How good is Jokic? [Poll added]

Ryoga Hibiki · Post #141 » by **Ryoga Hibiki** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 9:21 am

I think a healthy Embiid is actually a better prospect, because he already showed both amazing offensive and defensive skills.
To be honest, I believe Embiid is by far the best prospect since LeBron.

What makes Jokic unique is that his offensive dominance comes from the way it influences the whole offence keeping everyone active and involved while being a great threat himself. As great as Towns is (and he's really great), he's more of a Kyrie Irving while Jokic reminds me a Steve Nash from the center position.
His defensive potential depends on how smart he becomes on helping and positional awareness. He'll never be a Gobert-like rim protector or able to switch on everybody like Draymond, but he can become a perennial +2/+3 defender and that, with his offence, night mean MVP caliber.

Anyway, to be clear as someone in this thread is not getting it.
These are projections, all the young guys, from Towns to Giannis, will have to prove themselves. Here we are just making educated (as much as we can) predictions.

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Mrva · Post #142 » by **Mrva** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 11:21 am

elBJ wrote:Him not playing in the euros may indicate he's finally juicing up this off season. If and successfully so, good night US big men.

I saw somewhere a recent picture of him. Unfortunately, he isn't juicing yet

Acountant_Z · Post #143 » by **Acountant_Z** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 11:38 am

Illmatic12 · Post #144 » by **Illmatic12** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 11:59 am

kinggnik87 wrote:IMHO, if a player is able to do amazing things on the court effortlessly and looks easy doing it, this means he is able to do whatever he wants in the game (Lebron, Curry and other elites).

Back to the topic, he is a great shooter below the 3pt line. Doesn't rely much of athleticism to score, amazing passer, great rebounder, basically an offensive juggernaut in a 6'11 body.

What Jokic needs now is a few more years of consistency and we are looking at the GOAT in the making.

He needs to start playing some defense before we start talking about GOAT.

That said, Jokic seems like one of the best Euro big man prospects we've seen since Nowitzki, with the potential to reach Dirk's peak. World-class passing ability and bball IQ for his age, and he as a scorer he is far more skilled around the basket and midrange than most PF/Cs in the league. Really looking forward to watching him develop

Sir Psycho Sexy · Post #145 » by **Sir Psycho Sexy** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 12:04 pm

Mrva wrote:
elBJ wrote:Him not playing in the euros may indicate he's finally juicing up this off season. If and successfully so, good night US big men.

I saw somewhere a recent picture of him. Unfortunately, he isn't juicing yet

He shouldn't juice up, he should trim the fat. He isn't the strongest guy but he is strong enough. I don't remember anyone really overpowering him

Post #146 » by **NuggetsWY** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 1:09 pm

Ponchos wrote:Love Jokic, reminds me of Webber when he passes.

He will be a top 15 player, but his defensive limitations will stop him from ever being a legit MVP candidate.

Well, you should be right but I have to disagree - not with your assessment of Jokic - but with your assumption that MVP has anything to do with defense. :noway:

Not in the modern NBA it doesn't. :wink:

LikeABosh · Post #147 » by **LikeABosh** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 2:18 pm

Pachinko_ wrote:
khufure wrote:but yeah whenever I see Jokic play I'm impressed. kid got hops.

this is literally the one thing he doesn't have

Maybe not, but you have to respect his killer crossover

TPV · Post #148 » by **TPV** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 2:21 pm

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but the thread poll is ridiculously biased to Jokic. With that said, I voted for Jokic, though I think that other bigs such as Davis, Embiid and Gobert should be added as well. Particularly would be interested to see how Jokic stacks up against AD.

Jokic has already shown that as an offensive centrepiece, he can make his teammates better and make the team as a whole better. It's insane to think that his offense actually could become better. He'll be in tough competition to win an MVP, but I think if he keeps this up for 8+ seasons, he'll have built himself a very strong Hall of Fame candidacy.

Pachinko_ · Post #149 » by **Pachinko_** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 2:32 pm

Yeah I'm surprised people like him as much as I do. To me he's the most exciting player to watch after Giannis, it's just crazy to see how many ways he finds to get all those numbers without even jumping or looking like he tries too hard.

To be fair to the guy he's made huge improvements on his body, but he's still a ways away from the average NBA center physically. Not that it stops him from anything.

bo8403 · Post #150 » by **bo8403** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 2:40 pm

Jokic vs KAT debate is Duncan vs KG

KG had the better stats, Duncan more impact.

KAT = KG
Jokic = Duncan

Dante80 · Post #151 » by **Dante80** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 2:42 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:He needs to start playing some defense before we start talking about GOAT.

His defense is not bad, it's not even average. It is good. Jokic is NOT a defensive liability, far from it.

It is not very good or Elite like some other bigs have shown though. So, he has to work on it. Players tend to get better at the things they do the best, simply because those are also the things they do the most. But working on your personal weaknesses is simply a matter of practice and determination.

Luckily, a good chunk of the defensive attributives a player may have stems from BB IQ (which is something that he has in spades). And another big part is simply the will to defend. So it is certainly something that a young player like him can address.

bo8403 · Post #152 » by **bo8403** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 2:43 pm

As it looks like now (with all due respect to Dirk), he will end up being the greatest European basketball player ever

First Step · Post #153 » by **First Step** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 2:55 pm

bo8403 wrote:As it looks like now (with all due respect to Dirk), he will end up being the greatest European basketball player ever

A lot would not have to go wrong for Jokic to surpass Dirk.. Dirk is a FMVP, and MVP

bmurph128 · Post #154 » by **bmurph128** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 3:01 pm

He's an all star, but not yet a superstar. And IMO people are projecting a bit too far and overreacting in this thread.

I'd take KAT still, and he and Porzingis are probably around a similar level - one of them just happens to play for the Knicks.

Bobalob · Post #155 » by **Bobalob** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 3:13 pm

bo8403 wrote:Jokic vs KAT debate is Duncan vs KG

KG had the better stats, Duncan more impact.

KAT = KG
Jokic = Duncan

That doesnt work. A more appropriate explanation of KG-Duncan would be KG had the better all-around game and overall talent, but Duncan was the better and more reliable low post scorer (hence creating more double teams, hence having more impact) and had better teams

So in that case, KG = Jokic, Kat = Duncan :nod:

Being a passing bigman is great and all but being unstoppable on offense is worth more. A more selfish KG probably retires with more than 1 ring

Post #156 » by **Alfred** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 3:22 pm

First Step wrote:
bo8403 wrote:As it looks like now (with all due respect to Dirk), he will end up being the greatest European basketball player ever

A lot would not have to go wrong for Jokic to surpass Dirk.. Dirk is a FMVP, and MVP

Yeah, Dirk is a hard person to top. MVP, FMVP, extremely long career as the #1 option on a contender and one of the best shooters of all time. I like Jokic, and can see where people are coming from, but let's let him play a few more seasons before we put him in the hall of fame.

sisibilio · Post #157 » by **sisibilio** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 3:29 pm

Kupchak9 wrote:I expect by 2019 he'll consistently be a top 5 player for the next 8-10 years. He reminds me of prime Pau, which is amazing because he's only 22!

He doesn't have the same agility as Pau, if anything he's closer to Marc, which isn't a bad thing.

Kabookalu · Post #158 » by **Kabookalu** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 3:37 pm

Man I think a lot of you guys are sleeping on KAT. I thought his defense would be better but to be honest last season could just be a write off for the entire team. Thibs is a defensive specialist but his intense 8 hour a day practices and exhausting attention to detail could just not be for everyone, at first, especially for the young pups. Seems like the only types of players that are receptive to it well initially are veterans. He was showing a ton of defensive promise in his rookie year.

Infinite Llamas · Post #159 » by **Infinite Llamas** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 4:15 pm

How can people accurately judge his defense when the team trotted out a defensive sieve like Jameer Nelson for major minutes?? It didn't help anything.

I'm infatuated by Jokic and his development and I relish the chance to watch an elite passing big man because I missed out on watching guys like Sabonis and only saw the end of Divac's prime. I watched more Denver games last year than I did in the last decade combined

Nuggets_Talk · Post #160 » by **Nuggets_Talk** » Wed Aug 2, 2017 4:38 pm

Kabookalu wrote:Man I think a lot of you guys are sleeping on KAT. I thought his defense would be better but to be honest last season could just be a write off for the entire team. Thibs is a defensive specialist but his intense 8 hour a day practices and exhausting attention to detail could just not be for everyone, at first, especially for the young pups. Seems like the only types of players that are receptive to it well initially are veterans. He was showing a ton of defensive promise in his rookie year.

Who is sleeping on kat? Lots of praise for him in this thread

Who would you rather have?