Pippen on First Take about Jordan vs Lebron

[bmurph128]

Mavs lost the 2006 finals to Wade and some dubious reffing, to put it lightly. That first finals loss lit a fire under Dirk, didn't seem to do the same to Bron.

I'm not sure I'd call that a fire ... the Mavs went out in the first round 3x after losing in the finals. They just finally hit on the right combination of teammates and depth to compliment Dirk combined with the right opponent to beat. Albeit Cuban loved to tinker, their core was more established than a team that was just thrown together in the previous off-season.

Yeah, most guys who lose one year aren't necessarily going to come back the next year and get revenge (KAwhi did, tho).

People talk about Lebron "dragging" that 07 team to the Finals, I've never seen a bigger talent disparity between two teams where the lesser team came out on top in all of the Finals I've seen. Dirk dragged old Kidd, Stevenson, JJ Barea and the Jet to a finals win over 3 first ballot hall of famers.

Kidd, Barea and Jet were really good in the finals though. Dirk was obviously the engine of that team but those guys played out of their minds.

[JonFromVA]

Mavs lost the 2006 finals to Wade and some dubious reffing, to put it lightly. That first finals loss lit a fire under Dirk, didn't seem to do the same to Bron.

I'm not sure I'd call that a fire ... the Mavs went out in the first round 3x after losing in the finals. They just finally hit on the right combination of teammates and depth to compliment Dirk combined with the right opponent to beat. Albeit Cuban loved to tinker, their core was more established than a team that was just thrown together in the previous off-season.

Yeah, most guys who lose one year aren't necessarily going to come back the next year and get revenge (KAwhi did, tho).

People talk about Lebron "dragging" that 07 team to the Finals, I've never seen a bigger talent disparity between two teams where the lesser team came out on top in all of the Finals I've seen. Dirk dragged old Kidd, Stevenson, JJ Barea and the Jet to a finals win over 3 first ballot hall of famers.

Fortunately for Dallas, Dirk was happy to get that one. Things might had eventually clicked for LeBron in Cleveland too if he'd stuck around, and they eventually stumbled on to the right combination of vets and coach to bring in to put around him - and the right opponent in the finals.

[Warren G]

I'm not sure I'd call that a fire ... the Mavs went out in the first round 3x after losing in the finals. They just finally hit on the right combination of teammates and depth to compliment Dirk combined with the right opponent to beat. Albeit Cuban loved to tinker, their core was more established than a team that was just thrown together in the previous off-season.

Yeah, most guys who lose one year aren't necessarily going to come back the next year and get revenge (KAwhi did, tho).

People talk about Lebron "dragging" that 07 team to the Finals, I've never seen a bigger talent disparity between two teams where the lesser team came out on top in all of the Finals I've seen. Dirk dragged old Kidd, Stevenson, JJ Barea and the Jet to a finals win over 3 first ballot hall of famers.

Kidd, Barea and Jet were really good in the finals though. Dirk was obviously the engine of that team but those guys played out of their minds.

I don't disagree at all, combine that with Dirk being a total monster and Lebron shrinking like a flower under a heat lamp and it's easy to see why they finished their season with three straight wins and hoisting up the trophy.

[johnyb]

For sure, although the 2015 finals team was decimated by injuries.

I think the biggest difference between the league that MJ played in and the one Bron plays in now is MJ didn't have a team nearly as good as the current Golden State team standing in his way during his prime. He road out the Celtic/Lakers/Pistons era and after that the Bulls had the best roster for every season he played from 1991 onward.

Ludicrous claim.

Payton 19-8-3
Kemp 19-11
Schrempf 17-5-4
Hawkings 16-5
Perkins 12-5

vs

Jordan 30-6-6
Pippen 19-6-6
Longley 9-5
Harper 7-3
Rodman 5-15

How is the Bulls a better roster?

Jordan made them the better roster.

Swap MJ for Payton, who has the best roster now do you think? Does Payton make up for Rodman's 5ppg?

Barkley had Kevin Johnson, Cedric Ceballos, Dan Majerle, Danny Ainge, Tom Chambers, Richard Dumars, all scoring in double figures.

That's a stacked team!

Vets like Chambers, Ainge, Mark West. Young athletic scorers like Dumars, Ceballos, KJ. 1st team defense in Dan Majerle. Cedric Ceballos scorer 21ppg in 2 seasons with the Lakers when he left them. KJ suffered injuries but had 20-10 at 30 years old in 1996-97, you know, when Kobe was coming off the bench for the Lakers! Tom Chambers was an absolute stud (with one of the best dunks ever) and only 3 seasons removed from scoring 27ppg. Richard Dumas got kicked from the league for drugs, but was a beast and you would know his name today if he hadn't. Supremely athletic with a killer midrange.

The Bulls roster was better because they had the greatest player of all time along with another HOFer. When Rodman joined they had 3.

That Sonics team features exactly one hall of famer. And he’s not even one of the 30 greatest players ever.

That Suns team featured exactly one hall of famer although KJ is borderline and may eventually get in.

Meanwhile the current Warriors have 2 surefire HOFers and 2 others who are trending that direction.

Listing player stats doesn’t really support your claim here either. The Suns scored a lot because they played at a high pace.

The SUNS were considered as the clear cut favorite at the time and to claim otherwise is the very definition of revisionist history. They were the deepest team in the league, they had the beast of beasts in his absolute prime, KJ and Thunder Dan in their primes and a second unit that would be starters on half the league. They were called the team of destiny for a reason. That of course must have angered God who sent his Angel of Death to punish them.
1991 Pistons, 1992 Blazers, Cleveland all through 1988-1992, 1996 Sonics, Utah 1998, Indiana 1998, all had superb teams with a deep roster, great HOF coaches, will, ambition, mentality and some of them were also insanely athletic. With the exception of Pistons, all others were deprived of their worthy place in history by Attila the Hun.

[Oscirus]

So you've never heard of Bird's Celtics, Showtime Lakers, Russell Celtics, Pierce/Garnett/Allen Celtics, Kobe/Shaq/Malone/Payton Lakers, Malone/Dr J Sixers, Jordan/Pippen/Rodman Bulls... LeBron bought super team formations to the game.

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And which of those plotted with their boys to form a super team?
There's a difference between having a good front office and a player being a bitch that has to run to her friends to form a super team because she can't get the job done on her own

I'm always amazed that people embrace this argument so much. There is plenty of reason to critique LeBron, but his going to another team is one of the most absurd. It's not his fault the front office couldn't build a decent roster for him, and it would have been a stupid move for him to stay put.

They had no assets to trade to get better. They weren't going to get any decent draft picks because he was a guarantee to get them to the second round and have a top record in the league. Their coach was middling. He was banging his head against the wall against a super team in the Celtics, and even a spectacular series like the one against the Magic wasn't enough to make up for the deficiencies in his team. The Cavaliers were on a dead end road and that wasn't going to change.

Bird had a multiple HOF cast around him almost as soon as he entered the league. Magic immediately was playing next to a GOAT contender and quickly got more HOF and all NBA level help. Jordan only played three years before he was given a spectacular player to play with. LeBron stayed with the franchise seven years, had nothing and wasn't going to get anything any time soon.

I don't understand the preoccupation with how the team comes together. Everyone on top ten all time lists played with other HOFers when they were making their championship runs. Their teams were stacked with elite talent. It's as if to become an all time great you have to play with an all time great, yet people hold it against LeBron that he found a way to do that. The blame should be on the Cavs front office for failing to do their jobs effectively.

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His going to another team isn't what I was addressing. His effectively "rigging the game" by plotting with two other top 20 players to team up is what was problematic. What if Johnson and Bird decided to stop splitting champions and decided to team up just because they could? Would that have diminished their legacy? **** yea it would've. And you can clearly see how this thinking had an effect on other players. So yes, Lebron is the face of the super teams over competitiveness era where instead of beating the evil empire, players now want to join it.

[The_Hater]

Ludicrous claim.

Payton 19-8-3
Kemp 19-11
Schrempf 17-5-4
Hawkings 16-5
Perkins 12-5

vs

Jordan 30-6-6
Pippen 19-6-6
Longley 9-5
Harper 7-3
Rodman 5-15

How is the Bulls a better roster?

Jordan made them the better roster.

Swap MJ for Payton, who has the best roster now do you think? Does Payton make up for Rodman's 5ppg?

Barkley had Kevin Johnson, Cedric Ceballos, Dan Majerle, Danny Ainge, Tom Chambers, Richard Dumars, all scoring in double figures.

That's a stacked team!

Vets like Chambers, Ainge, Mark West. Young athletic scorers like Dumars, Ceballos, KJ. 1st team defense in Dan Majerle. Cedric Ceballos scorer 21ppg in 2 seasons with the Lakers when he left them. KJ suffered injuries but had 20-10 at 30 years old in 1996-97, you know, when Kobe was coming off the bench for the Lakers! Tom Chambers was an absolute stud (with one of the best dunks ever) and only 3 seasons removed from scoring 27ppg. Richard Dumas got kicked from the league for drugs, but was a beast and you would know his name today if he hadn't. Supremely athletic with a killer midrange.

The Bulls roster was better because they had the greatest player of all time along with another HOFer. When Rodman joined they had 3.

That Sonics team features exactly one hall of famer. And he’s not even one of the 30 greatest players ever.

That Suns team featured exactly one hall of famer although KJ is borderline and may eventually get in.

Meanwhile the current Warriors have 2 surefire HOFers and 2 others who are trending that direction.

Listing player stats doesn’t really support your claim here either. The Suns scored a lot because they played at a high pace.

The SUNS were considered as the clear cut favorite at the time and to claim otherwise is the very definition of revisionist history. They were the deepest team in the league, they had the beast of beasts in his absolute prime, KJ and Thunder Dan in their primes and a second unit that would be starters on half the league. They were called the team of destiny for a reason. That of course must have angered God who sent his Angel of Death to punish them.
1991 Pistons, 1992 Blazers, Cleveland all through 1988-1992, 1996 Sonics, Utah 1998, Indiana 1998, all had superb teams with a deep roster, great HOF coaches, will, ambition, mentality and some of them were also insanely athletic. With the exception of Pistons, all others were deprived of their worthy place in history by Attila the Hun.

The Suns were not favoured. The only finals team favoured to beat the Bulls were the 1991 Lakers. The Bulls were favoured in the next 5.

[Splashin]

I guess Bill Russell is the goat if we're counting rings...

Jordan fans love to count rings until people throw names out like Bill Russell then they back off.

It's more than just rings; we're talking skill, competition, era. What good is leading your team to the NBA finals if you don't win?

Are we really gonna crown Lebron GOAT with 3 rings under his belt on 2 teams? Jordan had 2 three-peats in one decade, you can't tell me Lebron's achievement is better than that.

Being the better player and being the better winner is two different debates. There's a thin line, but there is one.

Jordan is the better winner. 6/6 in the finals. Impressive. Amazing scorer.

But like how Scottie pointed out, Lebron just does more on the court. He's more all around. He's a better all around player which defines being the better player. You can be an amazing all around player but not win as many rings as the next guy, as in Jordan.

Kobe has more rings than Lebron, and Kobe is not better. Lebron has surpassed Kobe in almost every category imaginable and he will soon pass him in scoring too. Lebron is a complete player.

Jordan didn't have to have more assists/rebounds to win over and over and over year after year after year. Bulls fans claiming LeBron is better than MJ makes me think they're either dumb or were too young in the 90s.

Jordan was the best defensive player in the league and offensive at the same time, how was he not well rounded?

[Ainosterhaspie]

Mavs lost the 2006 finals to Wade and some dubious reffing, to put it lightly. That first finals loss lit a fire under Dirk, didn't seem to do the same to Bron.

I'm not sure I'd call that a fire ... the Mavs went out in the first round 3x after losing in the finals. They just finally hit on the right combination of teammates and depth to compliment Dirk combined with the right opponent to beat. Albeit Cuban loved to tinker, their core was more established than a team that was just thrown together in the previous off-season.

Yeah, most guys who lose one year aren't necessarily going to come back the next year and get revenge (KAwhi did, tho).

People talk about Lebron "dragging" that 07 team to the Finals, I've never seen a bigger talent disparity between two teams where the lesser team came out on top in all of the Finals I've seen. Dirk dragged old Kidd, Stevenson, JJ Barea and the Jet to a finals win over 3 first ballot hall of famers.

Bosh is a question mark for HOF. First ballot isn't even remotely assured.

Mavs easily had superior depth and it wasn't remotely close. Rookie Mario Chalmers and Joel Anthony, dude with the worst hands in the history of the league, were key players for the Heat.

Heat should have won the series, but outside the big three, Miami was a joke with nothing but fringe bench players. They were basically playing three on five most of the time especially on offense. They could just about completely ignore Joel Anthony and Mario Chalmers wasn't much of a threat either. That let the rest of the team with some very good defensive players (Chandler and Marion for example) overload on the only three competent offensive players the Heat had.

That Dallas team is so underrated. People just gloss over them destroying the two time defending champs and the ascendant multiple future MVPs Thunder so they can bash on LeBron. He deserves the bashing. Just stop exaggerating it.

*edited Warriors to Thunder.

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[Warren G]

Chris Walder, theScore 6/7/17

"Do I look tired?," James said Wednesday after shootaround to a reporter who asked if guarding Durant takes its toll, especially in the second half of games. "I feel great. I'm averaging a triple-double in the Finals. I'm pretty good, I would think."

this quote summarily explains why this guy will never be as good as Jordan

[Splashin]

I think Westbrook proved last year how much triple doubles are worth now when it comes to winning/greatness. Not much.

[Ainosterhaspie]

And which of those plotted with their boys to form a super team?
There's a difference between having a good front office and a player being a bitch that has to run to her friends to form a super team because she can't get the job done on her own

I'm always amazed that people embrace this argument so much. There is plenty of reason to critique LeBron, but his going to another team is one of the most absurd. It's not his fault the front office couldn't build a decent roster for him, and it would have been a stupid move for him to stay put.

They had no assets to trade to get better. They weren't going to get any decent draft picks because he was a guarantee to get them to the second round and have a top record in the league. Their coach was middling. He was banging his head against the wall against a super team in the Celtics, and even a spectacular series like the one against the Magic wasn't enough to make up for the deficiencies in his team. The Cavaliers were on a dead end road and that wasn't going to change.

Bird had a multiple HOF cast around him almost as soon as he entered the league. Magic immediately was playing next to a GOAT contender and quickly got more HOF and all NBA level help. Jordan only played three years before he was given a spectacular player to play with. LeBron stayed with the franchise seven years, had nothing and wasn't going to get anything any time soon.

I don't understand the preoccupation with how the team comes together. Everyone on top ten all time lists played with other HOFers when they were making their championship runs. Their teams were stacked with elite talent. It's as if to become an all time great you have to play with an all time great, yet people hold it against LeBron that he found a way to do that. The blame should be on the Cavs front office for failing to do their jobs effectively.

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His going to another team isn't what I was addressing. His effectively "rigging the game" by plotting with two other top 20 players to team up is what was problematic. What if Johnson and Bird decided to stop splitting champions and decided to team up just because they could? Would that have diminished their legacy? **** yea it would've. And you can clearly see how this thinking had an effect on other players. So yes, Lebron is the face of the super teams over competitiveness era where instead of beating the evil empire, players now want to join it.

Joining Wade and Bosh isn't even remotely comparable to Magic joining Bird. He'd never faced them in the playoffs, and except for one time four years earlier, Wade wasn't having any playoff success to speak of. Boston had a big three already. So did the Thunder, though people didn't really realize it at the time. The Lakers looked like a super team then too.

He didn't "rig the game". He was a free agent joining other free agents to have a squad to battle other monster teams the league had at the time. He didn't join his nemesis Celtics. He looked for a way to beat them. He didn't join the two things defending champs, he looked for a way to beat them. The Heat without LeBron were no threat to the league. At best they would have been the fourth best team in the East.

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[E-Balla]

The argument will end the same every time. MJ fans will point to his 6 rings and unblemished Finals record, and cite things like "closing" ability. LBJ fans will point to his numbers, longevity, overall dominance on the court. Rinse and repeat.

Both are great, both very different players in terms of style, both right up there in the all time top 5-10 players no matter your personal bias.

Jordan has the numbers too

Its hilarious Lebron fans always act like Jordan isnt better when it comes to pure numbers too. Jordan averaged 32/6/5 his 11 years in Chicago with a 29 PER and he averaged 34/6/6 in the playoffs with a 29 PER with his single lowest postseason PER being a 24.7 (which actually still lead the league).

There's no argument you can make for Lebron over MJ by the numbers or by the accolades. Only argument can be if you value longevity and even then you'll have to really value it which would probably mean Lebron isn't over Kareem in your book.

[Johnny Kilroy]

The Bulls roster was better because they had the greatest player of all time along with another HOFer. When Rodman joined they had 3.

That Sonics team features exactly one hall of famer. And he’s not even one of the 30 greatest players ever.

That Suns team featured exactly one hall of famer although KJ is borderline and may eventually get in.

Meanwhile the current Warriors have 2 surefire HOFers and 2 others who are trending that direction.

Listing player stats doesn’t really support your claim here either. The Suns scored a lot because they played at a high pace.

The SUNS were considered as the clear cut favorite at the time and to claim otherwise is the very definition of revisionist history. They were the deepest team in the league, they had the beast of beasts in his absolute prime, KJ and Thunder Dan in their primes and a second unit that would be starters on half the league. They were called the team of destiny for a reason. That of course must have angered God who sent his Angel of Death to punish them.
1991 Pistons, 1992 Blazers, Cleveland all through 1988-1992, 1996 Sonics, Utah 1998, Indiana 1998, all had superb teams with a deep roster, great HOF coaches, will, ambition, mentality and some of them were also insanely athletic. With the exception of Pistons, all others were deprived of their worthy place in history by Attila the Hun.

The Suns were not favoured. The only finals team favoured to beat the Bulls were the 1991 Lakers. The Bulls were favoured in the next 5.

"The Suns are slight favorites going into the Finals, even with Jordan at the top of his game."

"I can deal with losing. I just don't want to lose.'' Scottie Pippen added: ''Everyone is expecting the Jazz to walk away with this series. We're underdogs, no question.''

https://www.si.com/vault/2013/06/10/106332820/the-best-finals-ever

https://mobile.nytimes.com/1998/06/03/sports/the-nba-finals-are-the-bulls-true-underdogs-or-just-playing-possum.html

That's three finals the opponent was favored.

[Danny1616]

Still would give the edge to Jordan.

In terms of overall statistics they are pretty damn and close and Jordan's prime years were actually more impressive then Lebron.

Jordan averaged 33, 8, 8 and 3 steals on 54% in 1989, 34, 7 and 6 and 3 steals on 53% shooting in 1990, 32, 6, 6 and 3 steals on 54% shooting in 1991.

Those are mind boggling numbers...not to mention Jordan averaged 37, 5, 5 and 35, 5, 5 with 3 steals a year on over 50% shooting in the mid 80s.

So I really don't get the statistics argument, Jordan put up some crazy efficient numbers. He also won more championships and the argument he went against worse competition doesn't really make sense either. Okay the Lakers in 1991 were on the decline, the 1992 Blazers didn't much star power either, but the 1993 Suns were great with Barkley, KJ, Majerle, Sonics with GP and Kemp were a great team, and the Jazz teams with Stockton and Malone featured arguably a top 5 point gaurd and top 5 power forward in NBA history on the same team.

Lebron is great, but he lost to an inferior Mavs team in the NBA finals and beat a very young and inexperienced Thunder team. I will give him that his 2015 performance was admirable with all the injuries and even last year he played great and went against an invincible team.

Lastly, if you discount his 2002 and 2003 seasons (way after his prime), Jordan played 14 years in the league. Lebron is in his 15th year in the league. If you compared what Jordan and Lebron did after 14 seasons Jordan easily has the edge.

Lebron does have time to pass Jordan, and obviously his longevity is a big factor. If he wins another championship you could make a very strong argument, especially with 8 or 9 finals appearances.

[E-Balla]

Ludicrous claim.

Payton 19-8-3
Kemp 19-11
Schrempf 17-5-4
Hawkings 16-5
Perkins 12-5

vs

Jordan 30-6-6
Pippen 19-6-6
Longley 9-5
Harper 7-3
Rodman 5-15

How is the Bulls a better roster?

Jordan made them the better roster.

Swap MJ for Payton, who has the best roster now do you think? Does Payton make up for Rodman's 5ppg?

Barkley had Kevin Johnson, Cedric Ceballos, Dan Majerle, Danny Ainge, Tom Chambers, Richard Dumars, all scoring in double figures.

That's a stacked team!

Vets like Chambers, Ainge, Mark West. Young athletic scorers like Dumars, Ceballos, KJ. 1st team defense in Dan Majerle. Cedric Ceballos scorer 21ppg in 2 seasons with the Lakers when he left them. KJ suffered injuries but had 20-10 at 30 years old in 1996-97, you know, when Kobe was coming off the bench for the Lakers! Tom Chambers was an absolute stud (with one of the best dunks ever) and only 3 seasons removed from scoring 27ppg. Richard Dumas got kicked from the league for drugs, but was a beast and you would know his name today if he hadn't. Supremely athletic with a killer midrange.

The Bulls roster was better because they had the greatest player of all time along with another HOFer. When Rodman joined they had 3.

That Sonics team features exactly one hall of famer. And he’s not even one of the 30 greatest players ever.

That Suns team featured exactly one hall of famer although KJ is borderline and may eventually get in.

Meanwhile the current Warriors have 2 surefire HOFers and 2 others who are trending that direction.

Listing player stats doesn’t really support your claim here either. The Suns scored a lot because they played at a high pace.

The SUNS were considered as the clear cut favorite at the time and to claim otherwise is the very definition of revisionist history. They were the deepest team in the league, they had the beast of beasts in his absolute prime, KJ and Thunder Dan in their primes and a second unit that would be starters on half the league. They were called the team of destiny for a reason. That of course must have angered God who sent his Angel of Death to punish them.
1991 Pistons, 1992 Blazers, Cleveland all through 1988-1992, 1996 Sonics, Utah 1998, Indiana 1998, all had superb teams with a deep roster, great HOF coaches, will, ambition, mentality and some of them were also insanely athletic. With the exception of Pistons, all others were deprived of their worthy place in history by Attila the Hun.

Its funny all those teams aren't seen as great now because they lost to Jordan which makes these guys underestimate his competition. People really think Lebron had harder competition in the Finals? Maybe in you can make the argument for 2007, 2014, 2016, and 2017 (of which he only won 1 of those series) but here's the teams Jordan faced in the Finals:

The Lakers won 58 games and had a top 5 player ever that was MVP the year prior

The Blazers won 57 games, had the MVP runner up and won 59 games while making the Finals in 90 and 63 games while losing in the Conference finals in 91.

The Suns won 62 games despite having the best PG in the league injured half the season, and were a mid 50 win team the year prior that then went and added Charles Barkley who won MVP that year.

The Sonics won 64 games and won between 55-63 games each of the 3 seasons leading up to this one and went to a WCF recently. The had the DPOY on the team too.

The Jazz won 64 games and made the WCF in 92, 94, and 96. They also had the league MVP.

The Jazz in 98 62 games, were coming off a Finals appearance, and Scottie was coming off some serious injuries and looking shaky.

All of these teams are commonly mentioned when people bring up the best teams without a ring.

[Johnny Kilroy]

Good post E-Balla.

I do feel bad for the jazz. In a later era they might have been a dynasty.

[Warren G]

Still would give the edge to Jordan.

In terms of overall statistics they are pretty damn and close and Jordan's prime years were actually more impressive then Lebron.

Jordan averaged 33, 8, 8 and 3 steals on 54% in 1989, 34, 7 and 6 and 3 steals on 53% shooting in 1990, 32, 6, 6 and 3 steals on 54% shooting in 1991.

Those are mind boggling numbers...not to mention Jordan averaged 37, 5, 5 and 35, 5, 5 with 3 steals a year on over 50% shooting in the mid 80s.

So I really don't get the statistics argument, Jordan put up some crazy efficient numbers. He also won more championships and the argument he went against worse competition doesn't really make sense either. Okay the Lakers in 1991 were on the decline, the 1992 Blazers didn't much star power either, but the 1993 Suns were great with Barkley, KJ, Majerle, Sonics with GP and Kemp were a great team, and the Jazz teams with Stockton and Malone featured arguably a top 5 point gaurd and top 5 power forward in NBA history on the same team.

Lebron is great, but he lost to an inferior Mavs team in the NBA finals and beat a very young and inexperienced Thunder team. I will give him that his 2015 performance was admirable with all the injuries and even last year he played great and went against an invincible team.

I'll go one further, I think Malone is the best PF of all time and Stockton is the best pure PG of all time, they ran the most devastating pick and roll the league has ever seen

[Tribe]

The argument will end the same every time. MJ fans will point to his 6 rings and unblemished Finals record, and cite things like "closing" ability. LBJ fans will point to his numbers, longevity, overall dominance on the court. Rinse and repeat.

Both are great, both very different players in terms of style, both right up there in the all time top 5-10 players no matter your personal bias.

Jordan has the numbers too

Its hilarious Lebron fans always act like Jordan isnt better when it comes to pure numbers too. Jordan averaged 32/6/5 his 11 years in Chicago with a 29 PER and he averaged 34/6/6 in the playoffs with a 29 PER with his single lowest postseason PER being a 24.7 (which actually still lead the league).

There's no argument you can make for Lebron over MJ by the numbers or by the accolades. Only argument can be if you value longevity and even then you'll have to really value it which would probably mean Lebron isn't over Kareem in your book.

jordan dropped 28412 points in 11 full non injured non washed seasons

jfc

[10DayContract]

The argument will end the same every time. MJ fans will point to his 6 rings and unblemished Finals record, and cite things like "closing" ability. LBJ fans will point to his numbers, longevity, overall dominance on the court. Rinse and repeat.

Both are great, both very different players in terms of style, both right up there in the all time top 5-10 players no matter your personal bias.

Jordan has the numbers too

Its hilarious Lebron fans always act like Jordan isnt better when it comes to pure numbers too. Jordan averaged 32/6/5 his 11 years in Chicago with a 29 PER and he averaged 34/6/6 in the playoffs with a 29 PER with his single lowest postseason PER being a 24.7 (which actually still lead the league).

There's no argument you can make for Lebron over MJ by the numbers or by the accolades. Only argument can be if you value longevity and even then you'll have to really value it which would probably mean Lebron isn't over Kareem in your book.

That's what I've been saying for years. If he's better than Jordan because of longevity, then that means you think Kareem is The GOAT.

[Joker]

One underwhelming thing about Jordan's era vs. Lebron's was the defenders Jordan got on him. The Suns put DAN MAJERLE on him. IN THE FINALS.

Watch on YouTube

Meanwhile, Lebron gets to face Kawhi or Draymond Green in the finals every year.

edit: OMG, Dan Majerle made all-defense in 91 and 93. I'm stunned. Him defending Jordan looks so laughable.