The Andrew Wiggins Thread

[Zeitgeister]

Wiggins sure gets slot of attention for a supposed scrub.

Probably because he's soon to be a vastly overpaid.

I mean if Otto Porter is getting a max contract...

Porter wasn't worth the max but he's better than Wiggins. Wiggins will be playing the Porter role this season. He's not the shooter he is, not the defender he is.

[slinky]

Nor is Wiggins the age that Otto Porter is too. Wiggins can get to Otto Porter levels in a couple years. Wiggins is definitely a risk when it comes to whether or not he is worth the max, but for me you pay the money and move on. He still at 22 has the potential to be an all-star or better player. And I just don't think most teams would or should turn their back on that type of talent.

And personally I am more confident that his ultimate floor is that of an Otto Porter type(solid starter, whose max deal won't be an albatross vs. production) than think he will be a chucking, inefficient turnstile as he has been made out to be on the various boards.

[mplsfonz23]

Wiggins is worth the max an will be better in the future then butler and kyrie are today. Anyone who says hes not worth the extension doesnt watch him night in an night out. The kids 21 and doing big things already

Whoa.....Let's slow down with those comparisons. I like your thinking, but....Whoa.

[mplsfonz23]

I think too many are focusing on the word "Max."

Will he be overpaid? Sure. But that's the way of the NBA now. I am pretty sure the Wolves FO may be balking at the full "max" dollar amount, but it would not be a wise move to try to lowball him. If...Big IF..He hits restricted free agency, he's going to be offered the max, at that point we would almost have to match. Why not show the players who WANT to be here good faith by extending now, and maybe save a couple of dollars by giving him slightly lower than the max?
I personally think he will improve, and look right in line with some of the contracts given, and soon to be giving out. I think there are several that will make his look good. Otto Porter? C'mon Son.

[minimus]

That Otto Porter narrative is getting boring. He is same class of player as Crabbe. He is a good fit alongside Beal and Wall. But he is overrated as defender and can't create his shot like Wiggins already does.

[bake51]

Just crazy the hate Wiggins gets on the general board. Not sure if people realize that plenty of teams would offer Wiggins the max if he was a FA.

[Slim Tubby]

Wiggins is worth the max an will be better in the future then butler and kyrie are today. Anyone who says hes not worth the extension doesnt watch him night in an night out. The kids 21 and doing big things already

Welcome to the board, Darren!

[bake51]

Wiggins sure gets slot of attention for a supposed scrub.

Probably because he's soon to be a vastly overpaid.

I mean if Otto Porter is getting a max contract...

Porter wasn't worth the max but he's better than Wiggins. Wiggins will be playing the Porter role this season. He's not the shooter he is, not the defender he is.

You think Thibs is going to tell Wiggins to become a 3 and D guy? I think Wiggins will be like DWade on the Heat when LeBron was there. He's going to be a 1B/1C kind of guy instead of sitting in the corner like Porter.

Porter is a good basketball player but is extremely limited. He plays very good defense but isn't a lockdown defender by any means and he has a good 3 point shot but he is more of a 36%-38% shooter rather than the 40+% like last year. His post all star percentage was 34%, he just shot the ball very good pre all star.

[Zeitgeister]

Wiggins sure gets slot of attention for a supposed scrub.

Probably because he's soon to be a vastly overpaid.

I mean if Otto Porter is getting a max contract...

Porter wasn't worth the max but he's better than Wiggins. Wiggins will be playing the Porter role this season. He's not the shooter he is, not the defender he is.

You think Thibs is going to tell Wiggins to become a 3 and D guy? I think Wiggins will be like DWade on the Heat when LeBron was there. He's going to be a 1B/1C kind of guy instead of sitting in the corner like Porter.

Porter is a good basketball player but is extremely limited. He plays very good defense but isn't a lockdown defender by any means and he has a good 3 point shot but he is more of a 36%-38% shooter rather than the 40+% like last year. His post all star percentage was 34%, he just shot the ball very good pre all star.

Wiggins will get the third or fourth most touches on the offense. KAT will get more, Butler will get more, and Teague will probably get more too because he'll share playmaking duties with Butler. So if you want to consider that a 3&D, that's fine because that would be ideal if he could transition to that given the tremendous value 3&D's have. His ppg is almost assuredly going to drop a lot, look at what happened to Kevin Love who is and has been a better scorer than Wiggins.

That doesn't mean Wiggins will never have anything run for him but he's going to have to get out and run in transition like he's never done. He's going to have to create scoring opportunities through his defense which rarely ever happens. There are a lot of question marks with Wiggins in his new role. I would not be surprised at all if his ppg dropped to 16-18.

I don't agree that Porter is more limited, he's the type of player that has a skillset that translates to any team in the NBA. I don't see the lack of isolation scoring with the inclusion of much better defense, rebounding and better shooting as Porter being more limited. Neither Wiggins or Porter have shown the ability to lead a good team so far but Porter has shown the ability to fit in really well and make a good team better.

[Oriole8159]

on a game by game basis, this will all work itself out.

at the end of the year on a macro level, Wiggins may be 3rd or 4th in total looks, but during the game the touches he's getting will be far more effective because pressure will be focused on Teague, Butler and Towns.
there will also be plenty of games where he's hot and others are off, so he will lead touches in those games as others feed the hot hand.

the important question though will be, when his offense is off on any given night, what else is he doing to provide value to the team?

[Ethomasp31]

Probably because he's soon to be a vastly overpaid.



Porter wasn't worth the max but he's better than Wiggins. Wiggins will be playing the Porter role this season. He's not the shooter he is, not the defender he is.

You think Thibs is going to tell Wiggins to become a 3 and D guy? I think Wiggins will be like DWade on the Heat when LeBron was there. He's going to be a 1B/1C kind of guy instead of sitting in the corner like Porter.

Porter is a good basketball player but is extremely limited. He plays very good defense but isn't a lockdown defender by any means and he has a good 3 point shot but he is more of a 36%-38% shooter rather than the 40+% like last year. His post all star percentage was 34%, he just shot the ball very good pre all star.

Wiggins will get the third or fourth most touches on the offense. KAT will get more, Butler will get more, and Teague will probably get more too because he'll share playmaking duties with Butler. So if you want to consider that a 3&D, that's fine because that would be ideal if he could transition to that given the tremendous value 3&D's have. His ppg is almost assuredly going to drop a lot, look at what happened to Kevin Love who is and has been a better scorer than Wiggins.

That doesn't mean Wiggins will never have anything run for him but he's going to have to get out and run in transition like he's never done. He's going to have to create scoring opportunities through his defense which rarely ever happens. There are a lot of question marks with Wiggins in his new role. I would not be surprised at all if his ppg dropped to 16-18.

I don't agree that Porter is more limited, he's the type of player that has a skillset that translates to any team in the NBA. I don't see the lack of isolation scoring with the inclusion of much better defense, rebounding and better shooting as Porter being more limited. Neither Wiggins or Porter have shown the ability to lead a good team so far but Porter has shown the ability to fit in really well and make a good team better.

I'm kind of bummed this thread will be locked so we can't bump in January.

[minimus]

Otto Porter is clearly overpaid, his contract includes all possible poison pills, he is overpaid just like any other player who got offer sheet from Brooklyn. He is a good player, no doubt. But his real value is 20-30% less than his contract. He shot really well, thanks to incredible Wall and Beal game, but other than this fact he doesn't contribute much. He is not Scottie Pippen as you might think after scouting his physical profile.

[Zeitgeister]

You think Thibs is going to tell Wiggins to become a 3 and D guy? I think Wiggins will be like DWade on the Heat when LeBron was there. He's going to be a 1B/1C kind of guy instead of sitting in the corner like Porter.

Porter is a good basketball player but is extremely limited. He plays very good defense but isn't a lockdown defender by any means and he has a good 3 point shot but he is more of a 36%-38% shooter rather than the 40+% like last year. His post all star percentage was 34%, he just shot the ball very good pre all star.

Wiggins will get the third or fourth most touches on the offense. KAT will get more, Butler will get more, and Teague will probably get more too because he'll share playmaking duties with Butler. So if you want to consider that a 3&D, that's fine because that would be ideal if he could transition to that given the tremendous value 3&D's have. His ppg is almost assuredly going to drop a lot, look at what happened to Kevin Love who is and has been a better scorer than Wiggins.

That doesn't mean Wiggins will never have anything run for him but he's going to have to get out and run in transition like he's never done. He's going to have to create scoring opportunities through his defense which rarely ever happens. There are a lot of question marks with Wiggins in his new role. I would not be surprised at all if his ppg dropped to 16-18.

I don't agree that Porter is more limited, he's the type of player that has a skillset that translates to any team in the NBA. I don't see the lack of isolation scoring with the inclusion of much better defense, rebounding and better shooting as Porter being more limited. Neither Wiggins or Porter have shown the ability to lead a good team so far but Porter has shown the ability to fit in really well and make a good team better.

I'm kind of bummed this thread will be locked so we can't bump in January.

Bookmark it and post it in the new thread. It's simple logic really which is why you don't have a real counter argument. There simply aren't enough shots to go around, do you honestly dispute that Wiggins is worse on offense than KAT or Butler or even Teague? You could make an argument about Wiggins vs Teague as scorers I suppose but Teague is a far better playmaker and as such should have the ball in his hands more often.

Why don't you go out on a limb and tell me how many points you think Wiggins is going to average.

What I've seen from people who disagree on Wiggins in the past is they'll bump a bunch of old threads when Wiggins is shooting well in any particular month and then you won't hear a peep out of them the next few months when Wiggins returned to where he always was.

Otto Porter is clearly overpaid, his contract includes all possible poison pills, he is overpaid just like any other player who got offer sheet from Brooklyn. He is a good player, no doubt. But his real value is 20-30% less than his contract. He shot really well, thanks to incredible Wall and Beal game, but other than this fact he doesn't contribute much. He is not Scottie Pippen as you might think after scouting his physical profile.

Okay, and he's also going to make a lot less than Wiggins (probably) while quite possibly remaining the better player. I'm not really sure where this Scottie Pippen thing came from, I've never heard it before. Porter is a good defender not great, Wiggins is atrocious among the worst in the league. Saying Porter is much better at defense does not mean he's Scottie Pippen, there's a wide spectrum in defensive competency.

[minimus]

Otto Porter physical tools suggest that he should be better at defending, rebounding. Did he make his team better in the playoff? Not really: 12.2 ppg, 53% FG, 23% 3pt, 6.9rpg, 1.7 apg

[Zeitgeister]

Otto Porter physical tools suggest that he should be better at defending, rebounding. Did he make his team better in the playoff? Not really: 12.2 ppg, 53% FG, 23% 3pt, 6.9rpg, 1.7 apg

Otto Porter had a 3.1 BPM, WS/48 of 166, 13.3 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 1.9 apg, 1.8 spg, .6 bpg with a .635 TS% in this season's playoffs.

Yes that is definitely indicative of someone who made their team better.

It's kinda funny that you're disparaging another player not using their physical tools in a Wiggins thread though. That's one of the most defining failures of Wiggins career thus far. He does not come remotely close to fully utilizing his physical tools.

Oh and btw, Otto Porter is listed at 6'8 198 lbs and has split his time in his career 80% SF, 17% PF, 3% SG. Wiggins is 6'8 199 lbs, Porter has a bit longer wingspan but I believe a shorter standing reach and Wiggins has a much higher max vert yet somehow Porter can handle SF and even playing PF in small ball lineups yet everyone says SG is Wiggins natural position and he's been at this big disadvantage for most of his career and that's the reason why he's struggled at some of these ancillary things.

[AirP.]

I'm kind of bummed this thread will be locked so we can't bump in January.

Bookmark it and reference it later. I know I've bookmarked it. Who knows, maybe he'll learn to play solid or even good defense, if he does that then I'd be way more comfortable giving him a max contract. He's got the athletic ability, he just doesn't have the mentality for defense at this point and maybe never. Maybe Butler being on the court with him could help him change that defensive mentality of Wiggins. If he does the Timberwovles are going to be serious threats for 5-8 years, if he doesn't that max contract with poor defense will be a huge problem for the franchise.

[minimus]

Zeitgeister

1) Your numbers are per 36 minutes in the playoff. But that's okay, still look ugly. He failed in the playoff, plain and simple.
2) Wiggins is not a pure SF, not yet. Yes, his attitude needs to improve, but his ability to score is something special and he has diversified his game a lot since his rookie year. And he is better at utilizing his immense physical tools now.
3) Porter can play PF, but this is the same story with Wiggins at SF. They both lack the strength to play against physical players.

[AirP.]

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[bake51]

Wiggins will get the third or fourth most touches on the offense. KAT will get more, Butler will get more, and Teague will probably get more too because he'll share playmaking duties with Butler. So if you want to consider that a 3&D, that's fine because that would be ideal if he could transition to that given the tremendous value 3&D's have. His ppg is almost assuredly going to drop a lot, look at what happened to Kevin Love who is and has been a better scorer than Wiggins.

That doesn't mean Wiggins will never have anything run for him but he's going to have to get out and run in transition like he's never done. He's going to have to create scoring opportunities through his defense which rarely ever happens. There are a lot of question marks with Wiggins in his new role. I would not be surprised at all if his ppg dropped to 16-18.

I don't agree that Porter is more limited, he's the type of player that has a skillset that translates to any team in the NBA. I don't see the lack of isolation scoring with the inclusion of much better defense, rebounding and better shooting as Porter being more limited. Neither Wiggins or Porter have shown the ability to lead a good team so far but Porter has shown the ability to fit in really well and make a good team better.

I'm kind of bummed this thread will be locked so we can't bump in January.

Bookmark it and post it in the new thread. It's simple logic really which is why you don't have a real counter argument. There simply aren't enough shots to go around, do you honestly dispute that Wiggins is worse on offense than KAT or Butler or even Teague? You could make an argument about Wiggins vs Teague as scorers I suppose but Teague is a far better playmaker and as such should have the ball in his hands more often.

Why don't you go out on a limb and tell me how many points you think Wiggins is going to average.

What I've seen from people who disagree on Wiggins in the past is they'll bump a bunch of old threads when Wiggins is shooting well in any particular month and then you won't hear a peep out of them the next few months when Wiggins returned to where he always was.

Otto Porter is clearly overpaid, his contract includes all possible poison pills, he is overpaid just like any other player who got offer sheet from Brooklyn. He is a good player, no doubt. But his real value is 20-30% less than his contract. He shot really well, thanks to incredible Wall and Beal game, but other than this fact he doesn't contribute much. He is not Scottie Pippen as you might think after scouting his physical profile.

Okay, and he's also going to make a lot less than Wiggins (probably) while quite possibly remaining the better player. I'm not really sure where this Scottie Pippen thing came from, I've never heard it before. Porter is a good defender not great, Wiggins is atrocious among the worst in the league. Saying Porter is much better at defense does not mean he's Scottie Pippen, there's a wide spectrum in defensive competency.

I think Wiggins is getting at least 20ppg if not more. I think we see Butler's points go down a tad. I see him being a big playmaker.

[GopherIt!]

Just crazy the hate Wiggins gets on the general board. Not sure if people realize that plenty of teams would offer Wiggins the max if he was a FA.

Most of them don't even watch him play. They just looked at his rpm & vorp on bball ref once and parrot other haters.