How good is Jokic? [Poll added]

[NuggetsWY]

My daddy said that if one person calls you out, you can ignore them.
If two people call you out, you should maybe think about it.
When ten people call you out, you need to shut down.

Ok, if you think Jokic is a top 10 player I'm calling you out. Are you really going to think about it?

There is an argument that he is a top 10 player and was clearly the best young big in the league last year, do you have something saying he wasn't?

Hmmm, RTG, maybe you should read posts instead of making assumptions. Even on the Nuggets' board, I have never claimed Jokic is a "top 10 player". Do I believe he has that potential? Yes. Do I believe he is already there? Probably not. Others have made that statement. Do I believe he is the best young center in the NBA today? Perhaps but there's a guy in Philadelphia that if he can stay healthy .... Do I believe Jokic is one of the best 21 year old players in the last few years? Sure. Do I believe his one of the best 21 year old players ever? Perhaps.

I'll wait one more year before making any drastic claims, unlike many Jokic-lovers and pretty much every Jokic-haters.

[RTG HD]

My daddy said that if one person calls you out, you can ignore them.
If two people call you out, you should maybe think about it.
When ten people call you out, you need to shut down.

Ok, if you think Jokic is a top 10 player I'm calling you out. Are you really going to think about it?

There is an argument that he is a top 10 player and was clearly the best young big in the league last year, do you have something saying he wasn't?

As for best young big, that is a very limited group with terms that can be argued about for days. I am not interested in arguments where the goalpost is moved so lets focus on the actual argument of top 10 player or not. I can say that he did not lift his team into the playoffs as people predicted he would last year. Funny enough he got outplayed head to head in his loss to the team that traded for the teammate that he did not get along with. If you are tempted to blame his supporting cast remember that players like Wesbrook, James, and Lillard have all willed teams with not much supporting cast into the playoffs.

I will give you a list of players in no given order. Please tell me that you can not find 10 players on the list better than Jokic right now. Note that there are many very good players not on the list because I did not think of them.

K Durant
R. Westbrook
L. James
J. Harden
A. Davis
K. Leonard
S. Curry
K. Irving
D. Lillard
I. Thomas
P. George
J. Wall
G. Antetokounmpo
K. Thompson
D. Booker
D. DeRozan
B. Griffin
K. Porzingis
K. Towns
D. Green

[Winsome Gerbil]

Ok, if you think Jokic is a top 10 player I'm calling you out. Are you really going to think about it?

There is an argument that he is a top 10 player and was clearly the best young big in the league last year, do you have something saying he wasn't?

As for best young big, that is a very limited group with terms that can be argued about for days. I am not interested in arguments where the goalpost is moved so lets focus on the actual argument of top 10 player or not. I can say that he did not lift his team into the playoffs as people predicted he would last year. Funny enough he got outplayed head to head in his loss to the team that traded for the teammate that he did not get along with. If you are tempted to blame his supporting cast remember that players like Wesbrook, James, and Lillard have all willed teams with not much supporting cast into the playoffs.

I will give you a list of players in no given order. Please tell me that you can not find 10 players on the list better than Jokic right now. Note that there are many very good players not on the list because I did not think of them.

K Durant
R. Westbrook
L. James
J. Harden
A. Davis
K. Leonard
S. Curry
K. Irving
D. Lillard
I. Thomas
P. George
J. Wall
G. Antetokounmpo
K. Thompson
D. Booker
D. DeRozan
B. Griffin
K. Porzingis
K. Towns
D. Green

Cousins

The thing is, we are going to get a better feel for Jokic offensively this year, but a major concern that is going to likely cap him is that he is neither a good defender nor does he have the obvious tools to become one. That's a hard thing for a center who teams use to anchor their defenses.

[Romeiro Celtic]

I think Jokic will be one of the top 10 players in the league very soon, but to be a top 5 I think he should work more on his defense, try to at least be a better defender.

[RTG HD]

Ok, if you think Jokic is a top 10 player I'm calling you out. Are you really going to think about it?

There is an argument that he is a top 10 player and was clearly the best young big in the league last year, do you have something saying he wasn't?

Hmmm, RTG, maybe you should read posts instead of making assumptions. Even on the Nuggets' board, I have never claimed Jokic is a "top 10 player". Do I believe he has that potential? Yes. Do I believe he is already there? Probably not. Others have made that statement. Do I believe he is the best young center in the NBA today? Perhaps but there's a guy in Philadelphia that if he can stay healthy .... Do I believe Jokic is one of the best 21 year old players in the last few years? Sure. Do I believe his one of the best 21 year old players ever? Perhaps.

I'll wait one more year before making any drastic claims, unlike many Jokic-lovers and pretty much every Jokic-haters.

I made the post because of your arbitrary bs about number of people calling someone out. Obviously being called out by a sports fan means very little no matter the numbers.

[Yuri Vaultin]

Everyone, thanks for making my point: he's NOT a top 5 player right now. Or top 10.

Top 10 is reserved for guys who are ALREADY there. With no asterisks, no special instructions of how to view them

So, again, calm down. Quite a few of you said he's ALREADY that good. He's not.

Dont call me when you're in my town, call me when you're on my BLOCK

My daddy said that if one person calls you out, you can ignore them.
If two people call you out, you should maybe think about it.
When ten people call you out, you need to shut down.

*Yawn* Couldn't care less. Dont worry i'll bump this thread when the Nuggets are fighting for a 7 seed and the media turns heel on him and starts pointing out his warts, and questions why all his "stats" arent translation to wins. He nor the Nuggets had any expectations before. They added Milsap. They do now. Watch what happens

Umm... 7th seed in the West is a success for a young team like the nuggets. in fact it would be more success than the guys that are "already stars" in Cousins, A.D. or Towns have had.

Im trying to understand where you're coming from with your logic. It seems as though you have some weird bias against the guy despite all the stats being shared pointing to him being pretty fricken elite.

[Richard Miller]

*Yawn* Couldn't care less. Dont worry i'll bump this thread when the Nuggets

Like anyone gives a toss what you will do.

[Bobalob]

My daddy said that if one person calls you out, you can ignore them.
If two people call you out, you should maybe think about it.
When ten people call you out, you need to shut down.

*Yawn* Couldn't care less. Dont worry i'll bump this thread when the Nuggets are fighting for a 7 seed and the media turns heel on him and starts pointing out his warts, and questions why all his "stats" arent translation to wins. He nor the Nuggets had any expectations before. They added Milsap. They do now. Watch what happens

Umm... 7th seed in the West is a success for a young team like the nuggets. in fact it would be more success than the guys that are "already stars" in Cousins, A.D. or Towns have had.

Im trying to understand where you're coming from with your logic. It seems as though you have some weird bias against the guy despite all the stats being shared pointing to him being pretty fricken elite.

Lebron, Kwahi, Durant, Curry, Westbrook, Harden

That is elite.

To a lesser extent: George, Wall, Lillard

All these guys earned the right to be called elite or close to it because of what they did ON THE COURT. The top group its obvious, and the bottom group even tho they didnt have the success, they've done something in the playoffs that made you say WOW. They've each carried or almost carried whole teams and over-achieved.

JOKIC HAS DONE NOTHING except produce nifty advance metrics. Until his on-court success matches his "advanced metrics" he cant touch the word elite.

Potential to be great? Sure. Already there? Please. Its disgusting.

[thamadkant]

The only thing keeping him from being the best player in the league in 1-2 years will be his ability to play big minutes in long-physical playoff series. I think he's better than KAT and on a better trajectory that AD or Gobert.

Not to mention that Millsap might be the perfect partner for him in the front court. Denver will be very good this year.

Gobert's offensive efficiencies is misleading. He is a limited offensive player.

AD is miles ahead of him offensively.... Jokic too.

[NuggetsWY]

There is an argument that he is a top 10 player and was clearly the best young big in the league last year, do you have something saying he wasn't?

Hmmm, RTG, maybe you should read posts instead of making assumptions. Even on the Nuggets' board, I have never claimed Jokic is a "top 10 player". Do I believe he has that potential? Yes. Do I believe he is already there? Probably not. Others have made that statement. Do I believe he is the best young center in the NBA today? Perhaps but there's a guy in Philadelphia that if he can stay healthy .... Do I believe Jokic is one of the best 21 year old players in the last few years? Sure. Do I believe his one of the best 21 year old players ever? Perhaps.

I'll wait one more year before making any drastic claims, unlike many Jokic-lovers and pretty much every Jokic-haters.

I made the post because of your arbitrary bs about number of people calling someone out. Obviously being called out by a sports fan means very little no matter the numbers.

Well then, I'm calling you out because you don't believe the Denver Broncos are better hockey players than the New York Yankees - since "being called out by a sports fan means very little no matter the numbers." It appears you do not regard facts either. As I said, I never said "Jokic is top 10". There seem to be many people supporting Jokic as "very good" and only a couple arguing against many. My statement was regarding that. You "called me out" on something totally unrelated to what I was saying.

So are you ready to discuss the Broncos vs. the Yankees on ice skates? It should be very slippery since there are no numbers or facts. Sounds like your type of discussion.

[RTG HD]

Hmmm, RTG, maybe you should read posts instead of making assumptions. Even on the Nuggets' board, I have never claimed Jokic is a "top 10 player". Do I believe he has that potential? Yes. Do I believe he is already there? Probably not. Others have made that statement. Do I believe he is the best young center in the NBA today? Perhaps but there's a guy in Philadelphia that if he can stay healthy .... Do I believe Jokic is one of the best 21 year old players in the last few years? Sure. Do I believe his one of the best 21 year old players ever? Perhaps.

I'll wait one more year before making any drastic claims, unlike many Jokic-lovers and pretty much every Jokic-haters.

I made the post because of your arbitrary bs about number of people calling someone out. Obviously being called out by a sports fan means very little no matter the numbers.

Well then, I'm calling you out because you don't believe the Denver Broncos are better hockey players than the New York Yankees - since "being called out by a sports fan means very little no matter the numbers." It appears you do not regard facts either. As I said, I never said "Jokic is top 10". There seem to be many people supporting Jokic as "very good" and only a couple arguing against many. My statement was regarding that. You "called me out" on something totally unrelated to what I was saying.

So are you ready to discuss the Broncos vs. the Yankees on ice skates? It should be very slippery since there are no numbers or facts. Sounds like your type of discussion.

By numbers I meant number of sports fans. As for the Broncos vs. Yankees on ice skates, lets let the NY Knicks board decide for us, that seems like your kind of solutions.

[First Step]

LOL. How did this turn into a debate whether the Broncos or Yankees would win in a hockey game?

[RTG HD]

LOL. How did this turn into a debate whether the Broncos or Yankees would win in a hockey game?

To be clear I never actually said the Yankees would win.

[velkisimo]

LOL. How did this turn into a debate whether the Broncos or Yankees would win in a hockey game?

Very simple actually. When 1 poster makes assumptions of what other poster said without actually reading to make sure he indeed said it, and then ignoring the fact he did just that.

Hmm, now that i read what i said i can understand the confusion

On topic, Jokic is the reason why i am contemplating NBA League pass. I have been a basketball fan for many years now. As i grow older, i tend to fall a sleep by the end of the first quarter and wake up close to the end of game. He makes me watch a full game

[RTG HD]

LOL. How did this turn into a debate whether the Broncos or Yankees would win in a hockey game?

Very simple actually. When 1 poster makes assumptions of what other poster said without actually reading to make sure he indeed said it, and then ignoring the fact he did just that.

Hmm, now that i read what i said i can understand the confusion

On topic, Jokic is the reason why i am contemplating NBA League pass. I have been a basketball fan for many years now. As i grow older, i tend to fall a sleep by the end of the first quarter and wake up close to the end of game. He makes me watch a full game

I was making fun of his bad logic having to do with the number of people calling someone out. I hope you get League Pass, there are many good playoff teams to enjoy watching.

[velkisimo]

I was making fun of his bad logic having to do with the number of people calling someone out. I hope you get League Pass, there are many good playoff teams to enjoy watching.

I see what you did there.

Should I now make fun of that post by pointing out that last year playoffs have arguably been the worst playoffs ever?

[RTG HD]

I was making fun of his bad logic having to do with the number of people calling someone out. I hope you get League Pass, there are many good playoff teams to enjoy watching.

I see what you did there.

Should I now make fun of that post by pointing out that last year playoffs have arguably been the worst playoffs ever?

Yeah I think that is fair, unfortunately. They are still fun to watch in the regular season but the playoffs where too predictable.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Watch on YouTube

[Pachinko_]

In my mind the important thing that contributed in Jokic's success is that they've built their system around him in a way that is not necessarily very common in the NBA. Jokic is an unusual kind of star, he's not the star dude you can just give the ball to and "let him go to work", and is not the C that will erase people near the basket. He needs wings that move all the time off ball so he can find his passes, he needs plays that throw the D off balance, and he needs athletic forwards that can somewhat cover his deficiencies around the rim.

If you just ISO him and wait at the corners you'll be disappointed. You have to work as a team to get the best out him, and in my mind the Nuggets coach has done a good job.

By the way exactly the same thing applies to Teodosic.

[SoCalNuggsFan]

I think von miller would be a sneaky good skater