melo thread 6 - Updt PG. 34 (Woj Tweets: NYK & HOU Reengage)!

[Thugger HBC]

Because he wants to play with his "friends", but he wants to be traded there so he doesn't lose any coin.

I respect that, but don't even try to disguise it as wanting to win. Blazers would actually pretty nice with melo.

[Sark]

According to CARMELO, his 5 year projected average is $39.6m, so we paid nearly double for Tim Hardaway Jr.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/tim-hardaway-jr/

[GONYK]

According to CARMELO, his 5 year projected average is $39.6m, so we paid nearly double for Tim Hardaway Jr.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/tim-hardaway-jr/

I'm not a fan of the THJr deal, but using the CARMELO to predict his value on this contract is kind of useless. It takes in his statistics as an aggregate, it doesn't factor in the clear improvement he showed over the 2nd half of last season. In fact, it statistically suppresses spikes.

So while I don't think he's worth $70m, he probably worth more than $40m, unless he regresses back to where he was at the beginning of last season.

[PeoplesChamp]

According to CARMELO, his 5 year projected average is $39.6m, so we paid nearly double for Tim Hardaway Jr.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/tim-hardaway-jr/

You mean the GM didn't consult with fivethityeight.com before doing the job he gets paid millions to do in real life? Fire him.

[Basketball1981]

the problem is that the Hardaway signing was a classic new GM move

When Phil and Mills were together one of the biggest disagreements they had was over Hardaway. Mills loved him, Phil didn't. Phil traded him. End of story.

Apparently not.

Because the first thing Mills did when Phil was out and Griffin said no was to do whatever it took to get THjr back and prove to Dolan that he, Mills, was right about him

so we bid against ourselves in a grossly flawed example of misguided thinning.

Mills said that the average salary for starting SGs in the league is 18mil. Its not. Its 16mil. But fine.
So he gave Hardaway the average SG salary.

Problem is that Hardaway isn't an average SG yet
hes currently a 1 way player at best and you shouldn't pay those guys like we did


So Mills, behind the scenes, is making a gamble on Hardaway to prove to Dolan that he's always been right about players.

But in doing so Mills made the worst moves because we overbid and, worst of all, gave a player option.

so at the end of the day either THjr underperforms his contract or he matches or outperforms it and then takes the player option and forces us to resign him or leaves


its one thing, a bad thing, to gamble on a player like we did
its another all together to gamble but have an option for that player to leave if he does reach the level were paying him for

unreal Mills

I would have literally given 10 And1s for this post. When I first heard about the signing I thought my friend way punking me. I was thinking that "things are chaing around the Knicks and there is no way any sane GM would give 71mill. to Hardaway. When I saw that it is true I hoped against all odds that Atlanta would match the contract. When it sunk in that there is no way Atlanta matches it I was like
The only positive here in case Hardaway indeed does not perform up to task then that will throw an incredibly bad light on Mills. It will go down as a massive blunder, ESPECIALLY if two years from now players like Irving signal their interest to join our team but we are stuck with an underperforming Hardaway.

@Nolayuprule: Have you seen Hardaway's defense last year? I admit I haven't paid much attention to it. What is it like? Is it really much improved? If Hardaway isn't at least a solid defender then there is literally no realistic chance for him to perform up to that 71mill. IMO. Even if he averages 18points a game---if he plays bad defense he'd still be underperforming and no team would touch that contract.

[NYG]

At this point, if the Knicks could get $19.5 Million of expiring contracts and Isaiah Hartenstein basically only getting a decent-ish prosect, $6 Million in cap space this off-season (signing Shabazz Muhammad for 1 year on a "prove it" deal?) and eliminating 'Melo's 2018-19 salary in full, would you take that deal?

[GONYK]

the problem is that the Hardaway signing was a classic new GM move

When Phil and Mills were together one of the biggest disagreements they had was over Hardaway. Mills loved him, Phil didn't. Phil traded him. End of story.

Apparently not.

Because the first thing Mills did when Phil was out and Griffin said no was to do whatever it took to get THjr back and prove to Dolan that he, Mills, was right about him

so we bid against ourselves in a grossly flawed example of misguided thinning.

Mills said that the average salary for starting SGs in the league is 18mil. Its not. Its 16mil. But fine.
So he gave Hardaway the average SG salary.

Problem is that Hardaway isn't an average SG yet
hes currently a 1 way player at best and you shouldn't pay those guys like we did


So Mills, behind the scenes, is making a gamble on Hardaway to prove to Dolan that he's always been right about players.

But in doing so Mills made the worst moves because we overbid and, worst of all, gave a player option.

so at the end of the day either THjr underperforms his contract or he matches or outperforms it and then takes the player option and forces us to resign him or leaves


its one thing, a bad thing, to gamble on a player like we did
its another all together to gamble but have an option for that player to leave if he does reach the level were paying him for

unreal Mills

I would have literally given 10 And1s for this post. When I first heard about the signing I thought my friend way punking me. I was thinking that "things are chaing around the Knicks and there is no way any sane GM would give 71mill. to Hardaway. When I saw that it is true I hoped against all odds that Atlanta would match the contract. When it sunk in that there is no way Atlanta matches it I was like
The only positive here in case Hardaway indeed does not perform up to task then that will throw an incredibly bad light on Mills. It will go down as a massive blunder, ESPECIALLY if two years from now players like Irving signal their interest to join our team but we are stuck with an underperforming Hardaway.

@Nolayuprule: Have you seen Hardaway's defense last year? I admit I haven't paid much attention to it. What is it like? Is it really much improved? If Hardaway isn't at least a solid defender then there is literally no realistic chance for him to perform up to that 71mill. IMO. Even if he averages 18points a game---if he plays bad defense he'd still be underperforming and no team would touch that contract.

THJr's defense was better, but it still wasn't good. He can be hidden in a good team defensive scheme though.

[HarthorneWingo]

I blah blah lorem ipsum blah blah.

_____ Happy Birthday, Harthorne Wingo! ______


And I had no idea you were Mango Wingo, too!

That's Mrs. Hornacek's pet name for me.

Thanks for reminding shammgod about my birthday!

[Basketball1981]

LOL...any chance anyone of you is that fan? I swear it was close to how I felt when I found out about the signing:

Watch on YouTube

[BKlutch]

Because he wants to play with his "friends", but he wants to be traded there so he doesn't lose any coin.

I respect that, but don't even try to disguise it as wanting to win. Blazers would actually pretty nice with melo.

Queen:

Listen all you people, come gather round
I gotta get me a game plan, gotta shake you to the ground
Just give me what I know is mine,
People do you hear me, just give me the sign,
It ain't much I'm asking, if you want the truth
Here's to the future for the dreams of youth,
I want it all, I want it all, I want it all, and I want it now,
I want it all, I want it all, I want it all, and I want it now,

...

[Basketball1981]

the problem is that the Hardaway signing was a classic new GM move

When Phil and Mills were together one of the biggest disagreements they had was over Hardaway. Mills loved him, Phil didn't. Phil traded him. End of story.

Apparently not.

Because the first thing Mills did when Phil was out and Griffin said no was to do whatever it took to get THjr back and prove to Dolan that he, Mills, was right about him

so we bid against ourselves in a grossly flawed example of misguided thinning.

Mills said that the average salary for starting SGs in the league is 18mil. Its not. Its 16mil. But fine.
So he gave Hardaway the average SG salary.

Problem is that Hardaway isn't an average SG yet
hes currently a 1 way player at best and you shouldn't pay those guys like we did


So Mills, behind the scenes, is making a gamble on Hardaway to prove to Dolan that he's always been right about players.

But in doing so Mills made the worst moves because we overbid and, worst of all, gave a player option.

so at the end of the day either THjr underperforms his contract or he matches or outperforms it and then takes the player option and forces us to resign him or leaves


its one thing, a bad thing, to gamble on a player like we did
its another all together to gamble but have an option for that player to leave if he does reach the level were paying him for

unreal Mills

I would have literally given 10 And1s for this post. When I first heard about the signing I thought my friend way punking me. I was thinking that "things are chaing around the Knicks and there is no way any sane GM would give 71mill. to Hardaway. When I saw that it is true I hoped against all odds that Atlanta would match the contract. When it sunk in that there is no way Atlanta matches it I was like
The only positive here in case Hardaway indeed does not perform up to task then that will throw an incredibly bad light on Mills. It will go down as a massive blunder, ESPECIALLY if two years from now players like Irving signal their interest to join our team but we are stuck with an underperforming Hardaway.

@Nolayuprule: Have you seen Hardaway's defense last year? I admit I haven't paid much attention to it. What is it like? Is it really much improved? If Hardaway isn't at least a solid defender then there is literally no realistic chance for him to perform up to that 71mill. IMO. Even if he averages 18points a game---if he plays bad defense he'd still be underperforming and no team would touch that contract.

THJr's defense was better, but it still wasn't good. He can be hidden in a good team defensive scheme though.

Thanks for weighing in. Well, that's not good news at all. If he is still a weak defender then there is literally no chance in my book that he can justify this contract as long a nothing ridiculous happens (like him blowing up for 24points a night). 18points per game along with 3rebounds/3assists and weak defense is not equal 71mill. No matter how you slice it.

[HarthorneWingo]

LOL...any chance anyone of you is that fan? I swear it was close to how I felt when I found out about the signing:

Watch on YouTube

Jerome from Manhattan?

[HarthorneWingo]

I'm wondering why was he surprised at the offer he received from the Knicks. Did he feel he was worth it, or just surprised that the team that traded him was the one to put in the bid to get him back. Either scenario is not a good one.

All we can do is hope for the best, he's here now. The issue is that the Knicks don't have the things that helped him become better.

Our coach doesn't demand it, he's certainly not gonna get bench or sent to the d-league. we don't have the schemes nor the pieces on the court. Who is gonna hold him accountable on the defensive end? Melo?

One journalist even said he had sources that said that Hardaway thought the contract offer was crazy. I have no clue whether that is true or not but either way it is not a good look. What irks me about this contract is that the situation this time was so much different from the past. You could even argue that past GMs felt at least some type of pressure to make some sort of move to appease fans and rebuild on the fly etc. This time around it seemed that the whole fanbase and media were hoping for a tank and preservation of the salary cap---so Mills should have felt no pressure at all to make any questionable moves. Yet it took him only a couple days to burst our bubbles and hand the knick fanbase another signing were you scratch your head over.

If Hardaway can't average 20points along with good defense than we won't be able to trade him at any point during the next 4 years.

If Hardaway can average 12pts, 6rbs and at least 3ass a game on this team, it would consider it a great season for him. I really DON'T see him getting the touches to average 20pts a game. Not unless he get off the a heatwave of a start and the team takes note. We just need double digits and more of an all around game from him.

Unless we trade Lee.

[HarthorneWingo]

Its easier to stomach getting those salary dump contracts in exchange for picks if we werent saddled with existing huge long bad contract (Noah) and a guy who has yet to prove he is deserving of his big contract (Timmy)

I'm have hope that the Hardaway contract will break for us. From what I've read, he's working really hard and looking to take his game to the next level. Also gotta give him credit for the work he put in Atlanta and the good job they did coaching him. Plus, he comes from good stock, as they say.

HW, most players work really hard and are looking to take their game to the next level.

Let's hope your hope is rewarded, because we are stuck with him for the next 4 years

I know, many try not all succeed. But we've seen significant improvement from him last season, no?

[HarthorneWingo]

Its easier to stomach getting those salary dump contracts in exchange for picks if we werent saddled with existing huge long bad contract (Noah) and a guy who has yet to prove he is deserving of his big contract (Timmy)

I'm have hope that the Hardaway contract will break for us. From what I've read, he's working really hard and looking to take his game to the next level. Also gotta give him credit for the work he put in Atlanta and the good job they did coaching him. Plus, he comes from good stock, as they say.

HW, most players work really hard and are looking to take their game to the next level.

Let's hope your hope is rewarded, because we are stuck with him for the next 4 years

I know, many try not all succeed. But with THJ, we saw significant improvement from him last season, no?

[BKlutch]

I blah blah lorem ipsum blah blah.

_____ Happy Birthday, Harthorne Wingo! ______


And I had no idea you were Mango Wingo, too!

That's Mrs. Hornacek's pet name for me.

Thanks for reminding shammgod about my birthday!

Don't worry about Shamm ... you've got Mrs. Horny to think about!

[malik959]

According to CARMELO, his 5 year projected average is $39.6m, so we paid nearly double for Tim Hardaway Jr.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/tim-hardaway-jr/

You mean the GM didn't consult with fivethityeight.com before doing the job he gets paid millions to do in real life? Fire him.

Mike Conley (non All Star) is making 150-200mil yet we complain about 70? Stars are now making 200mil so 70mil is acceptable for a starter. We've got to accept the fact that players are getting paid more now than in 2000 where H2O was getting 100m. Back than THJ would have been a 5 for 5 player and in 2013 he would be considered $10 for 4yr player. Right now he's making slightly more per year than what we gave Afyearo and Im sorry he seemed to be the better player than.

[Jalen Bluntson]

You guys know there's a Tim Hardaway thread...right?

[BKlutch]

According to CARMELO, his 5 year projected average is $39.6m, so we paid nearly double for Tim Hardaway Jr.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/tim-hardaway-jr/

You mean the GM didn't consult with fivethityeight.com before doing the job he gets paid millions to do in real life? Fire him.

Mike Conley (non All Star) is making 150-200mil yet we complain about 70? Stars are now making 200mil so 70mil is acceptable for a starter. We've got to accept the fact that players are getting paid more now than in 2000 where H2O was getting 100m. Back than THJ would have been a 5 for 5 player and in 2013 he would be considered $10 for 4yr player. Right now he's making slightly more per year than what we gave Afyearo and Im sorry he seemed to be the better player than.

Mike Conley is making 150 - 200 mil?

OMG, I'd give anything to watch him play!
- or -
Maybe I'd turn on the game if I had nothing better.
- or -
If he's not playing against the Knicks, nah, I wouldn't bother watching him.

[Jeffrey]

I wonder if Melo would okay with Portland if Portland gives him an extension for an additional 3 years. Cleveland is not going to give him a fat extension and I doubt Morey will do the same. I'm sure he is looking for his next contract.