OKC Thunder Offseason: Avengers Assemble

[Pillendreher]

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Seems like they are done taking the high road.

[bondom34]

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Seems like they are done taking the high road.

It was Doziers number in the past. I don't get it.

[ThunderBolt]

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Seems like they are done taking the high road.

It was Doziers number in the past. I don't get it.

Yea who cares. It doesn’t bother me.

[ThunderBolt]

Royce Young said Patterson will be in our closing lineup against the warriors in place of Adams.

[Andre Roberstan]

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Kleiman POed

[bondom34]

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Kleiman POed

What an a hole. He wears it for his deceased 2nd cousin.

[Kizz Fastfists]

They were never going to retire the number after what he did so it doesn't matter if someone else wears it.

[Kizz Fastfists]

'Any injury to one of those 3 and they're gonna look pretty incompetent very quickly'

I guess that depends on who the "big 3" are. An injury to Russ, PG or Adams would hurt. Adams might be the most important player on the roster due to the lack of another quality center on the roster. If Russ goes down it hurts a lot due to him being the best facilitator, but they will still have two iso scorers to cover the scoring loss. The same with PG, but Russ and Melo just get increased usage along with a few more shots for Patterson, Abrines, etc. the defense would take a hit, but would be alright with increased minutes for Patterson and Ferguson. Melo can go down for 25 games and it won't hurt much as low efficiency volume scoring can easily be replaced by other players and the defense wouldn't take a hit. Roberson going down would hurt the team more than Melo going down. Melo will be the 6th or 7th best player on the roster.

To be fair to Melo when I say low efficiency volume scoring he and Russ are similar in shooting efficiency. We all know Russ' shot selection and low 3pt shooting have led to lower efficiency than we would like for his career. The bigger difference there is Russ has been improving in that area the last few years while Melo has been declining and Melo isn't about to suddenly be 29 again so a continued slow decline in efficiency should be expected. I don't want hear anything about that having to do with the lack of talent surrounding Melo when Russ carried a team with no one anywhere near Porzingis to the playoffs last year with a better TS% than Melo has had since '13-'14.

[RalphSampsonJr]

'Any injury to one of those 3 and they're gonna look pretty incompetent very quickly'

I guess that depends on who the "big 3" are. An injury to Russ, PG or Adams would hurt. Adams might be the most important player on the roster due to the lack of another quality center on the roster. If Russ goes down it hurts a lot due to him being the best facilitator, but they will still have two iso scorers to cover the scoring loss. The same with PG, but Russ and Melo just get increased usage along with a few more shots for Patterson, Abrines, etc. the defense would take a hit, but would be alright with increased minutes for Patterson and Ferguson. Melo can go down for 25 games and it won't hurt much as low efficiency volume scoring can easily be replaced by other players and the defense wouldn't take a hit. Roberson going down would hurt the team more than Melo going down. Melo will be the 6th or 7th best player on the roster.

To be fair to Melo when I say low efficiency volume scoring he and Russ are similar in shooting efficiency. We all know Russ' shot selection and low 3pt shooting have led to lower efficiency than we would like for his career. The bigger difference there is Russ has been improving in that area the last few years while Melo has been declining and Melo isn't about to suddenly be 29 again so a continued slow decline in efficiency should be expected. I don't want hear anything about that having to do with the lack of talent surrounding Melo when Russ carried a team with no one anywhere near Porzingis to the playoffs last year with a better TS% than Melo has had since '13-'14.

Yea I agree.
People see the Melo superstar and forget the actual Melo that we will have out there.
He is a luxuary to have. That's about it. He will not help to improve the thunder in any over important aspects other than 3pt shooting, and that's only if he wants to play team ball and not jack up hand in the face shots.
The other 4 starters all carry a certain responsibility that they bring to the team that the thunder really need. I am still sticking with the idea that Russ Robes PG 2Pat and Adams will be our best lineup.
People will say that's crazy but I watched Melo last year and it just doesn't seem to matter who he has on the court Melo will do Melo things. Yea he looks cool and smooth with the jumper when it falls but it does not translate into winning games.
Now however if he changes drastically and plays team ball and carrys on the defense I saw in preseason?! That will be a different story!

[Pillendreher]

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Kleiman POed

What an a hole. He wears it for his deceased 2nd cousin.

You can't be a traitorous **** and expect to get treated well in return, period. **** Durant and **** his posse.

[hardenASG13]

'Any injury to one of those 3 and they're gonna look pretty incompetent very quickly'

I guess that depends on who the "big 3" are. An injury to Russ, PG or Adams would hurt. Adams might be the most important player on the roster due to the lack of another quality center on the roster. If Russ goes down it hurts a lot due to him being the best facilitator, but they will still have two iso scorers to cover the scoring loss. The same with PG, but Russ and Melo just get increased usage along with a few more shots for Patterson, Abrines, etc. the defense would take a hit, but would be alright with increased minutes for Patterson and Ferguson. Melo can go down for 25 games and it won't hurt much as low efficiency volume scoring can easily be replaced by other players and the defense wouldn't take a hit. Roberson going down would hurt the team more than Melo going down. Melo will be the 6th or 7th best player on the roster.

To be fair to Melo when I say low efficiency volume scoring he and Russ are similar in shooting efficiency. We all know Russ' shot selection and low 3pt shooting have led to lower efficiency than we would like for his career. The bigger difference there is Russ has been improving in that area the last few years while Melo has been declining and Melo isn't about to suddenly be 29 again so a continued slow decline in efficiency should be expected. I don't want hear anything about that having to do with the lack of talent surrounding Melo when Russ carried a team with no one anywhere near Porzingis to the playoffs last year with a better TS% than Melo has had since '13-'14.

Yea I agree.
People see the Melo superstar and forget the actual Melo that we will have out there.
He is a luxuary to have. That's about it. He will not help to improve the thunder in any over important aspects other than 3pt shooting, and that's only if he wants to play team ball and not jack up hand in the face shots.
The other 4 starters all carry a certain responsibility that they bring to the team that the thunder really need. I am still sticking with the idea that Russ Robes PG 2Pat and Adams will be our best lineup.
People will say that's crazy but I watched Melo last year and it just doesn't seem to matter who he has on the court Melo will do Melo things. Yea he looks cool and smooth with the jumper when it falls but it does not translate into winning games.
Now however if he changes drastically and plays team ball and carrys on the defense I saw in preseason?! That will be a different story!

Just curious, for all the melo haters, who they think could have gone into new york, last year, and been an efficient first option and led that team to a winning record? There aren't many players who come to mind.

The guy has never been anything but a first option, and he led his team to the wcf as such. He is a great third option offensively, will be getting the best looks of his career, and is one of the best open jump shooters in the game. He's not as important as Russ or George. Stop the 7th or 8th most important nonsense. Yes, adams is also important, but they can always play small as well once patterson comes back. Lots of teams are heading away from centers playing big minutes, because post offense is becoming less of a factor (requiring less post defense), and point guards are so good that teams exploit centers in the pick and roll. Give melo his due the guy is a big-time scorer, I'd argue the best third option in the league (including klay thompson) . For those who might argue that, please answer, how would klay have done in New York as the first option?

[Pillendreher]

I don't want hear anything about that having to do with the lack of talent surrounding Melo when Russ carried a team with no one anywhere near Porzingis to the playoffs last year with a better TS% than Melo has had since '13-'14.

Yet it sure as hell has something to do with the kind of shots you take. Ideally, Melo will limit himself to spotting up and taking advantage of the talent around him. It will take some time to find the right roles for the guys, but I'm optimistic we won't see Anthony just out there chucking midrangers after an initial 'getting-to-know-each-other' period.

Oh and btw: You can have a below average TS% and still have decent enough offensive impact. From 2014 to 2016, 32 total players took at least 2000 shots over those two seasons. Out of those 32, Melo had the 12th best OBPM at +3.1. So enough with this nonsense that Melo has no impact on the offensive had. It's not superstar level good, but I don't see why he should not be able to perform at an level that he did just 1 season ago.

He will not help to improve the thunder in any over important aspects other than 3pt shooting, and that's only if he wants to play team ball and not jack up hand in the face shots.

Anthony does way more than just take 3s. Out of the 18 guys who attempted at least 500 pull-up shots last season, had the 5th best 2P% (his 3P% is absolutely horrific in that regard - he should cut that out stat). He was one of the best 3p shooters in catch&shoot/spot up situations last season and has also been one of the best defensive rebounders for his height for years. Furthermore, even though he's not as athletic as he used to be, he can still take it to the rim (granted: He did not do that nearly enough last season, but he should have a speed advantage against most 4s). He can actually perform a pass on offense and finally is not afraid to make shots.

Carmelo Anthony is not Anthony Morrow. He's not a Superstar, but he's also not just some scrub we took on out of pity. He will help us a lot and will be instrumental in having a balanced team.

Of course if he just pouts and jacks up shots, he will not help us. But I don't see why he should agree to come to Oklahoma of all places (no offense - I'm just repeating what you Americans say about the state/city ) to do that.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Carmelo Anthony is not Anthony Morrow. He's not a Superstar, but he's also not just some scrub we took on out of pity. He will help us a lot and will be instrumental in having a balanced team.

He's not Anthony Morrow. He's Ryan Anderson. He's not a scrub, but he's not a star. Melo is a solid rotation player. He's like Vucevic, Gary Harris, Terrence Ross or Harrison Barnes. Barnes was great as a 4th option in GS, but his efficiency took a huge hit as the top option in Dallas, but those worthless counting stats went up playing on a 33 win team. Maybe Melo becomes more of a catch and shoot guy and improves his efficiency and becomes Klay Thompson lite. I just don't think he'll change enough and will still resort to his iso ways. A lot of that has to do with OKC having a coach that doesn't seem to have a playbook except for to let his players take turns with iso plays.

[bondom34]

Yeah given depth Id say Adams is more important too. I'd say PG is second though. Adams 3rd

[Pillendreher]

He's Ryan Anderson. He's not a scrub, but he's not a star.Melo is a solid rotation player. He's like Vucevic, Gary Harris, Terrence Ross or Harrison Barnes. Barnes was great as a 4th option in GS, but his efficiency took a huge hit as the top option in Dallas, but those worthless counting stats went up playing on a 33 win team.

I don't like these comparisons that don't take circumstances and roles into consideration. Carmelo Anthony has always been the first option on his team and was tasked with carrying the biggest offensive burden. He did that not in the most efficient way possible, but he did it nonetheless.

The guys you've just mentioned don't have a single season of > 20 ppg between them out of a combined 29 NBA seasons. They are not anywhere close to the offensive volume of Anthony career wise.

Now if you're arguing he was not efficient enough to be considered a really good first option, you're kinda making my argument for Melo on this team for me. That's the whole point of this. He will not be the 1st option. Ideally, he won't even be the 2nd option.

Maybe Melo becomes more of a catch and shoot guy and improves his efficiency and becomes Klay Thompson lite. I just don't think he'll change enough and will still resort to his iso ways. A lot of that has to do with OKC having a coach that doesn't seem to have a playbook except for to let his players take turns with iso plays.

And I think that's a very fair point. That's what Anthony needs to work on for this 'experiment' to succeed.

Yeah given depth Id say Adams is more important too. I'd say PG is second though. Adams 3rd

Yes, I agree with that. Melo with the team as currently constructed is basically the 'cherry on top' to raise our ceiling.

[Pillendreher]

http://newsok.com/article/5568463

“I know it was a big deal at the time, but I don't think it dominated the conversation like it should,” said ESPN analyst Jeff Van Gundy to The Oklahoman about the June 30 trade. “To me, this guy … he might be their best player. You've got the returning MVP and Paul George might be their best player. That's crazy.”

Watch out for Van Gundy to become a Thunder stan this season.

[Pillendreher]

One thing I would like to add to the 'Trade Grant for a backup Center' debate: If Grant's shooting last season was an outlier and he returns to his Philly days in that regard this season, you have got to sell high on him before that happens.

[oken]

One thing I would like to add to the 'Trade Grant for a backup Center' debate: If Grant's shooting last season was an outlier and he returns to his Philly days in that regard this season, you have got to sell high on him before that happens.

Also never forget that Presti acquired Grant for a career .366 3pt%, 5.9 RBD SF/PF who leads league in defensive charges PLUS a pick.

As a Turkish fan I applaud the Kanter trade but I am still mad at this travesty which I believe stems from the Presti's incomprehensible thirst for "young project player with potential" a.k.a "the Singler effect". Everybody has this kind of impulse from time to time, when you think you have found the killer deal online and have that incredible urge to press the order button you have to first stop and think why none of the remaining internet has not woken up to it yet. Stupid.

[jambalaya]

https://soundcloud.com/mpnpodcast

Episode 22 with some familiar guests.

[bondom34]

Justin sounds as terrifying as I'd always imagined.