NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4

[Kanyewest]

Considering that he almost chose Washington even though Washington waited until after Durant made his decision, anything could have swayed him. Certainly showing him more attention was the way to go, and EG failed to do so - by focusing all of his attention on Durant and making it obvious that Horford was just a fall-back option - apparently followed closely by... Ian Mahinmi. If you're a top-level guy, you expect more attention than EG showed. It wouldn't surprise me if EG said in negotiations - "Ok, Horford's agent, If we don't get you, we'll just sign Mahinmi in 2 minutes" - as if that represented bargaining power for EG.

Durant made his decision AFTER Horford, which was Durant's second choice after Golden State according to Woj. The Wizards barely had any focus on Durant, they didn't even have a meeting with him! I think it is silly to say that EG threatened Horford by saying that we would sign Ian instead. EG is not a great GM but you are giving him too much blame on this part. Now not signing some other good players on value deals like Dion Waiters, James Johnson, Seth Curry, and Dedmon could be something that you criticize EG for.

And probably the right play in retrospect would have been to sign Eric Gordon who made his decision to sign with the Rockets before Horford/Durant and the Rockets had about as many wins as the Wizards the previous season. Easier to say in retrospect given his injury history.

C'mon, those are facts, but they're irrelevant facts. Durant may not have chosen GS until after Horford signed, but Durant made it clear he wasn't considering the Wiz BEFORE the Wiz started going after Horford. The Wiz were still holding out hope - which was tiny at best - that they could get Durant - until he made it 100% clear that he wasn't coming here. If there was a 1% chance they could get Durant, the Wiz weren't going after Horford.

And it became 0% on the 1st night of free agency; as soon as Durant opted not to meet with the Wizards (and the Lakers). The Wizards rightly tried to sign Horford before Durant had committed. Now perhaps if the Wizards had signed a better coach than Scott Brooks maybe that would have moved the needle for Horford to come but frankly I don't think there was a coach as good as Brad Stevens on the market.

[FAH1223]

Marc Gasol upset with 4th quarter benching. What is Fizdale smoking?

[Ruzious]

Durant made his decision AFTER Horford, which was Durant's second choice after Golden State according to Woj. The Wizards barely had any focus on Durant, they didn't even have a meeting with him! I think it is silly to say that EG threatened Horford by saying that we would sign Ian instead. EG is not a great GM but you are giving him too much blame on this part. Now not signing some other good players on value deals like Dion Waiters, James Johnson, Seth Curry, and Dedmon could be something that you criticize EG for.

And probably the right play in retrospect would have been to sign Eric Gordon who made his decision to sign with the Rockets before Horford/Durant and the Rockets had about as many wins as the Wizards the previous season. Easier to say in retrospect given his injury history.

C'mon, those are facts, but they're irrelevant facts. Durant may not have chosen GS until after Horford signed, but Durant made it clear he wasn't considering the Wiz BEFORE the Wiz started going after Horford. The Wiz were still holding out hope - which was tiny at best - that they could get Durant - until he made it 100% clear that he wasn't coming here. If there was a 1% chance they could get Durant, the Wiz weren't going after Horford.

And it became 0% on the 1st night of free agency; as soon as Durant opted not to meet with the Wizards (and the Lakers). The Wizards rightly tried to sign Horford before Durant had committed. Now perhaps if the Wizards had signed a better coach than Scott Brooks maybe that would have moved the needle for Horford to come but frankly I don't think there was a coach as good as Brad Stevens on the market.

You just got through arguing the opposite - that "Durant made his decision AFTER Horford". Regardless, I think it was clear that the Wiz were holding onto the hope that they could have a shot at Durant before they went after Horford.

[Kanyewest]

C'mon, those are facts, but they're irrelevant facts. Durant may not have chosen GS until after Horford signed, but Durant made it clear he wasn't considering the Wiz BEFORE the Wiz started going after Horford. The Wiz were still holding out hope - which was tiny at best - that they could get Durant - until he made it 100% clear that he wasn't coming here. If there was a 1% chance they could get Durant, the Wiz weren't going after Horford.

And it became 0% on the 1st night of free agency; as soon as Durant opted not to meet with the Wizards (and the Lakers). The Wizards rightly tried to sign Horford before Durant had committed. Now perhaps if the Wizards had signed a better coach than Scott Brooks maybe that would have moved the needle for Horford to come but frankly I don't think there was a coach as good as Brad Stevens on the market.

You just got through arguing the opposite - that "Durant made his decision AFTER Horford". Regardless, I think it was clear that the Wiz were holding onto the hope that they could have a shot at Durant before they went after Horford.

No, I'm not arguing the opposite. I'm saying that as soon as free agency/moratorium ended, the Wizards could not have increased their chances to get Horford. There are plenty of moves EG could have done before that (summer of 2015, trade deadline, hiring a different head coach) but I think it is silly to think that the Wizards would have convinced Horford to sign with Washington after free agency had begun.

Yes, Durant made his decision after Horford to sign with the Warriors. The Celtics were 2nd in line to get Durant. But the Wizards were already eliminated from the discussion, hence why they immediately shifted their focus to sign Horford. The Celtics were trying to sign both Durant/Horford from the beginning of free agency.

Again, the Celtics had:
- A better head coach
- 48 win playoff team vs 42 win
- Multiple first round picks from the Nets
- Salary cap space to add another all star

[Ruzious]

And it became 0% on the 1st night of free agency; as soon as Durant opted not to meet with the Wizards (and the Lakers). The Wizards rightly tried to sign Horford before Durant had committed. Now perhaps if the Wizards had signed a better coach than Scott Brooks maybe that would have moved the needle for Horford to come but frankly I don't think there was a coach as good as Brad Stevens on the market.

You just got through arguing the opposite - that "Durant made his decision AFTER Horford". Regardless, I think it was clear that the Wiz were holding onto the hope that they could have a shot at Durant before they went after Horford.

No, I'm not arguing the opposite. I'm saying that as soon as free agency/moratorium ended, the Wizards could not have increased their chances to get Horford. There are plenty of moves EG could have done before that (summer of 2015, trade deadline, hiring a different head coach) but I think it is silly to think that the Wizards would have convinced Horford to sign with Washington after free agency had begun.

Yes, Durant made his decision after Horford to sign with the Warriors. The Celtics were 2nd in line to get Durant. But the Wizards were already eliminated from the discussion, hence why they immediately shifted their focus to sign Horford. The Celtics were trying to sign both Durant/Horford from the beginning of free agency.

Again, the Celtics had:
- A better head coach
- 48 win playoff team vs 42 win
- Multiple first round picks from the Nets
- Salary cap space to add another all star

I think we're back to where we started from. We're not going to agree on this.

[FAH1223]

Marc Gasol upset with 4th quarter benching. What is Fizdale smoking?

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Gasol and Fizdale weren't on good terms. Wow. But Memphis has bad management... almost as bad as Grunfeld!

[nate33]

Marc Gasol upset with 4th quarter benching. What is Fizdale smoking?

Spoiler:

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Gasol and Fizdale weren't on good terms. Wow. But Memphis has bad management... almost as bad as Grunfeld!

Wall, Gortat and Mahinmi for Conley and Gasol. Would you do it?

It makes us much better in the short term and it prevents the salary cap apocalypse when Wall's salary balloons. (Conley is paid $6M a year less than Wall's extension.) The downside is Conley is 4 years older than Wall, but his contract ends just as he projects to decline physically. Basically, we'd be really stacked through the 2019-2020 season, at which point everyone comes off the books except Beal and Porter.

I'd do it. It's a win-now gambit that doesn't really have much of a long term cost. I'm not convinced that Wall is better than Conley, and I'm very much convinced that Gasol is better than Gortat. I also have concerns that Wall's game won't age well.

[ClutchDJ]

Marc Gasol upset with 4th quarter benching. What is Fizdale smoking?

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

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Gasol and Fizdale weren't on good terms. Wow. But Memphis has bad management... almost as bad as Grunfeld!

Wall, Gortat and Mahinmi for Conley and Gasol. Would you do it?

It makes us much better in the short term and it prevents the salary cap apocalypse when Wall's salary balloons. (Conley is paid $6M a year less than Wall's extension.) The downside is Conley is 4 years older than Wall, but his contract ends just as he projects to decline physically. Basically, we'd be really stacked through the 2019-2020 season, at which point everyone comes off the books except Beal and Porter.

I'd do it. It's a win-now gambit that doesn't really have much of a long term cost. I'm not convinced that Wall is better than Conley, and I'm very much convinced that Gasol is better than Gortat. I also have concerns that Wall's game won't age well.

Are you serious?

I think Conley is closer to Jrue Holiday than he is to John.

[nate33]

Spoiler:

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Gasol and Fizdale weren't on good terms. Wow. But Memphis has bad management... almost as bad as Grunfeld!

Wall, Gortat and Mahinmi for Conley and Gasol. Would you do it?

It makes us much better in the short term and it prevents the salary cap apocalypse when Wall's salary balloons. (Conley is paid $6M a year less than Wall's extension.) The downside is Conley is 4 years older than Wall, but his contract ends just as he projects to decline physically. Basically, we'd be really stacked through the 2019-2020 season, at which point everyone comes off the books except Beal and Porter.

I'd do it. It's a win-now gambit that doesn't really have much of a long term cost. I'm not convinced that Wall is better than Conley, and I'm very much convinced that Gasol is better than Gortat. I also have concerns that Wall's game won't age well.

Are you serious?

I think Conley is closer to Jrue Holiday than he is to John.

Conley is one of the most underrated players in the game.

Wall has had exactly one season with a WS/48 over .134 (last season when he posted .149). Each of Conley's last 6 seasons had him posting a WS/48 over .141. Last season, Conley posted a WS/48 of .209 which crushes Wall's best. Conley has also beaten Wall in RPM in 3 of his last 4 seasons, including the last 2.

Also, the Grizzlies keep making the playoffs in the Western Conference with no talent and no shooting around Conley and Gasol.

Finally, I think Conley is a better fit here because he's content to take just 12-14 FGA's per game rather than Wall's 17-18.

I don't want to come across like I'm a Wall hater. Wall is really good. It's just that he's perceived as a top 15ish player in the league and I feel like he's more like top 30ish. I think Conley is a top 35 player.

[closg00]

Boston finally loses tonight to Detroit, Drummund & Harris had a monster games, Drummund punished them in the paint.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Gasol and Fizdale weren't on good terms. Wow. But Memphis has bad management... almost as bad as Grunfeld!

No, they have worse management than Grunfeld. Re-read those draft picks again. Oh, but free agency, you say.

Chandler Parsons $23,112,004 $24,107,258 $25,102,511

They've been relying on the greatness of Gasol and Conley for some time now, doing basically nothing in the process. Yeah, that's very Ernie-esque, but even Ernie got Oubre. Parsons has a worse contract than Mahinmi. My only real question is if they will relocate the team after protracted losing because they weren't drawing fans when they were making the 2nd round of the playoffs. Good thing the NBA moved teams out of Seattle and Vancouver to such brilliant markets as Memphis and OKC.

[FAH1223]

Lamarcus Aldridge has been pretty good this year. He's carrying the Spurs. 41 points tonight.

[queridiculo]

Wall, Gortat and Mahinmi for Conley and Gasol. Would you do it?

It makes us much better in the short term and it prevents the salary cap apocalypse when Wall's salary balloons. (Conley is paid $6M a year less than Wall's extension.) The downside is Conley is 4 years older than Wall, but his contract ends just as he projects to decline physically. Basically, we'd be really stacked through the 2019-2020 season, at which point everyone comes off the books except Beal and Porter.

I'd do it. It's a win-now gambit that doesn't really have much of a long term cost. I'm not convinced that Wall is better than Conley, and I'm very much convinced that Gasol is better than Gortat. I also have concerns that Wall's game won't age well.

Conley has missed over 50 games the past three seasons and by the time he's back this season he'll be at 16-20 games missed in 2017/18.

For an athlete that just turned 30 that injury history would probably be the only reason why I would turn down the deal.

[Kanyewest]

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[nate33]

I'm trying to figure out a way to acquire Noel as a reclamation project, but it just doesn't make sense. If we trade for him, we don't get his Bird Rights. The only way to retain him would be if he was willing to sign for MLE money or less, and if that was the case, we could just as easily sign him in the offseason without having to trade for him now.

[Kanyewest]

I'm trying to figure out a way to acquire Noel as a reclamation project, but it just doesn't make sense. If we trade for him, we don't get his Bird Rights. The only way to retain him would be if he was willing to sign for MLE money or less, and if that was the case, we could just as easily sign him in the offseason without having to trade for him now.

Yeah, it doesn't seem like it make sense to give up that much. The best I could come up with was Ian Mahinmi and Jason Smith for Wes Matthews and Nerlens Noel. Mahinmi was the backup center on that championship team for the Mavericks, although his deal is 1 year longer than Matthews contract, and the Mavs would probably prefer cap space.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6973630

[nate33]

I'm trying to figure out a way to acquire Noel as a reclamation project, but it just doesn't make sense. If we trade for him, we don't get his Bird Rights. The only way to retain him would be if he was willing to sign for MLE money or less, and if that was the case, we could just as easily sign him in the offseason without having to trade for him now.

Yeah, it doesn't seem like it make sense to give up that much. The best I could come up with was Ian Mahinmi and Jason Smith for Wes Matthews and Nerlens Noel. Mahinmi was the backup center on that championship team for the Mavericks, although his deal is 1 year longer than Matthews contract, and the Mavs would probably prefer cap space.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6973630

That would be an amazing trade for us because. We get a center prospect for the future and we unload Mahinmi's contract just in time to pay for Wall's extension. But, as you said, it doesn't really make much sense for Dallas.

[FAH1223]

40 year old game winner

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[Kanyewest]

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[TGW]

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Z-Bo just took Cousins' soul tonight...very amusing.