Carmelo Anthony to OKC for Enes Kanter, Doug McDermott and a draft pick

[Balkman32]

Y'all are really talking like we didn't just hold up two teams at gunpoint.

Be prepared, put the offers on the table, and capitalize when the opportunity presents itself.

paul george was one thing, but i don't think carmelo would have ever been a sam presti target at any price in years past.

Woj said Presti has been after Melo for the past year or two.

That's pretty interesting. I wonder if Kanter was always the return piece coming back. I would think he would have been since the salaries are closer.

[Pillendreher]

I'm not sure where a player crosses the line into being transcendent vs. being non-transcendent, but Westbrook has led the league in scoring twice. Westbrook averaged 31.6ppg last year, of which only maybe a dozen guys in league have ever done, and Curry/Harden aren't one of them..

In the 3PT era, there have been 13 guys who have averaged 33 points or more per 100 poss. for their career:

Dantley
Gervin
Wilkins
Jordan
Malone
O'Neal
Iverson
Bryant
Wade
Anthony
James
Durant
Westbrook

I'd say that's pretty good company.

That said, I do think all three OKC guys should share scoring responsibility nearly equally. Westbrook should be looking to create for others primarily, and picking his spots as a scorer (fast breaks, scoring droughts, etc).

Agreed.

[wizkid27]

Hey guys, what's up? It's been a while since I've dropped in to post... swing through to read what you guys are saying every now and then.

Related to this transcendent scorer discussion, I know it's not completely black and white, but one thing that summarizes what people are saying is the effective FG% of the top scorers. I looked for anybody that averaged > 22 ppg last season (chose 22 to include all 3 of our stars).

http://bkref.com/tiny/pJAgV

All 3 of George, Russ and Melo are in the bottom half of eFG% for guys that averaged more than 22ppg - with George being the only one even close to the middle of the pack. By comparison, KD, LeBron, and Curry are the top 3, and almost a whole 10% higher than Russ and Melo.

[Pillendreher]

Hey guys, what's up? It's been a while since I've dropped in to post... swing through to read what you guys are saying every now and then.

Related to this transcendent scorer discussion, I know it's not completely black and white, but one thing that summarizes what people are saying is the effective FG% of the top scorers. I looked for anybody that averaged > 22 ppg last season (chose 22 to include all 3 of our stars).

http://bkref.com/tiny/pJAgV

All 3 of George, Russ and Melo are in the bottom half of eFG% for guys that averaged more than 22ppg - with George being the only one even close to the middle of the pack. By comparison, KD, LeBron, and Curry are the top 3, and almost a whole 10% higher than Russ and Melo.

To be fair, Russ' role last season was historically unique (or at least the way he went about it ) and Melo was meh all season long. George also picked it up late in the season.

I get what you're saying tho. Westbrook will never be the most efficient player in the league.

[oken]

Great move all around. Not as great as my expectation of seeing Lebron in OKC jersey but still great.

Also I guess Enes will be happier to play in a rebuilding team and live in NYC. He was too committed to his political activities lately and MYC media will give him the media exposure more than he requested.

That was a win-win for everybody. Even the Knicks fans will appreciate it later in the season i guess.

[wizkid27]

To be fair, Russ' role last season was historically unique (or at least the way he went about it ) and Melo was meh all season long. George also picked it up late in the season.

I get what you're saying tho. Westbrook will never be the most efficient player in the league.

Yep, I agree. I'm not trying to be down on those guys. I'm really excited about the season and to see how they come together. Just trying to explain the gap between the true top level ultra-efficient scorers from last season. It obviously is situational and can change year to year.

That said, if you look at the previous year - which had Melo "happier" and Russ playing alongside KD - it's almost identical, other than George being a little worse.

http://bkref.com/tiny/KhEDp

[Rotten Apple]

Hey guys, what's up? It's been a while since I've dropped in to post... swing through to read what you guys are saying every now and then.

Related to this transcendent scorer discussion, I know it's not completely black and white, but one thing that summarizes what people are saying is the effective FG% of the top scorers. I looked for anybody that averaged > 22 ppg last season (chose 22 to include all 3 of our stars).

http://bkref.com/tiny/pJAgV

All 3 of George, Russ and Melo are in the bottom half of eFG% for guys that averaged more than 22ppg - with George being the only one even close to the middle of the pack. By comparison, KD, LeBron, and Curry are the top 3, and almost a whole 10% higher than Russ and Melo.

To be fair, Russ' role last season was historically unique (or at least the way he went about it ) and Melo was meh all season long. George also picked it up late in the season.

I get what you're saying tho. Westbrook will never be the most efficient player in the league.

Melo was not meh all season. He had a terrible slump which had an effect on his overall numbers.

Context baby. You gotta watch the games to see it.

[Pillendreher]

Hey guys, what's up? It's been a while since I've dropped in to post... swing through to read what you guys are saying every now and then.

Related to this transcendent scorer discussion, I know it's not completely black and white, but one thing that summarizes what people are saying is the effective FG% of the top scorers. I looked for anybody that averaged > 22 ppg last season (chose 22 to include all 3 of our stars).

http://bkref.com/tiny/pJAgV

All 3 of George, Russ and Melo are in the bottom half of eFG% for guys that averaged more than 22ppg - with George being the only one even close to the middle of the pack. By comparison, KD, LeBron, and Curry are the top 3, and almost a whole 10% higher than Russ and Melo.

To be fair, Russ' role last season was historically unique (or at least the way he went about it ) and Melo was meh all season long. George also picked it up late in the season.

I get what you're saying tho. Westbrook will never be the most efficient player in the league.

Melo was not meh all season. He had a terrible slump which had an effect on his overall numbers.

Context baby. You gotta watch the games to see it.

Sorry mate. I saw him when we played the Knicks. Tough enough for me to catch every Thunder game with the different timezones

When did his slump happen? Looks to me like his offensive performance got worse as the season went on:



Till January 31st: 54.3 TS% / 49.4 eFG% / 110 ORtG
After January 31st: 52.0 TS% / 47.6 eFG% / 103 ORtG

[Rotten Apple]

To be fair, Russ' role last season was historically unique (or at least the way he went about it ) and Melo was meh all season long. George also picked it up late in the season.

I get what you're saying tho. Westbrook will never be the most efficient player in the league.

Melo was not meh all season. He had a terrible slump which had an effect on his overall numbers.

Context baby. You gotta watch the games to see it.

Sorry mate. I saw him when we played the Knicks. Tough enough for me to catch every Thunder game with the different timezones

When did his slump happen? Looks to me like his offensive performance got worse as the season went on:



Till January 31st: 54.3 TS% / 49.4 eFG% / 110 ORtG
After January 31st: 52.0 TS% / 47.6 eFG% / 103 ORtG

Again you're not using context. Just posting advanced stats doesnt tell you anything.

Basketball games aren't played on excel spreadsheets.

I watched every game, I can't go into context with you if you didn't.

[ThunderBolt]

Melo was not meh all season. He had a terrible slump which had an effect on his overall numbers.

Context baby. You gotta watch the games to see it.

Sorry mate. I saw him when we played the Knicks. Tough enough for me to catch every Thunder game with the different timezones

When did his slump happen? Looks to me like his offensive performance got worse as the season went on:



Till January 31st: 54.3 TS% / 49.4 eFG% / 110 ORtG
After January 31st: 52.0 TS% / 47.6 eFG% / 103 ORtG

Again you're not using context. Just posting advanced stats doesnt tell you anything.

Basketball games aren't played on excel spreadsheets.

I watched every game, I can't go into context with you if you didn't.

You can’t explain when a slump happened because someone posted a spreadsheet that doesn’t agree with your statement?

[Pillendreher]

Melo was not meh all season. He had a terrible slump which had an effect on his overall numbers.

Context baby. You gotta watch the games to see it.

Sorry mate. I saw him when we played the Knicks. Tough enough for me to catch every Thunder game with the different timezones

When did his slump happen? Looks to me like his offensive performance got worse as the season went on:



Till January 31st: 54.3 TS% / 49.4 eFG% / 110 ORtG
After January 31st: 52.0 TS% / 47.6 eFG% / 103 ORtG

Again you're not using context. Just posting advanced stats doesnt tell you anything.

Basketball games aren't played on excel spreadsheets.

I watched every game, I can't go into context with you if you didn't.

Huh? Since I didn't watch the Knicks (Why on earth would I), I can only go by what the stats tell me.

[tmorgan]

Awesome and interesting discussion, fellas.

Here's your burning question (with a lead in) for the season, in my eyes:

Barring horrific turnover numbers or a major difference in pace, every NBA team gets about the same number of shots. Shots are currency, if you will, and how you spend that currency is a big issue for every team. Last year, with an ugly roster around him, Russ got to go on a spending binge. 24 shots a game, even higher than in 14-15 when KD missed most of the season. He led the league by 370 attempts and was second in FT attempts as well. All Russ, all the time.

So, now that two other accomplished scorers have joined the squad, what changes? I've seen some discussion in this thread already, but I'm still really curious about how this plays out. Last year, Melo got 19 shots a game and PG13 got 18. I'd think you definitely stagger the minutes to make sure two of them are on the floor most of the time... or do you give Melo free reign against second units instead? Melo loves his perimeter isos, and George has started to slide that way, too... can that still happen?

Looking forward to the season.

[bondom34]

Shots wise I'd say PG steps back the most. First I think fit wise it's the guy who is most likely as he can play off ball more and better defensively and second from all I've heard he's the most passive personality. I'd think Melo and Russ take a step back as well, we've seen Russ next to another star, and Melo played later career with Iverson. I feel pretty good these 3 all have that in them.

[QPR]

I'd be interested by what criteria LeBron and Harden are "transcendent" scorers but Melo isn't.

Curry and Durant I can understand as they can score heavily playing off the ball. LeBron and Harden however are high usage scorers just like Melo is.

[Rotten Apple]

Sorry mate. I saw him when we played the Knicks. Tough enough for me to catch every Thunder game with the different timezones

When did his slump happen? Looks to me like his offensive performance got worse as the season went on:



Till January 31st: 54.3 TS% / 49.4 eFG% / 110 ORtG
After January 31st: 52.0 TS% / 47.6 eFG% / 103 ORtG

Again you're not using context. Just posting advanced stats doesnt tell you anything.

Basketball games aren't played on excel spreadsheets.

I watched every game, I can't go into context with you if you didn't.

You can’t explain when a slump happened because someone posted a spreadsheet that doesn’t agree with your statement?

I'm not about to go through a game log to find the exact time, I'm telling from the experience of actually watching the games he played.

Again these excel spreadsheets are for folks who don't watch games but want to sound smart.

[Rotten Apple]

Sorry mate. I saw him when we played the Knicks. Tough enough for me to catch every Thunder game with the different timezones

When did his slump happen? Looks to me like his offensive performance got worse as the season went on:



Till January 31st: 54.3 TS% / 49.4 eFG% / 110 ORtG
After January 31st: 52.0 TS% / 47.6 eFG% / 103 ORtG

Again you're not using context. Just posting advanced stats doesnt tell you anything.

Basketball games aren't played on excel spreadsheets.

I watched every game, I can't go into context with you if you didn't.

Huh? Since I didn't watch the Knicks (Why on earth would I), I can only go by what the stats tell me.

Stats give you an idea of what happened, his efficiency has always suffered due to slumps because he's always had to carry the offense in New York. Melo also takes bad shots, usually the difference between his career FG% and a FG% that stats geeks would deem efficient.

[spearsy23]

I'd be interested by what criteria LeBron and Harden are "transcendent" scorers but Melo isn't.

Curry and Durant I can understand as they can score heavily playing off the ball. LeBron and Harden however are high usage scorers just like Melo is.

Career 2 ppg more on 4% higher true shooting for Lebron.

And since becoming a starter Harden is at 27 ppg and 60+ ts%.

Even ignoring that Melo is in a different phase of his career Lebron and Harden are better scorers than prime Melo.

[QPR]

I'd be interested by what criteria LeBron and Harden are "transcendent" scorers but Melo isn't.

Curry and Durant I can understand as they can score heavily playing off the ball. LeBron and Harden however are high usage scorers just like Melo is.

Career 2 ppg more on 4% higher true shooting for Lebron.

And since becoming a starter Harden is at 27 ppg and 60+ ts%.

Even ignoring that Melo is in a different phase of his career Lebron and Harden are better scorers than prime Melo.

Are they though?

Harden takes 10 threes and 10 FTs a game so his TS% is always going to be higher.

Maybe I am looking at it from more a skill set point of view. Melo has never been a volume three shooter or a huge FT shooter (which granted are elements to a great scorer) but his ability to create one on one and score in bunches has always been close to the best in the league.

[spearsy23]

I'd be interested by what criteria LeBron and Harden are "transcendent" scorers but Melo isn't.

Curry and Durant I can understand as they can score heavily playing off the ball. LeBron and Harden however are high usage scorers just like Melo is.

Career 2 ppg more on 4% higher true shooting for Lebron.

And since becoming a starter Harden is at 27 ppg and 60+ ts%.

Even ignoring that Melo is in a different phase of his career Lebron and Harden are better scorers than prime Melo.

Are they though?

Harden takes 10 threes and 10 FTs a game so his TS% is always going to be higher.

Maybe I am looking at it from more a skill set point of view. Melo has never been a volume three shooter or a huge FT shooter (which granted are elements to a great scorer) but his ability to create one on one and score in bunches has always been close to the best in the league.

That's a function vs aesthetic argument. Melo has always had a more well rounded shot making game than practically anyone, but it doesn't really matter in the end how you generate the points so much as how many and how efficiently. And, to be clear, Melo was a top notch scorer by any measure, the other guys are just some of the best of all time.

[Balkman32]

This is going to be one hell of an experiment. I wonder which guy is going to defer and be #3 and how they will embrace that.

I wouldn't be shocked if Russ took a back seat in the beginning of the season by getting a TON of assists.