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2018 -- NBA Games Thread

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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#81 » by MaceCase » Wed Nov 8, 2017 7:40 pm

ATL Boy wrote:
MaceCase wrote:I'd have that same concern if he was 23 or 25 when his contract expired instead of 29 because most players close to hitting their 30s are looking for winning situations rather than to feed their ego.

Klay is on record responding "because I like winning" for why he didn't go elsewhere already and he also responded "I aint sacrificing ****" in response to taking a backseat to Durant. The Warriors won another ring and his counting stats remained virtually the same.

If he leaves it's predominantly because the dynasty crashed and he's looking for the next ready made contender because I sincerely doubt he wants his career winding down with him resembling Kevin Martin in Sacramento in more ways than one just to prove that he could be the man.

Most players who expire at 29 also don't have at least 2 (and probably 3-4) rings already won. Klay's also smart enough to see that while his stats remained in tact he was obviously playing third fiddle to Curry and Durant.

There's obviously no way to know exactly what he's thinking but knowing how competitive these athletes are I'd venture to guess that he wants to prove himself worthy of carrying a team by himself.

I also agree that he wouldn't want a Kevin Martin situation but I don't think the Hawks two seasons from now will be as driven in the ground as the Kings (who are the worst run organization in the NBA). We already have a nice young nucleus that will be added to in the form of two high lotto picks and whatever Free Agents we bring in with the use of our cap space.


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I think we have a pretty good insight into his thinking given his actions and words added to little precedent of players almost in their 30s deciding that that's the time for them to prove that they can be the man for the first time. You're talking about him being smart enough well...doesn't that also apply to him being realistic and intelligent enough to recognize his own ability and limitations? He's not addled with the invincibility of youth and I doubt his ego was ever at the point where he could see a player as great as Kevin Durant make sacrifices not once but twice and think he could do just as well by doing the opposite.

That and thinking the Hawks will be straddling the contender stratosphere after only two seasons into a rebuild is a tad optimistic. Going out and trying to acquire a 29 year old Klay would be just as impatient as when BK tried to jumpstart the franchise with Joe but even he was just 24, an age perfectly inline with all the youth that surrounded him but time will tell.
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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#82 » by ATL Boy » Wed Nov 8, 2017 7:52 pm

MaceCase wrote:
ATL Boy wrote:
MaceCase wrote:I'd have that same concern if he was 23 or 25 when his contract expired instead of 29 because most players close to hitting their 30s are looking for winning situations rather than to feed their ego.

Klay is on record responding "because I like winning" for why he didn't go elsewhere already and he also responded "I aint sacrificing ****" in response to taking a backseat to Durant. The Warriors won another ring and his counting stats remained virtually the same.

If he leaves it's predominantly because the dynasty crashed and he's looking for the next ready made contender because I sincerely doubt he wants his career winding down with him resembling Kevin Martin in Sacramento in more ways than one just to prove that he could be the man.

Most players who expire at 29 also don't have at least 2 (and probably 3-4) rings already won. Klay's also smart enough to see that while his stats remained in tact he was obviously playing third fiddle to Curry and Durant.

There's obviously no way to know exactly what he's thinking but knowing how competitive these athletes are I'd venture to guess that he wants to prove himself worthy of carrying a team by himself.

I also agree that he wouldn't want a Kevin Martin situation but I don't think the Hawks two seasons from now will be as driven in the ground as the Kings (who are the worst run organization in the NBA). We already have a nice young nucleus that will be added to in the form of two high lotto picks and whatever Free Agents we bring in with the use of our cap space.


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I think we have a pretty good insight into his thinking given his actions and words added to little precedent of players almost in their 30s deciding that that's the time for them to prove that they can be the man for the first time. You're talking about him being smart enough well...doesn't that also apply to him being realistic and intelligent enough to recognize his own ability and limitations? He's not addled with the invincibility of youth and I doubt his ego was ever at the point where he could see a player as great as Kevin Durant make sacrifices not once but twice and think he could do just as well by doing the opposite.

That and thinking the Hawks will be straddling the contender stratosphere after only two seasons into a rebuild is a tad optimistic. Going out and trying to acquire a 29 year old Klay would be just as impatient as when BK tried to jumpstart the franchise with Joe but even he was just 24, an age perfectly inline with all the youth that surrounded him but time will tell.

You're right, it is optimistic. For better or for worse my optimism gets the best of me with these sports teams (most of the time it's for worse though). I don't think we'll be in a Sixers type cycle of being terrible for 5-6 years.

Although that clearly depends on the depends on how well Collins, Prince, and Bembry develop (I trust Coach Bud in this aspect... if we can retain him long term) and how well we hit on our draft picks the next two years. It's all about the draft.


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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#83 » by MaceCase » Wed Nov 8, 2017 8:28 pm

ATL Boy wrote:
MaceCase wrote:
ATL Boy wrote:Most players who expire at 29 also don't have at least 2 (and probably 3-4) rings already won. Klay's also smart enough to see that while his stats remained in tact he was obviously playing third fiddle to Curry and Durant.

There's obviously no way to know exactly what he's thinking but knowing how competitive these athletes are I'd venture to guess that he wants to prove himself worthy of carrying a team by himself.

I also agree that he wouldn't want a Kevin Martin situation but I don't think the Hawks two seasons from now will be as driven in the ground as the Kings (who are the worst run organization in the NBA). We already have a nice young nucleus that will be added to in the form of two high lotto picks and whatever Free Agents we bring in with the use of our cap space.


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I think we have a pretty good insight into his thinking given his actions and words added to little precedent of players almost in their 30s deciding that that's the time for them to prove that they can be the man for the first time. You're talking about him being smart enough well...doesn't that also apply to him being realistic and intelligent enough to recognize his own ability and limitations? He's not addled with the invincibility of youth and I doubt his ego was ever at the point where he could see a player as great as Kevin Durant make sacrifices not once but twice and think he could do just as well by doing the opposite.

That and thinking the Hawks will be straddling the contender stratosphere after only two seasons into a rebuild is a tad optimistic. Going out and trying to acquire a 29 year old Klay would be just as impatient as when BK tried to jumpstart the franchise with Joe but even he was just 24, an age perfectly inline with all the youth that surrounded him but time will tell.

You're right, it is optimistic. For better or for worse my optimism gets the best of me with these sports teams (most of the time it's for worse though). I don't think we'll be in a Sixers type cycle of being terrible for 5-6 years.

Although that clearly depends on the depends on how well Collins, Prince, and Bembry develop (I trust Coach Bud in this aspect... if we can retain him long term) and how well we hit on our draft picks the next two years. It's all about the draft.


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It's not so much as being in a cycle of being terrible for X amount of years, it's about having a roster that fits a congruent timeline. Even from the most optimistic team standpoint you don't want to invest a max in a guy that will be a declining 32/33 year old before the rest of the roster has even hit their prime. Adding to that players in the midst of their prime avoid young teams: LeBron didn't rejoin Cleveland for its youth, he rejoined because they could transform those picks into players in their prime that could win now. They immediately got a 26 year old Love and filled out the rest of the roster with older players. Even Al didn't join Boston to play with a bunch of 19 year olds, he joined with a 27 year old Thomas while they were pursuing a 28 year old Durant and then 27 year old Hayward joined to play with 28 year old Thomas and 31 year old Horford.

Moving past whether or not Klay would leave Golden State, the Hawks shouldn't be targeting the stars of yesteryear nor should they expect to receive interest from them. The Hawks should be identifying the next generation of guys on the cusp or just starting to solidify their stardom instead.
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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#84 » by Spud2nique » Wed Nov 8, 2017 9:32 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:^Does Klay Thompson want to go down in history as James Worthy? The third best player on a great team?


Is it a guarantee he leaves GS...no. But he likely will at least be open to the idea if the right situation is available.


More like a Byron Scott with defense to me...he's got a couple inches on Scott but same role for the warriors minus the defense as Scott had for the Lakers...I dislike his punchface very much and the fact that he is really smug, a crybaby (after game 5 okc 2 years ago he seemed like a flustered 5 year old when things weren't going right)...But I can overlook that for his solid D and damn near perfect jumpshot form..


Why not! Bring him in...at this point I don't care if it's Bird, Ainge, or Bill Laimbeer..I just want a ring.
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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#85 » by ATL Boy » Thu Nov 9, 2017 12:09 am

MaceCase wrote:
ATL Boy wrote:
MaceCase wrote:I think we have a pretty good insight into his thinking given his actions and words added to little precedent of players almost in their 30s deciding that that's the time for them to prove that they can be the man for the first time. You're talking about him being smart enough well...doesn't that also apply to him being realistic and intelligent enough to recognize his own ability and limitations? He's not addled with the invincibility of youth and I doubt his ego was ever at the point where he could see a player as great as Kevin Durant make sacrifices not once but twice and think he could do just as well by doing the opposite.

That and thinking the Hawks will be straddling the contender stratosphere after only two seasons into a rebuild is a tad optimistic. Going out and trying to acquire a 29 year old Klay would be just as impatient as when BK tried to jumpstart the franchise with Joe but even he was just 24, an age perfectly inline with all the youth that surrounded him but time will tell.

You're right, it is optimistic. For better or for worse my optimism gets the best of me with these sports teams (most of the time it's for worse though). I don't think we'll be in a Sixers type cycle of being terrible for 5-6 years.

Although that clearly depends on the depends on how well Collins, Prince, and Bembry develop (I trust Coach Bud in this aspect... if we can retain him long term) and how well we hit on our draft picks the next two years. It's all about the draft.


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It's not so much as being in a cycle of being terrible for X amount of years, it's about having a roster that fits a congruent timeline. Even from the most optimistic team standpoint you don't want to invest a max in a guy that will be a declining 32/33 year old before the rest of the roster has even hit their prime. Adding to that players in the midst of their prime avoid young teams: LeBron didn't rejoin Cleveland for its youth, he rejoined because they could transform those picks into players in their prime that could win now. They immediately got a 26 year old Love and filled out the rest of the roster with older players. Even Al didn't join Boston to play with a bunch of 19 year olds, he joined with a 27 year old Thomas while they were pursuing a 28 year old Durant and then 27 year old Hayward joined to play with 28 year old Thomas and 31 year old Horford.

Moving past whether or not Klay would leave Golden State, the Hawks shouldn't be targeting the stars of yesteryear nor should they expect to receive interest from them. The Hawks should be identifying the next generation of guys on the cusp or just starting to solidify their stardom instead.

I actually think we'd be a pretty attractive spot for Thompson if he were to leave Golden State (which I still think is a very high possibility). The fact that we'd be in a pretty wide open Eastern Conference by that time (with Lebron aging/possibly leaving the Cavs, and of course depending on how Boston develops and other FA moves) and that we'd have a collection of talented players already on the roster (Prince, Bembry and Schroder will be entering their prime, Collins will have had a few years experience in the NBA, and we'll have a possible top 5 pick from this upcoming NBA draft going into his second year). That's not even mentioning the fact that we'll (hopefully) have an established and recognizable Coach leading the team in Mike Budenholzer.

As for whether or not we'd want to bring in Klay, I'm sure Schlenk would welcome him win open arms. You don't just reject bringing in talent like that in free agency. His contract would last until he's 33 but you're talking about a player whose game is not predicated on athleticism but rather shooting and defense, two traits that carry over past a player's prime.


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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#86 » by MaceCase » Thu Nov 9, 2017 1:45 am

ATL Boy wrote:
MaceCase wrote:
ATL Boy wrote:You're right, it is optimistic. For better or for worse my optimism gets the best of me with these sports teams (most of the time it's for worse though). I don't think we'll be in a Sixers type cycle of being terrible for 5-6 years.

Although that clearly depends on the depends on how well Collins, Prince, and Bembry develop (I trust Coach Bud in this aspect... if we can retain him long term) and how well we hit on our draft picks the next two years. It's all about the draft.


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It's not so much as being in a cycle of being terrible for X amount of years, it's about having a roster that fits a congruent timeline. Even from the most optimistic team standpoint you don't want to invest a max in a guy that will be a declining 32/33 year old before the rest of the roster has even hit their prime. Adding to that players in the midst of their prime avoid young teams: LeBron didn't rejoin Cleveland for its youth, he rejoined because they could transform those picks into players in their prime that could win now. They immediately got a 26 year old Love and filled out the rest of the roster with older players. Even Al didn't join Boston to play with a bunch of 19 year olds, he joined with a 27 year old Thomas while they were pursuing a 28 year old Durant and then 27 year old Hayward joined to play with 28 year old Thomas and 31 year old Horford.

Moving past whether or not Klay would leave Golden State, the Hawks shouldn't be targeting the stars of yesteryear nor should they expect to receive interest from them. The Hawks should be identifying the next generation of guys on the cusp or just starting to solidify their stardom instead.

I actually think we'd be a pretty attractive spot for Thompson if he were to leave Golden State (which I still think is a very high possibility). The fact that we'd be in a pretty wide open Eastern Conference by that time (with Lebron aging/possibly leaving the Cavs, and of course depending on how Boston develops and other FA moves) and that we'd have a collection of talented players already on the roster (Prince, Bembry and Schroder will be entering their prime, Collins will have had a few years experience in the NBA, and we'll have a possible top 5 pick from this upcoming NBA draft going into his second year). That's not even mentioning the fact that we'll (hopefully) have an established and recognizable Coach leading the team in Mike Budenholzer.

As for whether or not we'd want to bring in Klay, I'm sure Schlenk would welcome him win open arms. You don't just reject bringing in talent like that in free agency. His contract would last until he's 33 but you're talking about a player whose game is not predicated on athleticism but rather shooting and defense, two traits that carry over past a player's prime.


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I get that but I can certainly see a team reject talent if they're paying a premium for a 29 year old player expecting them to perform a role that they haven't once in 8 seasons to join a team having just completed only its 2nd year of netting assets from its rebuild. If that's the case then a player like LeBron should be the top priority in the offseason.

Even with Millsap the Hawks paid a pittance to acquire him initially yet he'd already spent 3 seasons as at worst the Jazz's second dog not the 3rd or 4th and he joined a team where the youngest of the top 6 players, Teague, was already 25. This is a plan to essentially turn Klay into what Al Horford is for the current Celtics except it's a lot harder to have the kind of defensive and offensive impact a C has from the wing position. That and I don't know whom from either Dennis, Bembry, Prince, Collins, a rookie pick, and sophomore pick is going to emerge as having the impact of a Thomas/Irving putting Klay in the more comfortable role of being a secondary player. I'd rather pursue the Bookers, Porzingis, and Russel's, guys that would grow with the core, than try to pigeonhole a contender together. You're young, have patience.
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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#87 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Nov 9, 2017 12:31 pm

The Celtics are on a roll right now. And in surprising fashion. Their offense is clunky, their defense is elite and they are winning without Hayward -- and last night without Horford.

Kudos to Brad Stevens. Their team will likely only get better as the season progresses, their rookies get more acclimated and their starters become more accustomed to each other.

One thing to keep an eyeon: the rookie wall. Any team so dependent on young players will be extra vulnerable to the rigors of the NBA schedule wearing down the newbies.




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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#88 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Nov 9, 2017 1:41 pm

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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#89 » by Spud2nique » Thu Nov 9, 2017 3:10 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:The Celtics are on a roll right now. And in surprising fashion. Their offense is clunky, their defense is elite and they are winning without Hayward -- and last night without Horford.

Kudos to Brad Stevens. Their team will likely only get better as the season progresses, their rookies get more acclimated and their starters become more accustomed to each other.

One thing to keep an eyeon: the rookie wall. Any team so dependent on young players will be extra vulnerable to the rigors of the NBA schedule wearing down the newbies.




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Dang it...whyyyyy the Celts!!!!! Semi is gonna be good.
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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#90 » by HMFFL » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:16 am

Watching Millsap and his Nuggets right now vs OKC.
OKC needs to get things together and Westbrook basically needs to be the number one priority.
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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#91 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:05 pm

Sac-town looks like they might have a young stud at PG now:

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And Ben Simmons looks like the real heir apparent to Magic:

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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#92 » by ATL Boy » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:39 pm

Glad the Kings got the win. I'm pulling hard for the Kings, Bulls, Nets and Mavs to get as many victories as possible this year.
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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#93 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:21 pm

AL Horford further cementing himself as the best 2nd tier, complementary star in the league:

Zach Lowe wrote:The Kyrie-Horford mind-meld, and the rip-roaring Celtics

In two months, Horford and Irving have established a level of wink-wink mind-meld other tandems can't approach after five years together. Their give-and-go game is already one of the prettiest in the league. Forty of Irving's 100 baskets have come via assists this season; Horford has supplied the dime on 17 of them, more than double any other teammate.

Irving has been the passer on 25 of Horford's 44 assisted buckets.

When Horford feels his defender itching to trap Irving, he'll fake the handoff and bolt to the rim -- the NBA's version of a play-action scramble.

I'm not sure Horford has played with this kind of constant aggression in his career. It's as if Irving has injected him with some swagger. Horford is driving full-speed when defenders rush to close out on his jumper, dunking on people, and zipping touch passes the moment the ball hits his fingertips. Is Al Horford -- placid, unselfish Al Horford -- showing off just a little?

Defensively, Boston leads the league in points allowed per possession, and they are fourth in defensive rebounding.
ESPN


Horford is indeed better as a 2nd guy rather than the main option. He just needed a better caliber of star beside him than he got in ATL (Iso-Joe, J-Smoove, Millsap).
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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#94 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:23 pm

A curious stat:

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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#95 » by macd-gm » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:50 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:A curious stat:

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Kent's been playing a lot better lately. Still is trying to do too much when the games on the line but looks like the staff is getting through to him about focusing on what he does well. And keeping his cool is a big part of that.
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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#96 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:55 pm

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Boston with another impressive showing piecing together a mismatch starting lineup without Kyrie (and Hayward).

Horford stepped up with a big game against a division rival and the Celtics stretch their win streak to 12 wins in a row.



NOTE: Hawks are currently on pace to end up with 12 wins for the season. :(


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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#97 » by kg01 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:56 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:A curious stat:

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Exhibit 432389.5a of a role guy trying to play the part of a star. #Miscast
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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#98 » by Spud2nique » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:44 pm

Ya...mac'd..I told kg that Baze was growing on me...he is just a lot more patient now...not normal patient but Baze patient..lol...he's ours and we gotta love him ...for now..
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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#99 » by Spud2nique » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:47 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Read on Twitter

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Read on Twitter




Boston with another impressive showing piecing together a mismatch starting lineup without Kyrie (and Hayward).

Horford stepped up with a big game against a division rival and the Celtics stretch their win streak to 12 wins in a row.



NOTE: Hawks are currently on pace to end up with 12 wins for the season. :(


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Can ever Celtic get knocked the F out please...Horford..Kyrie...you want it I deliver ..

Or as Oprah would say..YOU GET A CONCUSSION YOU GET A CONCUSSION YOU GET A CONCUSSION...EVERYBODY..(not taking concussions lightly just a joke calm down).
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Re: 2018 -- NBA Games Thread 

Post#100 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:36 pm

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^Impressive. Us in 5 years?

#HalftimeAdjustments

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