Fultz vs. Tatum: What do you think now?

[3D Chess]

LOL what on earth?! He really thought Danny was going to give him info on his draft board, during the draft??

[VeryMuchWoke]

LOL what on earth?! He really thought Danny was going to give him info on his draft board, during the draft??

I don't think we had any picks left at the time (we ended up buying the Rondo pick from PHX). I'm sure it happens. Keep in mind that the Bulls gave the Warriors Jordan Bell to "build equity".

[Slartibartfast]

Hmmm, should we give them a season (or two or three) before we call the winner?

Besides, it's not Fultz v. Tatum. It's Fultz v. (Tatum + LAL18/SAC19). Perhaps we ought to see who the pick turns into first?

This is what has Sixers fans worried. Fultz has to outplay Tatum by quite a bit to make up for that lost draft pick. One could argue that the pick was acquired by Hinkie through theft anyhow (he essentially did). Unfortunately for the Sixers, Bryan Colangelo is now in charge and treated that pick like it was a throw-in, all so he could say he made a big trade and show off his fancy suit during the press conference. .

My favorite part of this trade is that 20 years from now, we can all laugh at Colangelo throwing shade at Danny Ainge as if he already won the trade. I guess he's still mad at Danny for not telling him why he passed up Marcus Williams in the 2006 NBA Draft. (Fast forward to 4:15 of this video - [url]

Watch on YouTube

[/url])

“Well, it’s never easy negotiating with Boston because they’re smart guys – I’m talking about [Celtics assistant general manager] Mike Zarren, not Danny Ainge by the way,” Colangelo said on Monday at a press conference to confirm the trade, jokingly taking a shot at his trade adversary.

Nice zing, Bryan. You really hurt Danny with that one!!

It really does suck that BC of all people gets to harvest the fruits of Hinkie's labors.

And we got good value for the pick, which a lot of people acknowledged at the time (though the #1 protection bothers me).

But I'm still on the Fultz train and I'd still rather have him than Tatum.

The reason he's struggling right now has everything to do with whatever's going on with his shoulder. Philly fans are traumatized after the nightmarish run they've had from ET busting to Bynum breaking to Embiid and Simmons injuries to Okafor's stank so they are inclined to think the worst, and Celtics fans are too for obvious reasons, but there's vanishingly little reason to believe that Fultz' shooting form issues are anything more than a blip.

And once his shot returns, he's very much a beast. The guy is huge, quick, slippery and skilled. A PNR nightmare in a PNR league.

Tatum is acquitting himself very well with solid team D and good rebounding, and we all know he's a virtually guaranteed bucket posting up smaller guards, but I still have a lot of my same issues with him vs. Fultz (and DSJ, the next guy with borderline superstar potential). I think his skill stack, while impressive, is overly concentrated in mid-post iso jump shooting and post-ups. That he's actually behind the curve among scoring wing prospects when it comes to PNR basketball. That his ceiling is more Danny Granger (edited to clarify - pre-injury Danny Granger, the star who put up 26/5/3 at his peak) than Paul Pierce.

[Writebloc]

Hmmm, should we give them a season (or two or three) before we call the winner?

Besides, it's not Fultz v. Tatum. It's Fultz v. (Tatum + LAL18/SAC19). Perhaps we ought to see who the pick turns into first?

This is what has Sixers fans worried. Fultz has to outplay Tatum by quite a bit to make up for that lost draft pick. One could argue that the pick was acquired by Hinkie through theft anyhow (he essentially did). Unfortunately for the Sixers, Bryan Colangelo is now in charge and treated that pick like it was a throw-in, all so he could say he made a big trade and show off his fancy suit during the press conference. .

My favorite part of this trade is that 20 years from now, we can all laugh at Colangelo throwing shade at Danny Ainge as if he already won the trade. I guess he's still mad at Danny for not telling him why he passed up Marcus Williams in the 2006 NBA Draft. (Fast forward to 4:15 of this video - [url]

Watch on YouTube

[/url])

“Well, it’s never easy negotiating with Boston because they’re smart guys – I’m talking about [Celtics assistant general manager] Mike Zarren, not Danny Ainge by the way,” Colangelo said on Monday at a press conference to confirm the trade, jokingly taking a shot at his trade adversary.

Nice zing, Bryan. You really hurt Danny with that one!!

It really does suck that BC of all people gets to harvest the fruits of Hinkie's labors.

And we got good value for the pick, which a lot of people acknowledged at the time (though the #1 protection bothers me).

But I'm still on the Fultz train and I'd still rather have him than Tatum.

The reason he's struggling right now has everything to do with whatever's going on with his shoulder. Philly fans are traumatized after the nightmarish run they've had from ET busting to Bynum breaking to Embiid and Simmons injuries to Okafor's stank so they are inclined to think the worst, and Celtics fans are too for obvious reasons, but there's vanishingly little reason to believe that Fultz' shooting form issues are anything more than a blip.

And once his shot returns, he's very much a beast. The guy is huge, quick, slippery and skilled. A PNR nightmare in a PNR league.

Tatum is acquitting himself very well with solid team D and good rebounding, and we all know he's a virtually guaranteed bucket posting up smaller guards, but I still have a lot of my same issues with him vs. Fultz (and DSJ, the next guy with borderline superstar potential). I think his skill stack, while impressive, is overly concentrated in mid-post iso jump shooting and post-ups. That he's actually behind the curve among scoring wing prospects when it comes to PNR basketball. That his ceiling is more Danny Granger (edited to clarify - pre-injury Danny Granger, the star who put up 26/5/3 at his peak) than Paul Pierce.

If his shoulder is so injured than why is he not sitting? I think Fultz is a bit of head case? The shoulder is what they are telling the media, but if he was that injured would it make any sense for them to play him? Philly has shown no problem with shutting their other highly drafted talent down, and now they are going to press Fultz to play through this injury? It doesn't add up. The other thing was it isn't as if Fultz was the best prospect coming into college last year, he surprised people and moved up, maybe on unsustainable numbers?

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

LOL what on earth?! He really thought Danny was going to give him info on his draft board, during the draft??

I don't think we had any picks left at the time (we ended up buying the Rondo pick from PHX). I'm sure it happens. Keep in mind that the Bulls gave the Warriors Jordan Bell to "build equity".

Lol at GarPax's excuse. Just come out and say it already - "We sold the pick so that the Reinsdorfs could pay the signing bonus for the White Sox's #1 pick". GarPax is terrible, but people should be roasting the Reinsdorf family for that move.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

If his shoulder is so injured than why is he not sitting? I think Fultz is a bit of head case? The shoulder is what they are telling the media, but if he was that injured would it make any sense for them to play him? Philly has shown no problem with shutting their other highly drafted talent down, and now they are going to press Fultz to play through this injury? It doesn't add up. The other thing was it isn't as if Fultz was the best prospect coming into college last year, he surprised people and moved up, maybe on unsustainable numbers?

Yup. And shoulder injury or not - we've seen Kelly, AB, Kevin Love, etc suffer shoulder injuries, and not once did any of these guys think "Hey, you know what? I'm going to change the form on my jumper!".

Fultz shouldn't be playing if he's having to change his jumper. We know he can shoot. He showed that in college and in summer league. It's ridiculous that the Sixers keep rolling him out to play. Good grief.

[Slartibartfast]

This is what has Sixers fans worried. Fultz has to outplay Tatum by quite a bit to make up for that lost draft pick. One could argue that the pick was acquired by Hinkie through theft anyhow (he essentially did). Unfortunately for the Sixers, Bryan Colangelo is now in charge and treated that pick like it was a throw-in, all so he could say he made a big trade and show off his fancy suit during the press conference. .

My favorite part of this trade is that 20 years from now, we can all laugh at Colangelo throwing shade at Danny Ainge as if he already won the trade. I guess he's still mad at Danny for not telling him why he passed up Marcus Williams in the 2006 NBA Draft. (Fast forward to 4:15 of this video - [url]

Watch on YouTube

[/url])



Nice zing, Bryan. You really hurt Danny with that one!!

It really does suck that BC of all people gets to harvest the fruits of Hinkie's labors.

And we got good value for the pick, which a lot of people acknowledged at the time (though the #1 protection bothers me).

But I'm still on the Fultz train and I'd still rather have him than Tatum.

The reason he's struggling right now has everything to do with whatever's going on with his shoulder. Philly fans are traumatized after the nightmarish run they've had from ET busting to Bynum breaking to Embiid and Simmons injuries to Okafor's stank so they are inclined to think the worst, and Celtics fans are too for obvious reasons, but there's vanishingly little reason to believe that Fultz' shooting form issues are anything more than a blip.

And once his shot returns, he's very much a beast. The guy is huge, quick, slippery and skilled. A PNR nightmare in a PNR league.

Tatum is acquitting himself very well with solid team D and good rebounding, and we all know he's a virtually guaranteed bucket posting up smaller guards, but I still have a lot of my same issues with him vs. Fultz (and DSJ, the next guy with borderline superstar potential). I think his skill stack, while impressive, is overly concentrated in mid-post iso jump shooting and post-ups. That he's actually behind the curve among scoring wing prospects when it comes to PNR basketball. That his ceiling is more Danny Granger (edited to clarify - pre-injury Danny Granger, the star who put up 26/5/3 at his peak) than Paul Pierce.

If his shoulder is so injured than why is he not sitting? I think Fultz is a bit of head case? The shoulder is what they are telling the media, but if he was that injured would it make any sense for them to play him? Philly has shown no problem with shutting their other highly drafted talent down, and now they are going to press Fultz to play through this injury? It doesn't add up. The other thing was it isn't as if Fultz was the best prospect coming into college last year, he surprised people and moved up, maybe on unsustainable numbers?

He's clearly uncomfortable with his shoulder. It's possible to have a shoulder injury that won't be aggravated by playing but can still limit you.

He would have to be the biggest headcase of all time to permanently break his form at a whim in between summer league and preseason.

Sure he surprised at Washington, but not by that much. He was a bigtime recruit whose main selling point was his size, shake and pull-up mid-range J. It's not a Justice Winslow situation where he got hot from corner 3 on small volume while being broke from everywhere else and reverted back to form. This is a guy who has always done 70% of his work from the perimeter.

[Curmudgeon]

As someone who was never on the Fultz bandwagon, the fact that Fultz is struggling is no surprise to me. Tatum was always the better player.

[Writebloc]

He's clearly uncomfortable with his shoulder. It's possible to have a shoulder injury that won't be aggravated by playing but can still limit you.

He would have to be the biggest headcase of all time to permanently break his form at a whim in between summer league and preseason.

Sure he surprised at Washington, but not by that much. He was a bigtime recruit whose main selling point was his size, shake and pull-up mid-range J. It's not a Justice Winslow situation where he got hot from corner 3 on small volume while being broke from everywhere else and reverted back to form. This is a guy who has always done 70% of his work from the perimeter.

Yet, this is exactly what has happened? Maybe he isn't aggravating the shoulder, but he's certainly losing confidence, which in this case is devastating; he hasn't attempted a shot outside of the paint. Even if the shoulder is just a bit inflamed, it seems as if that is enough of a reason to shut him down until he can work through this? Now he's not starting; he's behind Jerryd Bayless, a journeyman, on the depth chart; he thought he was going to be a point guard and now is a combo guard? The entire thing is crazy, Ainge and crew definitely saw something that others didn't, I'm starting to think this is why the Celtics made the deal so quickly and so far ahead of the draft as he did?

[Duke4life831]

Whats Tatums upside and whom does he remind you of?

Ive personally never really bought into the Melo comparison all that much. I said all last year when he was at Duke that he could play seamlessly in a team system, he just also has the ability to ISO and create his own shot whenever he wants. I think a lot of people just saw his ability to ISO and assumed oh hes only a ball stopper ISO guy like Melo. One of his best games at Duke was against Syracuse and he put up like 19/13/6 and he never dribbled the ball more than once before a made FG. The dude just fitted seamlessly into the team. Plus I think hes a much better defender than Melo ever was.

To me its pretty hard to find someone who he reminded me of, but to me I think hes a 6'8 version of Brandon Roy. And when I say that its more how Roy was this mid range assassin and could create his own shot whenever but also fit perfectly within a teams system. And the dude was just so smart and always seemed to make winning plays. Thats how I view Tatum, now ya their styles arent identical, Tatum wont get the assists like Roy and Tatum is a better rebounder and defender (IMO). Speaking more on how they impact a game more so than identical playing styles.

I also think his upside is all dependent on how athletic he becomes. He definitely already looks a little more explosive than he did at Duke, if he can continue to get stronger and a little more explosive, well damn thats a really scary player with the combination of his IQ, shooting ability, handles, rebounding and defense.

[Slartibartfast]

He's clearly uncomfortable with his shoulder. It's possible to have a shoulder injury that won't be aggravated by playing but can still limit you.

He would have to be the biggest headcase of all time to permanently break his form at a whim in between summer league and preseason.

Sure he surprised at Washington, but not by that much. He was a bigtime recruit whose main selling point was his size, shake and pull-up mid-range J. It's not a Justice Winslow situation where he got hot from corner 3 on small volume while being broke from everywhere else and reverted back to form. This is a guy who has always done 70% of his work from the perimeter.

Yet, this is exactly what has happened? Maybe he isn't aggravating the shoulder, but he's certainly losing confidence, which in this case is devastating; he hasn't attempted a shot outside of the paint. Even if the shoulder is just a bit inflamed, it seems as if that is enough of a reason to shut him down until he can work through this? Now he's not starting; he's behind Jerryd Bayless, a journeyman, on the depth chart; he thought he was going to be a point guard and now is a combo guard? The entire thing is crazy, Ainge and crew definitely saw something that others didn't, I'm starting to think this is why the Celtics made the deal so quickly and so far ahead of the draft as he did?

The confidence in the J seems to be exclusively tied to his shoulder and vice versa. He hasn't shown any collapse in confidence in driving to the hole or on baby jumpers.

As soon as whatever's wrong with his shoulder abates, I expect him to start shooting from range again.

We'll see. I became a big Fultz fan when I thought we were gonna draft him so I'm rooting for him.

By the same token, I was not a Tatum fan, but I really do like the way he carries himself - none of that Kobe primadonna behavior you usually see out of someone with an iso scoring skillset. Very calm, very willing to work within a system, very willing to do the non-scoring stuff.

[Slartibartfast]

Whats Tatums upside and whom does he remind you of?

Ive personally never really bought into the Melo comparison all that much. I said all last year when he was at Duke that he could play seamlessly in a team system, he just also has the ability to ISO and create his own shot whenever he wants. I think a lot of people just saw his ability to ISO and assumed oh hes only a ball stopper ISO guy like Melo. One of his best games at Duke was against Syracuse and he put up like 19/13/6 and he never dribbled the ball more than once before a made FG. The dude just fitted seamlessly into the team. Plus I think hes a much better defender than Melo ever was.

To me its pretty hard to find someone who he reminded me of, but to me I think hes a 6'8 version of Brandon Roy. And when I say that its more how Roy was this mid range assassin and could create his own shot whenever but also fit perfectly within a teams system. And the dude was just so smart and always seemed to make winning plays. Thats how I view Tatum, now ya their styles arent identical, Tatum wont get the assists like Roy and Tatum is a better rebounder and defender (IMO). Speaking more on how they impact a game more so than identical playing styles.

I also think his upside is all dependent on how athletic he becomes. He definitely already looks a little more explosive than he did at Duke, if he can continue to get stronger and a little more explosive, well damn thats a really scary player with the combination of his IQ, shooting ability, handles, rebounding and defense.

If he becomes Roy level offensively, he'll be a legit all-star for a decade.

But that's my biggest question mark with him - Roy was a masterful mid-range and in scorer, but what really set him apart was his ability to handle full-time from the perimeter a la D-Wade or Harden. He could get wherever he wanted with his dribble starting from 25 feet out and dish like a PG.

I don't see that in Tatum. I view him much more in line with that Danny Granger/Rashard Lewis group of scoring combo forwards. Guys who used their plus quickness and skill to abuse PFs and their size and slashing/posting to beat up on wings. Both guys also versatile defenders. Obviously Tatum is more advanced than those guys were at the same age, but I just don't see a great toolkit for being a bigtime behind the line PNR player.

[jmr07019]

Whats Tatums upside and whom does he remind you of?

Ive personally never really bought into the Melo comparison all that much. I said all last year when he was at Duke that he could play seamlessly in a team system, he just also has the ability to ISO and create his own shot whenever he wants. I think a lot of people just saw his ability to ISO and assumed oh hes only a ball stopper ISO guy like Melo. One of his best games at Duke was against Syracuse and he put up like 19/13/6 and he never dribbled the ball more than once before a made FG. The dude just fitted seamlessly into the team. Plus I think hes a much better defender than Melo ever was.

To me its pretty hard to find someone who he reminded me of, but to me I think hes a 6'8 version of Brandon Roy. And when I say that its more how Roy was this mid range assassin and could create his own shot whenever but also fit perfectly within a teams system. And the dude was just so smart and always seemed to make winning plays. Thats how I view Tatum, now ya their styles arent identical, Tatum wont get the assists like Roy and Tatum is a better rebounder and defender (IMO). Speaking more on how they impact a game more so than identical playing styles.

I also think his upside is all dependent on how athletic he becomes. He definitely already looks a little more explosive than he did at Duke, if he can continue to get stronger and a little more explosive, well damn thats a really scary player with the combination of his IQ, shooting ability, handles, rebounding and defense.

If he becomes Roy level offensively, he'll be a legit all-star for a decade.

But that's my biggest question mark with him - Roy was a masterful mid-range and in scorer, but what really set him apart was his ability to handle full-time from the perimeter a la D-Wade or Harden. He could get wherever he wanted with his dribble starting from 25 feet out and dish like a PG.

I don't see that in Tatum. I view him much more in line with that Danny Granger/Rashard Lewis group of scoring combo forwards. Guys who used their plus quickness and skill to abuse PFs and their size and slashing/posting to beat up on wings. Both guys also versatile defenders. Obviously Tatum is more advanced than those guys were at the same age, but I just don't see a great toolkit for being a bigtime behind the line PNR player.

I see Tatum as the pick man more than the ball handler. Can't double the ball handler because Tatum is too good at scoring and he can make easy passes in a 4 on 3 situation. Can't switch because Tatum will kill a pg in the post. Can't go under the pick because Kyrie will kill you from 3. You gotta fight through the pick and leave Tatum with space at the 3 point line. He's gotta improve his 3 ball but once he does the Kyrie / Tatum PnR is realllly tough to defend.

[Duke4life831]

Whats Tatums upside and whom does he remind you of?

Ive personally never really bought into the Melo comparison all that much. I said all last year when he was at Duke that he could play seamlessly in a team system, he just also has the ability to ISO and create his own shot whenever he wants. I think a lot of people just saw his ability to ISO and assumed oh hes only a ball stopper ISO guy like Melo. One of his best games at Duke was against Syracuse and he put up like 19/13/6 and he never dribbled the ball more than once before a made FG. The dude just fitted seamlessly into the team. Plus I think hes a much better defender than Melo ever was.

To me its pretty hard to find someone who he reminded me of, but to me I think hes a 6'8 version of Brandon Roy. And when I say that its more how Roy was this mid range assassin and could create his own shot whenever but also fit perfectly within a teams system. And the dude was just so smart and always seemed to make winning plays. Thats how I view Tatum, now ya their styles arent identical, Tatum wont get the assists like Roy and Tatum is a better rebounder and defender (IMO). Speaking more on how they impact a game more so than identical playing styles.

I also think his upside is all dependent on how athletic he becomes. He definitely already looks a little more explosive than he did at Duke, if he can continue to get stronger and a little more explosive, well damn thats a really scary player with the combination of his IQ, shooting ability, handles, rebounding and defense.

If he becomes Roy level offensively, he'll be a legit all-star for a decade.

But that's my biggest question mark with him - Roy was a masterful mid-range and in scorer, but what really set him apart was his ability to handle full-time from the perimeter a la D-Wade or Harden. He could get wherever he wanted with his dribble starting from 25 feet out and dish like a PG.

I don't see that in Tatum. I view him much more in line with that Danny Granger/Rashard Lewis group of scoring combo forwards. Guys who used their plus quickness and skill to abuse PFs and their size and slashing/posting to beat up on wings. Both guys also versatile defenders. Obviously Tatum is more advanced than those guys were at the same age, but I just don't see a great toolkit for being a bigtime behind the line PNR player.

Now again I dont think their games are identical, no way Tatum ever becomes the PnR player Roy was. Again I bring up Roy because Roy was the supremely skilled solid athlete but not freakish, mid range assassin who was so smart and just always made winning plays. To me Tatum is that in wing form.

I think Tatum has a better handle than Granger/Lewis which will allow him to be more of an overall threat than those two guys. Now I do think Granger in my opinion is his best comparison when it comes to wings. But I think Tatum can be a better overall player and even more dynamic as a scorer (dont think he will ever be in a position to put up 19 shots a game like Granger was though).

[SmartWentCrazy]

Why do people keep calling Tatum a PF??? Stop. The kid is a SF and that's where he will max his potential. Yes he can play PF at times but that's not his natural position. Just like when Marcus Smart he came in everyone wanted him to play PG in reality he can play some PG but he's a SG/PG. Tatum is SF/PF

Respectfully disagree. One of Hayward/Brown/Tatum need to be the big wing that will be guarded by opposing 4’s. I think it’s pretty obvious which one will be making that move.

[Duke4life831]

Why do people keep calling Tatum a PF??? Stop. The kid is a SF and that's where he will max his potential. Yes he can play PF at times but that's not his natural position. Just like when Marcus Smart he came in everyone wanted him to play PG in reality he can play some PG but he's a SG/PG. Tatum is SF/PF

Respectfully disagree. One of Hayward/Brown/Tatum need to be the big wing that will be guarded by opposing 4’s. I think it’s pretty obvious which one will be making that move.

Yup offensively I dont think it makes a difference. I think all 3 of those guys are basically going to be playing the same position offensively. You call Tatum a 4 because A) hes by far the best rebounder out of the group. And its not like its the cheap rebounds not in traffic type, that dude battles for those boards and B) hes the longest out of the group and already does a good job holding his own. Also hes not quite as quick as Brown or Hayward which means hes better off guarding 4s than 3s and 2s (even though I think he still does a solid job using his length in those situations).

[celticfan42487]

Why do people keep calling Tatum a PF??? Stop. The kid is a SF and that's where he will max his potential. Yes he can play PF at times but that's not his natural position. Just like when Marcus Smart he came in everyone wanted him to play PG in reality he can play some PG but he's a SG/PG. Tatum is SF/PF

Respectfully disagree. One of Hayward/Brown/Tatum need to be the big wing that will be guarded by opposing 4’s. I think it’s pretty obvious which one will be making that move.

I honestly strongly disagree with both of his assessments.

Smart can't shoot, jump, or finish at the rim. The only offensive value he has is as a PG running the offense (if he could theoretically learn to play to his strengths, which is 0 on offense other than dribbling and making simple passes).

Tatum hasn't showed much dribbling wise at all, but he consistently has shown he's good with his back to the basket. That suggests PF is a good spot for him, but more importantly he's looking like a capable rebounder and that's something you want at the PF more than the SF spot.

[Writebloc]

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[The Corey's]

I was So angry at the time. I was memorized by the idea of having the first overallpick finally after 3 years of nets watching.

I knew nothing of Tatum. I was so let focused in the fultz and ball bandwagon and bought into all the media hype.

I can't say I was wrong because it's not fair to fultz after only 3 games but I can say that I'm happy with having Tatum, Irving and Hayward as opposed to fultz, Hayward and Thomas.

So ya. I let my blind rage affect my senses and gave Danny a lot of ****. But I cooled down after a month and right now Tatum looks like a real winner.

[London2Boston]

2 points and 2 Assists for Fultz tonight. Could you imagine the meltdown here at the moment if we drafted him and hyped him all summer and started seeing this