Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIV

[Ruzious]

Yeah, even if we traded for Cousins, how would we keep him? The lux tax Ted would have to pay would be gastronomical, and we would not be able to afford a bench.

[NatP4]

I don't follow you PIF, we would have to send Jason Smith+Gortat or Mahinmi which would either total 19 million or 21 million off of next years payroll. We would have Cousins' bird rights after trading for him midseason, so we could go into luxury tax territory to re sign him.
That would leave us around 137 mill after you re sign Cousins to the max which is the EXACT payroll of the Warriors and Cavs. Neither of those teams have a clue how they are going to keep their roster together in the future, If ted/ernie aren't willing to spend the same as those other teams, we won't ever beat them anyways.

you're telling me that Wall-Beal-Oubre-Porter-Cousins doesn't beat the warriors? it would atleast really challenge them and put a major spotlight on the Wizards.

[Rafael122]

Cousins speculation should probably die unless something comes out that he's not happy. He and AD are getting their numbers and neither has to sacrifice anything to do it. Cousins was willing to extend with the Kings so his tolerance for losing is high. It's just not happening.

I've actually been kind of intrigued by Randle as a small ball 5 lately...his defense on Wall was incredibly impressive. He's got very quick feet. Rebounds very well. Might not be that expensive to snatch from LA. He's no improvement on anyone we have offensively, but he can switch onto guards and might be perfect for the direction the league is headed lately. Dislike him as a 4...

They're getting their numbers but they're not winning.

[NatP4]

after next year obviously we would be screwed, but so are the warriors when it comes to re signing Klay and KD in that same year. How are the cavs going to re sign IT with 120 million already on the books for next season?

every team is going to have these problems

[Dark Faze]

I don't mind getting Cousins, but PIF is right that we can't afford to send out Otto in any trade sans for Kevin Durant these days.

In terms of the cap...if you don't pay the tax you don't have a chance. But we can't really acquire Cousins for trash unless he literally demands to be traded to Washington.

I ask again, do people think Julius Randle can play the 5?

[NatP4]

Yeah, even if we traded for Cousins, how would we keep him? The lux tax Ted would have to pay would be gastronomical, and we would not be able to afford a bench.

Sato
Meeks
Oubre
Scott
Mahinmi

all on the books for this season and next season.

We would have to trade Otto and offer Kelly the qualifying offer i guess? maybe Cousins takes a discount? like I said, the warriors and cavs have the same predicament going forward.

its not like any of the big contracts are not moveable besides maybe Wall at 37-42 million. Could easily flip any of them for younger/cheaper players to fill out the team.

[Ruzious]

Yeah, even if we traded for Cousins, how would we keep him? The lux tax Ted would have to pay would be gastronomical, and we would not be able to afford a bench.

Sato
Meeks
Oubre
Scott
Mahinmi

all on the books for this season and next season.

We would have to trade Otto and offer Kelly the qualifying offer i guess? maybe Cousins takes a discount? like I said, the warriors and cavs have the same predicament going forward.

its not like any of the big contracts are not moveable besides maybe Wall at 37-42 million. Could easily flip any of them for younger/cheaper players to fill out the team.

Probably have to get someone to take Mahinmi. It's not impossible, but it's unlikely.

[pcbothwel]

Yeah, even if we traded for Cousins, how would we keep him? The lux tax Ted would have to pay would be gastronomical, and we would not be able to afford a bench.

Sato
Meeks
Oubre
Scott
Mahinmi

all on the books for this season and next season.

We would have to trade Otto and offer Kelly the qualifying offer i guess? maybe Cousins takes a discount? like I said, the warriors and cavs have the same predicament going forward.

its not like any of the big contracts are not moveable besides maybe Wall at 37-42 million. Could easily flip any of them for younger/cheaper players to fill out the team.

Probably have to get someone to take Mahinmi. It's not impossible, but it's unlikely.

Yeah, I just dont see it. Anyway, I come back to the probably conclusion that we would have to give up Oubre and Gortat at a minimum. And I have zero interest in that. I REALLY want to see this 1-4 get some more time together, because it looks deadly

[NatP4]

Sato
Meeks
Oubre
Scott
Mahinmi

all on the books for this season and next season.

We would have to trade Otto and offer Kelly the qualifying offer i guess? maybe Cousins takes a discount? like I said, the warriors and cavs have the same predicament going forward.

its not like any of the big contracts are not moveable besides maybe Wall at 37-42 million. Could easily flip any of them for younger/cheaper players to fill out the team.

Probably have to get someone to take Mahinmi. It's not impossible, but it's unlikely.

Yeah, I just dont see it. Anyway, I come back to the probably conclusion that we would have to give up Oubre and Gortat at a minimum. And I have zero interest in that. I REALLY want to see this 1-4 get some more time together, because it looks deadly

I don't disagree with that at all, Oubre still has an extremely high ceiling. Looking at improving the backup PG position should probably be the more realistic focus right now.

[truwizfan4evr]

I don't think pelicans would be willing to trade Cousins. And I wouldn't want to lose kelly or porter in the deal either. Let's go after Okafor and a pick maybe. He's a good offensive low post player. Not the best defender but we can Bring him off the bench?

[truwizfan4evr]

A backup pg I wish we can trade for is Shabazz Napier. He plays well when he gets decent mins and a very decent backup point guard. He would be cheap and give us depth on our second unit.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

And GSW declined their option on Kevon Looney. I'd love to get him - though not sure how without giving up a pick - maybe exchange 1sts with GSW?

Give them McCollough and swap picks.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[payitforward]

I don't follow you PIF, we would have to send Jason Smith+Gortat or Mahinmi which would either total 19 million or 21 million off of next years payroll. We would have Cousins' bird rights after trading for him midseason, so we could go into luxury tax territory to re sign him.
That would leave us around 137 mill after you re sign Cousins to the max which is the EXACT payroll of the Warriors and Cavs. Neither of those teams have a clue how they are going to keep their roster together in the future, If ted/ernie aren't willing to spend the same as those other teams, we won't ever beat them anyways.

you're telling me that Wall-Beal-Oubre-Porter-Cousins doesn't beat the warriors? it would atleast really challenge them and put a major spotlight on the Wizards.

Sigh...

Right now, we have 7 guys under contract for next year for a total of @$113m. Lets add Smith & Oubre to make it 9 guys at just over $120m. Assuming for a moment that we could trade Smith & Gortat for Cousins (which we couldn't, but of course we could continue to mortgage our future by adding draft picks) & that we re-signed Cousins to a max deal, we would have 8 players instead of 9 at a total of $127m.

Suppose Meeks picks up his option. Now we are at 9 guys for $130.5m. Feel free to tell me how we add 6 players good enough to be of use and arrive at your figure of $137m.

Not to mention that besides their peak players, Golden State has young guys who are very good & have development to come. We have one such player in Oubre. & since our future is heavily mortgaged w/ picks traded away, we won't get more of them easily either.

The core of this problem is not that we can't trade for Cousins. The core of the problem is that we don't have good ways to get better at all. I.e. the core is Ernie & the way he manages a franchise.

[gambitx777]

Cousins is not the answer. . We have a good enough Top to contend. we need to lift the bottom of the team up and upgrade where we can, its time to just do what we can to upgrade where we can.

we need to target more obtainable players and look for ways to move Ian and keep the 2018 first because we need it !

try to go after oakafur, or robin lopez, just look for ways to make us a little better but more importantly better or at least as good, or not worse at a lower price and look for upgrades on the streets.

[deneem4]

but PIF, a championship, a Washington Wizards championship...

...I would not fault Ernie one bit for making this move to compete for a championship for a couple of years. We aren't beating GS with hail mary 2nd round picks through Wall's prime, especially with Ernie drafting.

1. We wouldn't win a championship.
2. It's not "a couple of years"; it's this year only. Cousins is expiring this year. Unless you think they are taking Gortat & Mahinmi or something equally unlikely, we wouldn't even be able to afford to field a team next year ($110m for 5 players), let alone the following one.
3. We don't have any "hail mary 2d round picks." We also aren't better with Ernie picking cheap FAs than with him drafting.
4. There is NO WAY to add enough productivity to compete for a title "through Wall's prime."

Like I say... wake up.

edit: & then you change your mind 10 minutes later!

Why would we not win a championship?
What weakness would that team have?
Even with a terrible bench we can stagger wall n cousins minutes

[payitforward]

...1. We wouldn't win a championship.

Why would we not win a championship?
What weakness would that team have?
Even with a terrible bench we can stagger wall n cousins minutes

It's always hard to know what to say to a true believer -- not just in basketball, of course. It can be religion, politics, whatever....

In saying that, I'm not being a downer -- we're a good team, a very good team, & I expect us to have a really good year. We could -- we should -- win a game or two or three more than last year. But, this generation of the Wizards has no shot whatever at contending for a title unless somebody already on the team unexpectedly shoots through the roof. Ernie's made too many mistakes too many times over & over, & we have too few assets to use in bringing in more talent. Sorry.

John Wall is a very very good player, but he's not as good as you think he is. Cousins is enormously talented, & this year he's off to the best start of his career -- but it's not as good a start as you think it is. Oubre is a super promising prospect, a kid who might turn out to be an outstanding player, but his terrific start doesn't mean he's arrived yet (which is not to take anything away from him, not at all). Beal is starting to hit his stride again this year, but... he's a shooting guard. Porter is the only guy any fan underrates; at this point in the season, he has been by far the best player on the Washington Wizards -- & that's by a lot not a little.

It doesn't matter whether you stagger Wall/Cousins -- it matters what they produce when they're on the floor & how many guys you have who produce at a high level. Your players have to play all 240 minutes of every game, & we don't have enough good enough players -- even if we had Cousins -- to even sniff the level GS is at.

I don't expect you to go along with me, deneem, but you asked so I answer. I don't expect it, because you are the guy who has said that John Wall has started off the season "great," when in fact he's started off the season horribly. His shooting is significantly down from last year, his turnovers are up from last year, his steals are down from last year, & his rebounding has fallen through the floor. Don't get me wrong; I'm sure he'll bounce back. But so far he hasn't been good at all, & you were bragging on him.

Bragging b/c he's dunked the ball a lot. Who gives a sh#t. A dunk is 2 points, that's all it is. John's 2-point FG% so far this year is just over 41% -- the worst of his career. In fact, overall, his shooting hasn't been this bad since his 2d year in the league.

I'm not hating on him, btw -- by the end of the season I fully expect him to rank among the top handful of PGs in the league, as he did last year. It's just that your assessment of him tells me that you aren't judging him or the team rationally -- which explains why you imagine that adding Cousins would put us in GS's league.

[Dark Faze]

Luol Deng, Clarkson, Randle, 2018 2nd, 2019 second to WSH

Gortat, Markieff, filler contracts (Sato, McCullough, Sheldon) to LAL

Why for WSH: We need a trade like this to add young talent. Buy low on a guy like Randle and pray he can turn into an athletic switch everything 5 for us that can board, while extending him on a cap friendly deal. Clarkson, again, young, sixth man potential. We keep our first round pick this year for once, and get an additional two seconds. If our team breaks without Gortat despite having Smith, Randle, and Mahinmi to play the 5 then we weren't going to do anything in the post season anyway and our first rounder improves.

The Gortat and Kieff contracts are TIME bombs. Two summers away when Wall makes 40 a season, these guys will be up for free agency. Gortat is a fountain of youth so he'll probably be Pau Gasol like in terms of aging--doing just enough to get a mid tier center contract for a couple more seasons. Our desperation from being maxed out would pump that up even more, either through years or salary. Similar thing with Kieff except he's younger. Backed against a wall where we generally have no picks, no cap space, two guys we shouldn't extend will have every advantage over us in the open market. The Deng contract is terrible. Just cut and stretch him.

Why for LAL: They were desperate enough for cap space that they traded their best core piece for it in Russell. So they've shown their hand already that they aren't willing to pay much at all to Randle. Add to that they don't play him much at center and have good replacement options at the 4 with Kuzma and Nance Jr. Losing Clarkson is something they don't prefer, but we're talking about nearly 40 million in cap space savings two summers from now. Lonzo/George/Ingram/Markieff/Gortat is a squad you can sell George on with the promise of bringing in another star the next summer.

[NatP4]

I'd go pick up Hezonja and Okafor for nothing, why the hell not? they have talent.

get the bird rights and give them a chance. Our bench is ass anyways

[payitforward]

I'd go pick up Hezonja and Okafor for nothing, why the hell not? they have talent.

get the bird rights and give them a chance. Our bench is ass anyways

In principle, sure! & somebody will, though maybe it'll take until the off season when they can be signed w/o giving up an asset.

If we were to go after one of them at present, I don't see what we have to give in a trade that would be tempting to Philly or Orlando. I guess maybe Mac, but IMO it would be a mistake to trade him.

[pcbothwel]

I'd go pick up Hezonja and Okafor for nothing, why the hell not? they have talent.

get the bird rights and give them a chance. Our bench is ass anyways

In principle, sure! & somebody will, though maybe it'll take until the off season when they can be signed w/o giving up an asset.

If we were to go after one of them at present, I don't see what we have to give in a trade that would be tempting to Philly or Orlando. I guess maybe Mac, but IMO it would be a mistake to trade him.

I like Philly, but not for Okafor. They have like 10 guys under contract next year, 1 if not 2 1st round picks, and 3 2nd round picks in the top 45

They need to consolidate players/ picks. They can either go after a better player, or move up in the draft.
I say we offer our 1st (23-25) and McCullough for their 2nd best 2nd round pick (lower between them and Brooklyn) and TJ McConnell
So essentially they move up 15-17 spots and give up TJ.
Right now, TJ is behind Bayless and Simmons as a ball handler. In the next 2 months, I assume Fultz will make his way back into that rotation as well. TJ gets squeezed.