pm

For the record, I'd be fine with keeping Kemba and pursuing a Love trade too, so long as the price isnt too steep.
I think Irving's trade demand signals that they're more likely to keep Love now though.

Mystical Apples · Post #1373 » by **Mystical Apples** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:20 pm

Remove Lebron and Cleveland's pace is ~ 35 wins with Kyrie on the court.....over *6 years* which is alarming in the DeRozan kinda way.

Mystical Apples · Post #1374 » by **Mystical Apples** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:29 pm

Kyrie since his rookie year and sans Lebron the last 3 seasons. Keep in mind these are "On" and not "On/Off" subject to LBJ comparisons. TBH I wouldn't trade much for him, let alone Kemba + additional stuff (no wowy 2015 PO data).

Regular
2011-12: -5.6
2012-13: -5.1
2013-14: -5.1
2014-15: -.7
2015-16: +1.6
2016-17: -6.6

Playoffs
2016: -13.3
2017: -21.6

Kembastockton · Post #1375 » by **Kembastockton** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:00 am

Mystical Apples wrote:Remove Lebron and Cleveland's pace is ~ 35 wins with Kyrie on the court.....over *6 years* which is alarming in the DeRozan kinda way.

Who was it again that was the star of the second worst team in NBA history?

Rich4114 · Post #1376 » by **Rich4114** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:04 am

I feel like Kyrie is a little over valued right now. He is one of the best scorers at his position in the league, but Kemba is right behind him. Kemba also never had near the supporting cast that Kyrie has. What would Kemba look like next to Lebron, Love and a host of 3pt shooters? We would have to give up more than just Kemba and Lamb, and our improvement may be marginal when it's all said and done. Plus, Kemba is the face of this franchise and he wants to be here. I get that we need to improve the team by any means, but this doesn't necessarily increase our wins it just gives us a bigger national name. I would rather see us try to improve at other positions via trade than give up a ton of asssets for the chance to maybe slightly improve at PG.

Mystical Apples · Post #1377 » by **Mystical Apples** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:24 am

Kembastockton wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:Remove Lebron and Cleveland's pace is ~ 35 wins with Kyrie on the court.....over *6 years* which is alarming in the DeRozan kinda way.

Who was it again that was the star of the second worst team in NBA history?

I assume there's a point so I suggest you make it.

Braggins · Post #1378 » by **Braggins** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:45 am

I've been dying for Mystical Apples to get in on this topic.

Kembastockton · Post #1379 » by **Kembastockton** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:44 am

Mystical Apples wrote:
Kembastockton wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:Remove Lebron and Cleveland's pace is ~ 35 wins with Kyrie on the court.....over *6 years* which is alarming in the DeRozan kinda way.

Who was it again that was the star of the second worst team in NBA history?

I assume there's a point so I suggest you make it.

Only transcendent talents can carry a team when they are the only star.

Post #1380 » by **Diop** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:20 pm

Kembastockton wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:
Kembastockton wrote:
Who was it again that was the star of the second worst team in NBA history?

I assume there's a point so I suggest you make it.

Only transcendent talents can carry a team when they are the only star.

Kevin Love and co are a bit better than that Bobcats team