2017 Nets Offseason Thread III

[Ror1997]

It's more like both

Possibly but very risky.

Risky? That response doesn't even make sense. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you have to shut it down and pretend you're still right. You do this stupid **** all the time. Stick to the lin thread, and stop trying to be a know it all.

Ummm.....I'm sorry, how doesn't it make sense? He played around 30 minutes coming off the bench in Portland. We could try doing that with him but do some small tweaks, it would be pretty risky to expect the result to be quite a bit better.

(Real glad I'm in agreement with Prok here so your effort of witchhunting is pretty moot, even tho he might be wary of it)

Because the argument you're trying to present revolves around Crabbe getting more shots and taking different kind of shots. That's how you utilize a player differently.

Giving him more minutes =/= better utilization

You trying to base the argument around him needing more minutes instead of more shots...Doesn't make sense.

To call it risky pisses me off, rightfully so. You do not understand basketball. That's something that became obvious after a year of posting. You like Jeremy Lin and thats cool. But you're clueless about the sport itself. Just stay in the Lin thread and stop quoting me. I don't care for your input, and if its as dumb as it usually is I'm going to let you know. I'm sick of lin fans acting like that know anything about basketball. I remember having to explain to you what a draft and stash pick, and you followed that up by suggesting the stash pick could contribute next year at the same level as Nikola Mitotic


And if you wanna say something, don't try and hide it behind size 60 text.

[vincecarter4pres]

Hoping for the Nets to have a post-Marbury-like surprising run, but this board is having a Knix Marbury meltdown lol.

[Prokorov]

Yes, we should have won more games.

But we didn't. No one cares who was injured. the record is the record, the sum of wins are the end result.

so coming out, expecting 40+ wins after a 20 win season is highly irrational.


like seriously CRAZY talk. absolute nutjob rhetroic based off of last season, and...reeks of an agenda.

On this specific point -- yes, for posterity, the record is the record.

But facts like injuries matter, especially for accurate assessments of where a team stands (and for when you're betting on the over under for next season!).

If we had no injuries last year and still won 20 games, I'd have a lot lower assessment of how many wins the Nets could get this year, maybe mid 20s.

Expecting 40+ wins after a 20 win season that had no injuries is highly irrational.

Expecting 40 wins after a 20 win season that should've been a 30 win season with no injuries, and a summer of solid offseason pickups, is optimistic.

expecting any team to be injury free isnt realistic. its odd when a team DOESNT lost a starter/rotation guy for at least some period of time, let alone the nets who had several guys with injury issues/risks coming in.

and that is no different this year. Levert has his foot issues, Allen couldnt compete in summer league, crabbe is coming off surgery, lin battled hamstring issues last year, RHJ missed most of his rookie year to injury, carroll has knee issues, harris had concussion issues to end his season... etc..

To be honest, the only real way we win 40 games is i russell has a breakout year 3 and becomes a harden impact type guy

[Roy Tarpley]

Yes, we should have won more games.

But we didn't. No one cares who was injured. the record is the record, the sum of wins are the end result.

so coming out, expecting 40+ wins after a 20 win season is highly irrational.


like seriously CRAZY talk. absolute nutjob rhetroic based off of last season, and...reeks of an agenda.

On this specific point -- yes, for posterity, the record is the record.

But facts like injuries matter, especially for accurate assessments of where a team stands (and for when you're betting on the over under for next season!).

If we had no injuries last year and still won 20 games, I'd have a lot lower assessment of how many wins the Nets could get this year, maybe mid 20s.

Expecting 40+ wins after a 20 win season that had no injuries is highly irrational.

Expecting 40 wins after a 20 win season that should've been a 30 win season with no injuries, and a summer of solid offseason pickups, is optimistic.

expecting any team to be injury free isnt realistic. its odd when a team DOESNT lost a starter/rotation guy for at least some period of time, let alone the nets who had several guys with injury issues/risks coming in.

and that is no different this year. Levert has his foot issues, Allen couldnt compete in summer league, crabbe is coming off surgery, lin battled hamstring issues last year, RHJ missed most of his rookie year to injury, carroll has knee issues, harris had concussion issues to end his season... etc..

To be honest, the only real way we win 40 games is i russell has a breakout year 3 and becomes a harden impact type guy

This is fair. We will definitely have injuries next year, and perhaps I'll adjust my prediction.

But ALL teams get injuries so this is a universal issue that affects all teams. Of course, some teams have greater depth and can sustain injuries better, and some injuries are more devastating than others. Name any team/injured player from last year (e.g., Lowry, Embiid, Blake Griffin), and I'm sure we'll see the results in the W-L column.

It's not that I expected last year's Nets to not have injuries, it's that I didn't think the PG who drives team and doesn't have a history of injury would be the one to get injured.

[shakendfries]

Yes, we should have won more games.

But we didn't. No one cares who was injured. the record is the record, the sum of wins are the end result.

so coming out, expecting 40+ wins after a 20 win season is highly irrational.


like seriously CRAZY talk. absolute nutjob rhetroic based off of last season, and...reeks of an agenda.

On this specific point -- yes, for posterity, the record is the record.

But facts like injuries matter, especially for accurate assessments of where a team stands (and for when you're betting on the over under for next season!).

If we had no injuries last year and still won 20 games, I'd have a lot lower assessment of how many wins the Nets could get this year, maybe mid 20s.

Expecting 40+ wins after a 20 win season that had no injuries is highly irrational.

Expecting 40 wins after a 20 win season that should've been a 30 win season with no injuries, and a summer of solid offseason pickups, is optimistic.

expecting any team to be injury free isnt realistic. its odd when a team DOESNT lost a starter/rotation guy for at least some period of time, let alone the nets who had several guys with injury issues/risks coming in.

and that is no different this year. Levert has his foot issues, Allen couldnt compete in summer league, crabbe is coming off surgery, lin battled hamstring issues last year, RHJ missed most of his rookie year to injury, carroll has knee issues, harris had concussion issues to end his season... etc..

To be honest, the only real way we win 40 games is i russell has a breakout year 3 and becomes a harden impact type guy

which should not be expected since point guard is the toughest position to learn, and russell didn't really "develop" in LA

[MrDollarBills]

Yes, we should have won more games.

But we didn't. No one cares who was injured. the record is the record, the sum of wins are the end result.

so coming out, expecting 40+ wins after a 20 win season is highly irrational.


like seriously CRAZY talk. absolute nutjob rhetroic based off of last season, and...reeks of an agenda.

so, here's where we are, based on Roy Tarpley's last post.

"If everyone is healthy but the Nets only win like 30 games, it really means their talent sucks"

I'm glad that one of Jeremy Lin's fans FINALLY had the balls to finally step up to set up their narrative for the 2017-18 season. I was waiting for this. Your move , Lin fans.

There's a reason why I keep saying D'Angelo Russell is this team's franchise player. Its not to disprove our fellow poster Prok's assertion that Crabbe's contract value somehow makes him super important to the overall picture. In reality, Crabbe is just an overpaid piece that is expected to be groomed to be one of his weapons. a sniper.

The reason why I keep saying Dloading is the franchise player is to put a few certain sycophants on notice, especially when they say a bunch of garbage like what Roy Tarpley finally manned up to say about this team.

GO NETS!!!!!

I deserve this rant for the poor choice of words -- in hindsight, terribly stupid. Obviously, I don't think the talent sucks if we win 30 games. MDB, I've been extolling Levert, Allen, Dinwiddie (him even more than some longtime fans who were focused on Whitehead), and RHJ for a while now.

What I meant was that 30 wins means that the team can be more patient with the rebuild. My broader point about this season being important for whether it makes sense for Lin to stick around still stands.

I believe in the talent of the Nets, and that's why I predicted 40 wins this year.

Sorry for the unnecessary drama!

I could have refrained from being an ass hole myself with what I said last night. Yes, what you said really ticked me off because that put a seriously unfair and unrealistic expectation on this team and it was condescending to say well if they don't win 40+ games they don't have talent. But I could have also on my part not gone down that route.

So, I apologize.

[Roy Tarpley]

I could have refrained from being an ass hole myself with what I said last night. Yes, what you said really ticked me off because that put a seriously unfair and unrealistic expectation on this team and it was condescending to say well if they don't win 40+ games they don't have talent. But I could have also on my part not gone down that route.

So, I apologize.

No worries, everybody says stupid **** every once in a while, and I'm no exception. You're not the only one that called me out.

We all know that the team will have many exciting and painful moments starting in October, and the wait is grueling.

[MrDollarBills]

I could have refrained from being an ass hole myself with what I said last night. Yes, what you said really ticked me off because that put a seriously unfair and unrealistic expectation on this team and it was condescending to say well if they don't win 40+ games they don't have talent. But I could have also on my part not gone down that route.

So, I apologize.

No worries, everybody says stupid **** every once in a while, and I'm no exception. You're not the only one that called me out.

We all know that the team will have many exciting and painful moments starting in October, and the wait is grueling.

yes, indeed. lots of ups and down, and plenty of 3 point bombs

[Prokorov]

On this specific point -- yes, for posterity, the record is the record.

But facts like injuries matter, especially for accurate assessments of where a team stands (and for when you're betting on the over under for next season!).

If we had no injuries last year and still won 20 games, I'd have a lot lower assessment of how many wins the Nets could get this year, maybe mid 20s.

Expecting 40+ wins after a 20 win season that had no injuries is highly irrational.

Expecting 40 wins after a 20 win season that should've been a 30 win season with no injuries, and a summer of solid offseason pickups, is optimistic.

expecting any team to be injury free isnt realistic. its odd when a team DOESNT lost a starter/rotation guy for at least some period of time, let alone the nets who had several guys with injury issues/risks coming in.

and that is no different this year. Levert has his foot issues, Allen couldnt compete in summer league, crabbe is coming off surgery, lin battled hamstring issues last year, RHJ missed most of his rookie year to injury, carroll has knee issues, harris had concussion issues to end his season... etc..

To be honest, the only real way we win 40 games is i russell has a breakout year 3 and becomes a harden impact type guy

This is fair. We will definitely have injuries next year, and perhaps I'll adjust my prediction.

But ALL teams get injuries so this is a universal issue that affects all teams. Of course, some teams have greater depth and can sustain injuries better, and some injuries are more devastating than others. Name any team/injured player from last year (e.g., Lowry, Embiid, Blake Griffin), and I'm sure we'll see the results in the W-L column.

It's not that I expected last year's Nets to not have injuries, it's that I didn't think the PG who drives team and doesn't have a history of injury would be the one to get injured.

When you have high end talent and depth in starting/rotational talent you can sustain injury.

We dont have high end talent (our current roster has combined to make 0 all-star games). Outside of Lin and russell im not sure you can call anyone a legit average starting NBA player (young kids could certainly become that). and we dont have a ton of depth (although more this year then last, so i do think our floor is a bit higher then 20 losses).

A team like toronto could lose lowry and not miss much in W/L because derozon is a legit allstar and they had rotational depth. same with the clippers. losing griffin hurts, but they still had paul/reddick/CP3.

when you have a team like ours, you lose a starter and its going to make an impact in W/L... especially if its one of our 2 legit starting players. if russell or lin goes down, its not going to be pretty standings wise

[Hello Brooklyn]

I don't think it makes sense to compare last year's team to this years. Our team is completely different.

The starting lineup is entirely different. And a lot of our starters our now our bench players.

With that being said, this team is not talented enough to win 40 games. Its too young and inexperienced.

This is clearly a 30-35 win team.

If we get less then that then we are underachieving. If we get more than that we are overachieving.

[MrDollarBills]

30-35 wins is a trend upward.

as long as every young player ends up as a better player than he was in October, +30 wins or more, that is a success

this is not a sprint. we have to break this down into one step at a time. Marks is bringing in the talent. now its Kenny's job to maximize it for growth potential over the next 2-3 years.

[Prokorov]

I don't think it makes sense to compare last year's team to this years. Our team is completely different.

The starting lineup is entirely different. And a lot of our starters our now our bench players.

With that being said, this team is not talented enough to win 40 games. Its too young and inexperienced.

This is clearly a 30-35 win team.

If we get less then that then we are underachieving. If we get more than that we are overachieving.

i dont know that less then 30 wins is underachieving. like if we won 28 games that would be +8 from the prior year after losing your top scorer and bringing in tons of new young players and having alot of guys coming off injury.

i

[Prokorov]

30-35 wins is a trend upward.

as long as every young player ends up as a better player than he was in October, +30 wins or more, that is a success

this is not a sprint. we have to break this down into one step at a time. Marks is bringing in the talent. now its Kenny's job to maximize it for growth potential over the next 2-3 years.

yup... like marks said "we wont measure ourselves by wins"

i dont care if we win 5 games if russell/crabbe/levert all make big strides

[ChokeFasncists]

Risky? That response doesn't even make sense. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you have to shut it down and pretend you're still right. You do this stupid **** all the time. Stick to the lin thread, and stop trying to be a know it all.

Ummm.....I'm sorry, how doesn't it make sense? He played around 30 minutes coming off the bench in Portland. We could try doing that with him but do some small tweaks, it would be pretty risky to expect the result to be quite a bit better.

(Real glad I'm in agreement with Prok here so your effort of witchhunting is pretty moot, even tho he might be wary of it)

Because the argument you're trying to present revolves around Crabbe getting more shots and taking different kind of shots. That's how you utilize a player differently.

Giving him more minutes =/= better utilization

You trying to base the argument around him needing more minutes instead of more shots...Doesn't make sense.

To call it risky pisses me off, rightfully so.

Na, that's not what I'm saying. Your assumption that the Blazers didn't allow him to do anything except for shooting threes is shaky at best. He attempted 8.2 field goals per game and only 3.8 are from deep afterall. He also attempted 1.6 FT per. Then you suggested that if he's allowed to do stuff other than shooting threes he'd make a big leap from last season. That's indeed possible but the likelihood of it happening is not that high. It's in fact much less risky to actually start him and feature him with other starters.

I remember having to explain to you what a draft and stash pick, and you followed that up by suggesting the stash pick could contribute next year at the same level as Nikola Mitotic

I understand that you have a thing against salaries/cap consideration, but what I actually said was, I'm not sure it's worth bringing Mirotic, an RFA, meaning we'd have to overpay, over, when there's not necessarily a lot of PT for him if we're gonna try to develop RHJ as a starting PF. The 2nd round pick OTOH, can use that little PT to develop and might be able to contribute a bit.

I do understand what a draft and stash pick is, I just didn't believe that it should be set in stone. I believe that if the circumstances is right we should be able to bring him over, after so many roster moves and there being so few unrestricted free agents left.

And if you wanna say something, don't try and hide it behind size 60 text.

I was hiding it to be nice to you cuz you were nice to me privately. You still have credit.

[ChokeFasncists]

Hoping for the Nets to have a post-Marbury-like surprising run, but this board is having a Knix Marbury meltdown lol.

Ah, it's the time of the year, nothing happening

[Lamak]

We should get 30 and if health permits and we develop chemistry we could push 40, just don't think the coaches are gonna want to maximize minutes for wins.

[Paradise]

SK, LeVert and KD working out with Steve Nash.

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[MrDollarBills]

That's good.

Lets not read into this more than just 3 current pros working out with a HOF PG.

[Ror1997]

wouldn't call Sean Kilpatrick a HoF nor a PG, but to each his own.

[i-am-luv-sic]

^ the hof pg is nash...