Booker or Kaminsky

[bondom34]

I can't believe this dude just said Tyler Ulis...

Quick someone start a "Tyler Ulis or Matthew Dellevedova" Player Comparison Thread...

I recognize your username now, I've seen you trolling before but usually its more subtle than that

I wouldn't do this.

[HoopsMalone]

You are just posting your (mostly wrong) opinions and DPM.

Why are they wrong, and what is "DPM"?

Which is a terrible defensive metric dude.

Why?

Booker is AWFUl defensively by any stretch of imagination. He's literally on one of the worst defensive teams in NBA history and he's arguably the worst defender on it.... I say arguably because you could argue for any number of guys on that roster right now. Look at his Defensive RPM? It's off the charts bad....

They're not even worst in the league by a large margin, and if you don't include the 3 games under Watson not even worst this season. Defensive deficiencies on the perimeter aren't nearly as impactful as for bigs (see KAT, Kanter, Okafor), and I'd add Lou Will, Crawford, and Shabazz as worse defensive SGs alone before even going to other positions. Also he isn't worst on his team, Warren and Chriss among others

Tyler Ulis? Are you freaking kidding me... okay now I'm pretty sure you're just trolling me. I think we're done here. You're either a HUGE booker fan or just messing around at this point...

Ulis is a point guard. Booker is not. If you'd like they could play Alex Len at PG too, because he's as much one as Booker. If you'd actually add some substance to your argument it would help.

You know exactly what BPM is dude. And you know exactly what you're doing here.

I've provided more than enough substance as to why I don't think Booker will become a very good player. I simply don't see him making the transition to PG that he needs to make to become a high impact player in this league. His defense is far too limiting of a factor for him to become an impact 2 way SG.

And yes, Phoenix is ranked dead last in the league in defensive efficiency. And I expect that to continue to get worse as this team self combusts over the course of the year.

[bondom34]

You know exactly what BPM is dude.

Ah, BPM. You said DPM, which isn't a thing.

And you know exactly what you're doing here.

Correcting you, yes.

I've provided more than enough substance as to why I don't think Booker will become a very good player.

You didn't, you just spouted a few things with no information to back it and no updated information, despite clear improvements from Booker and him playing at a similar or better level than Beal did at the same age.

I simply don't see him making the transition to PG that he needs to make to become a high impact player in this league. His defense is far too limiting of a factor for him to become an impact 2 way SG.

Except we've seen time and again far worse players be highly impactful. See Harden, Lillard, McCollum as three easy examples.

[HoopsMalone]

You know exactly what BPM is dude.

Ah, BPM. You said DPM, which isn't a thing.

And you know exactly what you're doing here.

Correcting you, yes.

I've provided more than enough substance as to why I don't think Booker will become a very good player.

You didn't, you just spouted a few things with no information to back it and no updated information, despite clear improvements from Booker and him playing at a similar or better level than Beal did at the same age.

I simply don't see him making the transition to PG that he needs to make to become a high impact player in this league. His defense is far too limiting of a factor for him to become an impact 2 way SG.

Except we've seen time and again far worse players be highly impactful. See Harden, Lillard, McCollum as three easy examples.

I make a typo and it comes out DPM... you know exactly what we're discussing... you made a typo and it came out Tyler Ulis

[bondom34]

You know exactly what BPM is dude.

Ah, BPM. You said DPM, which isn't a thing.

And you know exactly what you're doing here.

Correcting you, yes.

I've provided more than enough substance as to why I don't think Booker will become a very good player.

You didn't, you just spouted a few things with no information to back it and no updated information, despite clear improvements from Booker and him playing at a similar or better level than Beal did at the same age.

I simply don't see him making the transition to PG that he needs to make to become a high impact player in this league. His defense is far too limiting of a factor for him to become an impact 2 way SG.

Except we've seen time and again far worse players be highly impactful. See Harden, Lillard, McCollum as three easy examples.

I make a typo and it comes out DPM... you know exactly what we're discussing... you made a typo and it came out Tyler Ulis

No, Ulis is a PG. Booker is not. DPM literally doesn't exist.

But now you can't even remain on the topic of the thread and substantiate an opinion that can't be substantiated.

[HoopsMalone]

Ah, BPM. You said DPM, which isn't a thing.


Correcting you, yes.



You didn't, you just spouted a few things with no information to back it and no updated information, despite clear improvements from Booker and him playing at a similar or better level than Beal did at the same age.

Except we've seen time and again far worse players be highly impactful. See Harden, Lillard, McCollum as three easy examples.

I make a typo and it comes out DPM... you know exactly what we're discussing... you made a typo and it came out Tyler Ulis

No, Ulis is a PG. Booker is not. DPM literally doesn't exist.

But now you can't even remain on the topic of the thread and substantiate an opinion that can't be substantiated.

If Booker can beat out Mike James and Tyler Ulis for the starting PG gig perhaps he can demonstrate some true value. As a wing player in this league he's simply too poor defensively. I'm not fooled by his raaw scoring totals. He's highly unlikely to have any positive value on a max deal.

[bondom34]

I make a typo and it comes out DPM... you know exactly what we're discussing... you made a typo and it came out Tyler Ulis

No, Ulis is a PG. Booker is not. DPM literally doesn't exist.

But now you can't even remain on the topic of the thread and substantiate an opinion that can't be substantiated.

If Booker can beat out Mike James and Tyler Ulis for the starting PG gig perhaps he can demonstrate some true value. As a wing player in this league he's simply too poor defensively. I'm not fooled by his raaw scoring totals. He's highly unlikely to have any positive value on a max deal.

He's not a point guard.

You've yet to substantiate your opinion and haven't provided anything other than repeating yourself. He's not even the worst defensive SG in the league, nor worst on his own team. He's not a PG either. I'm not basing it off raw scoring either, but literally nothing you've stated has been backed by anything other than you repeating it.

You just saying it more is only hurting you here.

[HoopsMalone]

No, Ulis is a PG. Booker is not. DPM literally doesn't exist.

But now you can't even remain on the topic of the thread and substantiate an opinion that can't be substantiated.

If Booker can beat out Mike James and Tyler Ulis for the starting PG gig perhaps he can demonstrate some true value. As a wing player in this league he's simply too poor defensively. I'm not fooled by his raaw scoring totals. He's highly unlikely to have any positive value on a max deal.

He's not a point guard.

You've yet to substantiate your opinion and haven't provided anything other than repeating yourself. He's not even the worst defensive SG in the league, nor worst on his own team. He's not a PG either. I'm not basing it off raw scoring either, but literally nothing you've stated has been backed by anything other than you repeating it.

You just saying it more is only hurting you here.

I get it. You're a big Booker fan. I do not see him as a great prospect and I don't care to continue this conversation. I don't care what your opinion of my opinion is, I'm finished with this conversation because nothing is going to change your opinion on this guy and you aren't willing to have a honest conversation about how limiting his defense is at the wing position. He's going to need to become a PG to become an impact player in this league IMO.

[bondom34]

If Booker can beat out Mike James and Tyler Ulis for the starting PG gig perhaps he can demonstrate some true value. As a wing player in this league he's simply too poor defensively. I'm not fooled by his raaw scoring totals. He's highly unlikely to have any positive value on a max deal.

He's not a point guard.

You've yet to substantiate your opinion and haven't provided anything other than repeating yourself. He's not even the worst defensive SG in the league, nor worst on his own team. He's not a PG either. I'm not basing it off raw scoring either, but literally nothing you've stated has been backed by anything other than you repeating it.

You just saying it more is only hurting you here.

I get it. You're a big Booker fan. I do not see him as a great prospect and I don't care to continue this conversation. I don't care what your opinion of my opinion is, I'm finished with this conversation because nothing is going to change your opinion on this guy and you aren't willing to have a honest conversation about how limiting his defense is at the wing position. He's going to need to become a PG to become an impact player in this league IMO.

Actually I'm not. But you simply parroting yourself doesn't prove a thing, it's like Kyrie saying the earth is flat over and over. Say it 1 million times and its still got no factual basis. Harden was an awful defender. McCollum is. Lillard. Kyrie. The list goes on and on. Gary Harris is bad, Olaipo was at one time bad. And yet, not one of these players is bad or not worth their contract.

[HoopsMalone]

He's not a point guard.

You've yet to substantiate your opinion and haven't provided anything other than repeating yourself. He's not even the worst defensive SG in the league, nor worst on his own team. He's not a PG either. I'm not basing it off raw scoring either, but literally nothing you've stated has been backed by anything other than you repeating it.

You just saying it more is only hurting you here.

I get it. You're a big Booker fan. I do not see him as a great prospect and I don't care to continue this conversation. I don't care what your opinion of my opinion is, I'm finished with this conversation because nothing is going to change your opinion on this guy and you aren't willing to have a honest conversation about how limiting his defense is at the wing position. He's going to need to become a PG to become an impact player in this league IMO.

Actually I'm not. But you simply parroting yourself doesn't prove a thing, it's like Kyrie saying the earth is flat over and over. Say it 1 million times and its still got no factual basis. Harden was an awful defender. McCollum is. Lillard. Kyrie. The list goes on and on. Gary Harris is bad, Olaipo was at one time bad. And yet, not one of these players is bad or not worth their contract.

Okay first of all Kyrie and Lillard ARE BOTH POINT GUARDS. Let's be clear about that.

James Harden MOVED TO POINT GUARD. Let's be clear about that.

McCollum IS NOT AN IMPACT PLAYER. Let's be clear about that.

Gary Harris is a GOOD DEFENDER. Let's be clear about that.


and Oladipo was a star defender in college who always projected as a very good defender. Booker does not. Let's be clear about that.

[bondom34]

I get it. You're a big Booker fan. I do not see him as a great prospect and I don't care to continue this conversation. I don't care what your opinion of my opinion is, I'm finished with this conversation because nothing is going to change your opinion on this guy and you aren't willing to have a honest conversation about how limiting his defense is at the wing position. He's going to need to become a PG to become an impact player in this league IMO.

Actually I'm not. But you simply parroting yourself doesn't prove a thing, it's like Kyrie saying the earth is flat over and over. Say it 1 million times and its still got no factual basis. Harden was an awful defender. McCollum is. Lillard. Kyrie. The list goes on and on. Gary Harris is bad, Olaipo was at one time bad. And yet, not one of these players is bad or not worth their contract.

Okay first of all Kyrie and Lillard ARE BOTH POINT GUARDS. Let's be clear about that.

James Harden MOVED TO POINT GUARD. Let's be clear about that.

McCollum IS NOT AN IMPACT PLAYER. Let's be clear about that.

Gary Harris is a GOOD DEFENDER. Let's be clear about that.


and Oladipo was a star defender in college who always projected as a very good defender. Booker does not. Let's be clear about that.

First off, Harris is not a good defender, an he's on an awful defensive team.

McCollum is an impact player. And if you really think this I'm starting a new poll because lol.

And there's no difference between if you're a bad defensive SG or bad defensive PG.;

And Harden was a bad defensive SG who was an impact player for years before being a PG.

[HoopsMalone]

Actually I'm not. But you simply parroting yourself doesn't prove a thing, it's like Kyrie saying the earth is flat over and over. Say it 1 million times and its still got no factual basis. Harden was an awful defender. McCollum is. Lillard. Kyrie. The list goes on and on. Gary Harris is bad, Olaipo was at one time bad. And yet, not one of these players is bad or not worth their contract.

Okay first of all Kyrie and Lillard ARE BOTH POINT GUARDS. Let's be clear about that.

James Harden MOVED TO POINT GUARD. Let's be clear about that.

McCollum IS NOT AN IMPACT PLAYER. Let's be clear about that.

Gary Harris is a GOOD DEFENDER. Let's be clear about that.


and Oladipo was a star defender in college who always projected as a very good defender. Booker does not. Let's be clear about that.

First off, Harris is not a good defender, an he's on an awful defensive team.

McCollum is an impact player. And if you really think this I'm starting a new poll because lol.

And there's no difference between if you're a bad defensive SG or bad defensive PG.;

And Harden was a bad defensive SG who was an impact player for years before being a PG.

If you actually think Gary Harris is a bad defender you have no clue what you are talking about. He was a defensive stud coming out of college that was drafted as a defensive prospect. The concern on him was if he'd ever develop enough of an offensive game (turns out he became an elite 3 point shooter).


And yes there is a huge difference between being a bad defender at PG or SG. The PG is being screened most of the time anyway so he doesn't have as much defensive responsibility. Additionally, you can hide one bad defender on a team's non-threat or weak ballhandler.... you need your PG to be elite offensively to compete in the NBA so typically he is going to be the weak defender as it makes sense to sacrifice defense for offense. However, if he's a weak defender and you pair him with a weak SG defender you end up with problems.

That is why if Booker can learn to play the point then he can become an impact player. If he can't then he's just the next CJ McCollum. I.E. just another Empty stats guy.

[bondom34]

Okay first of all Kyrie and Lillard ARE BOTH POINT GUARDS. Let's be clear about that.

James Harden MOVED TO POINT GUARD. Let's be clear about that.

McCollum IS NOT AN IMPACT PLAYER. Let's be clear about that.

Gary Harris is a GOOD DEFENDER. Let's be clear about that.


and Oladipo was a star defender in college who always projected as a very good defender. Booker does not. Let's be clear about that.

First off, Harris is not a good defender, an he's on an awful defensive team.

McCollum is an impact player. And if you really think this I'm starting a new poll because lol.

And there's no difference between if you're a bad defensive SG or bad defensive PG.;

And Harden was a bad defensive SG who was an impact player for years before being a PG.

If you actually think Gary Harris is a bad defender you have no clue what you are talking about. He was a defensive stud coming out of college that was drafted as a defensive prospect. The concern on him was if he'd ever develop enough of an offensive game (turns out he became an elite 3 point shooter).


And yes there is a huge difference between being a bad defender at PG or SG. The PG is being screened most of the time anyway so he doesn't have as much defensive responsibility. Additionally, you can hide one bad defender on a team's non-threat or weak ballhandler.... you need your PG to be elite offensively to compete in the NBA so typically he is going to be the weak defender as it makes sense to sacrifice defense for offense. However, if he's a weak defender and you pair him with a weak SG defender you end up with problems.

Harris's college defense isn't relevant in the pros. Westbrook was Pac 10 DPOY. And Harden was a SG until last year and was a near MVP with awful defense so your second point is still factually incorrect.

You're going to need more than platitudes and hot takes if you want to keep this going because your laughably wrong on just about all of it.

[HoopsMalone]

First off, Harris is not a good defender, an he's on an awful defensive team.

McCollum is an impact player. And if you really think this I'm starting a new poll because lol.

And there's no difference between if you're a bad defensive SG or bad defensive PG.;

And Harden was a bad defensive SG who was an impact player for years before being a PG.

If you actually think Gary Harris is a bad defender you have no clue what you are talking about. He was a defensive stud coming out of college that was drafted as a defensive prospect. The concern on him was if he'd ever develop enough of an offensive game (turns out he became an elite 3 point shooter).


And yes there is a huge difference between being a bad defender at PG or SG. The PG is being screened most of the time anyway so he doesn't have as much defensive responsibility. Additionally, you can hide one bad defender on a team's non-threat or weak ballhandler.... you need your PG to be elite offensively to compete in the NBA so typically he is going to be the weak defender as it makes sense to sacrifice defense for offense. However, if he's a weak defender and you pair him with a weak SG defender you end up with problems.

Harris's college defense isn't relevant in the pros. Westbrook was Pac 10 DPOY. And Harden was a SG until last year and was a near MVP with awful defense so your second point is still factually incorrect.

You're going to need more than platitudes and hot takes if you want to keep this going because your laughably wrong on just about all of it.

Oh, it's plenty relevant. Harris is an elite defender. You aren't someone worth responding to because you can't admit it when you're wrong.

[bondom34]

If you actually think Gary Harris is a bad defender you have no clue what you are talking about. He was a defensive stud coming out of college that was drafted as a defensive prospect. The concern on him was if he'd ever develop enough of an offensive game (turns out he became an elite 3 point shooter).


And yes there is a huge difference between being a bad defender at PG or SG. The PG is being screened most of the time anyway so he doesn't have as much defensive responsibility. Additionally, you can hide one bad defender on a team's non-threat or weak ballhandler.... you need your PG to be elite offensively to compete in the NBA so typically he is going to be the weak defender as it makes sense to sacrifice defense for offense. However, if he's a weak defender and you pair him with a weak SG defender you end up with problems.

Harris's college defense isn't relevant in the pros. Westbrook was Pac 10 DPOY. And Harden was a SG until last year and was a near MVP with awful defense so your second point is still factually incorrect.

You're going to need more than platitudes and hot takes if you want to keep this going because your laughably wrong on just about all of it.

Oh, it's plenty relevant. Harris is an elite defender. You aren't someone worth responding to because you can't admit it when you're wrong.

Elite now. Wow.

Explains Denver's elite team defense. I'll call it, you're a troll here just like on every other board you've been on.

[HoopsMalone]

Harris's college defense isn't relevant in the pros. Westbrook was Pac 10 DPOY. And Harden was a SG until last year and was a near MVP with awful defense so your second point is still factually incorrect.

You're going to need more than platitudes and hot takes if you want to keep this going because your laughably wrong on just about all of it.

Oh, it's plenty relevant. Harris is an elite defender. You aren't someone worth responding to because you can't admit it when you're wrong.

Elite now. Wow.

Explains Denver's elite team defense.

Well elite is probably a slight exaggeration. He's not Oladipo or Covington or guys I'd truly consider ELITE. But he's one of the top SG for sure...

Denver's defense is bad because they are full of awful defenders like Murray, Mudiay, Plumlee, Chandler, etc and there good defensive players like Millsap and Jokic are hurt.

A freaking Shooting guard isn't going to be able to carry a team to an elite defensive ranking. That's what centers do. I don't think you watch a lot of basketball.

[bondom34]

Oh, it's plenty relevant. Harris is an elite defender. You aren't someone worth responding to because you can't admit it when you're wrong.

Elite now. Wow.

Explains Denver's elite team defense.

Well elite is probably a slight exaggeration. He's not Oladipo or Covington or guys I'd truly consider ELITE. But he's one of the top SG for sure...

Denver's defense is bad because they are full of awful defenders like Murray, Mudiay, Plumlee, Chandler, etc and there good defensive players like Millsap and Jokic are hurt.

A freaking Shooting guard isn't going to be able to carry a team to an elite defensive ranking. That's what centers do. I don't think you watch a lot of basketball.

No I do but you trying to bait me isn't working either. If he's this good they would be good defensively. He is a good defensive SG.

A SG isn't going to tank a team to a bad defense either. I don't think you're getting that at all. Murray may be worse but Harris isn't some top end defender overall. He's a good defender at his position and like you said a SG doesn't effect a defense that much. Like who....Booker. If Harris supposedly is this good and Booker this bad Denver should have a good defense and Phoenix a bad one.

Ill let you go on here. And please check the CJ thread and explain to others how he's not an impact player.

Good bye here. I think the poll speaks for itself.

[HoopsMalone]

Elite now. Wow.

Explains Denver's elite team defense.

Well elite is probably a slight exaggeration. He's not Oladipo or Covington or guys I'd truly consider ELITE. But he's one of the top SG for sure...

Denver's defense is bad because they are full of awful defenders like Murray, Mudiay, Plumlee, Chandler, etc and there good defensive players like Millsap and Jokic are hurt.

A freaking Shooting guard isn't going to be able to carry a team to an elite defensive ranking. That's what centers do. I don't think you watch a lot of basketball.

No I do but you trying to bait me isn't working either. If he's this good they would be good defensively. He is a good defensive SG.

A SG isn't going to tank a team to a bad defense either. I don't think you're getting that at all. Murray may be worse but Harris isn't some top end defender overall. He's a good defender at his position and like you said a SG doesn't effect a defense that much. Like who....Booker. If Harris supposedly is this good and Booker this bad Denver should have a good defense and Phoenix a bad one.

Ill let you go on here. And please check the CJ thread and explain to others how he's not an impact player.

Good bye here. I think the poll speaks for itself.

With Zeller out indefinitely we'll get a chance to see Frank at the 5. There is a train of thought that the 5 is his natural position. Obviously he doesn't defend or rebound like a natural 5, but he's also quite the mismatch on the other end with his range and ability to drive & dish. He played well last year at the 5 for a pretty long stretch.

I'm not saying he will definitely excel but I think we can expect at least some uptick in his numbers from 12/7 until Cody returns. He did sprain his ankle pretty bad the other night so he may be out a few games though.

[bondom34]

OK.

[Baller1234a]

He's not a point guard.

You've yet to substantiate your opinion and haven't provided anything other than repeating yourself. He's not even the worst defensive SG in the league, nor worst on his own team. He's not a PG either. I'm not basing it off raw scoring either, but literally nothing you've stated has been backed by anything other than you repeating it.

You just saying it more is only hurting you here.

I get it. You're a big Booker fan. I do not see him as a great prospect and I don't care to continue this conversation. I don't care what your opinion of my opinion is, I'm finished with this conversation because nothing is going to change your opinion on this guy and you aren't willing to have a honest conversation about how limiting his defense is at the wing position. He's going to need to become a PG to become an impact player in this league IMO.

Actually I'm not. But you simply parroting yourself doesn't prove a thing, it's like Kyrie saying the earth is flat over and over. Say it 1 million times and its still got no factual basis. Harden was an awful defender. McCollum is. Lillard. Kyrie. The list goes on and on. Gary Harris is bad, Olaipo was at one time bad. And yet, not one of these players is bad or not worth their contract.

You’re not woke as Kyrie as. Or else you would know the world is flat .