Post game: No Papa Johns

[CharlesOakley]

I don't care whether it results in a tank but we should not be playing vets. Call up Burke, get on the phone and find some trades for Lee and KOQ and let the kids roll.

[Greenie]

True or false? Our three best players have all missed time in the last 6 games.

All of a sudden, all players are created equal and losing KP, Kanter, and Timmy doesn't mean more than losing Baker and Noah.

And? Players miss games everyday.

That doesn’t mean we should be looking like pure garbage while giving up 38 point leads to teams. Especially if our so called culture has been changed. All year that’s what I’ve been hearing. When a culture changes it hits more than 2 or 3 players. It’s organizational.

facts
spurs rallied back from a 15 point deficit to OKC without aldridge/kawhi/gay... ain't no culture over here

We have a culture. It’s not the right one yet. But we have a culture. I’m still waiting for elite guards and have been waiting since...since(???).

Allan Houston?

[GONYK]

And? Players miss games everyday.

That doesn’t mean we should be looking like pure garbage while giving up 38 point leads to teams. Especially if our so called culture has been changed. All year that’s what I’ve been hearing. When a culture changes it hits more than 2 or 3 players. It’s organizational.

Unless culture is going to go out there and run the PnR, this yard stick you're pulling out is irrelevant. Teams come out flat all the time at full strength, let alone when they are missing 44 pts from their lineup. Everyone from the Warriors to the Bulls will have games like this.

Where was this yesterday when they were playing gritty ball? What about when they waxed Miami?

I guess the Heat have terrible culture now, since they lost on a back-to-back on the road. Same with the Thunder, Spurs, Warriors, Cavs, etc...

I'm not saying the Knicks are the Spurs culture wise, but measuring them during the stretch makes no sense

Measuring them at all makes no sense then.

People got to measure them in the beginning of November, no? Where was all of this then?

I actually would agree with you it were to go both ways.

Both ways with what?

When healthy, the Knicks are a completely average team who can beat .500 and below teams at home and who are terrible on the road. They are talented enough to hover within punching range of .500, but not talented enough to sustain losing their best players all at once.

I don't think anyone had any illusions otherwise.

[3toheadmelo]

And? Players miss games everyday.

That doesn’t mean we should be looking like pure garbage while giving up 38 point leads to teams. Especially if our so called culture has been changed. All year that’s what I’ve been hearing. When a culture changes it hits more than 2 or 3 players. It’s organizational.

facts
spurs rallied back from a 15 point deficit to OKC without aldridge/kawhi/gay... ain't no culture over here

Spurs also got smacked around by the Magic, the Pelicans and had a 4 game losing streak this season.

How's the culture in OKC?

and? those mfers have the best defense in the league and have a positive record. spurs are laughing at us

[BBALLER4FR]

Knicks honestly need at least 1 more blue chip prospect. 1 prospect who can be better than KP or at least a legit 2nd option next to KP.

I never envisioned Frank as an all-star, but more as a glue guy on a elite level team. A starter who is a terrific defender, able to consistently hit the 3 and be a solid playmaker. Maybe like the PG version of a Draymond.

If we get that prospect and hit a hr with the pick, it'll be much easier to contend for a title. Then we can sign solid or even elite level free agents if we are smart with our cap space.

He'll never become that. Officials don't respect his defense now hence the consistent foul trouble. The one thing he can do better than all else is strangely being pegged as a detriment, and these kinds of things tend to follow players. Avery Bradley was always considered a fierce defender and he immediately got the benifit of the doubt. Kawhi Leonard. Marcus Smart. But Frank is not allowed to be as physical as any of these guys which worries me because without that all he has going for him is "stretchy arms".

[3toheadmelo]

And? Players miss games everyday.

That doesn’t mean we should be looking like pure garbage while giving up 38 point leads to teams. Especially if our so called culture has been changed. All year that’s what I’ve been hearing. When a culture changes it hits more than 2 or 3 players. It’s organizational.

facts
spurs rallied back from a 15 point deficit to OKC without aldridge/kawhi/gay... ain't no culture over here

We have a culture. It’s not the right one yet. But we have a culture. I’m still waiting for elite guards and have been waiting since...since(???).

Allan Houston?

at least tim is a upgrade from jr/shump... hopefully frank turns out to be great too

[GONYK]

facts
spurs rallied back from a 15 point deficit to OKC without aldridge/kawhi/gay... ain't no culture over here

Spurs also got smacked around by the Magic, the Pelicans and had a 4 game losing streak this season.

How's the culture in OKC?

and? those mfers have the best defense in the league and have a positive record. spurs are laughing at us

Who said we are the Spurs? You guys are introducing that into the argument so you have some straw man to beat up on.

The Knicks are a better team than they have been the last 6 games, simply because they are a better team when they have KP, Kanter, and Timmy on the floor.

If you disagree with that, then you are just being foolish.

[GONYK]

Knicks honestly need at least 1 more blue chip prospect. 1 prospect who can be better than KP or at least a legit 2nd option next to KP.

I never envisioned Frank as an all-star, but more as a glue guy on a elite level team. A starter who is a terrific defender, able to consistently hit the 3 and be a solid playmaker. Maybe like the PG version of a Draymond.

If we get that prospect and hit a hr with the pick, it'll be much easier to contend for a title. Then we can sign solid or even elite level free agents if we are smart with our cap space.

He'll never become that. Officials don't respect his defense now hence the consistent foul trouble. The one thing he can do better than all else is strangely being pegged as a detriment, and these kinds of things tend to follow players. Avery Bradley was always considered a fierce defender and he immediately got the benifit of the doubt. Kawhi Leonard. Marcus Smart. But Frank is not allowed to be as physical as any of these guys which worries me because without that all he has going for him is "stretchy arms".

Just like KP was always going to be foul prone right?

[Greenie]

Unless culture is going to go out there and run the PnR, this yard stick you're pulling out is irrelevant. Teams come out flat all the time at full strength, let alone when they are missing 44 pts from their lineup. Everyone from the Warriors to the Bulls will have games like this.

Where was this yesterday when they were playing gritty ball? What about when they waxed Miami?

I guess the Heat have terrible culture now, since they lost on a back-to-back on the road. Same with the Thunder, Spurs, Warriors, Cavs, etc...

I'm not saying the Knicks are the Spurs culture wise, but measuring them during the stretch makes no sense

Measuring them at all makes no sense then.

People got to measure them in the beginning of November, no? Where was all of this then?

I actually would agree with you it were to go both ways.

Both ways with what?

When healthy, the Knicks are a completely average team who can beat .500 and below teams at home and who are terrible on the road. They are talented enough to hover within punching range of .500, but not talented enough to sustain losing their best players all at once.

I don't think anyone had any illusions otherwise.

Oh yes they did. Go back and look in the PG after wins.

Also, IMO we are not average. We are below that feasting in a easy schedule and home games. Average teams win more than 1 game in the road by December. Hence why I’m team tank.

[3toheadmelo]

Spurs also got smacked around by the Magic, the Pelicans and had a 4 game losing streak this season.

How's the culture in OKC?

and? those mfers have the best defense in the league and have a positive record. spurs are laughing at us

Who said we are the Spurs? You guys are introducing that into the argument so you have some straw man to beat up on.

The Knicks are a better team than they have been the last 6 games, simply because they are a better team when they have KP, Kanter, and Timmy on the floor.

If you disagree with that, then you are just being foolish.

who said we aren't? it's just inexcusable for us to show no type of fight without them.

[Since89]

Sub 40% shooter who averages 4 ast:3 to per game, and already has a blown out knee

No thanks

[Greenie]

and? those mfers have the best defense in the league and have a positive record. spurs are laughing at us

Who said we are the Spurs? You guys are introducing that into the argument so you have some straw man to beat up on.

The Knicks are a better team than they have been the last 6 games, simply because they are a better team when they have KP, Kanter, and Timmy on the floor.

If you disagree with that, then you are just being foolish.

who said we aren't? it's just inexcusable for us to show no type of fight without them.

Basically.

[GONYK]

Measuring them at all makes no sense then.

People got to measure them in the beginning of November, no? Where was all of this then?

I actually would agree with you it were to go both ways.

Both ways with what?

When healthy, the Knicks are a completely average team who can beat .500 and below teams at home and who are terrible on the road. They are talented enough to hover within punching range of .500, but not talented enough to sustain losing their best players all at once.

I don't think anyone had any illusions otherwise.

Oh yes they did. Go back and look in the PG after wins.

Also, IMO we are not average. We are below that feasting in a easy schedule and home games. Average teams win more than 1 game in the road by December. Hence why I’m team tank.

I'm not against tanking. That's not what this is about.

Average teams have .500 records. That's it. If the Knicks went 41-0 at home and 0-41 on the road, they would still be the very definition of average.

[GONYK]

Who said we are the Spurs? You guys are introducing that into the argument so you have some straw man to beat up on.

The Knicks are a better team than they have been the last 6 games, simply because they are a better team when they have KP, Kanter, and Timmy on the floor.

If you disagree with that, then you are just being foolish.

who said we aren't? it's just inexcusable for us to show no type of fight without them.

Basically.

We literally fought without them last night. Not happy about it, but it happens to every team in the league on back-to-backs.

It's not a loss that invalidates the entire season before it.

[RHODEY]

No it’s not when people are preaching system and culture being fixed.

Losing your franchise player on top of additional 18ppg scorers hurts, no matter what your system and culture are.

The fact that the Knicks aren't talented enough to overcome that still doesn't mean that the last 6 games is who this team is.

That kind analysis is better served for teams who are still sh*tty when all their talent is on the floor every night.

We have been smacked plenty and humbled at full strength.

The Celtics and Cavs come to mind right away.

\

Celtics maybe. We humbled the Cavs as much as they humbled us.

[RiseOfTheEmpire]

I'm not saying the Knicks are world beaters, but to use this 6 game stretch as the measuring stick for the season this far is pretty disingenuous

No it’s not when people are preaching system and culture being fixed.

Losing your franchise player on top of additional 18ppg scorers hurts, no matter what your system and culture are.

The fact that the Knicks aren't talented enough to overcome that still doesn't mean that the last 6 games is who this team is.

That kind analysis is better served for teams who are still sh*tty when all their talent is on the floor every night.

Yeah, like all the past few seasons we didn't make it to the playoffs with a superstar in the line up.

[Greenie]

Both ways with what?

When healthy, the Knicks are a completely average team who can beat .500 and below teams at home and who are terrible on the road. They are talented enough to hover within punching range of .500, but not talented enough to sustain losing their best players all at once.

I don't think anyone had any illusions otherwise.

Oh yes they did. Go back and look in the PG after wins.

Also, IMO we are not average. We are below that feasting in a easy schedule and home games. Average teams win more than 1 game in the road by December. Hence why I’m team tank.

I'm not against tanking. That's not what this is about.

Average teams have .500 records. That's it. If the Knicks went 41-0 at home and 0-41 on the road, they would still be the very definition of average.

You’re not winning every home game.

Hell, we’ve lost a few of those already.

[Clyde_Style]

The next five games are winnable if KP comes back. We should be above .500 when we play OKC. I wouldn't count on a tank anytime soon.

......... just when my treads were starting to turn, harumph!

Grizz, Bulls, Hawks, Lakers, Nets...some sorry teams.

[BBALLER4FR]

Knicks honestly need at least 1 more blue chip prospect. 1 prospect who can be better than KP or at least a legit 2nd option next to KP.

I never envisioned Frank as an all-star, but more as a glue guy on a elite level team. A starter who is a terrific defender, able to consistently hit the 3 and be a solid playmaker. Maybe like the PG version of a Draymond.

If we get that prospect and hit a hr with the pick, it'll be much easier to contend for a title. Then we can sign solid or even elite level free agents if we are smart with our cap space.

He'll never become that. Officials don't respect his defense now hence the consistent foul trouble. The one thing he can do better than all else is strangely being pegged as a detriment, and these kinds of things tend to follow players. Avery Bradley was always considered a fierce defender and he immediately got the benifit of the doubt. Kawhi Leonard. Marcus Smart. But Frank is not allowed to be as physical as any of these guys which worries me because without that all he has going for him is "stretchy arms".

Just like KP was always going to be foul prone right?

I'm not saying Frank can't broaden his game, but fierce defenders are recognized early. Frank, despite his tremendous effort, long frame and, I like to think, good instincts, can't stay out of foul trouble vs quick PG's. Like he racks em up quick. So unless his new position is SG, he won't be the anything version of Draymond. And KP was thought to be foul prone when some wingnut decided it would be a novel idea to watch a 7'3" player chase the leagues SF's around the perimeter. At the big position (where he started his Knick career) he's fine.

Back to Ntilikina... until he shows improvement in quick decision making without hesitation on the offense and an improved stroke, he will be an average guard.

[Greenie]

No it’s not when people are preaching system and culture being fixed.

Losing your franchise player on top of additional 18ppg scorers hurts, no matter what your system and culture are.

The fact that the Knicks aren't talented enough to overcome that still doesn't mean that the last 6 games is who this team is.

That kind analysis is better served for teams who are still sh*tty when all their talent is on the floor every night.

Yeah, like all the past few seasons we didn't make it to the playoffs with a superstar in the line up.

Are you putting this up at the end of this year sir? No?

Stop pulling a dude not here into this conversation.

I’m talking about this roster and the so called culture change we were told is here.