Political Roundtable Part XV

[Wizardspride]

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[montestewart]

Speaking of veterans who have advice that we should all listen to:

[dckingsfan]

The problem is that it would be hard to absorb 400,000 from DACA the government would need to make some extremely difficult choices. Canada takes in about 250,000 immigrants a year plus another 50,000 refugees. Which is significantly more than the USA does currently so adding 400,000 isn't likely it would put a strain on our economy. Yes maybe 200,000 and we would take the cream of the crop just as we do for the majority of our immigrants. We are looking to the future in a economical sense with the Trump regime with the NAFTA talks in limbo because of unrealistic American demands. Our economic ties are looking elsewhere to the EU and Asia rather than the USA. Trump has only put new tariffs on Canadian products so we are looking to a future without NAFTA. The elimination of the treaty will hurt both countries and not solve some problems that can easily be negotiated for the mutual benefit of both countries. So far in the negotiations the US team has wanted everything such as only US companies bidding on US government contracts but retaining the right to bid on Canadian and Mexican contracts. Canada to give up our milk management system which does benefit our milk industry because most of our milk farmers have 100 to 150 acres and are family owned versus factory farms in the USA which are run by undocumented workers and are 4 to 5 times as big. But then whine because Mexico can grow crops cheaper than Florida. Canada would like to end the ability of USA right to work states and have industry pay decent wages in both Mexico and USA. Things we couldn't agree on is let the American court system be the arbitrator of disputes and the ability for a nation to cancel the agreement in 5 years. Canada is willing to give American financial institutions better access into Canada as long as our get equal treatment. We can offer the USA energy security without any political dangers that every other has. But fairness has never been part of the Trump regime.

Yes both economies will be hurt but Canada has more options EU trade agreement, Asian Trade agreement, close ties to the UK, Australia and NZ. We can get our winter agricultural needs from other countries likely at lower costs and make a free trade agreement with Mexico on a majority of items. When Trump is thrown out NAFTA or just a Canadian and American agreement can be drawn up.

Well if the DACA gets wacked - I think you are going to get those 400,000 regardless

[cammac]

The problem is that it would be hard to absorb 400,000 from DACA the government would need to make some extremely difficult choices. Canada takes in about 250,000 immigrants a year plus another 50,000 refugees. Which is significantly more than the USA does currently so adding 400,000 isn't likely it would put a strain on our economy. Yes maybe 200,000 and we would take the cream of the crop just as we do for the majority of our immigrants. We are looking to the future in a economical sense with the Trump regime with the NAFTA talks in limbo because of unrealistic American demands. Our economic ties are looking elsewhere to the EU and Asia rather than the USA. Trump has only put new tariffs on Canadian products so we are looking to a future without NAFTA. The elimination of the treaty will hurt both countries and not solve some problems that can easily be negotiated for the mutual benefit of both countries. So far in the negotiations the US team has wanted everything such as only US companies bidding on US government contracts but retaining the right to bid on Canadian and Mexican contracts. Canada to give up our milk management system which does benefit our milk industry because most of our milk farmers have 100 to 150 acres and are family owned versus factory farms in the USA which are run by undocumented workers and are 4 to 5 times as big. But then whine because Mexico can grow crops cheaper than Florida. Canada would like to end the ability of USA right to work states and have industry pay decent wages in both Mexico and USA. Things we couldn't agree on is let the American court system be the arbitrator of disputes and the ability for a nation to cancel the agreement in 5 years. Canada is willing to give American financial institutions better access into Canada as long as our get equal treatment. We can offer the USA energy security without any political dangers that every other has. But fairness has never been part of the Trump regime.

Yes both economies will be hurt but Canada has more options EU trade agreement, Asian Trade agreement, close ties to the UK, Australia and NZ. We can get our winter agricultural needs from other countries likely at lower costs and make a free trade agreement with Mexico on a majority of items. When Trump is thrown out NAFTA or just a Canadian and American agreement can be drawn up.

Well if the DACA gets wacked - I think you are going to get those 400,000 regardless

Canada will build a wall and make Trump pay personally!!!!!!

[verbal8]

If Canada is building a wall, what about building it around Trump Hotel and making Trump live inside it.

[cammac]

If Canada is building a wall, what about building it around Trump Hotel and making Trump live inside it.

Well the Trump hotel has been sold in Toronto and name taken off.
In Vancouver the city wants the owner to remove the name.

[cammac]

Bombardier new C Series passenger jet was hit with a 300% duty by the US/Trump government relating to a complaint by Boeing who wanted a 83% duty. Now the 1st thing you must know is that this aircraft doesn't compete against any aircraft Boeing makes. The C series is the most advanced passenger plan in the 100 to 130 passenger class with the best fuel economy and passenger comfort. Yes the plane was subsidized in Canada and as per all aircraft makers the 1st aircraft's sold are discounted in this case 150 unit order from Delta. Now Boeing received $13.4 billion in subsidies from the local government and State to build the 777 which it is doinga but has also reduced the workforce substantially since the subsidy. Boeing has also received 64 Billion in Federal loans, guarantees and grants and is the largest recipient of government aid.

This obviously has caused problems in both Canada and in the UK where the C Series is manufactured or components made. The Canadian government was about to purchase Boeing Jets to replace our fighter jets but that is on hold and looking at other options. Personally I would purchase the Typhoon fighter jet. The situation has been resolved in the Airbus now owns 51% of the project and will assemble the American component of the C Series in a new plant in Alabama which will be heavily subsidized by the State government. But all the components will come from either Canada or the UK and the rest of the worlds needs for the C Series will be manufactured in Canada. Who is the loser in this Boeing who alienated 2 governments and gained stronger competitors in Airbus and Bombardier. It will help diversify the Airbus line and lead to higher than anticipated sales for the C Series and Bombardiers Business Jets, other commercial and specialty aircraft. This makes Airbus the most diversified aircraft commercial maker in the world.

Loser Boeing will likely lose military sales in Canada and the UK and giving Airbus the upper hand in the commercial market.

[dckingsfan]

cammac - Canada, the US, Bombadier and Boeing all lose. Canada needs to keep us as a trading partner - The U.S. goods trade deficit with Canada was $12.1 billion in 2016.

The winner is Airbus and the UK - it was a brilliant marketing play on their part.

Also, Bombardier will one day move upstream (as all companies tend to do) within the U.S. market and produce a larger variant of the CS100 - that would be direct competition, no?

Bombardier facing tariffs and Boeing losing military contracts abroad.... perfect.

[cammac]

cammac - Canada, the US, Bombadier and Boeing all lose. Canada needs to keep us as a trading partner - The U.S. goods trade deficit with Canada was $12.1 billion in 2016.

The winner is Airbus and the UK - it was a brilliant marketing play on their part.

Also, Bombardier will one day move upstream (as all companies tend to do) within the U.S. market and produce a larger variant of the CS100 - that would be direct competition, no?

Bombardier facing tariffs and Boeing losing military contracts abroad.... perfect.

Bombardier was a niche airplane manufacturer who specialized in mid-sized airplanes and specialty planes and business aircraft. They never were ever going to be a player in the market that Airbus and Boeing dominates. If Boeing had been smart they would have created a partnership with Bombardier since none of the planes they make compete with Boeing. Who knows Boeing might have learned some things from Bombardier. The C series which is a maximum of 130 seats utilizes technology that no other manufacturer is currently using. Because of the fuel economy the C series can fly 3500 miles. Boeing hasn't made this type of product since the 737. But now you are right Airbus benefits but Canada also benefits in giving the C Series even more international exposure.

Yes Canada has a trade surplus but that is energy related and Canada is the only reliable supplier of energy and could find a ready market in Asia for our oil and gas. The USA could obviously fill the gap with other nations products that are not reliable such as the Middle East or Venezuela. The stupidity is that Trump wants Canada to bend over and that won't happen and that if NAFTA falls apart trade will be regulated by the WTO tariffs. What you also should research is the Smoot-Hawley tariff bill of 1934 and how it affected the global economy.

[Pointgod]

Long but interesting read about Darth Bannon and his billionaire backers. Anyone wondering why Trumps support doesn't break below 35% this is one of the reasons why. It also explains the cognitive dissonance between Trump supporters and all of his hypocrisy.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/robert-mercer-breitbart-war-on-media-steve-bannon-donald-trump-nigel-farage

[stilldropin20]

Five President's rebuke both Obama & George W. came out in different venues to criticize Trump and now this weekend all five are gathering for a hurricane relief in Texas. Donald Trump was not invited to join the group while they have political differences they believe in the sanctity of the office of President.

GD20 should apologize to me because everything I said about Kelly were correct and his diatribe against the Congress Woman(Frederica Wilson) was completely wrong. This presidency goes from crisis to crisis on a daily basis and ever changing policies on the whim of a unstable President.

It is doubtful that this congress can get anything meaningful done in legislation and if the Fox poll on the Alabama senatorial election is correct the Republican majority in the Senate will be reduced to one. While the Republicans had a dream scenario in the 2018 in the Senate races it looks like most of the vulnerable Democrats are now safe and at least 2 Republican Senators could lose. Some in safe Republican states may become vulnerable like Cruz in Texas and with the retirement of Corker in Tennessee. Also while not hoping John McCain's seat might become available.

yes, i was completely mistaken. i do appologize for jumping the gun on that, cammac. you seem like a really good guy and you(everyone here) put a lot of thought into your posts so I'd also say that i appreciate the effort of everyone to help have a thoughtful discussion. i only try to help the discussion along. remember guys, you are not going to convince anyone if you're not being fair to the truth.

[Wizardspride]

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[Ruzious]

Kelly still has to address the fact that he effectively called his boss a liar. Trump still denies saying what Kelly said Trump said. Trump said he has proof. How in the F do we have a WH like this? And how in the F do people seem to be okay with this? Lies after lies after lies after lies - and how dare anyone bring them up. Attack the messengers full force. It seems that everyone remaining in the WH is a compicit POS loyal to the king POS.

[cammac]

It is obviously the Trump strategy to keep tweets like this going because it really doesn't hurt Trumps base. After all Sgt. Johnson is black and how many votes will he lose? It stops people from knowing what the administration is really doing in EPA and the lets make the 1% even richer tax reform and increase the unfunded budget deficit with reducing essential social services and increasing a already blotted military budget.

[dckingsfan]

What you also should research is the Smoot-Hawley tariff bill of 1934 and how it affected the global economy.

cammac, one need not explain to me what free trade did and how it lifted 1B+ people out of poverty. I am a huge proponent of free trade.

My points are why it is resonating with Trump supporters. We have a negative surplus with both Mexico and Canada. Trump only needs to campaign on this issue to win. Mexico, Canada and the US will all be losers if NAFTA disappears. But politically, Trump will win - because the net deficit with Canada ($12B) and Mexico ($63B) of $75B is easy to sell to the American people.

Now, give me the argument that helps sell NAFTA to US Citizens?

[cammac]

Today Politico has a very good article on Putin which I agree with is that he isn't as powerful as people think and since Trump has not allowed seasoned diplomats and CIA operatives to counteract his power.Putin is the leader of 160 million people with a economy that is creaking along at best. ( note Canada's GDP is larger than Russia )When he runs for a election which is already rigged for his success he run on the mantel of MRGA (Make Russia Great Again) . Trump basically utilized his mantel and I know how unhappy the Russian people really are. While in China had contact with a large number of Russian expats. While they generally were being exploited by Chinese businessmen they found the living conditions far superior to Russia.

Putin in his defense has done a good job of rattling the West and basically doing it on a shoe string budget. Somehow the west fears a nation with a smaller GDP than Canada. If the USA had a viable State Department they would be triggering unrest in some of Russia's old states such as Kazakhstan who ruler is old and unpopular and the Kazakh people dislike the Russian minority. Most of the new states in the south of Russia and even Russian republics like Checknya, Dagestan, Ingushetia, North Ossetia-Alania, Kabardino-Balka & Karachay-Cherkess to stoke independence movements and the CIA supply weapons. The key is to destabilize Russia at home so they pull back from meddling internationally. Reagan defeated the USSR by basically bankrupting it and this can be done by using tools that Russia has used against the West. But then again Trump won't even put sanctions into effect that congress overwhelmingly passed.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/23/this-myth-about-the-great-and-horrible-putin-215735?lo=ap_d1

[cammac]

What you also should research is the Smoot-Hawley tariff bill of 1934 and how it affected the global economy.

cammac, one need not explain to me what free trade did and how it lifted 1B+ people out of poverty. I am a huge proponent of free trade.

My points are why it is resonating with Trump supporters. We have a negative surplus with both Mexico and Canada. Trump only needs to campaign on this issue to win. Mexico, Canada and the US will all be losers if NAFTA disappears. But politically, Trump will win - because the net deficit with Canada ($12B) and Mexico ($63B) of $75B is easy to sell to the American people.

Now, give me the argument that helps sell NAFTA to US Citizens?

I can only speak from a Canadian point of view and like the USA we would like some of the unfair labor practices stopped in Mexico by primarily US companies.
1st is a myth that Canada runs a surplus we are actually running a deficit of 10 billion because of goods and services which would also reflect on the Mexican surplus but not to the degree as Canada.
2nd. Canada is the largest supplier of oil and natural gas to the USA and the only stable partner.
3rd. While Canada only supplies the USA with 2% of electricity but could supply more our grids are interconnected so when outages happen our power grid comes to the rescue.
4th. Canada is the largest buyer of American agricultural products but in a changed world other countries can supply those products.
5th USA can only internally supply 65% of its softwood lumber and Canada supplies the bulk of the deficit that keeps USA prices stable and a benefit to consumers. Note with the duty placed on Canadian lumber the prices went up for consumers and the Koch Brothers profited.
6th Canada supplies a wealth of raw material for USA industry.
7th. Canada is the largest trading partner with the USA
8th Canada is the largest consumer of USA entertainment and largest foreign tourism consumer.
9th For 150 year since the inception of Canada has provided a worry free neighbor who has the same ideals are the USA.
Thats just a few things.