Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIV

[Dark Faze]

...If it was a top 3 pick in the second it would be another matter, but even then, there are names like Serge Ibaka, ...Nic Batum..., that would have been missed on for the sake of adding a roleplaying pass first bench point guard in your scenario.

Both out of the '08 draft, right. Yeah, it would have been awful to be stuck with the #35 pick in that draft, huh? You know, & all you'd wind up with would be DeAndre Jordan....

C'mon man. The point is, you never know what kind of draft you're going to get. Some drafts--the guys who are chalk between 20-30 aren't as good as the guys between 30 and 37. Other drafts, it's the opposite. Admittedly, there's been talent that's been better that went later than went in the late 1st round, but do you really want to write off 15 picks in a draft for T.J McConnell? That's a big roll of the dice for him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

All in, lads!

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6961070

Wizards get Bledsoe and Chandler.

Wizards send Mahinmi, Smith, Frazier, McCullough and 2017 first round pick lottery protected.

Essentially this gets rid of the Mahinmi contract by giving up a first-round pick. It also picks up two pieces and what I think might get the Wizards to the Finals.

Washington picks up a ton of experience and talent. Phoenix does those guys a solid and at the same time picks up a draft pick.

Thoughts?

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[Ruzious]

... Faze is totally wrong about McConnell's value -- it would be no surprise if he's worth substantially more than the 15-17 draft spots they get in your trade. Not less, as Faze suggests...

Wow, a guy who has had a TS of 50/51 in his age 23/24/25 seasons, and is not a great defender. Sure, he protects the ball, can get guys into their sets and is disciplined, but he's the absolute definition of a backup, slightly sub MLE level player. And you want to go from the low 20's in the draft to a second rounder for him? No..

...and after all what is there but scoring points to tell you how good a guy is, right?

Here's who went #23 from 2011 to 2017:

Spoiler:

Nikola Mirotic, John Jenkins, Solomon Hill, Rodney Hood, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Ante Zizic, OG Anunoby.

Here's who you could have taken #37 in those drafts:

Spoiler:

Chandler Parsons, Khris Middleton, James Ennis, Nikola Jokic, Richaun Holmes, Patrick McCaw, Jordan Bell

Any questions?

I think that points to the incompetence of the folks who do the picking in the NBA. For example, Paul Pressey posted a great list of moves made by the Bucks since they're last management change - the bad moves overwhelmingly out-number the good ones. And they're a playoff team because of one move made by previous management - picking Giannis - and a lot of organizations in the East simply making poor decisions - the ladder reason being why the Wiz have a good shot at winning 50 games.

[queridiculo]

All in, lads!

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6961070

Wizards get Bledsoe and Chandler.

Wizards send Mahinmi, Smith, Frazier, McCullough and 2017 first round pick lottery protected.

Essentially this gets rid of the Mahinmi contract by giving up a first-round pick. It also picks up two pieces and what I think might get the Wizards to the Finals.

Washington picks up a ton of experience and talent. Phoenix does those guys are solid and at the same time picks up a draft pick.

Thoughts?

The Suns end up doing the Wizards a ton of favors for what will likely amount to pick in the mid 20s.

Great for Washington but I have a feeling the Suns can do much better than that.

[payitforward]

Wow, a guy who has had a TS of 50/51 in his age 23/24/25 seasons, and is not a great defender. Sure, he protects the ball, can get guys into their sets and is disciplined, but he's the absolute definition of a backup, slightly sub MLE level player. And you want to go from the low 20's in the draft to a second rounder for him? No..

...and after all what is there but scoring points to tell you how good a guy is, right?

Here's who went #23 from 2011 to 2017:

Spoiler:

Nikola Mirotic, John Jenkins, Solomon Hill, Rodney Hood, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Ante Zizic, OG Anunoby.

Here's who you could have taken #37 in those drafts:

Spoiler:

Chandler Parsons, Khris Middleton, James Ennis, Nikola Jokic, Richaun Holmes, Patrick McCaw, Jordan Bell

Any questions?

I think that points to the incompetence of the folks who do the picking in the NBA. For example, Paul Pressey posted a great list of moves made by the Bucks since they're last management change - the bad moves overwhelmingly out-number the good ones. And they're a playoff team because of one move made by previous management - picking Giannis - and a lot of organizations in the East simply making poor decisions - the ladder reason being why the Wiz have a good shot at winning 50 games.

Do you have a link to the list Pressey made?

I do think there's plenty of incompetence involved -- we have lots of examples to look at right here w/ the Wizards. But, there is another factor: it really isn't easy to sequence all the draft prospects accurately with respect to how they are likely to work out. I've picked a lot of winners simply by using college numbers, but when guys routinely come out after 1 year, there's not a lot to work with in the numbers.

[gravytrain24]

All in, lads!

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6961070

Wizards get Bledsoe and Chandler.

Wizards send Mahinmi, Smith, Frazier, McCullough and 2017 first round pick lottery protected.

Essentially this gets rid of the Mahinmi contract by giving up a first-round pick. It also picks up two pieces and what I think might get the Wizards to the Finals.

Washington picks up a ton of experience and talent. Phoenix does those guys are solid and at the same time picks up a draft pick.

Thoughts?

The Suns end up doing the Wizards a ton of favors for what will likely amount to pick in the mid 20s.

Great for Washington but I have a feeling the Suns can do much better than that.

We can only hope that Grunfeld could pull this off.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

All in, lads!

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6961070

Wizards get Bledsoe and Chandler.

Wizards send Mahinmi, Smith, Frazier, McCullough and 2017 first round pick lottery protected.

Essentially this gets rid of the Mahinmi contract by giving up a first-round pick. It also picks up two pieces and what I think might get the Wizards to the Finals.

Washington picks up a ton of experience and talent. Phoenix does those guys are solid and at the same time picks up a draft pick.

Thoughts?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

Absolutely. Sign me up.

[NatP4]

I already posted that exact trade a couple days ago. It would take another 1st imo

Phoenix would be dropping two more favorable expiring contracts to pick up Mahinmi’s albatross deal. Basically giving up an all star in Bledsoe for a late 20s 1st round pick also.

No way they do it imo. All the other interested teams can offer them a better 1st round pick.

[Ruzious]

...and after all what is there but scoring points to tell you how good a guy is, right?

Here's who went #23 from 2011 to 2017:

Spoiler:

Nikola Mirotic, John Jenkins, Solomon Hill, Rodney Hood, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Ante Zizic, OG Anunoby.

Here's who you could have taken #37 in those drafts:

Spoiler:

Chandler Parsons, Khris Middleton, James Ennis, Nikola Jokic, Richaun Holmes, Patrick McCaw, Jordan Bell

Any questions?

I think that points to the incompetence of the folks who do the picking in the NBA. For example, Paul Pressey posted a great list of moves made by the Bucks since they're last management change - the bad moves overwhelmingly out-number the good ones. And they're a playoff team because of one move made by previous management - picking Giannis - and a lot of organizations in the East simply making poor decisions - the ladder reason being why the Wiz have a good shot at winning 50 games.

Do you have a link to the list Pressey made?

I do think there's plenty of incompetence involved -- we have lots of examples to look at right here w/ the Wizards. But, there is another factor: it really isn't easy to sequence all the draft prospects accurately with respect to how they are likely to work out. I've picked a lot of winners simply by using college numbers, but when guys routinely come out after 1 year, there's not a lot to work with in the numbers.

Here's the link. viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1631045

[Dark Faze]

We don't have a modern frontcourt in any capacity. That's why I wanted to get young picks and Randle for Gortat and Kieff.

We should have learned our lesson from the Boston series. In that series we lost not only because of a poor bench, but also (majorly) because we didn't have a modern defender at the 4/5. Markieff, Ian, and Gortat could not get to Olynyk and Horford on the pop and none of them could defend a guard on the switch.

You've gotta move both guys because A. They aren't that good, B. They are going to hold a gun to our heads in two seasons with a front office that barely wants to go over the tax as is. Kieff took a below market deal and has been watching salaries go up since, he's not going to have any kind of loyalty when it comes salary. Gortat is gonna be 35 and in the same situation. Ted will be forced to go over the tax to keep talent, but it can't be for those guys.

I'd do what I can to bring in young talent, get rid of Gortat, maybe throw Mahinmi some starts to see if he can get out of a rutt--if he continues to be terrible, just cut and stretch him. There's no point in wasting the minutes and roster spot. I'd rather be taking a chance on a guy like Okafor.

[Ruzious]

We don't have a modern frontcourt in any capacity. That's why I wanted to get young picks and Randle for Gortat and Kieff.

We should have learned our lesson from the Boston series. In that series we lost not only because of a poor bench, but also (majorly) because we didn't have a modern defender at the 4/5. Markieff, Ian, and Gortat could not get to Olynyk and Horford on the pop and none of them could defend a guard on the switch.

You've gotta move both guys because A. They aren't that good, B. They are going to hold a gun to our heads in two seasons with a front office that barely wants to go over the tax as is. Kieff took a below market deal and has been watching salaries go up since, he's not going to have any kind of loyalty when it comes salary. Gortat is gonna be 35 and in the same situation. Ted will be forced to go over the tax to keep talent, but it can't be for those guys.

I'd do what I can to bring in young talent, get rid of Gortat, maybe throw Mahinmi some starts to see if he can get out of a rutt--if he continues to be terrible, just cut and stretch him. There's no point in wasting the minutes and roster spot. I'd rather be taking a chance on a guy like Okafor.

I can't say you're wrong, but I don't think Gortat's been the problem. Without Porter and Morris, our PF situation was awful last night, but that was a 1-time thing hopefully. Also, Wall's been part of the problem, and I think we can expect that to change. I agree we have issues up front, but I think you're underrating Gortat. I did like you're thinking about getting Randle and Clarkson.

[Dark Faze]

It's not that I really think he's the problem, it's more like--we've seen what both those guys are about and what they can do. And the clock is ticking on achieving replacements for them. The question is--do you want to extend both in two years? If the answer is no, you need to look for replacements now. If the answer is yes, then aite.

[Ruzious]

It's not that I really think he's the problem, it's more like--we've seen what both those guys are about and what they can do. And the clock is ticking on achieving replacements for them. The question is--do you want to extend both in two years? If the answer is no, you need to look for replacements now. If the answer is yes, then aite.

Yeah, you make compelling points there. If there is a good opportunity, we should consider it.

[NatP4]

Wizards waived Felix and sent Robinson down to the G league.

Wonder what scrub vet they plan on signing?

Maybe making room to acquire Reggie Jackson in a 3 team deal to reunite him with Brooks? Wishful thinking

[Dark Faze]

It's not that I really think he's the problem, it's more like--we've seen what both those guys are about and what they can do. And the clock is ticking on achieving replacements for them. The question is--do you want to extend both in two years? If the answer is no, you need to look for replacements now. If the answer is yes, then aite.

Yeah, you make compelling points there. If there is a good opportunity, we should consider it.

I'm certain his long term plan was to let Ian take over and let Gortat walk or take a vet min, but with Ian looking trash tier, we're up **** creek.

Trading a pick for a rental was beyond awful in hindsight.

That's why getting young picks in here ASAP is extremely important. It's why I suggested taking on the Deng contract if it gives you picks. The team desperately needs young talent. Maybe the Lakers aren't the team to deal with, but there aren't many options out there for teams that are desperate enough to free up salary that they'd offer picks/young talent.

[Ruzious]

It's not that I really think he's the problem, it's more like--we've seen what both those guys are about and what they can do. And the clock is ticking on achieving replacements for them. The question is--do you want to extend both in two years? If the answer is no, you need to look for replacements now. If the answer is yes, then aite.

Yeah, you make compelling points there. If there is a good opportunity, we should consider it.

I'm certain his long term plan was to let Ian take over and let Gortat walk or take a vet min, but with Ian looking trash tier, we're up **** creek.

Trading a pick for a rental was beyond awful in hindsight.

That's why getting young picks in here ASAP is extremely important. It's why I suggested taking on the Deng contract if it gives you picks. The team desperately needs young talent. Maybe the Lakers aren't the team to deal with, but there aren't many options out there for teams that are desperate enough to free up salary that they'd offer picks/young talent.

Not much age difference between Ian and Gortat. I'm not sure there is a long-term plan.

[Dark Faze]

Not really age so much as kicking the can a year down the road. Ians contract is only a year longer yea, but that gives Ernie the wiggle room needed to find some other solution later

[gambitx777]

They are looking for an asset for oakafur. At this point if they would take a 2018 second and Aaron white and mahinmi for oakafur I'd jump on that! I'd give a protected 2019 but I'm not trading 2018 for anything at this point. I would also seriously consider making Brooklyn and offer of 2019 first for Booker and Zeller for mahinmi

[WallToWall]

Unfortunately, there isnt a GM who will make a lopsided trade (other than, as some would argue, ours).
We arent getting something for nothing in a trade. Expect to part with something of value in order to bring in a backup PG, and/or backup C, and/or backup PF. We will need to part with the likes of Oubre, Sato, Mahinmi, and draft picks. Parting with Oubre will hurt, as will high draft picks. But, we will need to do something like that to get something back that will help us now.

[payitforward]

Because our true window for contention is probably in around two or three years, when LeBron has truly declined, Iguodala's legs fall off, and Klay and Draymond are facing super maxes. At that point, at age 29/30/31 John will be playing at the height of his powers and then decline after. Going all in NOW, when there's almost nothing you can do to beat the Cavs with a healthy IT or this current Warriors team, is bad strategy. We traded a first to "increase our odds" last year, and maybe we would have lost in 6 to Boston instead of 7 with Bojan. Meanwhile, Jordan Bell is catching backboard lobs and looks like a young asset for the Warriors.

The calculus is this: No move we make gets us past the ECF (barring an injury in Cleveland). Likewise, nobody we get rid of within reason makes us bad enough to lose in the first round. So basically, why wouldn't you guarantee you keep your pick and then add young talent for Kieff/Gortat under that scenario? You lose a round earlier at worst with trading for young talent. At best with a win now move, you sacrifice future talent, make it to the ECF, but end up being stuck with trying to get something of value for Gortat in Kieff as expirings, which are harder to get value out of unless you're taking back a bad contract.

OMG!! You think Iguodala's legs are going to fall off?? Does he have some medical condition I don't know about?

We won't have a window for contention in 2-3 years, sorry. Or at least it is extremely unlikely. You are forgetting about Boston & Philly, both of whom are likely to be better than us in those same 2-3 years. & that's just the EC. & you're also forgetting that our salary structure 2 years from now is a nightmare. We have no way to improve.

All the same, you are right it's young talent we need. I wish I saw a way to get that for Kieff or Gortat, but I don't. Ask yourself whether anyone would give us a R1 lottery pick for Markieff Morris (i.e. what we paid for him). I can't see it, can you?

Embiid might not even be in the league two years from now lol. Chances are more likely he misses extensive time rather than him all of a sudden, for the first time in his entire basketball career, being a stalwart of health capable of the rigors of a playoff series, and Fultz is just weird in general right now. Hope he improves after that injury or w/e, but yea. That team has a ways to go despite their bright future. Boston? That team is at best just a different version of what they were last year. I don't think Brown is an all-star caliber player. I do think Tatum has a good chance of making it. But the new look Celtics will be about as difficult to take out as the Isaiah 52 points against us in a playoff game celtics.

And if you think Iguodala will be the same defender at age 35 after two additional long and probable championship runs, well ok

Sheesh, faze -- I was making a joke about the way you put it: that Iggy's legs were going to "fall off."

As for the rest, by the time it's obvious that you're wrong you won't remember what you claimed was going to happen -- aren't you the one who was telling me a couple of years ago all about how "NBA ready" Rakeem Christmas was?