Carmelo Anthony to OKC for Enes Kanter, Doug McDermott and a draft pick

[ThunderBolt]

Russ > Steph
George < KD
Melo > Klay
Adams < Draymond
Roberson < Iggy
PP > Zaza
Felton vs. Livingston is a wash

This is probably the best roster the Thunder/Sonics have had since the 1993-1996 era, we might still be behind the GSW but not a lot. What I like about our chances is that everyone on our roster is hungry and there is nothing to lose.

I would say it’s more like
Russ = Steph (depending on who you prefer)
George < KD
Melo < Klay
Adams < Green

However it’s very close. Potentially any one of our guys is good enough to get the better of the other guy. I just don’t think we can do it 4 out of 7 games.

[Ontario]

However it’s very close. Potentially any one of our guys is good enough to get the better of the other guy. I just don’t think we can do it 4 out of 7 games.

It was the last sentence that was the clincher however.

[spearsy23]

Green vs George is a debatable topic, personally I think George is better by the tiniest of amounts. Either way though their third best player is extremely close to our second, while their two mvp's are better and on par with ours.

That's ignoring how well they fit and klay Thompson. Their spacing, defense, coaching, and talent are all anywhere from a step (talent) to a mile (coaching) better than ours. We're the cheap discount version.

[spearsy23]

It will be interesting in head to head matches how having George to guard cupcake helps though. Robes just wasn't long enough to have any effect on him. Anybody have career numbers for them h2h?

[bondom34]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/9/24/16357620/paul-george-thunder-warriors

[Funcrusher]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/9/24/16357620/paul-george-thunder-warriors

THIS. So. This.

Like I said, PG's value is in doing many different things very well. He's not explosive at offense, but he gets you buckets at a steady rate, is efficient, particularly as a volume 3pt shooter. He's defensively sound, a great team defender. The only thing with him is that he's more of a traditional wing in that he can't run an offense by himself. He needs a good point guard and spacing situation to set him up to be most effective. But at the same time, he's not terrible one-on-one either, so his game provides many options.

With Draymond, he's a beast defensively but in terms of offense he's merely a pass first point-forward that can't create for himself, and gets buckets almost purely out of Curry/Thompson/KD drawing so much attention from defenders.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Hey Kizz, I'm guessing this weekend has moved the Thunder to 8th in the West in your eyes?

They are still last in the West. They'll miss the playoffs by 30 games!

P.S. I gave a real answer in another thread. Short version is they are in the fight for 2-4 with Houston and SA. Clearly a 2nd round team and jumped Minny by a significant amount. I'm not calling them a lock for the 2nd seed, but I'm not going to argue against their ability to be the 2nd seed.

[slick_watts]

i can respect the idea (read: idea..!) that paul george's utility could be increased somewhat on our team as constructed, without some of the pressures he had to take on with the pacers in recent years.

however, i still regard this comparison between him and draymond green as disingenuous and, honestly, ridiculous. this notion that because paul george had a broader set of skills makes him better than draymond, seemingly irrespective of the degree of those skills? absurd.

is paul george better than james harden? james harden is similar to draymond greeen in the following sense. one of the best, most productive players in the league on one side of the ball. singularly dominant on offense. less effective on defense, where some may consider him a liability for his position (which is a stretch in draymond's case, obviously, since draymond is far from an offensive liability. but forget that for now). george has a broader set of skills. is he superior to harden?

of course not! this favorable comparison with draymond green is only possible if you diminish green's impact on defense where he is quite objectively one of the top 5-8 players on that side of the court. as harden is on offense.

lastly, we cannot ignore the changes to george's game since his leg injury. that has had an impact.

[spearsy23]

i can respect the idea (read: idea..!) that paul george's utility could be increased somewhat on our team as constructed, without some of the pressures he had to take on with the pacers in recent years.

however, i still regard this comparison between him and draymond green as disingenuous and, honestly, ridiculous. this notion that because paul george had a broader set of skills makes him better than draymond, seemingly irrespective of the degree of those skills? absurd.

is paul george better than james harden? james harden is similar to draymond greeen in the following sense. one of the best, most productive players in the league on one side of the ball. singularly dominant on offense. less effective on defense, where some may consider him a liability for his position (which is a stretch in draymond's case, obviously, since draymond is far from an offensive liability. but forget that for now). george has a broader set of skills. is he superior to harden?

of course not! this favorable comparison with draymond green is only possible if you diminish green's impact on defense where he is quite objectively one of the top 5-8 players on that side of the court. as harden is on offense.

lastly, we cannot ignore the changes to george's game since his leg injury. that has had an impact.

How effective would each player be if you switched their roles? Green benefits massively from playing with the two greatest shooters of all time (and now Durant), he has limited responsibility offensively which in turn helps him defensively (unless you believe Kawhi suddenly lost the ability to be an elite defender this year). Calling him a playmaker would be disingenuous. He's a good passer but doesnt create for himself or others and has no real utility as a scorer. Frankly, I could average 4 assists per game playing in his role. That said, I'm still willing to concede he's on par with or even slightly better than George, but it's impossible to compare the two and their impact when one has been first option aand the other has had a plethora of team advantages.

[slick_watts]

How effective would each player be if you switched their roles?

how is this relevant? they are completely different players. how would paul george compare to rudy gobert if you changed their roles?

Green benefits massively from playing with the two greatest shooters of all time (and now Durant), he has limited responsibility offensively which in turn helps him defensively (unless you believe Kawhi suddenly lost the ability to be an elite defender this year).

green benefits massively from playing with those guys because kawhi wasn't elite defensively this year? this straw man doesn't even make sense.

Calling him a playmaker would be disingenuous. He's a good passer but doesnt create for himself or others and has no real utility as a scorer.

green led the warriors in assists last season. other than lebron, i would guess he's the only non-guard to do that this year. he does not have much utility as a scorer, agreed.

Frankly, I could average 4 assists per game playing in his role.

more nonsense.

That said, I'm still willing to concede he's on par with or even slightly better than George, but it's impossible to compare the two and their impact when one has been first option aand the other has had a plethora of team advantages.

then i guess it's impossible to compare any player to any other player because of team differences. glad we got that sorted out. when can we expect this board to shut down?

(of course we can compare the two)

[spearsy23]

How effective would each player be if you switched their roles?

how is this relevant? they are completely different players. how would paul george compare to rudy gobert if you changed their roles?

You're asking 'How is role relevant when comparing two players'? Obviously role and situation have an effect on player impact.

And reversing George and Gobert's role would work out fairly well for George because he's a much more capable defender than gobert is offensively.

Green benefits massively from playing with the two greatest shooters of all time (and now Durant), he has limited responsibility offensively which in turn helps him defensively (unless you believe Kawhi suddenly lost the ability to be an elite defender this year).

green benefits massively from playing with those guys because kawhi wasn't elite defensively this year? this straw man doesn't even make sense.

I refuse to believe someone as smart as you can be as dense as you pretend to be during discussions.

Calling him a playmaker would be disingenuous. He's a good passer but doesnt create for himself or others and has no real utility as a scorer.

green led the warriors in assists last season. other than lebron, i would guess he's the only non-guard to do that this year. he does not have much utility as a scorer, agreed.

It makes sense that the guy whose main skill is passing, and is surrounded by Durant/Curry/Klay would lead the team in assists. That has no bearing on what I said.

Frankly, I could average 4 assists per game playing in his role.

more nonsense.

Nah.

That said, I'm still willing to concede he's on par with or even slightly better than George, but it's impossible to compare the two and their impact when one has been first option aand the other has had a plethora of team advantages.

then i guess it's impossible to compare any player to any other player because of team differences. glad we got that sorted out. when can we expect this board to shut down?

(of course we can compare the two)

"The two and their impact." In other words impact stats are useless when comparing vastly different players/roles/situations.

[Pillendreher]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/9/24/16357620/paul-george-thunder-warriors

Good article.

[M2J]

Don't sleep on Melo based on last season. The Knicks has been in rebuilding mode forever. He took a step back in scoring to make way for Rose and Kristaps. Still knowing they weren't winning anything. Then everyone around him dropped like flies and Phil Jackson torpedoed him. I think NY will miss him, because he made KP7 much better.

Klay and Dray couldn't stay in the court in the Olympics with Melo last summer. When motivated and with actual help as they have, he's on another level. He's never going to be a offensive player you worry about disappearances as they are. Defensively, he will not lead you, but can and has fit into a good defensive situation. He can man up and hold his own. The knock has been the inconsistent rotations in the paint. Will need to shore that up

[CoachD]

Will he come off the bench?

I was just saying this to a buddy of mine. He'd be far more effective off the bench, and they could start Patterson who would be more of a defensive quarterback and spot shooter in the starting lineup.

I like:
Westbrook-Roberson-George-Patterson-Adams
6th- Carmelo

More than:
Westbrook-Roberson-George-Carmelo-Adams
6th- Patterson

But they'll all get minutes together so I guess it doesn't matter too much.

Look at Patterson's career numbers as a starter. He's MUCH MUCH more useful versus second unit guys

[Balkman32]

Really wondering what the bench looks like. We know presti would prefer Melo off the bench, and that's really the best place for his iso-star game, but it's obviously up to Melo.

Melo is the starting 4 on this team. You sub him out early and the 2nd unit runs through him instead of Kanter.

[hardenASG13]

Melo definately is still a starter, and is underrated as a rebounder especially on offense.

As far as the green vs George debate, if anything it's close, i give the clear edge to George. He's better at shooting, scoring, ball handling, and perimeter defense.....green is better at rebounding and interior D. He facilitates in a system where guys shoot 3s like video games, backdoor cuts always come open, and regularly make tough shots in an extremely spread floor. It's not like he creates a ton or draws much defensive attention, really at all. Stop trying to be the smartest man in the room all the time PG is amazing.

[Patches Perry]

We're underrating how well the Warriors pieces fit together also.

Curry draws the most attention (or, gravity) of any player since Shaq.
Durant benefits from that, and is already probably the best 1 on 1 offensive scorer in the league.
Draymond Green is the best defensive anchor in the league
Klay Thompson is always working in the background and only needs the ball in his hands for 30 seconds of a game to drop 30 points

Those 4 coexist together without stepping on each other at all. We can match Thunder players 1 for 1 on a talent basis, but Westbrook is ball dominant, Carmelo is ball dominant, and I'm not sure how happy George will be with the leftovers. There is still a lot of overlap between OKC top 4 players.

I don't think this trade puts us anywhere near the Warriors. I'm not even sure it's possible at this point without putting LeBron and Kawhi on the same team.

That said - I like the trade, and I feel like motivated George and Carmelo can be devastating offensive players while also being very good defensively, with the versatility to guard bigger or smaller players and switch a lot. Donovan really loves this style, as evidence by his insistence on switching big guys onto James Harden for the beginning of the Houston series. Donovan will love full switch capability again.

I am also looking forward to what this trade and the Paul George trade does for Steven Adams. He was expected to be too much of a scorer last year, but now they can send him to the boards on both ends and let him do his damage. He is probably one of the top 3 hardest guys to keep off the glass in the league. On a team with 3 top tier offensive options, that's going to be valuable and will create more shot opportunities. I wouldn't be surprised if he led the league in offensive rebounds next season.

[Balkman32]

Melo can run the 2nd unit. He can make sure the thunder dont go on 0-7 runs while we try to rest Westbrook for 5 actual minutes not gametime minutes.

[hardenASG13]

We're underrating how well the Warriors pieces fit together also.

Curry draws the most attention (or, gravity) of any player since Shaq.
Durant benefits from that, and is already probably the best 1 on 1 offensive scorer in the league.
Draymond Green is the best defensive anchor in the league
Klay Thompson is always working in the background and only needs the ball in his hands for 30 seconds of a game to drop 30 points

Those 4 coexist together without stepping on each other at all. We can match Thunder players 1 for 1 on a talent basis, but Westbrook is ball dominant, Carmelo is ball dominant, and I'm not sure how happy George will be with the leftovers. There is still a lot of overlap between OKC top 4 players.

I don't think this trade puts us anywhere near the Warriors. I'm not even sure it's possible at this point without putting LeBron and Kawhi on the same team.

That said - I like the trade, and I feel like motivated George and Carmelo can be devastating offensive players while also being very good defensively, with the versatility to guard bigger or smaller players and switch a lot. Donovan really loves this style, as evidence by his insistence on switching big guys onto James Harden for the beginning of the Houston series. Donovan will love full switch capability again.

I am also looking forward to what this trade and the Paul George trade does for Steven Adams. He was expected to be too much of a scorer last year, but now they can send him to the boards on both ends and let him do his damage. He is probably one of the top 3 hardest guys to keep off the glass in the league. On a team with 3 top tier offensive options, that's going to be valuable and will create more shot opportunities. I wouldn't be surprised if he led the league in offensive rebounds next season.

No doubt the warriors pieces fit together perfectly. Many good points. I do think at this stage, melo will be fine with, and effective at, playing off the ball. He can score off the ball, in bunches, and has been toiling away in the outdated triangle.

As for Adams, yep, pressure is on. He's not a young, whatever he gives is a bonus, center anymore. He's getting 25 mill per year, and needs to be a consistent force on defense and the glass every night. Offensively, roll aggressively, catch lobs, and dump offs. If he can't bring it consistently, they should trade him for a better piece if possible, even a short term contract or older player since they are all in on this year. If the big 3 leave, do you really want adams, who at best really should be the 4th best player on a contender (which he is until he proves he can be better than melo). That's not an ideal piece to have around at 25 mill per season if they go into a rebuild, as he isn't a good top 2 player on a given team.

[Pillendreher]

Let's be real: The best chance any team has is a torn ACL for Curry or any other injury that keeps him out of the Playoffs. Otherwise, we would need a miracle.