Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIV

[keynote]

Word on Twitter is that the Suns asked the Knicks for Frank Ntlikina and Willy Hernangomez for Bledsoe. That's not a king's ransom, but it's still more young pieces than we could throw together in a trade package (that doesn't include Oubre).

[gravytrain24]

EG will find a way, it may be all small parts of his master plan to appease the star. Resign John, trade for Bledsoe, sign/trade for Boogie. The Washington Sun-Wildcats

[gambitx777]

Word on Twitter is that the Suns asked the Knicks for Frank Ntlikina and Willy Hernangomez for Bledsoe. That's not a king's ransom, but it's still more young pieces than we could throw together in a trade package (that doesn't include Oubre).

yeah remember what indiana was asking for PG and what the nicks wanted to melo and what the bulls were said to be asking for buttler? bleasdsoe is not even close to those guys level, hes not going to a premium

[JWizmentality]

EG will find a way, it may be all small parts of his master plan to appease the star. Resign John, trade for Bledsoe, sign/trade for Boogie. The Washington Sun-Wildcats

When was the last time Grunfail did any trade mildly impressive that caught you by surprise? Pierce was the last I could think of, and that only lasted a year.

[gravytrain24]

EG will find a way, it may be all small parts of his master plan to appease the star. Resign John, trade for Bledsoe, sign/trade for Boogie. The Washington Sun-Wildcats

When was the last time Grunfail did any trade mildly impressive that caught you by surprise? Pierce was the last I could think of, and that only lasted a year.

He won't, just a pipe dream. I think the last trade was getting rid of Kwame for Caron, maybe Gortat too but i dont remember what he gave up.

[gambitx777]

I mean look I think the sun and EG have a good relationship lol obviously lol. So make a phone call. But don't ever pay!

[NatP4]

I mean look I think the sun and EG have a good relationship lol obviously lol. So make a phone call. But don't ever pay!

Mahinmi and a 1st come on ernie!

[nate33]

I mean look I think the sun and EG have a good relationship lol obviously lol. So make a phone call. But don't ever pay!

Mahinmi and a 1st come on ernie!

Yeah, I hope he has made that offer. We can't really offer more, except maybe Sato (which probably doesn't move the needle).

Backup PG remains the biggest weakness on the roster. With the emergence of Oubre as a legit 30 mpg rotation player, all we need is one high quality combo guard and we're a legit, second-tier contender. With Bledsoe, we'd be 7 deep in starting-caliber talent with our 8th, 9th and 10th men being competent role players (Meeks, Scott and Smith). That's a really strong team! And there's plenty of depth to scale back the minutes of Wall, Beal and Porter to 33 or so.

[NatP4]

I mean look I think the sun and EG have a good relationship lol obviously lol. So make a phone call. But don't ever pay!

Mahinmi and a 1st come on ernie!

Yeah, I hope he has made that offer. We can't really offer more, except maybe Sato (which probably doesn't move the needle).

Backup PG remains the biggest weakness on the roster. With the emergence of Oubre as a legit 30 mpg rotation player, all we need is one high quality combo guard and we're a legit, second-tier contender. With Bledsoe, we'd be 7 deep in starting-caliber talent with our 8th, 9th and 10th men being competent role players (Meeks, Scott and Smith). That's a really strong team! And there's plenty of depth to scale back the minutes of Wall, Beal and Porter to 33 or so.

Yep, Smith would be a solid backup 5, and you have the option of going small with Morris at the 5.

Haven't read anywhere that we are even interested though. At the very least, we will have our draft pick available to go get an impact backup point, which seems like the only glaring need. I would probably call about Reggie Jackson at some point when Detroit inevitably realizes that they are building nothing.

[NatP4]

I've posted about him before, but once again, Jerian Grant is putting up great advanced stats and is now averaging 10&6 and playing great defense. He's already 25 years old and I wonder if the bulls would move him when Zach Lavine and Kris Dunn return. He would be a great fit next to Wall or Beal with his ability to play off ball.

[payitforward]

Mahinmi and a 1st come on ernie!

Yeah, I hope he has made that offer. We can't really offer more, except maybe Sato (which probably doesn't move the needle).

Backup PG remains the biggest weakness on the roster. With the emergence of Oubre as a legit 30 mpg rotation player, all we need is one high quality combo guard and we're a legit, second-tier contender. With Bledsoe, we'd be 7 deep in starting-caliber talent with our 8th, 9th and 10th men being competent role players (Meeks, Scott and Smith). That's a really strong team! And there's plenty of depth to scale back the minutes of Wall, Beal and Porter to 33 or so.

I don't see this, to tell the truth. For a lot of reasons.

For one thing, Bledsoe in place of Mahinmi on our roster makes us stronger at backup PG but weaker at backup C. It's natural to focus on the gain & explain away the loss, but it would be foolish to over-estimate how good Smith is. He's had a long career, & he's never even approached "good."

Gortat will be heading for 36 years old when his contract runs out at the end of next year. At which point we'll be looking at our first year of Wall's mega-salary. $92m for 3 guys. Oubre will need his 2d contract that year as well. There will be no way to retain Bledsoe & no way to acquire a starting-quality Center. &, b/c we have jettisoned so many draft picks, we will have no young guys developing on the bench.

This is not how to build a team.

Now, if I thought a move gave us a legitimate shot at a title this year or next, any move at all, of course I'd do it. But, what you are calling "a legit, second-tier contender" translates, IMO, into the 8th or 9th best team of 30. I.e. scraping at getting into the top 25%. I.e. there's no title shot short-term.

All the problems this team has come from giving away picks -- & making so many bad ones as well. It's not possible to solve any of those problems by doubling down & trading away another pick.

[nate33]

Mahinmi and a 1st come on ernie!

Yeah, I hope he has made that offer. We can't really offer more, except maybe Sato (which probably doesn't move the needle).

Backup PG remains the biggest weakness on the roster. With the emergence of Oubre as a legit 30 mpg rotation player, all we need is one high quality combo guard and we're a legit, second-tier contender. With Bledsoe, we'd be 7 deep in starting-caliber talent with our 8th, 9th and 10th men being competent role players (Meeks, Scott and Smith). That's a really strong team! And there's plenty of depth to scale back the minutes of Wall, Beal and Porter to 33 or so.

I don't see this, to tell the truth. For a lot of reasons.

For one thing, Bledsoe in place of Mahinmi on our roster makes us stronger at backup PG but weaker at backup C. It's natural to focus on the gain & explain away the loss, but it would be foolish to over-estimate how good Smith is. He's had a long career, & he's never even approached "good."

Gortat will be heading for 36 years old when his contract runs out at the end of next year. At which point we'll be looking at our first year of Wall's mega-salary. $92m for 3 guys. Oubre will need his 2d contract that year as well. There will be no way to retain Bledsoe & no way to acquire a starting-quality Center. &, b/c we have jettisoned so many draft picks, we will have no young guys developing on the bench.

This is not how to build a team.

Now, if I thought a move gave us a legitimate shot at a title this year or next, any move at all, of course I'd do it. But, what you are calling "a legit, second-tier contender" translates, IMO, into the 8th or 9th best team of 30. I.e. scraping at getting into the top 25%. I.e. there's no title shot short-term.

All the problems this team has come from giving away picks -- & making so many bad ones as well. It's not possible to solve any of those problems by doubling down & trading away another pick.

This team, with Bledsoe, is the 2nd best team in the East easily, and might be better than Cleveland. I say "second tier" mostly because no team can really beat a healthy Golden State. And the cap issues are actually addressed quite nicely. Bledsoe's contract is a year shorter than Mahinmi's and he would come off the books just as Wall's salary balloons.

I recognize the long term challenge represented by Wall's extension, but this deal actually helps that issue somewhat by dumping Mahinmi. Yes, we sacrifice perhaps the 24th pick in the draft, and that guy has a small chance of being a low salary contributor down the road, but I think it's worth it for a 2-year run with a legit shot at reaching the Finals.

The depth issue at center is a concern, but the benefit of adding 28 minutes a night of Bledsoe instead of Frazier/Meeks by far outweighs the downgrade from Mahinmi to Smith for 15 minutes a night. In some matchups, playing Smith over Mahinmi isn't even a downgrade.

[Ruzious]

Mahinmi and a 1st come on ernie!

Yeah, I hope he has made that offer. We can't really offer more, except maybe Sato (which probably doesn't move the needle).

Backup PG remains the biggest weakness on the roster. With the emergence of Oubre as a legit 30 mpg rotation player, all we need is one high quality combo guard and we're a legit, second-tier contender. With Bledsoe, we'd be 7 deep in starting-caliber talent with our 8th, 9th and 10th men being competent role players (Meeks, Scott and Smith). That's a really strong team! And there's plenty of depth to scale back the minutes of Wall, Beal and Porter to 33 or so.

I don't see this, to tell the truth. For a lot of reasons.

For one thing, Bledsoe in place of Mahinmi on our roster makes us stronger at backup PG but weaker at backup C. It's natural to focus on the gain & explain away the loss, but it would be foolish to over-estimate how good Smith is. He's had a long career, & he's never even approached "good."

Gortat will be heading for 36 years old when his contract runs out at the end of next year. At which point we'll be looking at our first year of Wall's mega-salary. $92m for 3 guys. Oubre will need his 2d contract that year as well. There will be no way to retain Bledsoe & no way to acquire a starting-quality Center. &, b/c we have jettisoned so many draft picks, we will have no young guys developing on the bench.

This is not how to build a team.

Now, if I thought a move gave us a legitimate shot at a title this year or next, any move at all, of course I'd do it. But, what you are calling "a legit, second-tier contender" translates, IMO, into the 8th or 9th best team of 30. I.e. scraping at getting into the top 25%. I.e. there's no title shot short-term.

All the problems this team has come from giving away picks -- & making so many bad ones as well. It's not possible to solve any of those problems by doubling down & trading away another pick.

And again, Bledsoe would be here only this season and next - while the 1st rounder is gone. That for a backup guard who probably would hate being a backup guard and has one removed meniscus and one repaired meciscus. He's a capable player, but he's no longer the brilliant athlete he used to be. Not to mention, he's not a very reliable 3 point shooter. If we're going to trade assets to get a 3rd guard, I want it to be for someone who will spread out defenses.

[Kanyewest]

EG will find a way, it may be all small parts of his master plan to appease the star. Resign John, trade for Bledsoe, sign/trade for Boogie. The Washington Sun-Wildcats

When was the last time Grunfail did any trade mildly impressive that caught you by surprise? Pierce was the last I could think of, and that only lasted a year.

The Ramon Sessions trade, getting Jared Dudley for nothing, and the draft selection of Oubre. Also a lot of questionable moves before and after.



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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Yeah, I hope he has made that offer. We can't really offer more, except maybe Sato (which probably doesn't move the needle).

Backup PG remains the biggest weakness on the roster. With the emergence of Oubre as a legit 30 mpg rotation player, all we need is one high quality combo guard and we're a legit, second-tier contender. With Bledsoe, we'd be 7 deep in starting-caliber talent with our 8th, 9th and 10th men being competent role players (Meeks, Scott and Smith). That's a really strong team! And there's plenty of depth to scale back the minutes of Wall, Beal and Porter to 33 or so.

I don't see this, to tell the truth. For a lot of reasons.

For one thing, Bledsoe in place of Mahinmi on our roster makes us stronger at backup PG but weaker at backup C. It's natural to focus on the gain & explain away the loss, but it would be foolish to over-estimate how good Smith is. He's had a long career, & he's never even approached "good."

Gortat will be heading for 36 years old when his contract runs out at the end of next year. At which point we'll be looking at our first year of Wall's mega-salary. $92m for 3 guys. Oubre will need his 2d contract that year as well. There will be no way to retain Bledsoe & no way to acquire a starting-quality Center. &, b/c we have jettisoned so many draft picks, we will have no young guys developing on the bench.

This is not how to build a team.

Now, if I thought a move gave us a legitimate shot at a title this year or next, any move at all, of course I'd do it. But, what you are calling "a legit, second-tier contender" translates, IMO, into the 8th or 9th best team of 30. I.e. scraping at getting into the top 25%. I.e. there's no title shot short-term.

All the problems this team has come from giving away picks -- & making so many bad ones as well. It's not possible to solve any of those problems by doubling down & trading away another pick.

And again, Bledsoe would be here only this season and next - while the 1st rounder is gone. That for a backup guard who probably would hate being a backup guard and has one removed meniscus and one repaired meciscus. He's a capable player, but he's no longer the brilliant athlete he used to be. Not to mention, he's not a very reliable 3 point shooter. If we're going to trade assets to get a 3rd guard, I want it to be for someone who will spread out defenses.

I agree.

Right now Meeks is being very effective offensively.

It is not worth giving up a first-round pick for short term rental of Bledsoe. Getting rid of Mahinmi's contract would be nice but I don't think it's worth it in the long run.

Washington can't keep giving away first round picks and second round picks. That is why the bench is bereft of talented players.

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[keynote]

With Bledsoe, we'd be 7 deep in starting-caliber talent with our 8th, 9th and 10th men being competent role players (Meeks, Scott and Smith). That's a really strong team!

This is not how to build a team.

Now, if I thought a move gave us a legitimate shot at a title this year or next, any move at all, of course I'd do it. But, what you are calling "a legit, second-tier contender" translates, IMO, into the 8th or 9th best team of 30. I.e. scraping at getting into the top 25%. I.e. there's no title shot short-term.

I agree with nate33. I think the Wizards top 6 + Bledsoe = a legit Contender. We'll be a little thin at the 5, but once we establish Contender status (with a capital "C"), we'll likely be able pick up someone (better than Ochefu) off the waiver wire in time for the stretch run.

While I certainly agree that EG has been far too frivolous with our draft picks up until this point, those traded picks and missed opportunities are all sunk costs. We can't go back and draft the young bench big and combo guard we now need; we can't go back to buy the rights to Jordan "self-alley oop" Bell.

But, now that we've locked up our Big 3 to max contracts, we're constrained going forward by how we can improve the roster. We all agree that we're (at least) a Piece away from being a legitimate contender, but we won't have the cap space or young trade assets to acquire that Piece. As of now, our only chance of winning with this core during this current contract window is to mortgage a bit more of our future to acquire a distressed asset --and hope that this asset flourishes in DC and becomes our missing Piece.

Now, it's not always easy to predict when an asset will become distressed. But it's not impossible, either. Bledsoe's been on the trading block for a while; it's not that surprising that his stock has (presumably) dropped. Perhaps Cousins or Davis will be next. But at some point, we should try our best to grab one of these distressed assets. And, given our lack of solid trade assets, it'll likely require at least one future pick to do it.

And again, Bledsoe would be here only this season and next - while the 1st rounder is gone. That for a backup guard who probably would hate being a backup guard and has one removed meniscus and one repaired meciscus. He's a capable player, but he's no longer the brilliant athlete he used to be. Not to mention, he's not a very reliable 3 point shooter. If we're going to trade assets to get a 3rd guard, I want it to be for someone who will spread out defenses.

I'd love to get an Eric Gordon type -- but Gordon clearly isn't available. Who's the ideal third guard who might become available?

Someone else mentioned Reggie Jackson. I think I prefer Bledsoe. Younger combo guards like Dipo and Waiters aren't likely to become distressed assets anytime soon. Any other options?

[payitforward]

Yeah, I hope he has made that offer. We can't really offer more, except maybe Sato (which probably doesn't move the needle).

Backup PG remains the biggest weakness on the roster. With the emergence of Oubre as a legit 30 mpg rotation player, all we need is one high quality combo guard and we're a legit, second-tier contender. With Bledsoe, we'd be 7 deep in starting-caliber talent with our 8th, 9th and 10th men being competent role players (Meeks, Scott and Smith). That's a really strong team! And there's plenty of depth to scale back the minutes of Wall, Beal and Porter to 33 or so.

I don't see this, to tell the truth. For a lot of reasons.

For one thing, Bledsoe in place of Mahinmi on our roster makes us stronger at backup PG but weaker at backup C. It's natural to focus on the gain & explain away the loss, but it would be foolish to over-estimate how good Smith is. He's had a long career, & he's never even approached "good."

Gortat will be heading for 36 years old when his contract runs out at the end of next year. At which point we'll be looking at our first year of Wall's mega-salary. $92m for 3 guys. Oubre will need his 2d contract that year as well. There will be no way to retain Bledsoe & no way to acquire a starting-quality Center. &, b/c we have jettisoned so many draft picks, we will have no young guys developing on the bench.

This is not how to build a team.

Now, if I thought a move gave us a legitimate shot at a title this year or next, any move at all, of course I'd do it. But, what you are calling "a legit, second-tier contender" translates, IMO, into the 8th or 9th best team of 30. I.e. scraping at getting into the top 25%. I.e. there's no title shot short-term.

All the problems this team has come from giving away picks -- & making so many bad ones as well. It's not possible to solve any of those problems by doubling down & trading away another pick.

This team, with Bledsoe, is the 2nd best team in the East easily, and might be better than Cleveland. I say "second tier" mostly because no team can really beat a healthy Golden State. And the cap issues are actually addressed quite nicely. Bledsoe's contract is a year shorter than Mahinmi's and he would come off the books just as Wall's salary balloons.

I recognize the long term challenge represented by Wall's extension, but this deal actually helps that issue somewhat by dumping Mahinmi. Yes, we sacrifice perhaps the 24th pick in the draft, and that guy has a small chance of being a low salary contributor down the road, but I think it's worth it for a 2-year run with a legit shot at reaching the Finals.

The depth issue at center is a concern, but the benefit of adding 28 minutes a night of Bledsoe instead of Frazier/Meeks by far outweighs the downgrade from Mahinmi to Smith for 15 minutes a night. In some matchups, playing Smith over Mahinmi isn't even a downgrade.

80% of the disagreement between us is captured in the difference between the 2 statements I bolded above.

For the rest, my main point was that we wouldn't be able to re-sign Bledsoe -- hence, the trade has no opportunity to enhance our core going forward. Note that by "core" I don't mean "top players" -- or not exclusively. I see the 2 R2 picks GS bought, which brought them McCaw & Bell, as having manufactured ways to add to their core.

I certainly agree that the trade would give us a better chance of winning the East this year & next. How much better is the question? To me, at least, that's what you'd have to weigh against giving up a R1 pick.

[nate33]

80% of the disagreement between us is captured in the difference between the 2 statements I bolded above.

For the rest, my main point was that we wouldn't be able to re-sign Bledsoe -- hence, the trade has no opportunity to enhance our core going forward. Note that by "core" I don't mean "top players" -- or not exclusively. I see the 2 R2 picks GS bought, which brought them McCaw & Bell, as having manufactured ways to add to their core.

I certainly agree that the trade would give us a better chance of winning the East this year & next. How much better is the question? To me, at least, that's what you'd have to weigh against giving up a R1 pick.

We're not talking about a lottery pick here. We're talking about perhaps the 24th-28th pick in the draft. It's highly unlikely that the guy will pan out to be a full time starter. More likely, he'll be useless for his first two years and, if we're lucky, he'll develop into a rotation caliber bench player by his third season who plays 15-20 minutes a night - a guy about as good as Trevor Booker. We'd have him for 2 more years on that cheap rookie contract, at which point he'll be bid out of our reach.

We wouldn't be sacrificing that much.

The main reason this deal won't happen is that Bledsoe will probably cost much more than the #25ish pick plus a bad contract.

[barelyawake]

Mahinmi, if he remains uninjured, is absolutely a valuable commodity to us. Mahinmi fills the void when Gortat gets into one of his jags where he plays matador defense and doesn't want to pick-up foul calls. Especially once the games slow down in post season, we absolutely need a defensive seven footer to roll out there. Do I like his contract? No. Would I like better? Yes. But, this fantasy of putting anyone else on our current roster into Mahinni's shoes is asking for a lay-up drill much like we got last year when he was out.

Wanta trade Mahinmi for Bledsoe? Great! Just also somehow get us a defensive seven footer. Because we absolutely need one.

We are fine at SG-C on the bench if we just rotate right. Hopefully, by Allstar break some vet point sees our record and picks here.

PS the problem is taking out Wall and Beal together rather than using Meeks as Beal, and Beal as the bench alpha/distributor more often.

[payitforward]

EG will find a way, it may be all small parts of his master plan to appease the star. Resign John, trade for Bledsoe, sign/trade for Boogie. The Washington Sun-Wildcats

When was the last time Grunfail did any trade mildly impressive that caught you by surprise? Pierce was the last I could think of, and that only lasted a year.

The Ramon Sessions trade, getting Jared Dudley for nothing, and the draft selection of Oubre. Also a lot of questionable moves before and after.

He didn't get Dudley for nothing. He traded a R2 pick for him. Trading a pick for a guy you keep for one year then let walk for nothing... no, that is *not* a good move.

The Sessions trade was better, certainly. They got him for Andre Miller. They had acquired Miller exactly 1 year earlier. & what did that deal look like, you ask? What did we give for Miller?

Spoiler:

To acquire Andre Miller, whom we kept for a year, we gave up the guy we'd picked #6 in the draft a couple of years earlier (Jan Vesely), the FA point guard we'd signed on the first day of free agency only a few months earlier (Eric Maynor), & not one but two R2 picks. Like the Bogdanovic trade, the main function of this move was to hide Ernie's mistakes -- Miller was persona non grata in Denver, where he'd had a big disagreement w/ the coach & wasn't being played at all. They'd have taken a ham sandwich for him.