2018 NBA Draft Talk

[JGOJustin]

Clips not going to actively try to tank, not after they inked Blake to that deal this past summer and regardless of the coach, if BG is playing 70+ games this season and we still end up you know, "bad" then that's more of a reflection on him than anything. I've been on record and will continue to say that he just isn't a #1.

But I'm not totally against the Tank. At the end of the day, if your goal is to win a chip and be a perennial contender, then the #1 way to do that is through the draft. I'd welcome it. A season of tanking, a new coach (I have no doubt doc won't make it through the year) and you potentially have a Donic, Porter, or Bagley to pair with Blake and suddenly your FA pitch to guys becomes a bit more appealing.

[esqtvd]

I trust West to find the right player for us in the draft. If you can't trust arguably the greatest executive in basketball history, I don't know what to tell you.

That's sweet and I don't disagree, but there might not be a game-changer in the draft, or he might be gone. And you ruined an entire year for a so-so player.

And even if you get a Devin Booker, well, the Suns still suck.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2612041-re-drafting-the-1st-round-of-the-2015-nba-draft-midseason-edition

[wco81]

Maybe the way to go would be to look for a playmaker who'd create easy shots for Blake and others.

You know, someone like Chris Paul?

If any of the Clippers players were responsible in alienating CP3 and pushing him out the door, do they have regrets now with the way they're struggling, especially on offense?

[Clemenza]

Maybe the way to go would be to look for a playmaker who'd create easy shots for Blake and others.

You know, someone like Chris Paul?

If any of the Clippers players were responsible in alienating CP3 and pushing him out the door, do they have regrets now with the way they're struggling, especially on offense?

We're missing 3 starters that are out with injury not Chris Paul. And he alienated himself not the other way around.

[Quake Griffin]

Best player available


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[MartinToVaught]

Maybe the way to go would be to look for a playmaker who'd create easy shots for Blake and others.

You know, someone like Chris Paul?

If any of the Clippers players were responsible in alienating CP3 and pushing him out the door, do they have regrets now with the way they're struggling, especially on offense?

By all accounts, CP3 treated his teammates like crap, not the other way around.

[JGOJustin]

Maybe the way to go would be to look for a playmaker who'd create easy shots for Blake and others.

You know, someone like Chris Paul?

If any of the Clippers players were responsible in alienating CP3 and pushing him out the door, do they have regrets now with the way they're struggling, especially on offense?

The Clips didn't push CP out the door, total opposite. The entire franchise bent over backwards to accommodate and submit to him.

[wco81]

If they refused to trade him, Houston would have had to scramble to get rid of those players to make room for CP3.

And CP3 wouldn't be eligible to sign a max deal with them next year I think?

They certainly facilitated.

I thought there were also reports that they were balking at giving super maxes to both CP3 and BG too.

[MartinToVaught]

If they refused to trade him, Houston would have had to scramble to get rid of those players to make room for CP3.

And CP3 wouldn't be eligible to sign a max deal with them next year I think?

They certainly facilitated.

We "facilitated" only after it became clear that CP3 was not staying and we had an opportunity to get something in return for him.

I thought there were also reports that they were balking at giving super maxes to both CP3 and BG too.

Nope. The exact opposite was true.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2694152-chris-paul-reportedly-verbally-agreed-to-sign-new-contract-with-clippers

[esqtvd]

Maybe the way to go would be to look for a playmaker who'd create easy shots for Blake and others.

You know, someone like Chris Paul?

If any of the Clippers players were responsible in alienating CP3 and pushing him out the door, do they have regrets now with the way they're struggling, especially on offense?

The Clips didn't push CP out the door, total opposite. The entire franchise bent over backwards to accommodate and submit to him.

I'd say it is a fact that Chris had no friends on the team and that's a big reason he left. He's an intense pr*ck like Kobe, kind of a straight arrow unlike party boyz Blake & DJ, and his "culture"--like kids in the locker room--wasn't theirs. I bet there are no kids in the locker room anymore.

Since he had no followers, CP's really not a leader either, and I think that's why he settled on being The Beard's #2. No more worrying about what to do about the last shot. I love the guy, but he's not Kobe, who could win a championship even with an inferior cast [and who also hated his guts].

[esqtvd]

Nope. The exact opposite was true.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2694152-chris-paul-reportedly-verbally-agreed-to-sign-new-contract-with-clippers

The lone source is Steve Kyler of Basketball Insiders, not a first-tier proven insider like Woj or Woike or even Ramona. Not buying. There's a ton of evidence to the contrary from Doc and Chris himself that he was not going to make up his mind until the season was over. Had Blake not been injured [AGAIN!] and we'd have made a deep playoff run, it would have been worth considering giving it one more try.

[TucsonClip]

Agree to disagree on everything. And, as I said at the time, Jeff Green is terrible. Still is, always was.

RE: Fultz... His shoulder was apparently not right in SL either. Did you watch him at Washington? He looks nothing like that for a reason.

No, but if success in college automatically translated to the NBA, there would be no such thing as busts. And as I said, I'm talking court presence. I could tell Simmons couldn't shoot but he was still awesome. Fultz seemed OK but unless he turns into a Steph Curry sharpshooter, he doesn't seem to have any particular area of his game that jumps out at you. [Obviously Danny Ainge agreed.]

That wasn't my point. Point being he's hurt, has been, and it's greatly imacting(ed) his play as a professional so far. Which is why I think it's silly for you to be this critical of him, having never actually seen him play.

[esqtvd]

Agree to disagree on everything. And, as I said at the time, Jeff Green is terrible. Still is, always was.

RE: Fultz... His shoulder was apparently not right in SL either. Did you watch him at Washington? He looks nothing like that for a reason.

No, but if success in college automatically translated to the NBA, there would be no such thing as busts. And as I said, I'm talking court presence. I could tell Simmons couldn't shoot but he was still awesome. Fultz seemed OK but unless he turns into a Steph Curry sharpshooter, he doesn't seem to have any particular area of his game that jumps out at you. [Obviously Danny Ainge agreed.]

That wasn't my point. Point being he's hurt, has been, and it's greatly imacting(ed) his play as a professional so far. Which is why I think it's silly for you to be this critical of him, having never actually seen him play.

Well I was willing to ignore the shooting in retrospect and looked at his court presence. Ben Simmons can't shoot either but the gulf is huge. Fultz is supposed to be a point guard, right? A "lead guard." A "lead guard" needs court presence. Fultz's team won 9 games, right? It would be impossible for a Russell Westbrook or a Chris Paul team to be that bad.

Neither am I critical of Fultz as much as predicting he'll be put in the lower tier of #1 overall picks--an opinion the Celtics apparently shared. The point was not to diss Fultz but to point out you can ruin an entire year by tanking and end up with a nice, but not championship-level, player. I say screw that. If you want, substitute the 2015 draft. I'm talking about the Clippers here--Fultz is an illustration, not an argument.


[Actually, I like Fultz's shot much better than say, De'Aaron Fox's. Both worked out for the Sixers and I saw some video. Since the Sixers are my hometown team, I'd prefer to be pleasantly surprised by Fultz. And BTW, I had the same shoulder problem this year--a little twinge 6 months ago when I'd shoot turned into a screeching pain that would wake me up at night. It was an inflammation in there somewhere, and a month of cortisone, rest and ice later, I'm OK. I ignore Fultz's injury as well.]

[TucsonClip]

Sure, and Ben Simmons doesn't have the scoring potential Fultz does. Just completely different players, and they actually compliment each other very well.

Also, the amount of wins in college argument is about as lame as they come. I suppose Ben Simmons is a fluke right now, because his LSU team sucked. Also keep in mind Washington lost Dejounte Murray and Marquese Chriss to the draft. As a result that Washington roster was depleted, not that I thought Romar would have gotten much out of all three of them anyway.

Anyway, agree to disagree again.

[esqtvd]

Sure, and Ben Simmons doesn't have the scoring potential Fultz does. Just completely different players, and they actually compliment each other very well.

Also, the amount of wins in college argument is about as lame as they come. I suppose Ben Simmons is a fluke right now, because his LSU team sucked. Also keep in mind Washington lost Dejounte Murray and Marquese Chriss to the draft. As a result that Washington roster was depleted, not that I thought Romar would have gotten much out of all three of them anyway.

Anyway, agree to disagree again.

I don't know what "agree to disagree" means here, because I was talking about tanking to get a top pick. I wasn't really talking about Fultz in particular.

If you want to stick with Fultz, it's a quibble around the edges about how great- or less-than-great Markelle Fultz will turn out to be. The easy test is whether tanking to get the #1 pick in the draft results in a guy who's a perennial All-Star.


Forget the championships [the only real reason to tank]. Being a perennial All-Star should be the bare minimum for the #1 overall pick if you're gonna tank for him. You gotta own that much.

Fultz? Floor's yours. Tell us why tanking and ruining an entire season for the fans just to get Markelle Fultz was worth it.

[og15]

Maybe the way to go would be to look for a playmaker who'd create easy shots for Blake and others.

You know, someone like Chris Paul?

If any of the Clippers players were responsible in alienating CP3 and pushing him out the door, do they have regrets now with the way they're struggling, especially on offense?

The Clips didn't push CP out the door, total opposite. The entire franchise bent over backwards to accommodate and submit to him.

I'd say it is a fact that Chris had no friends on the team and that's a big reason he left. He's an intense pr*ck like Kobe, kind of a straight arrow unlike party boyz Blake & DJ, and his "culture"--like kids in the locker room--wasn't theirs. I bet there are no kids in the locker room anymore.

Since he had no followers, CP's really not a leader either, and I think that's why he settled on being The Beard's #2. No more worrying about what to do about the last shot. I love the guy, but he's not Kobe, who could win a championship even with an inferior cast [and who also hated his guts].

I don't think this was the case, him and Jamal seemed to be friends, and Luc followed him to Houston, and Redick also almost did. Paul called Redick right after he was traded there, and if not for the Rockets having Eric Gordon and Redick being scared that he wouldn't have security on that roster, he might be on that team too, that would be three Clippers starters from last season very odd, but the Philly offer was also hard to resist. These were Redick's words:

Says Redick: "Is Chris tough to play with? Yes, in the sense that there's an edge to the way he plays, and if you have a different personality, it can grind at you a little bit. I always liked it."

Redick though is cut from a different cloth from guys like DJ and Blake, so it's very easy to see how he would view it differently, and similarly, Luc who just seems very composed and chill either way.

The Houston experiment will be interesting. Harden will be the best player he's ever played with. There was a time I would have, and did argue that Harden is not better than Blake, it's somewhere in the depths of the general board, but yea, that's just not a good argument anymore. Still, Harden is not a leader himself, which is also part of why he wanted Paul along with the other reasons, and Paul will need to be the "leader" on that team, so that's going to be an interesting one to watch. I suppose the different part there is that he's much better friends with the guys on that team, so that tends to help a lot, but if he himself hasn't learned that he needs to be malleable in how he interacts with people and what works with Redick, Luc, Crawford, etc might not work with Blake, DJ, etc, well then, unless those guys are mainly amenable to his way, then he might have some issues there too if the winning doesn't come...and GS is there, so good luck. Winning though tends to be a good pacifier for a lot of things.

If they refused to trade him, Houston would have had to scramble to get rid of those players to make room for CP3.

And CP3 wouldn't be eligible to sign a max deal with them next year I think?

They certainly facilitated.

I thought there were also reports that they were balking at giving super maxes to both CP3 and BG too.

No, this was just made up, people just needed things to talk about during the summer, but they were definitely offering it, Ballmer already made that clear on multiple occasions.

Also to your earlier posts, most of the signs point to Paul leaving having a lot to do with Doc and how he had run the front office and his belief/lack thereof in Doc in that role being able to make the right decisions (possibly relating to Austin and other players he likes) to build a contender. Whether you think it is fair or not, that's kind of the recurring theme we are seeing.

[JGOJustin]

Nope. The exact opposite was true.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2694152-chris-paul-reportedly-verbally-agreed-to-sign-new-contract-with-clippers

The lone source is Steve Kyler of Basketball Insiders, not a first-tier proven insider like Woj or Woike or even Ramona. Not buying. There's a ton of evidence to the contrary from Doc and Chris himself that he was not going to make up his mind until the season was over. Had Blake not been injured [AGAIN!] and we'd have made a deep playoff run, it would have been worth considering giving it one more try.

Obviously the outcome of the season was going to help or hurt his decision, but it was a poorly hidden secret that Chris was coming back to LAC. Literally win or lose chris was supposed to come back. But, a 7 game first round exit, with Blake getting hurt again, along with the Hou opportunity arising, changed the course. But he wasn't supposed to leave.

[JGOJustin]

Maybe the way to go would be to look for a playmaker who'd create easy shots for Blake and others.

You know, someone like Chris Paul?

If any of the Clippers players were responsible in alienating CP3 and pushing him out the door, do they have regrets now with the way they're struggling, especially on offense?

The Clips didn't push CP out the door, total opposite. The entire franchise bent over backwards to accommodate and submit to him.

I'd say it is a fact that Chris had no friends on the team and that's a big reason he left. He's an intense pr*ck like Kobe, kind of a straight arrow unlike party boyz Blake & DJ, and his "culture"--like kids in the locker room--wasn't theirs. I bet there are no kids in the locker room anymore.

Since he had no followers, CP's really not a leader either, and I think that's why he settled on being The Beard's #2. No more worrying about what to do about the last shot. I love the guy, but he's not Kobe, who could win a championship even with an inferior cast [and who also hated his guts].

With confidence I can say that CP's attitude is very intense, very professional. In any area of the clips organization, you could tell how much more serious CP was than say, blake or DJ.

But he wasn't a prick though. At least from what I gathered. Him and Blake were fine, they just weren't homeboys. Him and DJ by the end of his time in LA became highkey close. Very healthy respect between those two. Him and Bubs (JJ) fostered a "lifelong" friendship and were frigging double dating at NoBu. Him and Jamal were very close. These dudes cried together man. At the end of the day he wasn't the most fun to play with, but they were teammates and it wasn't close to like, Kobe & Dwight or like Kobe & Shaq or some ****.

[Akklaim1]

All this we-are-better-without-CP3 BS has got to die. We were just one competent SF away from keeping up with the elites.

[TucsonClip]

I don't know what "agree to disagree" means here, because I was talking about tanking to get a top pick. I wasn't really talking about Fultz in particular.

If you want to stick with Fultz, it's a quibble around the edges about how great- or less-than-great Markelle Fultz will turn out to be. The easy test is whether tanking to get the #1 pick in the draft results in a guy who's a perennial All-Star.


Forget the championships [the only real reason to tank]. Being a perennial All-Star should be the bare minimum for the #1 overall pick if you're gonna tank for him. You gotta own that much.

Fultz? Floor's yours. Tell us why tanking and ruining an entire season for the fans just to get Markelle Fultz was worth it.

The agree to disagree applies to everything draft and Fultz related. I have nothing wrong with what Hinkie did, and I would support a team rebuilding by trying to get the highest pick possible, as long as it is within the rules. Issue is, you are going to have to deal with the fans and owner. If you are willing to handle that, go for it.

Jury is obviously still out on what Fultz turns into, but we are getting away from my initial comments in response to your observations into Fultz's game (cant shoot, handles arent elite like Ball - he can shoot, Ball does not have elite handles, and Fultz's handles are more than fine). Which, again, I think are a bit over the top based on multiplus reasons.

Lets move on.