Political Roundtable Part XV

[dckingsfan]

cammac - I would tell you that those arguments would fall on deaf ears from the average US citizen. You can hear Trump now...

$75 Billion!!!!

[cammac]

cammac - I would tell you that those arguments would fall on deaf ears from the average US citizen. You can hear Trump now...

$75 Billion!!!!

Unfortunately you wanted facts!
I'm not trying to convince the American public which for the most part you are right won't understand the implications.
There are many Americans that count are aware of what a collapse of a free trade agreement will have on both economies.
Now can you tell me exactly who would want to trade with the USA?

[dckingsfan]

Unfortunately you wanted facts!

Nope - I was looking for the political statement that a politician would use in a campaign. You can see how difficult that is... it isn't obvious.

...Now can you tell me exactly who would want to trade with the USA?

But that isn't what isolationists want - they don't see the value of free trade.

There answer is - no one - we want to make it here...

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[cammac]

Unfortunately you wanted facts!

Nope - I was looking for the political statement that a politician would use in a campaign. You can see how difficult that is... it isn't obvious.

...Now can you tell me exactly who would want to trade with the USA?

But that isn't what isolationists want - they don't see the value of free trade.

There answer is - no one - we want to make it here...

Then the American public will find out the cost!

[I_Like_Dirt]

:dontknow:

Read on Twitter

Oh man, Putin is like a lion toying with his food. I love the premise that America needed a hard businessman to handle negotiations with Putin. Just ask all those other hardened businessmen formerly known as Russian Oligarchs how easy it is to deal with Putin. Anyone who thinks Trump isn't compromised at this point is kidding themselves. The odds of that not being the case are about the same as the odds of an NBA team coming back down 50 going into the 4th quarter. It could happen. And I say this believing that the Russia connection is probably the least concerning of all of Trump's transgressions, by a rather significant margin in certain cases.

[dckingsfan]

Unfortunately you wanted facts!

Nope - I was looking for the political statement that a politician would use in a campaign. You can see how difficult that is... it isn't obvious.

...Now can you tell me exactly who would want to trade with the USA?

But that isn't what isolationists want - they don't see the value of free trade.

There answer is - no one - we want to make it here...

Then the American public will find out the cost!

And the Canadians and the Mexicans - why, because our politicians can't explain why it is beneficial for all parties.

[stilldropin20]

Read on Twitter

yeah sorry. this whole thing kinda stinks. seems really dirty.

the president doesn't "have to call." doesn't even have to write. decades ago, the bereaved of recently departed vets simply just got a letter. and not always with the presidents actual signature(times of war). Then at some point so as to score political points, presidents began making phone calls to the bereaved. Just getting a call was suppose to be enough in and of itslef so long as the president wasn't purposefully mean or rude. I hoghly doubt the president was purposefully mean or rude. and if the presidnet had a "moment" himself. was caught up in the moment of making a really tough call and fumbled through the call or forgot the name for a second...i'm just having a lot of trouble turing this into something "bad" from president. The president is just a human being as well. so this whole thing kinda stinks to me. I kinda would like the audio to be released on this. just to know for myself. But i'm about 100% certain there will be no "gotya." if the audio is relaeased, there will be no mean nor rude comment. At worst, we'll hear just an knowingly awkward man, fumbling through a very tough phone call awkwardly. but to use this in th emanner it has been used to score negative political points is only going to make future phone calls like this more vetted, more rehearsed, and more controlled so future presidents can be more certain of the outcome.

I'm certain the left thinks they have a teeny tiny victory here, death of a thousand cuts they are trying to inflict on Trump, and this is just going to end up a loss for all future dead vets and their bereaved.

When a phone call is made any bereaved widow or parent or child is fair to say how that call made them feel. so this is a tough one. you can never tell someone how to feel. and they are free to feel however they want.

In this particular phone call, a congresswomen drove around and hung around with this widow for what is reported is the complete 24 hour window for the time that the call was expected from the president.

It's clear what the intent was here. "the gotchya!" I'm not blaming the widow, either. not sure who i blame. but a call from the president is suppose to be an honor.

The left has mostly annoyed me with their tactics. But this one is really really really low. feel kinda dirty just hearing all this. again, if we get audio on this and he sounds mean or rude? then count me in the fully disgusted camp. But if its just an awkward man dealing with a very awkward and difficult phone call the best he can? then I'm fully disgusted in the left and their toilet bowl politics. if that's the case, then that's just pure garbage. i mean just driving around with this women for 24 hours waiting for the gotchya. and the reason, ive heard? that trump had trouble remembering his name for a very short period of time? and specifically the statement "he knew what he signed up for?" i mean that's just about standard protocol. again, i stood the watch. my grandfather was a POW in germany and came back 6'2" and only 70lbs. he was drafted. and still encouraged me to enlist. cried on the day i graduated from boot camp. and I too knew what i signed up for. i purposely didn't have kids nor really a steady girlfriend in those days. its a terrible way of life for families, imo. more suited for single guys n gals. but a married guy actually gets paid more to do the same job and even more if he has kids. which is weird. so some guys get married and stay in. are "lifers" so to speak. my 2 brothers are lifers (over 20 years marines, now retired). they too know what they signed up for. and if i had to call one of my sister in laws and "make that call" i'd say something similar. this is what "he wanted to do" "he knew the risks" "and still he chose to serve to protect our nation." that's kinda standard language for those calls.

so again, this could be on trump if he was purposefully mean or rude. or this could be on the some dirty dirty politics on the left. i'll reserve final judgment until i hear the actual audio which will likely get leaked at some point.

[Wizardspride]

No one is saying (for the most part) Trump intentionally tried to hurt Mrs Johnson.
Quite frankly, I just don't think he's a particularly empathetic person. I think the part about not even remembering the young man's name just adds fuel to that meme.

Also, gonna throw in some of the awkward comments he's made about the people of Puerto Rico. Just sort of fits the lack of empathy narrative.

Out of curiosity, who do you think Congresswoman Wilson is to the Johnson family?

[montestewart]

In this particular phone call, a congresswomen drove around and hung around with this widow for what is reported is the complete 24 hour window for the time that the call was expected from the president.

Sorry, I haven't heard that allegation yet, and I just did a search and was unable to find any site, even extremist, partisan, FAKE NEWS site, featuring that allegation. You should know better than to post something that sounds so much like partisan FAKE NEWS without at least offering a link to the site so people can judge for themselves. Without that link, it just sounds like a a prefab bullet point from some partisan disinformation service. So get that link.

As to the rest of that long post, well...get that link. The future of America is hinging on that link. Get that link.

[montestewart]

And sure enough, the partisan conservative disinformation FAKE NEWS machine is cranking out a story that Rep. Wilson has never supported pro-veteran legislation, a contention that is already being ripped to shreds as flying in the face of the facts as demonstrated by voting records. MSM frequently gets the story wrong, Alt-News counters by presenting Alt-facts made up from scratch.

[I_Like_Dirt]

And the Canadians and the Mexicans - why, because our politicians can't explain why it is beneficial for all parties.

I don't think many politicians are particularly interested in what's beneficial for all parties and are more looking out for number one.

That said, I also don't think that's the reason for the traction here. A lot of people are either simply unwilling or unable to understand how something like that could benefit all parties, and in some cases it doesn't actually benefit them in the sense that it doesn't get them what they want. Benefitting someone in a way that isn't particularly tangible when it wasn't what they were asking for in the first place is a tough sell. It also makes for a scenario where it's easier than it should be to simply tweak details of what's going on to one's own benefit rather than the benefit of the citizens because it creates a scenario where a lot of the populace isn't paying particular attention to what's happening and only turns their ears when they find out how it might screw over others for whom they don't particularly care.

[Ruzious]

SD, you can't see the forest from the trees. He lied about what he said to the widow - even after Kelly sold his soul trying to excuse him. It's a completely narcissistic POS that you're defending. By the time you see the forest, it'll be gone. Seriously bro, I think you're lost.

[nuposse04]

I think SD might be a Russian troll at this point.

[montestewart]

I like the repeated assertion by Trump apologists attempting to affect a reasonable tone (I can imagine a briar pipe or something) characterizing the "effort" Trump attackers have to exert in order to "twist" everything he does into something bad, using terms like contortion, gymnastics, etc.

Really, it's about as hard as finding something to laugh at with a good stand up comedian. I've been following this clown for 30+ years. He's been so well known for so long specifically because he's a whiny, bratty, arrogant, ill-informed, bigoted, narcissistic, born-with-a-silver-spoon-in-his-mouth DB. He has a long track record. We are conditioned to expect that from him, and in his tweets, speeches, interviews, etc., he daily delivers on the checklist. Caught in a blatant lie. Check! Contradicts his own administration. Check! Acts like a complete ****. Check! No real effort involved at all on our part, and for his part, he's like a political Joe DiMaggio...he makes it look easy.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

In this particular phone call, a congresswomen drove around and hung around with this widow for what is reported is the complete 24 hour window for the time that the call was expected from the president.

http://www.newsweek.com/widow-sgt-la-david-johnson-busts-fake-facebook-message-attacking-rep-frederica-690444

Wilson overheard the call when she was traveling with Johnson’s family, which was headed to the airport to collect Johnson’s remains when Trump’s call came in.

[Pointgod]

Nope - I was looking for the political statement that a politician would use in a campaign. You can see how difficult that is... it isn't obvious.

But that isn't what isolationists want - they don't see the value of free trade.

There answer is - no one - we want to make it here...

Then the American public will find out the cost!

And the Canadians and the Mexicans - why, because our politicians can't explain why it is beneficial for all parties.

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/naftas-impact-u-s-economy-facts/

A some Google search can provide the benefits and drawbacks of NAFTA. One simple way to explain the benefits of NAFTA is to simply ask Americans if they want to pay more for everyday items like groceries and luxury items like cars. Ripping up a free trade agreement will have negative effects on every party and will hit those at the lowest income level the hardest. It won't bring back jobs either. NAFTA has been successful for Americans but it could be more successful if the people would stop voting in Republicans who only want to give tax cuts to the rich instead of redistributing the gains from free trade.

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

In this particular phone call, a congresswomen drove around and hung around with this widow for what is reported is the complete 24 hour window for the time that the call was expected from the president.

http://www.newsweek.com/widow-sgt-la-david-johnson-busts-fake-facebook-message-attacking-rep-frederica-690444

Wilson overheard the call when she was traveling with Johnson’s family, which was headed to the airport to collect Johnson’s remains when Trump’s call came in.

LaDavid Johnsons mother also confirmed what the President said and she was offended. This shows Trump's lack of tact and instead of simply issuing a statement apologizing and clarifying that his intent wasn't to offend he sends out his lackey John Kelly to lie for him and personally attacks both the congresswoman and the widow. These aren't the actions of a man fit to lead a country. I couldn't imagine President Cruz or Rubio acting like such pieces of trash.

[stilldropin20]

SD, you can't see the forest from the trees. He lied about what he said to the widow - even after Kelly sold his soul trying to excuse him. It's a completely narcissistic POS that you're defending. By the time you see the forest, it'll be gone. Seriously bro, I think you're lost.

recall that i take the position of defending the CIC and office of the president to further the discussion. someone has to do it so as resemble anything even be close to a fair discussion. i have no problem jumping ship. im a true independent. the country and the people in it is all that matters to me.

let me share another story. there is another 8 days left in the month and we just had the best month at my south side of chicago dental practice in terms of collections in the last 9 years. patients with urgent needs for nearly a decade finally have the money or credit to come take care of themselves again. i care far more about them than any political agenda. last month was our second best month in 9 years. and what we have scheduled in december looks to be the best month in 16 years. we might double our best month by far. I've hired 2 new people in the last 3 months and my current staff is all working full time after nearly a decade of 30 hours per week. so my inner city, south side of chicago practice is rapidly growing and almost strictly because the credit markets have opened back up. money has been unleashed again.

as an aside, the credit market began to open back up in 2016. a smudge. now they are open full throttle and it has finally been "felt" on the southside of chicago so that my dear patients can afford their medical/dental needs. and we're just talking co-pays and stuff insurance doesn't cover.

This kind of stuff matters to me soooooooooooo much more than how poorly an awkward president fumbles and already awkward and difficult phone call. it matters more to me than anything john kelly says or doesn't say. it matters more than any russian trump does or does deny a visa.

real people. real americans. in my neck of the woods. being able to afford their medical/dental needs. especially dental. because this tends to be the last thing people "do" for themselves. when they are getting their teeth fixed in the poorest of communities it is a GREAT sign! It means people are back to work. or have available credit and taking care of everything else. dentistry is always last. everything else first, then they come see us.

This matters most to me. My people. in my community. are doing well again. and have a few extra bucks in their pockets. Its been nearly a decade!!!!!!!

Bottom line: when the big bans have confidence in the economy they loosen the purse strings for all of us. more money is in circulation so to ease the exchange of goods and services. it's unfortunate to be at the mercy of the big banks as i've stated over and over for 60 pages. but it is what it is. the credit markets are open again. every day folks can take care of their needs which puts more and more people to work. which allows more and more people to take care of their needs.

These things "trump" all of this identity politics bull crap for me. these are the "first order" politics. getting people back to work. opening up the credit markets. getting more money back into U.S. circulation. after that, then i worry about how polished my politicians are and how good they are at lying to me. so i feel better about myself. dont ever forget that, folks. it's all a dog and pony show.

[popper]

Then the American public will find out the cost!

And the Canadians and the Mexicans - why, because our politicians can't explain why it is beneficial for all parties.

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/naftas-impact-u-s-economy-facts/

A some Google search can provide the benefits and drawbacks of NAFTA. One simple way to explain the benefits of NAFTA is to simply ask Americans if they want to pay more for everyday items like groceries and luxury items like cars. Ripping up a free trade agreement will have negative effects on every party and will hit those at the lowest income level the hardest. It won't bring back jobs either. NAFTA has been successful for Americans but it could be more successful if the people would stop voting in Republicans who only want to give tax cuts to the rich instead of redistributing the gains from free trade.

Just a reminder that R's supported legislation whereby approx. 45% of American households pay no income tax at all. I believe the EITC was an R idea. Seems to me the R's have been very good (tax wise) to lower income Americans. Not only do they not have to contribute via income taxes but millions of them receive cash payments from the treasury in the form of EITC. How can it possibly get any better for them? Any tax cuts by definition have to go to the middle class and the rich because they're the only ones paying them.