VOTE: Would you trade Wiggins + filler for Kyrie?

[Calinks]

Agreed. Towns and Wiggins are very tight (Wiggs recently called him his best friend in the NBA) I really doubt he went to Thibs and said "trade Drew for Kyrie, whatever it takes".

maybe but I really don't know who they thought they could deal to get it done...

I'm not sure why you would assume they thought about that part at all. My initial thought was Teague + before I remembered he can't be traded.
I wouldn't have even considered trading Wiggins an option until I saw it here.

For me it was an obvious ask if not Towns or Butler themselves. I just wouldn't fathom a trade for someone like Kyrie in his situation without a big asset coming back. Maybe I just look at the situation more critically at first glance. I didn't think you wouldn't consider that you have to give something big up to land Kyrie and I already see our team as pretty depleted when it comes to trade resources barring the big names.

[shrink]

I'm guessing that you're being sarcastic here. I tend to believe what my eyes show me more than advanced stats personally.

He has shown the ability to hit from the outside. He's getting stronger but outside of getting more shot attempts it's not helped his team. Of Towns, LaVine, Rubio and Wiggins, the Wolves +/- per 100 possessions was the worst by far with Wiggins on the court. Since there's a good amount of data for each you'd think that would average out the quality they went against pretty evenly between those players.

If Wiggins was a big I'd get it with development, it's more important for bigs to be stronger for their positions, but at a wing/guard position you should be developing to your potential after 5000 minutes, let alone 8000-9000 he had near the end of the season.

Post all-star game Wiggins minutes stayed the same, his shot attempts and points went up but his TS%, rebounding, assists(dipped under 2) all dropped and for the team his +/- per 100 possessions went from -8 before the all-star break with Wiggins on the court to -14 per 100 possessions. To put that in perspective on before/after the all-star break... Towns pts went up, TS% went WAY UP, rebs went up, asts did go down and the big one... +/- per 100 possessions, before the all-star break was +7, after the break +15. So Wiggins made his team way worse after the break when on the court and Towns made the same team way better when on the court. You can see progression with Towns, I'm not seeing it with Wiggins.

I appreciate the research and +1'd your post. However, I tend to believe that Thibs overwhelmed Wiggins in the first half of the season with more responsibilities and minutes than he was ready for. In the second half, it looked to me like he was just worn down, and he did finish the season playing more minutes than any other player in the NBA.

Maybe I'm just making excuses, but I will be curious what type of player we see in Wiggins this year. Jimmy Butler will be having the ball in his hands more, and be guarding the tougher opposing swingman. I hope this gives Wiggins the opportunity to improve his game, but we will see.

[AirP.]

I appreciate the research and +1'd your post. However, I tend to believe that Thibs overwhelmed Wiggins in the first half of the season with more responsibilities and minutes than he was ready for. In the second half, it looked to me like he was just worn down, and he did finish the season playing more minutes than any other player in the NBA.

Maybe I'm just making excuses, but I will be curious what type of player we see in Wiggins this year. Jimmy Butler will be having the ball in his hands more, and be guarding the tougher opposing swingman. I hope this gives Wiggins the opportunity to improve his game, but we will see.

My whole thing is the situation, without Butler no way you move Wiggins in a package for Irving but having a better version of him already on the team and of course, Wiggins will get at or near the max, think there's better ways to spend that money with Towns and Butler already on the roster.

[Loyal[]Wolf]

I think if the Cavaliers would accept any offer other than Wiggins, it would be Teague + Patton + 1st don't you think? But, the Suns may have a better offer. Sources: Suns and Timberwolves are front runners according to ESPN2.

[Varejao17]

I'm not good with salaries or whatever, but I'd do something with Wiggins + Dieng + fillers = Ky + Love + fillers if needed...

[Ethomasp31]

I'm not good with salaries or whatever, but I'd do something with Wiggins + Dieng + fillers = Ky + Love + fillers if needed...

I'm not sure I want Love back and we don't have the salaries to give back to Cleveland for Love and Kyrie without giving up Butler. Love and Kyrie make over $41 million next season....Wiggins $7.5....Dieng $14.1....Cole $7.3....BJ $4....Patton $2.2....and Tyus $1.4 is less than $37 million. Maybe we could because we are within $5 million, but the Cavs would never want to do that.


We could take back TT $16.4 or Shumpert $10.3 to help them out a bit.

[Varejao17]

Yes, guess you're right... Love isn't the defensive PF I want beside KAT anyway.

[wolfen]

Didn't read all of the posts but I'll add this... For some reason it's more "fun" or "gratifying" to have your team get better by having the players you DRAFTED on the team rather than guys you ACQUIRE. I am guilty of this for sure. I'd rather see us dominate the NBA with Wiggins on the squad vs. Kyrie. BUT the odds, IMO, are much of better of said domination with Kyrie on the squad, and I care about winning first and foremost.

[Varejao17]

And we didn't draft Wiggins anyway...

[wolfen]

And we didn't draft Wiggins anyway...

Technicality IMO. He started his first year here...

[KGdaBom]

I think if the Cavaliers would accept any offer other than Wiggins, it would be Teague + Patton + 1st don't you think? But, the Suns may have a better offer. Sources: Suns and Timberwolves are front runners according to ESPN2.

we can't trade Teague.

[andyhop]

No for me.

Kyrie isn't anywhere near to being good enough for me to give up on Wiggins now

Huh, it's almost like you're saying a guy who had 38 and 40 points games in the most recent finals isn't all that good.

If you want scoring without impact then Irving is a great player , Give me impact over scoring anyday.

[AirP.]

No for me.

Kyrie isn't anywhere near to being good enough for me to give up on Wiggins now

Huh, it's almost like you're saying a guy who had 38 and 40 points games in the most recent finals isn't all that good.

If you want scoring without impact then Irving is a great player , Give me impact over scoring anyday.

THATS ALL WIGGINS HAS DONE HIS 3 YEARS IN THE LEAGUE!!!! The difference is, Irving is more efficient and has done it at the highest level PLUS he's a good outside shooter to create space!

I'll leave this in this thread too.

On Wiggins....

He has been a high-volume scorer during his first three years in the league, but has yet to register a true shooting percentage at or above the league average in his career. He's done precious little creating for others and has considerably below-average rebounding numbers for a player his size. There were 63 players 6-foot-8 or shorter that used at least 20 percent of the team's possessions last season—Wiggins ranked 50th in assist rate. And out of the 111 players that stood between 6-foot-6 and 6-foot-9 and qualified for the minutes per game leaderboard, Wiggins ranked 83rd in rebound rate.

With his long arms, elite athleticism, and rangy quickness, it's no surprise that Wiggins also carries a reputation as an impact defender, but nearly every statistical measure paints him as a negative defensive player. He's been rated negatively by Basketball-Reference's Defensive BPM, FiveThirtyEight's Defensive Plus-Minus, and ESPN's Defensive RPM during each of his three NBA seasons, and ranked 92nd out of 94 shooting guards in ESPN's stat last season. (Wiggins played mostly small forward last year but the wing positions are largely interchangeable in today's NBA and his -3.16 Defensive RPM still would have ranked 70th out of 72 at the three.)

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/qvpqm7/its-time-for-andrew-wiggins-to-step-it-up-if-the-wolves-want-to-win

[andyhop]

Huh, it's almost like you're saying a guy who had 38 and 40 points games in the most recent finals isn't all that good.

If you want scoring without impact then Irving is a great player , Give me impact over scoring anyday.

THATS ALL WIGGINS HAS DONE HIS 3 YEARS IN THE LEAGUE!!!! The difference is, Irving is more efficient and has done it at the highest level PLUS he's a good outside shooter to create space!

I agree that Wiggins is in that boat as well, I am just going to go with the guy who has a chance to get to where he is a really impactful guy over someone who is never going to get there.

[AirP.]

If you want scoring without impact then Irving is a great player , Give me impact over scoring anyday.

THATS ALL WIGGINS HAS DONE HIS 3 YEARS IN THE LEAGUE!!!! The difference is, Irving is more efficient and has done it at the highest level PLUS he's a good outside shooter to create space!

I agree that Wiggins is in that boat as well, I am just going to go with the guy who has a chance to get to where he is a really impactful guy over someone who is never going to get there.

No... Wiggins is actually below the average in efficiency for the NBA. He just shoots a high volume of shots.

[andyhop]

THATS ALL WIGGINS HAS DONE HIS 3 YEARS IN THE LEAGUE!!!! The difference is, Irving is more efficient and has done it at the highest level PLUS he's a good outside shooter to create space!

I agree that Wiggins is in that boat as well, I am just going to go with the guy who has a chance to get to where he is a really impactful guy over someone who is never going to get there.

No... Wiggins is actually below the average in efficiency for the NBA. He just shoots a high volume of shots.

I meant it in the sense that Wiggins like Irving is all scoring and has no impact in other ways

[AirP.]

I agree that Wiggins is in that boat as well, I am just going to go with the guy who has a chance to get to where he is a really impactful guy over someone who is never going to get there.

No... Wiggins is actually below the average in efficiency for the NBA. He just shoots a high volume of shots.

I meant it in the sense that Wiggins like Irving is all scoring and has no impact in other ways

Except Irving has shown to be able to score at the hardest of times in the biggest of games. There's not been many that could do that, Irving right now is 28th of ALL TIME for playoff scoring average. I'm going to go out on a limb and say I doubt Wiggins gets close to that. Toss in the fact that Irving has done that making the finals every year of his playoffs(meaning increasing difficulty each round).

[andyhop]

No... Wiggins is actually below the average in efficiency for the NBA. He just shoots a high volume of shots.

I meant it in the sense that Wiggins like Irving is all scoring and has no impact in other ways

Except Irving has shown to be able to score at the hardest of times in the biggest of games. There's not been many that could do that, Irving right now is 28th of ALL TIME for playoff scoring average. I'm going to go out on a limb and say I doubt Wiggins gets close to that. Toss in the fact that Irving has done that making the finals every year of his playoffs(meaning increasing difficulty each round).

Its nice that LeBron has been able to carry him that far.

[Klomp]

I think if the Cavaliers would accept any offer other than Wiggins, it would be Teague + Patton + 1st don't you think? But, the Suns may have a better offer. Sources: Suns and Timberwolves are front runners according to ESPN2.

we can't trade Teague.

They can less than two months into the season. It isn't a no-trade restriction for the entirety of the contract.

[urinesane]

No... Wiggins is actually below the average in efficiency for the NBA. He just shoots a high volume of shots.

I meant it in the sense that Wiggins like Irving is all scoring and has no impact in other ways

Except Irving has shown to be able to score at the hardest of times in the biggest of games. There's not been many that could do that, Irving right now is 28th of ALL TIME for playoff scoring average. I'm going to go out on a limb and say I doubt Wiggins gets close to that. Toss in the fact that Irving has done that making the finals every year of his playoffs(meaning increasing difficulty each round).

Which of these things was true before the best player in the league came back to Cleveland?

Not that Wiggins doesn't have plenty to improve, but really... just gonna gloss over that massive bit of context?

No excuse for Wiggins now though, he needs to step up his game. I think he will.