VOTE: Would you trade Wiggins + filler for Kyrie?

[Crazy-Canuck]

Surprising stat on Reddit on how these 2 impact teammates.

Everyone's ts% increased with Wiggins on the floor except Rubio.

Everyone's ts% drops except for jr smith and korver when Irving is on the floor with them.

[KGdaBom]

Surprising stat on Reddit on how these 2 impact teammates.

Everyone's ts% increased with Wiggins on the floor except Rubio.

Everyone's ts% drops except for jr smith and korver when Irving is on the floor with them.

That makes sense to me.

[andyhop]

The Wolves with Rubio on the court and KAT off were a better team than the Cavs with Irving on the court and LeBron off last season

[Crazy-Canuck]

With Gilbert continuing to talk about the weak return for PG, I'm thinking that the Cavs aren't looking for adequate compensation, they are looking for a clear overpayment.

[Worm Guts]

With Gilbert continuing to talk about the weak return for PG, I'm thinking that the Cavs aren't looking for adequate compensation, they are looking for a clear overpayment.

That's what you expect him to say. I don't know how much it necessarily means.

The Cavs situation is kind of different than in most star trades though, so I think they could keep Irving if they wanted to.

[jbk1234]

With Gilbert continuing to talk about the weak return for PG, I'm thinking that the Cavs aren't looking for adequate compensation, they are looking for a clear overpayment.

He's throwing shade at the Pacers. Cavs/Pacers/Denver had a trade verbally agreed to that would've sent Love to Denver, No. 13 & Harris to Pacers, and PG to the Cavs. Pacers backed out and did the deal with OKC.

[AirP.]

I meant it in the sense that Wiggins like Irving is all scoring and has no impact in other ways

Except Irving has shown to be able to score at the hardest of times in the biggest of games. There's not been many that could do that, Irving right now is 28th of ALL TIME for playoff scoring average. I'm going to go out on a limb and say I doubt Wiggins gets close to that. Toss in the fact that Irving has done that making the finals every year of his playoffs(meaning increasing difficulty each round).

Its nice that LeBron has been able to carry him that far.

Sure, the thing is without LeBron he'd probably score even more, he just wouldn't of gotten as far in the playoffs.

Right now Wiggins still has that potential tag on him so he's still valuable. If he's about what he's going to be, a volume scorer that's athletic and doesn't play much defense, rebound, playmake... that at a max contract could be what stops Minnesota from being a true contender. This trade that Minnesota does/doesn't make for Kyrie could be the biggest reason why don't become a truely elite team although Towns and Butler should be enough to get them close(Wiggins isn't in either of their class and might never be, Irving is).

[Avihs7]

Except Irving has shown to be able to score at the hardest of times in the biggest of games. There's not been many that could do that, Irving right now is 28th of ALL TIME for playoff scoring average. I'm going to go out on a limb and say I doubt Wiggins gets close to that. Toss in the fact that Irving has done that making the finals every year of his playoffs(meaning increasing difficulty each round).

Its nice that LeBron has been able to carry him that far.

Sure, the thing is without LeBron he'd probably score even more, he just wouldn't of gotten as far in the playoffs.

Right now Wiggins still has that potential tag on him so he's still valuable. If he's about what he's going to be, a volume scorer that's athletic and doesn't play much defense, rebound, playmake... that at a max contract could be what stops Minnesota from being a true contender. This trade that Minnesota does/doesn't make for Kyrie could be the biggest reason why don't become a truely elite team although Towns and Butler should be enough to get them close(Wiggins isn't in either of their class and might never be, Irving is).

If he's about what he's gonna be huh
Wiggens is 22, no room for improvement right

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

With Gilbert continuing to talk about the weak return for PG, I'm thinking that the Cavs aren't looking for adequate compensation, they are looking for a clear overpayment.

He's throwing shade at the Pacers. Cavs/Pacers/Denver had a trade verbally agreed to that would've sent Love to Denver, No. 13 & Harris to Pacers, and PG to the Cavs. Pacers backed out and did the deal with OKC.

Lolol if it's true. Wow.

[Oriole8159]

Its nice that LeBron has been able to carry him that far.

Sure, the thing is without LeBron he'd probably score even more, he just wouldn't of gotten as far in the playoffs.

Right now Wiggins still has that potential tag on him so he's still valuable. If he's about what he's going to be, a volume scorer that's athletic and doesn't play much defense, rebound, playmake... that at a max contract could be what stops Minnesota from being a true contender. This trade that Minnesota does/doesn't make for Kyrie could be the biggest reason why don't become a truely elite team although Towns and Butler should be enough to get them close(Wiggins isn't in either of their class and might never be, Irving is).

If he's about what he's gonna be huh
Wiggens is 22, no room for improvement right

it's not so much whether he can or can't improve, but whether it's worth gambling 5 years $150 million on whether he can hit his peak. considering we already have 2 max worthy players on the roster in Towns and Butler, keeping cap flexibility and finding the right specific compliments are paramount; so gambling on the wrong #3 and guessing wrong can really hurt the future of the roster.

not saying I necessarily want him to be traded, but that it's far more complicated than just whether or not he has room for improvement.

[Oriole8159]

With Gilbert continuing to talk about the weak return for PG, I'm thinking that the Cavs aren't looking for adequate compensation, they are looking for a clear overpayment.

He's throwing shade at the Pacers. Cavs/Pacers/Denver had a trade verbally agreed to that would've sent Love to Denver, No. 13 & Harris to Pacers, and PG to the Cavs. Pacers backed out and did the deal with OKC.

Lolol if it's true. Wow.

must have been before the draft then since Den traded out of the #13 spot.

[jbk1234]

He's throwing shade at the Pacers. Cavs/Pacers/Denver had a trade verbally agreed to that would've sent Love to Denver, No. 13 & Harris to Pacers, and PG to the Cavs. Pacers backed out and did the deal with OKC.

Lolol if it's true. Wow.

must have been before the draft then since Den traded out of the #13 spot.

Happened after the draft too. Pacers pulled out twice. After the draft, both Denver & the Cavs thought they had a deal. It will be a long time before the Cavs & Pacers trade with one another.

[Avihs7]

Sure, the thing is without LeBron he'd probably score even more, he just wouldn't of gotten as far in the playoffs.

Right now Wiggins still has that potential tag on him so he's still valuable. If he's about what he's going to be, a volume scorer that's athletic and doesn't play much defense, rebound, playmake... that at a max contract could be what stops Minnesota from being a true contender. This trade that Minnesota does/doesn't make for Kyrie could be the biggest reason why don't become a truely elite team although Towns and Butler should be enough to get them close(Wiggins isn't in either of their class and might never be, Irving is).

If he's about what he's gonna be huh
Wiggens is 22, no room for improvement right

it's not so much whether he can or can't improve, but whether it's worth gambling 5 years $150 million on whether he can hit his peak. considering we already have 2 max worthy players on the roster in Towns and Butler, keeping cap flexibility and finding the right specific compliments are paramount; so gambling on the wrong #3 and guessing wrong can really hurt the future of the roster.

not saying I necessarily want him to be traded, but that it's far more complicated than just whether or not he has room for improvement.

I'd rather have wiggens at 30 million then Kyrie at 40 mil plus in 2 years. By trading for Kyrie your gambling alot more then keeping wiggens for 5 yrs at 30 mil
Kyries agent Is gonna look at what Curry got and what Wall got and demand something similiar

[Oriole8159]

Lolol if it's true. Wow.

must have been before the draft then since Den traded out of the #13 spot.

Happened after the draft too. Pacers pulled out twice. After the draft, both Denver & the Cavs thought they had a deal. It will be a long time before the Cavs & Pacers trade with one another.

so would have just been a modified version if after the draft.
seems to have worked out better for Den at least in my opinion considering they were able to still get Millsap; though I still hate the draft night trade with Utah.

[jbk1234]

must have been before the draft then since Den traded out of the #13 spot.

Happened after the draft too. Pacers pulled out twice. After the draft, both Denver & the Cavs thought they had a deal. It will be a long time before the Cavs & Pacers trade with one another.

so would have just been a modified version if after the draft.
seems to have worked out better for Den at least in my opinion considering they were able to still get Millsap; though I still hate the draft night trade with Utah.

If you want to know how angry the Cavs F.O./Gilbert is right now, Griffin put a Kyrie deal in place for No. 4 & Bledsoe where the Pacers would get No. 4 & the Cavs would get PG & Bledsoe. Gilbert said no because he didn't want to trade Kyrie.

[KGdaBom]

If he's about what he's gonna be huh
Wiggens is 22, no room for improvement right

it's not so much whether he can or can't improve, but whether it's worth gambling 5 years $150 million on whether he can hit his peak. considering we already have 2 max worthy players on the roster in Towns and Butler, keeping cap flexibility and finding the right specific compliments are paramount; so gambling on the wrong #3 and guessing wrong can really hurt the future of the roster.

not saying I necessarily want him to be traded, but that it's far more complicated than just whether or not he has room for improvement.

I'd rather have wiggens at 30 million then Kyrie at 40 mil plus in 2 years. By trading for Kyrie your gambling alot more then keeping wiggens for 5 yrs at 30 mil
Kyries agent Is gonna look at what Curry got and what Wall got and demand something similiar

Kyrie isn't even in the same realm as those two.

[Oriole8159]

If he's about what he's gonna be huh
Wiggens is 22, no room for improvement right

it's not so much whether he can or can't improve, but whether it's worth gambling 5 years $150 million on whether he can hit his peak. considering we already have 2 max worthy players on the roster in Towns and Butler, keeping cap flexibility and finding the right specific compliments are paramount; so gambling on the wrong #3 and guessing wrong can really hurt the future of the roster.

not saying I necessarily want him to be traded, but that it's far more complicated than just whether or not he has room for improvement.

I'd rather have wiggens at 30 million then Kyrie at 40 mil plus in 2 years. By trading for Kyrie your gambling alot more then keeping wiggens for 5 yrs at 30 mil
Kyries agent Is gonna look at what Curry got and what Wall got and demand something similiar

I also wouldn't do Wiggins for Kyrie, but that doesn't mean that I would be opposed to us pursuing other #3 options with Wiggins as a trade chip. There could be better fits with more well rounded games, and that may in turn save us money.

I'd also expect though that Thibs and Layden have a far more comprehensive analysis of Wiggins considering they work/communicate with him regularly and that they're basketball savants, so it's probably one of those things that I'd be cautiously optimistic on no matter which route they go.
If they've been watching him for the whole last year plus this offseason and their satisfied with his progression and gambling that he'll put it all together with the new pieces around him taking some of the pressure off, then I'm okay with the extension.
But if they've been watching him for the whole last year plus this offseason and are not satisified with his progression/attitude, then I'm okay with them trading him for a more complimentary #3 piece while he still has name brand recognition.

[Quentin]

What i want to know is, with Tows and Butler apparently pushing for an Irving trade, how the hell does Wiggins feel?

Wiggins has been out of the country. Otherwise, he may have been in on this too.

[AirP.]

Its nice that LeBron has been able to carry him that far.

Sure, the thing is without LeBron he'd probably score even more, he just wouldn't of gotten as far in the playoffs.

Right now Wiggins still has that potential tag on him so he's still valuable. If he's about what he's going to be, a volume scorer that's athletic and doesn't play much defense, rebound, playmake... that at a max contract could be what stops Minnesota from being a true contender. This trade that Minnesota does/doesn't make for Kyrie could be the biggest reason why don't become a truely elite team although Towns and Butler should be enough to get them close(Wiggins isn't in either of their class and might never be, Irving is).

If he's about what he's gonna be huh
Wiggens is 22, no room for improvement right

Well, it's pretty incredible how his rate of stats(PER36) hasn't moved much for MOST of his stats except for FGA, Scoring, 3pt%(this one is good imporvement) in his 3 years in the league... not his first or 2nd year, 3 full 35+ minutes a night seasons.

% and PER36 to get the rate of a stat. It's REMARKABLE how much he's not gotten better or worse in 3 seasons.
TS%: 52%, 54%, 53% - No improvement
FG%: 44%, 46%, 45% - No improvement
reb: 4.5, 3.7, 3.9 - No improvement
ast: 2.1, 2.1, 2.2 - No improvement
TO: 2.1, 2.3, 2.2 - No improvement, but not bad.
St: 1.0, 1.0, 1.0 - No improvement.
FT%: 76%, 76%, 76% - No improvement but consistent and solid.

What he's gotten better in is this...
3pt%: 31%, 30%, 36% - Good improvement.

All of this while STILL being a bad defender by the end of his 3rd season.

If he signs anywhere near the max and he doesn't improve, you'll have 2 guys worth more then their maxes(Towns and Butler) and Wiggins worth way less then his max. Sure I think he'll get somewhat better in his career, but I don't expect it to be worth the max unless something incredible happens, normally that would be getting huge minutes, he's had that all 3 years.

[Avihs7]

it's not so much whether he can or can't improve, but whether it's worth gambling 5 years $150 million on whether he can hit his peak. considering we already have 2 max worthy players on the roster in Towns and Butler, keeping cap flexibility and finding the right specific compliments are paramount; so gambling on the wrong #3 and guessing wrong can really hurt the future of the roster.

not saying I necessarily want him to be traded, but that it's far more complicated than just whether or not he has room for improvement.

I'd rather have wiggens at 30 million then Kyrie at 40 mil plus in 2 years. By trading for Kyrie your gambling alot more then keeping wiggens for 5 yrs at 30 mil
Kyries agent Is gonna look at what Curry got and what Wall got and demand something similiar

Kyrie isn't even in the same realm as those two.

I'm willing to bet his agent thinks he is