Post game: No Papa Johns

[GONYK]

Oh yes they did. Go back and look in the PG after wins.

Also, IMO we are not average. We are below that feasting in a easy schedule and home games. Average teams win more than 1 game in the road by December. Hence why I’m team tank.

I'm not against tanking. That's not what this is about.

Average teams have .500 records. That's it. If the Knicks went 41-0 at home and 0-41 on the road, they would still be the very definition of average.

You’re not winning every home game.

Hell, we’ve lost a few of those already.

Hence why I used the word "if". .500 record = average. It is the definition of average. It doesn't matter where you get your wins and losses.

It's math.

[GONYK]

He'll never become that. Officials don't respect his defense now hence the consistent foul trouble. The one thing he can do better than all else is strangely being pegged as a detriment, and these kinds of things tend to follow players. Avery Bradley was always considered a fierce defender and he immediately got the benifit of the doubt. Kawhi Leonard. Marcus Smart. But Frank is not allowed to be as physical as any of these guys which worries me because without that all he has going for him is "stretchy arms".

Just like KP was always going to be foul prone right?

I'm not saying Frank can't broaden his game, but fierce defenders are recognized early. Frank, despite his tremendous effort, long frame and, I like to think, good instincts, can't stay out of foul trouble vs quick PG's. Like he racks em up quick. So unless his new position is SG, he won't be the anything version of Draymond. And KP was thought to be foul prone when some wingnut decided it would be a novel idea to watch a 7'3" player chase the leagues SF's around the perimeter. At the big position (where he started his Knick career) he's fine.

Back to Ntilikina... until he shows improvement in quick decision making without hesitation on the offense and an improved stroke, he will be an average guard.

What does his decision making on offense have to do with his defense? Plenty of players come into the league and foul all over the place.

Writing off his entire potential as a defender in the league based on how he fouls as a 19 year old rookie is beyond premature. Especially when it's clear as day that he's already shown positive defensive impact.

[Red Vines]

The transition to Frank needs to start now or make a roster move because Jack is fading fast. You can see he's lacking energy on both ends, he's just wearing down. If they think he can start the rest of the year they're crazy, he won't last.

[Greenie]

I'm not against tanking. That's not what this is about.

Average teams have .500 records. That's it. If the Knicks went 41-0 at home and 0-41 on the road, they would still be the very definition of average.

You’re not winning every home game.

Hell, we’ve lost a few of those already.

Hence why I used the word "if". .500 record = average. It is the definition of average. It doesn't matter where you get your wins and losses.

It's math.

There was no need to bring that up.
We don’t fall in that category.

[Greenie]

The transition to Frank needs to start now or make a roster move because Jack is fading fast. You can see he's lacking energy on both ends, he's just wearing down. If they think he can start the rest of the year they're crazy, he won't last.

Frank was supposed to start from jump.

[BBALLER4FR]

Just like KP was always going to be foul prone right?

I'm not saying Frank can't broaden his game, but fierce defenders are recognized early. Frank, despite his tremendous effort, long frame and, I like to think, good instincts, can't stay out of foul trouble vs quick PG's. Like he racks em up quick. So unless his new position is SG, he won't be the anything version of Draymond. And KP was thought to be foul prone when some wingnut decided it would be a novel idea to watch a 7'3" player chase the leagues SF's around the perimeter. At the big position (where he started his Knick career) he's fine.

Back to Ntilikina... until he shows improvement in quick decision making without hesitation on the offense and an improved stroke, he will be an average guard.

What does his decision making on offense have to do with his defense? Plenty of players come into the league and foul all over the place.

Writing off his entire potential as a defender in the league based on how he fouls as a 19 year old rookie is beyond premature. Especially when it's clear as day that he's already shown positive defensive impact.

Again, I'm not saying decent player once he expands his game but NOT Draymond level defender

A) He's on the Knicks, not the Celtics, and we never get the benefit of calls.

B) I've already stated if the officials don't recognize him as a really good defender right now (and they don't), they won't. See point A

[GONYK]

You’re not winning every home game.

Hell, we’ve lost a few of those already.

Hence why I used the word "if". .500 record = average. It is the definition of average. It doesn't matter where you get your wins and losses.

It's math.

There was no need to bring that up.
We don’t fall in that category.

Of course we do. Going into tonight we were 11-11.

.500. We are an average team.

When healthy, we are slightly above average. With injuries to our best players, we are clearly below average.

You are what your record says you are.

[Greenie]

Hence why I used the word "if". .500 record = average. It is the definition of average. It doesn't matter where you get your wins and losses.

It's math.

There was no need to bring that up.
We don’t fall in that category.

Of course we do. Going into tonight we were 11-11.

.500. We are an average team.

When healthy, we are slightly above average. With injuries to our best players, we are clearly below average.

You are what your record says you are.

I will simply go back to my original post in this topic and agree to disagree because I’m going to bed now.

“Also, IMO we are not average. We are below that feasting on an easy schedule and home games. Average teams win more than 1 game in the road by December. Hence why I’m team tank.”

[GONYK]

I'm not saying Frank can't broaden his game, but fierce defenders are recognized early. Frank, despite his tremendous effort, long frame and, I like to think, good instincts, can't stay out of foul trouble vs quick PG's. Like he racks em up quick. So unless his new position is SG, he won't be the anything version of Draymond. And KP was thought to be foul prone when some wingnut decided it would be a novel idea to watch a 7'3" player chase the leagues SF's around the perimeter. At the big position (where he started his Knick career) he's fine.

Back to Ntilikina... until he shows improvement in quick decision making without hesitation on the offense and an improved stroke, he will be an average guard.

What does his decision making on offense have to do with his defense? Plenty of players come into the league and foul all over the place.

Writing off his entire potential as a defender in the league based on how he fouls as a 19 year old rookie is beyond premature. Especially when it's clear as day that he's already shown positive defensive impact.

A) He's on the Knicks, not the Celtics, and we never get the benefit of calls.

B) I've already stated if the officials don't recognize him as a really good defender right now (and they don't), they won't. See point A

Yet Porzingis plays for the Knicks, was very foul prone playing the 4.

Now he's still playing the 4, and yet is not foul prone, and was not traded to the Celtics.

It's almost like he made adjustments to NBA officiating as he gained experience, and now the refs don't call him for fouls.

[GONYK]

There was no need to bring that up.
We don’t fall in that category.

Of course we do. Going into tonight we were 11-11.

.500. We are an average team.

When healthy, we are slightly above average. With injuries to our best players, we are clearly below average.

You are what your record says you are.

I will simply go back to my original post in this topic and agree to disagree because I’m going to bed now.

“Also, IMO we are not average. We are below that feasting on an easy schedule and home games. Average teams win more than 1 game in the road by December. Hence why I’m team tank.”

You can disagree if you like, but you don't get to define average.

Average teams win around half their games. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter to the W-L column, or to the conference seedings which city those wins came in.

Simple math.

Good night

[dakomish23]

Knicks honestly need at least 1 more blue chip prospect. 1 prospect who can be better than KP or at least a legit 2nd option next to KP.

I never envisioned Frank as an all-star, but more as a glue guy on a elite level team. A starter who is a terrific defender, able to consistently hit the 3 and be a solid playmaker. Maybe like the PG version of a Draymond.

If we get that prospect and hit a hr with the pick, it'll be much easier to contend for a title. Then we can sign solid or even elite level free agents if we are smart with our cap space.

YEP

But the fact that you want that for KP makes you a fake fan!

[GONYK]

Knicks honestly need at least 1 more blue chip prospect. 1 prospect who can be better than KP or at least a legit 2nd option next to KP.

I never envisioned Frank as an all-star, but more as a glue guy on a elite level team. A starter who is a terrific defender, able to consistently hit the 3 and be a solid playmaker. Maybe like the PG version of a Draymond.

If we get that prospect and hit a hr with the pick, it'll be much easier to contend for a title. Then we can sign solid or even elite level free agents if we are smart with our cap space.

YEP

But the fact that you want that for KP makes you a fake fan!

It doesn't make you a fake fan, but it also doesn't change that when KP and Timmy come back the team will probably go back to hovering around .500.

And I'm not anti-tank in the least.

[BBALLER4FR]

What does his decision making on offense have to do with his defense? Plenty of players come into the league and foul all over the place.

Writing off his entire potential as a defender in the league based on how he fouls as a 19 year old rookie is beyond premature. Especially when it's clear as day that he's already shown positive defensive impact.

A) He's on the Knicks, not the Celtics, and we never get the benefit of calls.

B) I've already stated if the officials don't recognize him as a really good defender right now (and they don't), they won't. See point A

Yet Porzingis plays for the Knicks, was very foul prone playing the 4.

Now he's still playing the 4, and yet is not foul prone, and was not traded to the Celtics.

It's almost like he made adjustments to NBA officiating as he gained experience, and now the refs don't call him for fouls.

Either the PF's have changed from a year ago or he was guarding a shiton of SF's back then because he was running ragged on the perimeter and easily getting into foul trouble. Something changed and it sure ain't the refs respecting him because nowadays he gets bullied on offense with no calls.

[Garbagelo]

You guys bought some fool's gold and now no one wants to take if off your hands.

[Capn'O]

The Knicks are ok with KP and really bad without him. More than anything, he's the keystone of the defense.

So KP will either come back healthy and play a bunch of games or he won't and the team's fortunes will follow suit. Not much that whatever dumb "team" I'm on can do about that

[Capn'O]

Knicks honestly need at least 1 more blue chip prospect. 1 prospect who can be better than KP or at least a legit 2nd option next to KP.

I never envisioned Frank as an all-star, but more as a glue guy on a elite level team. A starter who is a terrific defender, able to consistently hit the 3 and be a solid playmaker. Maybe like the PG version of a Draymond.

If we get that prospect and hit a hr with the pick, it'll be much easier to contend for a title. Then we can sign solid or even elite level free agents if we are smart with our cap space.

YEP

But the fact that you want that for KP makes you a fake fan!

It doesn't make you a fake fan, but it also doesn't change that when KP and Timmy come back the team will probably go back to hovering around .500.

And I'm not anti-tank in the least.

What, you mean you won't regret having enjoyed some good play if the team doesn't get an ideal draft slot. You should be filled with regret. And shame. FILLED. WITH. REGRET. AND. SHAME!!!

[GONYK]

A) He's on the Knicks, not the Celtics, and we never get the benefit of calls.

B) I've already stated if the officials don't recognize him as a really good defender right now (and they don't), they won't. See point A

Yet Porzingis plays for the Knicks, was very foul prone playing the 4.

Now he's still playing the 4, and yet is not foul prone, and was not traded to the Celtics.

It's almost like he made adjustments to NBA officiating as he gained experience, and now the refs don't call him for fouls.

Either the PF's have changed from a year ago or he was guarding a **** of SF's back then because he was running ragged on the perimeter and easily getting into foul trouble. Something changed and it sure ain't the refs respecting him because nowadays he gets bullied on offense with no calls.

KP has spent 0% of his career at SF, and has spent 92% of his minutes at PF this year. He's also still protecting the rim at an elite rate and pretty much anchoring our defense. Yet, he's not being called for fouls.

And not that offense has anything to do with your argument at all, but KP's FTA per game has jumped from 4 to 7, which puts him at 11th in the league. So clearly, he's getting respect from someone with the ability to call fouls in his favor.

[GONYK]

The Knicks are ok with KP and really bad without him. More than anything, he's the keystone of the defense.

So KP will either come back healthy and play a bunch of games or he won't and the team's fortunes will follow suit. Not much that whatever dumb "team" I'm on can do about that

[mpharris36]

The Knicks are ok with KP and really bad without him. More than anything, he's the keystone of the defense.

So KP will either come back healthy and play a bunch of games or he won't and the team's fortunes will follow suit. Not much that whatever dumb "team" I'm on can do about that

well said

hence we are 11-8 with KP and 0-4 when KP doesn't play

[xNewYorkMadex]

No Papa Johns, but give me some Papagiannis