Pippen on First Take about Jordan vs Lebron

[Trophy Husband]

Even Lebron wanted to be like Mike, wearing 23 since high school, You can never be better than the person you tried to copy.

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[johnyb]

Lebron in Finals: 18 wins 27 losses
Jordan in Finals: 24 wins 11 losses

Just saying

Compare the point differential in Jordan’s finals opponents.

There’s a great graphic around I can’t find that illustrates it.

Basically LeBron has played historically a few of the best teams to ever play. The worst team he played was nearly the equal of the best team Jordan faced.

Edit: here you go

That graphic is baffling. People dont realise or dont want to see how good even the "lesser" of Lebrons Finals Opponents where.

The 2007 Spurs are seen as nothing special but where actually one of the best Spurs Teams ever. Duncan still close enough to his prime and Manu and Parker had entered theirs. Also one of the best Defenses ever.

The 2011 Mavs are a special case. People look at their Regular Season and think "meh" 57 Wins.. 4.2 Net Rating only Dirk that realls jumps to mind. Now let me tell you as a Mavs fan that season has burned itself into my Memory. If Butler did not go down for the Season and Dirk did not miss 9 Straight Games the Mavs could have totally been a 65+ Win Team with a Net Rating of 8 or better.
Also the Playoffs Mavs 2011 are just a different Team. They played some of the most intelligent Basketball on both ends of the court ever. And as great as Dirk was lets not forget that Jason Kidd beatifully orchestrated the Offense.. the Jet was a lethal Scorer and the Role Players played their roles to perfection. The 2011 Mavs are the example for the perfect fitting Team. Chandler was finally the Defensive Big next to Dirk. Marion was arguably the best wing defender in the NBA. Terry the best Bench Scorer. Kidd maybe the best combination of passing and defense. Then guys like Haywood,Stevenson,Peja,Barea etc all had their moments.

Oh and if you like it simple: Top 5 PF ever and top 5 PG ever ... Thats not a weak Team.

2012 Thunder are often dismissed as "Too young" but lets not forget they won 47/66 Games(58 Games any other year) And they beat a very good(50/66 Wins so 62 Wins any other season) Spurs Team before the Finals. At their Best KD, Westbrook and Harden where unstoppable.

It just shows overall its not as easy as looking at Finals Records... If MJ entered the NBA 5 years earlier along with Magic and Bird i highly doubt he would be 6/6 in the 80s.. Propably more like 2/4 or something like that(A few years the Celtics would have beaten even prime MJ before the Finals)

If you factor in context Lebrons resumee is not that lacking compared to MJ.. but i guess for many people it will always be as easy as "6/6 > 3/7"

The context isnt right. MJ's Bulls were not a superteam and in fact without MJ they were inferior to a lot of other teams, for example the 8 players deep Cavaliers, with Mark Price, Nance etc (5 starters all scoring 12-20ppg). All of MJ's supporting casts were inferior to his primary opponents which was not the case with Lebron who, with the exception of 3-4 years, has magnificent teamates. In 1997, a weary MJ won the championship with the least offensive help in history with Pippen barely averaging 20ppg and every other teamate being below 10. In contrast, Lebron had Kyrie average almost 30ppg in two consecutive Finals and several other monster offensive players at his side. And of course, the simple abstract comparison equating win with win and loss with loss is preposterous. When MJ won, he won convincingly, when he lost he barely lost and it took whole beast teams in their primes to take him down. Lebron is the exact other way around. Even with all the stupendus help he's been given, with East being putrid, he loses more than he wins, and he loses much more convingly than he wins.
Now, had MJ entered the league 6-7 years earlier and had been given half the firepower any of the Celtics-Lakers-Pistons had at the time, which is half as much as Lebron has for the past 8 years in proportion to his arversaries, he would have won every single championship he played for.
Dont you go take him for another body. He was in the bussiness of giving you bussiness and it was good. His hat on the field worth 40.000 soldiers.

[Jables]

If you want Lebron over Jordan in playoffs I don't know what to say to you. The Mavs loss was an all time great embarrassment for a legendary player, I have never been a Lebron hater but that was fascinating to watch. Kawhi/Iggy getting FMVP stopping Lebron was just cream.

For the greatest player of all time you just can't slip up, James shot at number 1 ended a long time ago, Kobe had a lot of fans pretending he was the greatest as well, when it's all said and done you're comparing a nearly flawless career to one that needed a pretty big injection from teaming up with the leagues best players to get it done. And I am rooting for Lebron to get it done over the Warriors this year.

[dhsilv2]

Jordan didn't go 3/7 in the finals.

Because he couldn't make it to them 7 times?

Yeah I mean the next time LeBron needs to go through a team as good as the Bad Boy Pistons, or Bird's Celtics will be the first time.

Has he even faced a team as good as Shaq's Magic or Zo's heat in the Eastern Conference since the Celtics aged out?

This ignores why the number of finals lebron's made is worthy of note which is much more the demand on the body to play that volume of playoff games.

It further however illustrates why discussing jordan's finals record is an exercise in stupidity.

[dhsilv2]

Jordan has the more dominant peak and prime. LeBron has more longevity. It's like comparing a marathon runner to Usain Bolt. Each is better than the other in certain areas.

Tell me more about how there's a longevity edge for a guy who's played the same number of games....

[dhsilv2]

Lebron in Finals: 18 wins 27 losses
Jordan in Finals: 24 wins 11 losses

Just saying

Compare the point differential in Jordan’s finals opponents.

There’s a great graphic around I can’t find that illustrates it.

Basically LeBron has played historically a few of the best teams to ever play. The worst team he played was nearly the equal of the best team Jordan faced.

Edit: here you go

I think you better understand the net efficiency rating before you post non sense like this. Do a bit of research on it and let me know if you think that all of MJ's finals opponents were worse than the 2015-2016 wizards who lost in the 2nd round. Next time you use a statistic, it's probably best to understand what you're citing

It's a meme...if it made a valid point, it wouldn't be a meme any longer!

[Roddy B for 3]

Compare the point differential in Jordan’s finals opponents.

There’s a great graphic around I can’t find that illustrates it.

Basically LeBron has played historically a few of the best teams to ever play. The worst team he played was nearly the equal of the best team Jordan faced.

Edit: here you go

That graphic is baffling. People dont realise or dont want to see how good even the "lesser" of Lebrons Finals Opponents where.

The 2007 Spurs are seen as nothing special but where actually one of the best Spurs Teams ever. Duncan still close enough to his prime and Manu and Parker had entered theirs. Also one of the best Defenses ever.

The 2011 Mavs are a special case. People look at their Regular Season and think "meh" 57 Wins.. 4.2 Net Rating only Dirk that realls jumps to mind. Now let me tell you as a Mavs fan that season has burned itself into my Memory. If Butler did not go down for the Season and Dirk did not miss 9 Straight Games the Mavs could have totally been a 65+ Win Team with a Net Rating of 8 or better.
Also the Playoffs Mavs 2011 are just a different Team. They played some of the most intelligent Basketball on both ends of the court ever. And as great as Dirk was lets not forget that Jason Kidd beatifully orchestrated the Offense.. the Jet was a lethal Scorer and the Role Players played their roles to perfection. The 2011 Mavs are the example for the perfect fitting Team. Chandler was finally the Defensive Big next to Dirk. Marion was arguably the best wing defender in the NBA. Terry the best Bench Scorer. Kidd maybe the best combination of passing and defense. Then guys like Haywood,Stevenson,Peja,Barea etc all had their moments.

Oh and if you like it simple: Top 5 PF ever and top 5 PG ever ... Thats not a weak Team.

2012 Thunder are often dismissed as "Too young" but lets not forget they won 47/66 Games(58 Games any other year) And they beat a very good(50/66 Wins so 62 Wins any other season) Spurs Team before the Finals. At their Best KD, Westbrook and Harden where unstoppable.

It just shows overall its not as easy as looking at Finals Records... If MJ entered the NBA 5 years earlier along with Magic and Bird i highly doubt he would be 6/6 in the 80s.. Propably more like 2/4 or something like that(A few years the Celtics would have beaten even prime MJ before the Finals)

If you factor in context Lebrons resumee is not that lacking compared to MJ.. but i guess for many people it will always be as easy as "6/6 > 3/7"

The context isnt right. MJ's Bulls were not a superteam and in fact without MJ they were inferior to a lot of other teams, for example the 8 players deep Cavaliers, with Mark Price, Nance etc (5 starters all scoring 12-20ppg). All of MJ's supporting casts were inferior to his primary opponents which was not the case with Lebron who, with the exception of 3-4 years, has magnificent teamates. In 1997, a weary MJ won the championship with the least offensive help in history with Pippen barely averaging 20ppg and every other teamate being below 10. In contrast, Lebron had Kyrie average almost 30ppg in two consecutive Finals and several other monster offensive players at his side. And of course, the simple abstract comparison equating win with win and loss with loss is preposterous. When MJ won, he won convincingly, when he lost he barely lost and it took whole beast teams in their primes to take him down. Lebron is the exact other way around. Even with all the stupendus help he's been given, with East being putrid, he loses more than he wins, and he loses much more convingly than he wins.
Now, had MJ entered the league 6-7 years earlier and had been given half the firepower any of the Celtics-Lakers-Pistons had at the time, which is half as much as Lebron has for the past 8 years in proportion to his arversaries, he would have won every single championship he played for.
Dont you go take him for another body. He was in the bussiness of giving you bussiness and it was good. His hat on the field worth 40.000 soldiers.

Points are up, therefore scoring deferincial is up

[ThePersianFreak]

This debate just makes me ill every time I see it

Even more so when people say Lebron is better

Lebron is better

[OGLife]

Lebron has had the easiest path to the finals. Even when he was on those Cavs teams as a young buck, the East wasn’t as strong. However, his finals record against real teams tells the whole story.

I won’t take anything away from Lebron. He is the greatest 3 the league has ever seen. However, he’s not the greatest, that belongs to MJ

[LeBird]

Even Scottie knows it but can't say it fully.

Half the reason ex players from the 90s can't admit their era was crappola is because it would detract from them. It's a conflict of interest frankly.

[durka]

The fact is, Lebron is still writing his story. If he retired today it's arguable, but if he goes another 3-5 years of playing at this level with his new 3 point shot, not sure how you could argue against him.

[Dino353]

I really don't know what to say about that, 3 Michael Jordan's against 3 Lebron James's in a game of 3 on 3 I believe anyone with common sense would agree 3 Lebron's is more lethal.
We have to wait to see what Lebron does before he retires, it's how he gets his remaining rings that will factor his place in Mt.Rushmore with MJ,Magic,Jabbar, and Wilt. From the looks of it Joel Embiid has the ability to put away Lebron and Curry's legacies, I've never seen anything like the man he is Shaquille O'Neal and Kevin Garnett in one.

Which 2 of the lebrons are forced to become spot up shooters

Lebron is a better 3 point shooter then Jordan, Lebron has not even taken more then 35 shots this whole season and is averaging 28 ppg. Jordan took 25-40 shots a night on the regular, Lebron would easily average 30 if he got the shots up, Lebron is also more efficient and is bigger and stronger. 3 MJ's are not beating 3 Lebron's my man, no way.

[pwrshft99]

Pippen waffled like he always does on the subject. He has praised LBJ before than backtracked.

Pippen is damn near broke, saying something controversial means he is going to get booked for more interviews.

[Hoopz Afrik]

Even Lebron wanted to be like Mike, wearing 23 since high school, You can never be better than the person you tried to copy.

Michael Jordan wanted to be David Thompson

[Lauri_Legend]

Underrated that Jordan and Kobe only won with a HOF coach in Phil Jackson but Lebron had Mike Brown, David Blatt, and now Ty Lue. Only real coach Lebron had was Spo but Spo didn't win a ring as a head coach either on his own.

[dtbrehm]

Jordan wasn't the one who bought superteam formations into the game. That was all Lebron. Therefore Jordan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lerbon

So you've never heard of Bird's Celtics, Showtime Lakers, Russell Celtics, Pierce/Garnett/Allen Celtics, Kobe/Shaq/Malone/Payton Lakers, Malone/Dr J Sixers, Jordan/Pippen/Rodman Bulls... LeBron bought super team formations to the game.

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And which of those plotted with their boys to form a super team?
There's a difference between having a good front office and a player being a bitch that has to run to her friends to form a super team because she can't get the job done on her own

This doesn't make sense to me. If you even admit that their scenarios aren't equal (having a good front office), then what is a player drafted into a poor front office supposed to do? Waste away their whole career? Through seven years, what cast did Lebron have that was even remotely near those championship squads mentioned?

[Johnny Kilroy]

This is not a Jordan/LeBron comparison for Scottie. It is a Jordan/Pippen comparison. It is a way for him to inject himself into the conversation.

The true measure of competing with Jordan goes beyond rings. You want to be in the conversation, retire in your prime. Twice.

Jordan had three retirements. LeBron will have one. Game over.

[msr999]

This is not a Jordan/LeBron comparison for Scottie. It is a Jordan/Pippen comparison. It is a way for him to inject himself into the conversation.

The true measure of competing with Jordan goes beyond rings. You want to be in the conversation, retire in your prime. Twice.

Jordan had three retirements. LeBron will have one. Game over.

I agree. No way Lebron can beat that. Game over indeed

[OdomFan]

The fact is, Lebron is still writing his story. If he retired today it's arguable, but if he goes another 3-5 years of playing at this level with his new 3 point shot, not sure how you could argue against him.

I can argue against him pretty easily. The man is a quitter who took the easy way out twice and it may happen again if they don't win it this time around too. Does this really sound like Greatness in the leader category to you? It damn sure doesn't to me. There's a very good chance that he may never win another championship again because other teams are constantly improving every year and at some point people are going to have to stop trying to shove those losses underneath the rug.

[OdomFan]

Underrated that Jordan and Kobe only won with a HOF coach in Phil Jackson but Lebron had Mike Brown, David Blatt, and now Ty Lue. Only real coach Lebron had was Spo but Spo didn't win a ring as a head coach either on his own.

Phil and MJ earned their hall of fame status together from start to finish. Stop acting like He was some hall of fame worthy block buster signing when he took over head coaching there. That was the case when the Lakers grabbed him but not even close when the Bulls did.